Forum: Author Hangout

The whole compound word situation word situation is complex, and it's very hard to say what is what, because they vary with the types of words being used. I find it best to make it a hyphenated compound word when there's a chance it may be confusing. When there's no risk of confusion then you can go either way without any concerns.

BTW if I bought a new Tesla in a bright shade of blue I'd call it a blue electric car, and might even go with blue electric-car for the compound word issue.

AJ, this explanation by EB is spot on.

Note that the "standard order" would be electric before blue, so blue electric car should suffice, technically: because the order is wrong this should be interpreted as an adjective, blue, modifying a noun phrase, electric car.
But confusion by readers still seems possible. As EB noted, blue electric-car, is not wrong, but I don't really like it. My solution would be using a comma to show the adjectives are not connected. Either of these is unambiguous: 'electric, blue car' or 'blue, electric car'.

But multi-word colours before nouns? I always hyphenate those. I may use more hyphens than most here, but it's really not that many, and I see occasional extra hyphens as an insignificant burden on readers compared to the benefits of using a consistent style which automatically eliminates almost all potential ambiguities.

hyphens

Words aren't virgins, they lost their hyphens long ago.

Words aren't virgins, they lost their hyphens long ago.

And the flock responded, "Haymen."

The key with hyphenation is that you always hyphenate multi-word adjectives, so you'd have "lanky-tall blond" or "slow-assed motorcycle".

I agree, but it is difficult to explain to others why it's worth bothering about.
It took me a while to come to the conclusion it's easier to do it routinely than to think every time about whether something has some potential ambiguity.
The current one from AJ is an example of how easy they are to miss. I needed a double-take after I first read AJ's comment that 'electric blue car' was potentially ambiguous. Finally it dawned on me that 'electric car' has an entirely different meaning of its own. If I wasn't routinely using hyphesn in things like 'electric-blue car', because 'electric blue' is a compound adjective, that one would have slipped under my guard.
I just find it easier, and safer. There really aren't enough of them be bothered if they cause some sort of burden on readers. I don't even think they do. When used consistently, my impression is they assist me to comprehend what I read faster.

Another alternative is to use "neon blue" or "metallic blue" instead. I haven't heard anyone refer to "electric blue" since the 60s and 70s.

My 2015 F150 is officially per Ford electric blue.

But electric blue is a girlie colour

When's the engagement party, Mr OP?

But electric blue is a girlie colour ... ;)

Electric-blue is so yesterday, darling. It was quite popular around 2014 and that's ancient history in fashion.

Somehow, I doubt those of us here in the Forum are concerned with being 'in fashion". :)

Not for themselves but AJ seems to be effusive about the styling of the prom queen in his story.

Perhaps it is a writer thing rather than a personal fetish.

Why would I care for his reasons? He seems to have fun with it.

@robberhands
Electric-blue is so yesterday, darling. It was quite popular around 2014 and that's ancient history in fashion.

@Crumbly Writer
You're dating yourself, kiddie. Electric blue was first introduced back in the sixties or early seventies, and hardly 'became' popular in 2014. The fact that anyone remembers it today is a testament to its longevity.

Hmm? It's all in the delivery.

I know robberhands was joking. I can "hear" his post being said with an overtly gay affectation.

Were you joking? I'd be confident you were if 'You're dating yourself, kiddie' had been placed at the end, but the way your post is framed makes it impossible to NOT interpret everything after that as being intended seriously.

forums

Maybe this is an againstum?

Maybe this is an againstum?

Or a foreum? Gotta watch out or the joke police might hit you in the head with a golf ball.

And you're the one who rants about not caring whether people 'get' your jokes or not.

You were the only one ranting - not me. You were the one who started saying I should "change my style" because I get the "delivery wrong", and claiming a "majority" often cannot tell when something I post is intended as a joke.
I was commenting on your delivery this time, not objecting to the attempt at humour - or even saying the attempt failed.
I said I would have been confident "You're dating yourself, kiddie" was a joke - if you'd left it there. Once the punchline has been said, the joke is over. What made it confusing was your continuation on with other mundane, trivial facts.
You could have put what followed in a new paragraph. Even that would have been enough to make it clear that you had moved on to something different, rather than the way you framed it which made it appear as if what followed was a continuation of the joke.
I just object when you claim others cannot spot when I'm making a joke - and only a joke. When I say I am happy if some people don't notice my jokes, I am only talking about rare occasions when I can frame something that has a literal meaning some readers will think was my only intention, but that others will see it can also be interpreted in a different way that contains the joke.

