Forum: Author Hangout

think a universe is a setting. Like Naked in school. (Maybe Star Trek)

A series is the same main character. Like Jack Reacher or James Bond. (But each story is separate.) (Actually, Star Trek is probably a series and not a universe.

Universe and series are not mutually exclusive. Start Trek is several series within a common universe.

So, what moniker applies to A Well-Lived Life? or Bec? or Summer Camp? or Cammie Sue? Are they all the same or are there differences?

Serial – another term for a sequel.

Not quit. A sequel is ONE story which comes after another in time and has a definite continuation.

A serial is a story which consists of chapters posted (or published) over a period of time. Many of what we consider "novels" were originally published as serials. David Copperfield, for one.

Following this logic, most Universes are Non-Sequential,

So would a Universe containing unrelated stories be a Non Sequitur..??

there are different kinds of Series:
1) Numbered Series - where each book follows the previous ones in a distinct chronological basis [...].
2) Non-sequential Series - A series featuring the same characters, but which happen in a more-or-less random sequence [...]. In other words, you can read them in any order, and it won't matter.

There is a series by Ka Hmnd which starts with one story (an ex-covert ops operator has to deal with assassins and alerts the other ex-members of his unit). Next are six parallel sequels (telling the story of each team member), they can be read in any order. Finally the last story (where they unite and deal with the thread).
Ka Hmnd "Retired but alive - Keys" (first story)
Ka Hmnd "Retired but alive - Brazilia"
Ka Hmnd "Retired but alive - Cattleman"
Ka Hmnd "Retired but alive - Sahara"
Ka Hmnd "Retired but alive - Sidney"
Ka Hmnd "Retired but alive - Timberland"
Ka Hmnd "Retired but alive - Winterland"
Ka Hmnd "Retired but alive - Kingdom" (concluding story)

HM.

"Sequel" doesn't belong in this list

The original question, which contained "Sequel," specified "more than one story that uses the same or many of the same characters."
You are insisting that a "sequel" cannot be a story that uses the same or many of the same characters?

The original question, which contained "Sequel," specified "more than one story that uses the same or many of the same characters."

You are insisting that a "sequel" cannot be a story that uses the same or many of the same characters?

No. I'm claiming that a sequel is not "More than o ne story."

No. I'm claiming that a sequel is not "More than o ne story."

But original + sequel is more than one story. You can't have a sequel without having an original, so sequel means at least two stories.

But original + sequel is more than one story. You can't have a sequel without having an original, so sequel means at least two stories.

Ahhh, no.
A sequel is always just one story, but it's a follow-up of another story.
If I buy and read a sequel I read only one story and it still is a sequel even if I never read the preceding story. The term sequel implies there is somewhere another story but not necessarily already published.
BTW, this happens quite often with translations, when the foreign language publisher starts with the bestselling third book in a series and then maybe they begin translating and publishing the previous books.
The third book is still the sequel to the second book even if the translation of the second book is not available to the foreign language reader.

HM.

A sequel is always just one story, but it's a follow-up of another story

If that's true, what distinguishes a sequel from a chapter?

what distinguishes a sequel from a chapter?

There is no good answer.
With dead tree books it's quite simple:
one book - Chapters;
more than one book - all not in the first book - sequel.
I once read a thick novel, some years later the author wrote a sequel – a three chapter novelette.

Especially with serialized stories as here on SOL the author decides. He decides after how many chapters to end the book. The next chapter then starts the sequel. Other authors don't devide their story into multible books, they simple continue the story. No publisher would print a 600+ chapter novel as one book.

The size? Not really. Chapters are short but so are short stories. Look at Randall Garrett's Lord Darcy stories. All were originally published separately.
The editors of Baen's collection Lord Darcy write:

"The Napoli Express" is a direct sequel to "The Sixteen Keys"

the publishing dates are May 1976 and April 1979. The stories in this collection are arranged like chapters in a novel.

To answer your question: a sequel is a separate entity.

HM.

A sequel is a complete story.

If a sequel is a "complete" story, then, logically, there cannot be a sequel to a sequel, because the story is already "complete."

I never read the preceding story.

That matters not one whit, you could could do the same thing with a series of 10 books starting from book 5.

you could could do the same thing with a series of 10 books starting from book 5

And book 5 is the sequel to book 4. The sequel is not 2 books and the use of the term sequel is not restricted to book 2 of a two book series.

HM.

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I remember that Hornblower joke from an "article" intended as humor in Fantasy and Science Fiction Magazine. Long ago and far away.

"Through time and space with Ferdinand Feghoot."

A series of stories -- to get back to the thread -- running once a month by "Grendel Briarton." Each short-short story ended in a pun or a Spoonerism.

George RR Martin's 'A Song of Ice and Fire' is a series, but the main character in one book is sometimes entirely absent from the next, only to reappear in later books.

Or they get killed and don't return at all.

'A Song of Ice and Fire' is one ongoing story broken into five books (so far, and I doubt there will ever be a sixth). So it's a serial rather than a series but who cares about such semantic subtleties?

