Forum: Author Hangout

When you buy a print book from Amazon, it's print on demand (POD) meaning they don't store the book. They print and mail it when it's purchased.

I rather doubt that this is true for new releases from the traditional dead tree publishers, though it may be true for back catalog books

Not just e-books. When you buy a print book from Amazon, it's print on demand (POD) meaning they don't store the book. They print and mail it when it's purchased.

The bigger thing for Amazon vs Book Stores is that location is not a factor. That dead tree book can just as easily be in Indiana as it could be somewhere in Nevada. Amazon's costs for shipping from either location matter very little, and their model means they don't really need to duplicate inventory between warehouses.

They still duplicate a lot of inventory, but being able to sell from any warehouse, rather than just one storefront's inventory is huge.

For mainstream books, priced at $20+, with their ebooks often selling for $27+, readers will almost ALWAYS go with the print books (even if they purchase them on Amazon).

What exactly are you calling mainstream?

Personally, I would consider the "mainstream" for dead tree books to be mass market paperbacks because that's where the highest sales volume is.

Prices for new mass market paper backs range from $4.99 to $9.99 and that price range has persisted for more than 30 years.

discounts

Stores of all types, not just book stores, have an inventory problem. If things don't sell, and aren't expected to sell, and they can't be sent back to the manufacturer for a credit, they can either be sent to the dump or given a very low price and let the public take them away. Some food gets given to charitable institutions (food banks) and the merchant probably gets a charitable deduction on their taxes, but there is only so much space for inventory in almost all stores, and it has to be moved, one way or another, so new goods can be processed and put on the shelves for sale. Particularly text books are only current for as long as the teaching institution requires students to buy them for the course they are taking. Instructors who write textbooks tend to require the textbooks they wrote be used, but if some other professor takes the class, the textbooks he likes become required and the old ones are now surplus.

If a book doesn't sell, they tear off the cover and send it back to the publisher for credit.

And a couple of major book store chains have been accused by the publishers of cheating, returning the covers to the publisher for credit and then turning around and selling the coverless books into the used book market.

If a book doesn't sell, they tear off the cover and send it back to the publisher for credit. The book gets thrown away

I have seen a message to that effect in at least some of my books.

Note: If you purchased this book without a cover you should be aware that this book is stolen propriety. It has been reported as "unsold and destroyed" to the publisher and neither the author or the publisher has received any payment for this "stripped book."

I imagine that a large chain might find it easier to return books than a small single "family owned and operated" bookstore. A large chain might also have books that don't sell in some locations shipped to others that have trouble keeping them on the shelves.

Note: If you purchased this book without a cover you should be aware that this book is stolen propriety. It has been reported as "unsold and destroyed" to the publisher and neither the author or the publisher has received any payment for this "stripped book."

Yeah, I really like that warning. I don't know how many books I have accidentally ripped the cover off of, or had the glue fail on the spine and the cover fall off. Does that mean that my book, which I paid for, is now stolen?

Kinda like the 'do not remove this tag under penalty of law' on pillows and mattresses.

Kinda like the 'do not remove this tag under penalty of law' on pillows and mattresses.

Perhaps the most successful idea any advertiser has ever had was pillow manufacturer should print on them "We recommend this pillow be replaced in [some year]". Sales increased by hundreds of percents!

Particularly text books are only current for as long as the teaching institution requires students to buy them for the course they are taking.

I used the words "text books" to indicate that the contents are how to do specific jobs rather than those used for scholastic purposes. One, not previously referred to, written by Escoffier was published in 1907. Apart from having to divide every weight by 5 or 10 it is just good as my Thomas Keller's French Laundry books which are pretty modern. 80% of the Mrs Beeton (from Victorian years) which I gave my daughter is still applicable in the same way
I read what other contributors have written; given the plethora of competing books I still don't understand why the publishers even print most of them - very few if any will be "classics"

Thomas Keller's French Laundry books

I assume you meant "Cookery" books.

My recommendation for the perfect gift for any Australian teenager is Margaret Fulton's Encyclopedia of Food and Cookery.

They'll hate you at the time, but years later they will thank you.

Margaret Fulton's Encyclopedia of Food and Cookery

Not one I know so looked it up on Amazon; excellent reviews of the book, the electronic versions slated However second hand versions from £161.03 and new at £569.47 for +/- 1000 pages - phew! I would be looking in the second hand and charity shops. At 80- the authoress is still churning them out

second hand versions from £161.03 and new at £569.47

WTF?

Send me an email if you ARE interested.
I'd happily arrange for a friend in Australia to buy the latest hard cover version for AUD$45 and post it to you.
Kindle version is only AUD$10 at amazon.com.au.

BTW, your post reminded me of something a good friend once said to me. I mentioned buying this for both my nephews and she said, "Yeah, but you might add the French Cookbook by Jamie Oliver. That's all they'll ever really need."

Ross at Play
1/7/2018, 1:12:46 PM
Updated: 1/7/2018, 1:13:28 PM

@sejintenej

Thomas Keller's French Laundry books

I assume you meant "Cookery" books.

I believe Thomas Keller converted an old French laundry in California to a restaurant and called the restaurant the French Laundry; his cookbooks refer to the name of the restaurant.

I simply don't understand the book selling business. How on earth can anyone even print and circulate books at the discounts being given to the public?

The publisher is still getting full price. Either the retailer or a wholesaler is eating the cost of the discount.

Keeping a physical object like a book in inventory costs money. At some point, the cost of keeping an item in inventory exceeds the the profit that could be made by selling the item at full price.