I was using you as an example

Merry Xmas, CW.

You are right that sarcasm can be especially tricky. Everyone will misfire at times and the audience really matters.
I'm grateful to have somewhere to practise where the consequences of my failures are not too catastrophic.

If I respond to a joke, with another joke, why would you assume it's anything but a joke?

I came back from my daily walk for coffee and I want to discuss what when wrong in your post.

I stress, I want to consider it as an example, and not to belabour a point I've already made.

You do not take great care to ensure your posts here say precisely what you mean. That's fine; you are busy; it rarely takes much effort to fathom the drift of your posts.

Without identifying the culprit - if you get my drift? - I'd like to explain how this post someone made above suffers from a common technical problem with writing that doesn't exist when the same words are spoken: when writing you must find some way for words and punctuation to do all the work necessary.

You're dating yourself, kiddie. Electric blue was first introduced back in the sixties or early seventies, and hardly 'became' popular in 2014. The fact that anyone remembers it today is a testament to its longevity.

When I first read up the the word 'kiddie', I knew it was a joke OR the first part of a joke. If I'd taken a moment to focus on the word 'kiddie', I expect I'd have noticed it was referring to the quoted, "2014 and that's ancient history in fashion." That works for me as a successful joke!

However, my attention was drawn away from the punchline of the joke, the word 'kiddie', by another sentence following immediately after it. My expectation as a reader was this continuation would expand on or clarify the first part of a still-incomplete joke. By the end of a lengthy explanation of facts I found tedious I had no idea what the previous statement was intended to mean.

I needed something to indicate I should finish processing the current idea before moving on to the next. What happened was that I tried to hold that thought in my memory while assimilating additional information needed to complete the idea. The inevitable result was some degree of confusion.

It would not have taken much to prevent that. Starting what followed on a new line would certainly be enough. Even an exclamation point after 'kiddie' would have alerted me to the fact that word was important.

The fact that anyone remembers it today is a testament to its longevity.

My 2015 Ford F150 is officially Electric Blue.

My 2015 Ford F150 is officially Electric Blue.

As I've said, back in 2014 electric blue was quite popular in fashion, darling. Car manufacturers are just a bit slow on the up-take. Today, your car needs a new paint-job if you want to be viewed as a fashionista. In your case I'd recomment Little-Boy-Blue.

In your case I'd recommend Little-Boy-Blue.

Miaow! :-)

Today, your car needs a new paint-job if you want to be viewed as a fashionista. In your case I'd recomment Little-Boy-Blue.

Actually, the same shade of blue is available on the 2018 F150, only now they are calling it lighting blue instead of electric blue.

Actually, the same shade of blue is available on the 2018 F150,...

I bet, when you torture and threaten your hairdresser long enough, big flicked hair with a long feather cut is also still available. You could look like Farrah Fawcett in the seventies; maybe add a beard like Barry Gibb, to appear more manly.

You could look like Farrah Fawcett in the seventies

A strange thing happened when I looked at ngrams.

A strange thing happened when I looked at ngrams.

Ngrams is always a good source searching for something strange.

something strange

Less strange if you change smoothing to 0 for such a short time span.

I 'stated' the last fashion-high for electric-blue was in 2014. How much do you think a statistic up to no more than 2008 will dazzle me?

I 'stated' the last fashion-high for electric-blue was in 2014. How much do you think a statistic up to no more than 2008 will dazzle me?

Okay. It was CW, not you, who first suggested it was from the 60s and 70s. I lost track of that when you mentioned Farrah Fawcett.

I lost track of that when you mentioned Farrah Fawcett.

The time, Farrah Fawcett was a good reason to lose your track is also long gone.

lighting blue

That doesn't make sense to me. Did you mean 'lightning blue'?