So it's a serial rather than a series but who cares about such semantic subtleties?

What IS the difference between a series and a serial?

btw, I believe those are TV terms.

No. In this context serial is simply short for serialized novel.

I agree with your definition for serial but think the categorization for a series is much wider. It doesn't need the appearance of any particular character; a general theme or simply just the scenery will do as well.

Isn't that a universe?

In a universe, it doesn't even need a particular author. Universe refers to the large number of possible stories, too vast to be contained in a series. I think it's more advertisement than specification.

A series contains the same character(s) in each book. You can read them out of sequence.

Yes, technically you can and each book has it's own distinct story, but with a numbered series, within the series universe, there is a distinct chronological order to the stories.

What IS the difference between a series and a serial?

As I understand it, serials come out in periodic episodes which are not necessarily complete stories in their own right.

This used to be done by newspapers publishing text fiction in serial form.

However, outside of never ending on-line "books" published on sites like SOL, I am not aware of this form being used in modern times in straight text fiction. Although comic books are generally serials.

"If a part of the tale requires a previous part, then it shouldn't be a series; it should be a serial and posted as multiple chapters."
That quote is lifted from the SOL "what's the difference between a series and a serial" cited above by John Demille.
It seems to me, based on this thread, that the authors on this site do not agree about the distinctions among the various terms. I thought I understood the SOL until it suggested a serial "should be posted as multiple chapters," which sounds like a serial is no different from a simple no-serial, no-sequel, no-universe book that contains chapters.
Would somebody like to take another stab at definitions and distinctions on which there is a consensus?

It seems to me, based on this thread, that the authors on this site do not agree about the distinctions among the various terms.

Exactly when have the authors (those who post in this forum) ever agreed upon anything..??

Would somebody like to take another stab at definitions and distinctions on which there is a consensus?

I'll put it this way.

A series is a set of "books" with the following characteristics:

Follows a common set of characters, or an organization.

Each being a complete story in it's own right.

The series has a chronology that spans the entire set of stories, but the individual books do not have to be published in the order of the internal chronology.

A Serial is a story broken into segments which are published on a periodical basis or set of loosely related, relatively short stories published on a periodical basis like a newspaper or magazine.

Something can be both a series and a Serial. Some TV series for example have a story line that runs the entire season, so that one season would be a "book" in as series comprised of the set of seasons and the individual episodes would be subsets of one story published periodically.

In the Summer Camp group of stories, there are four "books" published on SOL, written by Nick Scipio. All four of them follow the same main character through different times in the MC's life, starting, IIRC, about 12 or 13 years old. In book 4, the MC is in college.
Ignoring all the other stories written by other people and that are labeled as being in the Summer Camp "Universe," are those stories a series or a serial or both or something else? They were released one chapter at a time starting in 2003, and sometimes the time between one chapter and the next was more than a year.
This was not on television, so there was no "season." Relative to the group of stories taken as a whole, the stories were published on a periodic basis - but not in a newspaper or magazine. That seems to me to fit Dominion Son's description of a serial.
The group of stories does have a chronology that spans the entire set of stories. they were published on SOL in the order of the internal chronology. That seems to me to fit Dominion Son's definition of a series.
Since there are other authors who write related stories - usually NOT following the main character - that seems to me to fit earlier descriptions of a universe.
If that application of terms is correct, how would they apply to, say, Revenge of the Nerd, or Stupid Boy, or A Well-Lived Life or A Fresh Start? (I have not checked to see what terminology the author used in any of those.)
And one last query - does it matter? And if it does not, then why do people here keep "correcting" other people they say are misusing the terms?

are those stories a series or a serial or both or something else?

I'd say nearly but not quite both (I'll explain that in a bit), at least for those who read them while they were being published.

but not in a newspaper or magazine.

I didn't say in a newspaper or magazine. I said like a newspaper or magazine, and by that, I meant at regular defined intervals.

Since there are other authors who write related stories - usually NOT following the main character - that seems to me to fit earlier descriptions of a universe.

I would describe a universe as a number of stories related by setting (world building) and possibly nothing more than setting. The number of authors is irrelevant

at regular defined intervals.

So, if they are published from time to time, not on a regular schedule, they are NOT a serial?

I would consider it an edge case, it depends on how irregular the posting schedule is.

I thought I understood the SOL until it suggested a serial "should be posted as multiple chapters," which sounds like a serial is no different from a simple no-serial, no-sequel, no-universe book that contains chapters.

A serial is a novel published in consecutive parts – chapter by chapter or in larger parts of more than one chapter at a time, e.g. published in a newspaper or magazine. So most stories here on SOL start as serials.
There is one difference between printed serials and online serials here on SOL. Once concluded, a printed serial stays a serial scattered over different issues of the magazine until republished as a book. Here on SOL the parts of the serial are automatically consolidated into the book.

HM.

ETA

What does ETA mean?

Estimated time of arrival
and...

;-)

What does ETA mean?

Edited To Add

What does ETA stand for?

Gotta love Elvis Tribute Artist and Extra Terrestrial Alien.