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What is censorship?

PotomacBob

In another thread, someone wrote, if I understood the argument (and I may have misunderstood), that SOL deciding to disallow new stories involving sex with those under age 14 amounts to censorship.
Is it really?
If the Walt Disney COmpany were to own, say, a film called Song of the South, that they had been releasing to theaters every eight years, and then some people objected, and Disney decided not to release it again, is Disney attempting to censor its own product?
Doesn't censorship imply that it's an act imposed by someone else? Does it have to be the government that does the imposing?
If Facebook says I can't post something that is made up entirely of little green squiggly lines - is that censorship?

Replies:   REP
REP

@PotomacBob

that SOL deciding to disallow new stories involving sex with those under age 14 amounts to censorship.


No SOL did not make that decision.

The Canadian Government passed a law that said it was illegal. You could say they are guilty of censorship, but not SOL.

All Lazeez did was comply with the law so the government would not shut SOL down.

Ernest Bywater

OK, Bob, you're bunching two different things together here, so I'll reply to them as separate items.

1. Censorship is where someone (usually a government or authority unit) says what you can and can't write or say. Most censorship is externally applied, although there is a thing called self-censorship.

Related to this is restrictions to comply with laws, which is where SoL is at. They have a self-censorship to comply with Canadian law in that they do not allow any non-compliant material to be posted on their site because they don't have a Safe Harbor coverage.

2. Safe Harbor Legislation (SHL) is what protects companies like Facebook, ISPs, and YouTube etc. from being held accountable for what people post through their accounts. However, this should be under serious review in the near future due to how Facebook and YouTube are censoring posted material that differs with the political views of those in charge of the organizations.

SHL is predicated on the organization having absolutely no control on the content being posted or passing through their operation. By applying censorship beyond what is needed to comply with legislation Facebook and YouTube are taking on the role of content management and stepping outside of the SHL protections. The US government hasn't yet called them on it, but they may well do so soon, as it came very close in some recent joint house committee meetings where the tech company managements appeared.

..................

Yes, Facebook is applying censorship top some of their clients, and they are doing so in violation of the laws they operate under.

Ross at Play

What REP said is correct.

I would add that the new Canadian law could not ban stories already on the site. Those stories are now only available to premium members. I don't know what others would call that decision, but I call it a decision the site manager is entitled to make.

Replies:   tendertouch
tendertouch

@Ross at Play

Those stories are now only available to premium members.


I don't think that's the case. Older stories with content that can not be posted new are still available to people who are not premium members.

Replies:   Ross at Play
Ross at Play

@tendertouch

Older stories with content that can not be posted new are still available to people who are not premium members.

Thanks. A lot of those stories are now only for premium members. I guess that's just from the routine archiving process of the site, and for authors who've abandoned SOL because it cannot accept their kinds of stories anymore.

In that case there's nothing the site does that could conceivably be called 'censorship', IMHO.

Replies:   tendertouch
Keet

You can't call the age restrictions on SOL censorship. There's two points working here. One is compliance with the law, something you just can't ignore. The second point is that EVERY business caters to a certain target audience since it's impossible to do for everyone. Every site, blog, or forum has it's own rules and guidelines to create an environment that services that specific chosen target audience. SOL is no different. If someone wants something that does not fit withing the rules and guidelines of SOL I'm sure there is a site or forum somewhere else that does have rules and guidelines that fit their needs. It's not even self-censorship. Forbidding nasty things like bestiality or scat or something alike would be self-censorship and that's not true on SOL.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
tendertouch

@Ross at Play

I guess that's just from the routine archiving process of the site, and for authors who've abandoned SOL because it cannot accept their kinds of stories anymore.


The archiving thing is a new routine but you may be right about why some authors have stopped visiting the site, leaving their stories up for archiving. OTOH I saw that Vivian Darkbloom has a new story up, after nothing for 10 years or and an entire library of stories that definitely could not be posted now.

Goldfisherman
Updated:

Nearly every site that posts anything from anyone is subject to censorship of one sort or another.

For instance, a lot of stories out of South America have disappeared in the last 10 years because of objections by the current and the last Pope by decrees from the Vatican.

In case anyone forgets, the current Pope is from Brazil, and the national Museum has burned to the ground this last week because it contained many thousands of pictures, paintings and carvings of many of the erotic customs predominant in Brazil until the mid 50's.

Some stories relating to these subjects are available on other sites but the videos or films are not. Some of these are still being practiced in North America and Central America but kept under cover by the media.

tendertouch

@Goldfisherman

In case anyone forgets, the current Pope is from Brazil,


I thought he was from Argentina? At least that's where he was born.