AJ

That doesn't make sense to me. Did you mean 'lightning blue'?

When was DS ever accused of making sense?

more-and-more 'British' cars

I think that's the first time I've ever seen anyone hyphenate a compound determiner before a noun.

blue electric blue electric car ;)

UGH! A blue electric-blue electric car ;)

Despite the 'order of adjectives' rules, I have the impression that the order can be adjusted to accommodate importance.

Yes and but, as Sir Humphrey Appleby might reply.
The "order" is not fixed; if it sounds okay it is the "correct" order. If I recall correctly, the theory would assess 'big bad wolf' as being in the wrong order?
But also, you may always show that you have chosen the order of adjectives, most important first, by separating them with commas.

Ouch, that wasn't a reason I was expecting. Now you've got me worrying about the character wearing a 'forest green dress'.

IMHO, thou mayest write electric-blue car, forest-green dress, and blush-red face - or thou mayest be wrong. :-)
Also, while making that kind of mistake may be forgivable, in my opinion, putting the colours in capitals would be an unforgivable sin.

I faintly remember – about 45 years ago – "Electric Blue" as a porno production company. AJ is this the second interpretation you had in mind, or came I up with a third one?

Using todays criteria it was – IIRC – soft porn.

HM.

before that it was a bright metalic blue paint for cars and bikes.

Still is. My 2015 Ford F150 is Electric Blue.

I faintly remember – about 45 years ago – "Electric Blue" as a porno production company. AJ is this the second interpretation you had in mind, or came I up with a third one?

That seems highly unlikely when used as an adjective for car.

Statistics show that white van man is actually quite a safe driver, although not very considerate.

There is one such who overtakes me in a 30mph limit (and I have a speed controller set to that) in a series of blind bends at 6am every morning. Safe? he has to be the exception

The scariest are foreign lorry drivers. They seem oblivious to road height and weight restrictions and, driving on motorways, they often pull out blind since their mirrors are on the wrong side.

One tried to run me off the motorway when he decided that when he was level he had passed me! To me the worst by far are Bel+++++s towing caravans. they don't know where the indicators are ......
Another problem we have is lorry drivers who don't speak English nor the language of the country where their lorry is registered and want to know how to get somewhere.

Allegedly white was the most popular car colour purchased in the UK last year, although locally I'm convinced it was black

Black and white are supposedly the most popular colors for cars in the US. I'm not a fan of either. You'd have to wash a white car almost daily and I live in a state where road salt is used. A black car covered in white residue looks awful, and its not easy to wash a car in freezing weather.

Black and white are supposedly the most popular colors for cars in the US.

White cars are involved in less accidents than black and dark-blue cars. They can are more easily seen at night.
Green can be pretty dangerous too if driven where there is a lot of green in the environment.
Red is the worst - but that's entirely because of the character of those who buy red cars.
Orange is probably the safest, but then others are likely to think your character is hostile if you see you in an orange car.

Actually, statistically, yellow cars are the safest because the colors stand out, and there aren't that many of them.

Yeah. I kind of knew they were safer than orange, because of visibility ... I just couldn't think of anything sarcastic to say about the colour yellow.

Yeah. I kind of knew they were safer than orange, because of visibility ... I just couldn't think of anything sarcastic to say about the colour yellow.

Oh, I thought they are safer because everyone knows about those reckless cab drivers and drives cautiously when seeing a yellow car. ;-)

HM.

We had a yellow car once, it felt like we were driving a banana every time we went anywhere, and everyone noticed whenever you did something stupid.

I had an uncle who had an old Chevy Suburban that was yellow. It wasn't quite the right shade, but it felt like riding in a school bus.

Dad bought an Oldsmobile atationwagon circa 1965, which was fire engine red.

Now, you have to understand that his father had been the fire chief of the Oregon City Fire Department when dad was in high school, and a number of his relatives were also active in the fire department; dad actually lived at the fire atation with his father.

Anyway, the first time he went up to Oregon City to visit relatives, they looked at the stationwagon, and the comment was, "Well, it's the right color, but where are the ladders?"