At that point, it's in the financial best interest of the retailer to discount the item as far a necessary to get it out of inventory. Recouping some of the money spent on the item rather than losing the entire wholesale cost.

Keeping a physical object like a book in inventory costs money. At some point, the cost of keeping an item in inventory exceeds the the profit that could be made by selling the item at full price.

Which isn't even getting into the costs of operating a retail/commercial space where emphasis needs to be placed on the retail part. Commercial properties in general aren't cheap, but a commercial property where a lot of retail activity is happening? That's expensive territory.

There also is "image" and accessibility to throw into the mix as well, which will also tend to result in lower capacity per square foot of floor space being paid for compared to say, a large commercial warehouse.

A warehouse, which doesn't have to worry about pretty, or "Accessible" can pack a lot of product into a little piece of space. Something the retailer cannot do on the customer side. Further, they can locate their warehouse in an area where real estate costs aren't so expensive, further improving their operating margins

A novelty book store (the store itself is a bit of a novelty, not that is sells novelty books) in an area with high tourist traffic.

It would be more convincing if the article were about a more traditional style bookstore with a fixed location in an area where it was dependent primarily on local sales rather than tourist traffic.

It would be more convincing if the article were about a more traditional style bookstore with a fixed location in an area where it was dependent primarily on local sales rather than tourist traffic.

It's location is (presently) fixed, but yes a big reason for it's success is it's novelty.

It's location is (presently) fixed

It currently has a long term berth it operates from, but the book store itself is a canal boat, not a fixed location. If tourist activity moves, they can move the shop.

Yet some bookstores are doing well.

Without looking at the article, I'm guessing they're either "rare books" or they're a book store that provides a number of other services in addition to books. Such as the book store cafe model that Barnes & Noble as well as Borders explored(to not much long-term success in their case).

It isn't that book stores cannot survive what is going on, but they have to be creative and very "outside the box" in how they approach it. They have to know their local market very well, identify a niche that isn't just books, and exploit it for all its worth.

I'm guessing they're either "rare books" or they're a book store that provides a number of other services in addition to books.

Neither. It's a tourist attraction, a book store built on a canal boat that has a berth in an area with high tourist traffic.

Trouble is while you are enjoying your coffee and discount book, the students in your college town are being taped by the professor/booksellers collusion that is adding to the catastrophic student debt crisis.

Personally I view them as a modern twist on an older concept - Mail Order Catalogues.

As a kid living rural, isolated, Sears, Roebuck was our 'dream book.' Parcel post and PIE freight truck delivered.

Seven decades later it's Amazon. I was tipped to a DVD discounted movie; then found used copy of same, 'like new' from SoCal charity store, via Amazon, several dollars cheaper. Same day, wife wanted steel shelving unit; found it on Amazon, not available locally, free freight, six days. Last week, elder friend wanted box set of DVD 1940's movie musicals, retail $160; found like new used on Amazon, $32. Arrived as advertised, friend delighted. Have coming 33,800 BTU kerosene heater for backyard bunkhouse, $152 w/sales tax, free shipping; not available locally. My Android tablet ($49, Nook) is full of ebooks. Goes anywhere with me; fills all those waiting room hours.

This is the age of the digital catalog. Only way for a brick & mortar store to survive is to fill a unique niche, and offer outstanding customer service.

But that's always been true. It keeps coming around like a wheel. Unless the bookstore offers a unique service, fills a unique demand, its a buggy whip store.

Which makes the failure of Sears all the more laughable. Etail is the modern version of mail order catalog.

Talk about a company not having vision. They already had distribution in place. They lacked the vision, or will, to make the transition.

The worst thing the catalog people ever did was to start using clay-coated slick paper to enhance the illustrations. It was far less absorbent and when folded, those sharp pointy corners hurt like hell! Newspapers (newsprint) were far gentler.

If you like black fingers and clothing.

If you were using newsprint or catalogs for toilet paper, you were probably using an outhouse and at that point, ink stains on fingers and clothing are probably not a major concern.

I'm a little unclear re: switch's origins, but 'black fingers and clothing' were mostly limited to the few times a year, generally late fall, when I was ordered to 'black' the parlor stove (using a liquid product in a pint bottle called 'Stove Black') and those times, far more frequently, when I was sent under the old family sedan to drain the oil and grease the chassis zerk fittings.

Yes, we had an outhouse, the 'luxury' model with two adjacent oval cutouts in the planed-plank seat.

I think at some time in the dim past I may have mentioned the night that step-dad rolled and lit a cigarette while 'relaxing' in the outhouse, and carelessly flipped the match down the other hole. A summer's accumulation of wadded catalog paper 'down below' caught fire, and ... fortunately, as was normally the case in our parts, the outhouse was well separated from the house and other buildings.

Were you one of those young people who went out on Halloween and tipped outhouses over onto their door with someone inside?

One of my relatives related that he and his friends used to do that until one year the man moved the outhouse forward about 5 feet.

the ink from the newspaper

Yup. News ink is essentially carbon black dispersed in soybean oil. The ink is absorbed by the porous news print, but as you say, the news ink will rub off on the fingers. It takes a fair amount of handling, over a number of pages, for any appreciable finger-staining to occur. We worked all day printing and handling printed sheets in my newspaper print shop and had little problem. Washes off quite easily.

Then there was the time, late in the day, when we realized our two children (boy, six; girl, four) were too quiet for too long. Found them sitting under the open ink tray of the old flat-bed news press, dipping and "anointing" each other with globs of news ink. That took a fair amount of Stoddard solvent and clean rags to fix.