StarFleet Carl

@Goldfisherman

For instance, a lot of stories out of South America have disappeared in the last 10 years because of objections by the current and the last Pope by decrees from the Vatican.

In case anyone forgets, the current Pope is from Brazil, and the national Museum has burned to the ground this last week because it contained many thousands of pictures, paintings and carvings of many of the erotic customs predominant in Brazil until the mid 50's.


Well, that raises a disturbing issue regarding things, in light of the recent issues with the Catholic Church, pedophilia, and conspiracies to cover it up in their hierarchy. Since I'm not Catholic, I really don't care who the leader is of the world's largest cult.

Remus2

@Goldfisherman

For instance, a lot of stories out of South America have disappeared in the last 10 years because of objections by the current and the last Pope by decrees from the Vatican.

In case anyone forgets, the current Pope is from Brazil, and the national Museum has burned to the ground this last week because it contained many thousands of pictures, paintings and carvings of many of the erotic customs predominant in Brazil until the mid 50's.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2018/09/news-pictures-museu-nacional-fire-aftermath-natural-history/

Your facts lack a basis in reality.

1. The pope is from Argentina.
2. This statement is 100% a lie.

Museum has burned to the ground this last week because it contained many thousands of pictures, paintings and carvings of many of the erotic customs predominant in Brazil until the mid 50's.


From the NG article;

Scholars have sharply criticized the Brazilian government for the tragedy, which they say was preventable. Years of budget cuts and delayed renovations left the Museu Nacional with peeling walls and exposed electrical wiring. When firefighters arrived on the scene, the area's two fire hydrants were reportedly empty, forcing rescue crews to draw water from water trucks or a nearby lake.


Content of the museum didn't have a damn thing to do with why it burned. However, the corrupt left wing socialist government could be easily blamed. For that matter, they already are for the most part.

Why come on here and overtly lie, not to mention the innuendo that the pope had something to do with it??

Replies:   Ross at Play
Ross at Play
Updated:

@Remus2

Why come on here and overtly lie [about the Pope] ??

It's another form of religious censorship. :-)

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2
Updated:

@Ross at Play


It's another form of religious censorship. :-)


The misdirection regarding the origins of the pope could be explained by a simple mistake. Stating the pope was responsible for the fire due to the museums content, not so much. I'm no fan of the vatican or the pope, but that was simply ridiculous.

I would be very surprised if fish has ever been in Brazil to begin with, much less Museu Nacional. I have been there, and in that very museum. It paled in comparison to many others for the 'risqué' element. The Louvre makes it look like a kindergarten finger painting classroom in that regards. If the pope was going to firebomb a museum for that, half of Europe's national museums would be first to the torch.

Replies:   Ross at Play  karactr
Ross at Play

@Remus2

If the pope was going to firebomb a museum for that ...

Hey, you're preaching to an atheist here. :-)

robberhands

After all the previous political entertainment, a religious discussion is exactly what I don't want to see.

Replies:   Ross at Play
Ross at Play

@robberhands

After all the previous political entertainment, a religious discussion is exactly what I don't want to see.

What would be the alternative? Remember the old saying, "Never discuss politics, religion, or sex in polite company." Where do you think this lot would go to next?

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@Ross at Play

Where do you think this lot would go to next?

No idea. Maybe we could discuss the merits of an ellipsis versus three dots. This "lot" has nothing to do with polite company anyway.

awnlee jawking

@Keet

One is compliance with the law, something you just can't ignore.


I don't think that argument works.

Google obeys the law in China therefore it's not censorship.

AJ

Replies:   Keet
Keet

@awnlee jawking

I don't think that argument works.

Google obeys the law in China therefore it's not censorship.

AJ

It's a matter of point-of-view. From western countries we see it as censorship, from within China it's compliance with the law although the citizens of China will probably see it as censorship too. As long as companies like Google don't give a shit about basic human rights situations like this will remain. Most western countries do same but on a different levels: privacy, freedom of speech. It's all slowly decaying. It's all about money and control.

karactr

@Remus2

If the pope was going to firebomb a museum for that, half of Europe's national museums would be first to the torch.

Including many of the Vatican's own collections.

Replies:   Remus2
Ernest Bywater

Hey, if you had a boat shaped incense holder on a chain you waved around, would that be a censorship?

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2

@karactr

Including many of the Vatican's own collections.


Agreed.

Remus2

@Ernest Bywater

A censer holds incense. I believe the catholic version is called a thurible. They do some of the same jobs as censorship though.
Blow smoke up your arse, and hide the fecal smell.

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