Forum: Author Hangout

That was my concern. My chapters so far average between 6-9K words, this current one is already on track to potentially be in the 11-13 range, which I know isn't that much more. But as I look at my outline it looks like more and more as the action speeds up and increases to the climax.

So dislike of long chapters noted, I have a place I can divide the current chapter that is pretty uneven, but it might work better for future chapters.

I know I need to write to suit and tell the story well, but I don't like the idea of structure and layout detracting from the story either.

but I don't like the idea of structure and layout detracting from the story either.

Absolutely agree. In my first novel, I had a chapter over 6,000 words which was much larger than the other ones. I found a place to split it into 2 chapters so they would both be about 3,000 words. An ideal place for word count. But I didn't split the chapter in two. It just felt wrong to do it.

Merlyn, it is with some trepidation that I write this post - I do not want to discourage a new author.
Two of the most successful authors on the site (based on books sold elsewhere) have both suggested one chapter for one day in the story is not a good idea. I would urge you to use 'episodic chapters' in your future stories.

Since Ross is quoting me, I'll add a caveat to Ross's advice. While episodic chapters are a better way of dealing with stories, by and large, it's often used by new authors as they struggle to figure out what works. In that case, I wouldn't suggest abandoning it too soon, as it takes a little while to get a feel for it.

Instead, take it under advisement, but continue with your current story as you are—there's no sense upsetting your current writing style—but you'll want to gradually shift away from the 'day-in-the-life' style as you learn it's many pitfalls (this being only one).

When I specified how I once broke a 14,000 word file in two, that was the LAST time I ever did that. I switched over to episodic chapters immediately afterwards.

Another drawback (to both styles) is chapter sizes. Since DITL chapters tend to be longer (as you include more of the minutia of daily life), episodic chapters tend to be shorter.

Back in the days when I wrote DITL chapters, my chapter sizes ranged from 4,000 to 14,000 words. When I switched over to episodic chapters, they fell to 1,500 to 9,000 words. My general aim is 6,000 words per chapter, which was easy to reach with DITL chapters, while it's rarer now. Keep that in mind as you decide which to adapt.

But the biggest advantage of episodic chapters is that you focus more on the story, rather than 'just another day' in an ongoing story. You tend to drop anything which doesn't advance the story vs. including the things the character faces each day. Generally, that'll make your stories easier to read, and make the story progression more natural (i.e. less 'forced').

Having said that, writing stories in diary format, where each entry spans exactly one day, seems to be growing in popularity. I think that's a very specific form of fiction and your story is better than that.

I've noticed the same thing, but came to a very different conclusion. For me, that simply reflects more new authors, who haven't yet figured out how to structure more complex stories yet, rather than an increase in that style of storytelling. To determine that, you'd have to figure out how many best-selling novels use each style, to see how their use affects sales overall.

My understanding is that diary format was very popular in ye times of olde, partly because diaries were the format people were most accustomed to for recording personal information. It fell into disuse as writers became more sophisticated. Then along came the millennials, with their short attention spans and addiction to blogging, and that revitalised the style. But the product of that style of writing doesn't lend itself to gripping thrillers, it's more for lightweight humour (Adrian Mole, Bridget Jones), hence my observation that Merlyn's story is too good for it.

AJ

Thank you, I appreciate that. I will try a better style with the next ;)

If, in your story, the end of a day occurs at a convenient point to end a chapter, I'd go with it. My rule would be to not force the issue either way.

And if I ever write a story with a score of over nine, my advice might even be worth considering ;)

AJ

If an author wishes to use a daily diary format and it's an extremely busy day then it can be cut up into Morning, Afternoon, Evening, and Night or Events during the day and use as many as needs be to do the job.

Even if you use the 'diary format', there's nothing that says each chapter needs to be a full day. First of all, you want your story to move forward, so if nothing happens in the story for two weeks, you don't want to continue churning out daily chapters. You simply skip forward to the next subsequent event.

Secondly, as Ernest suggests, you don't need to include the full day. You can also start at any time in the day. If you're writing about someone in school, a natural break would be the school day (focused on the latest trauma/adventure, rather than the next day) and the next could focus on after-school activities, or evening dates or, for adventure stories, adventures or research into what the characters are facing.

Thinking along those lines will naturally lead you to writing episodic day-in-the-life chapters, which is a decent middle-ground, as you'll cut much of the fat while still maintaining the diary format.

Depending on what's happening 6,000 words for the events of a day are easily possible.

She Is the One over at AFF once had a single scene go 14k words as the two leads visited a psychologist for relationship counseling.

jashley13 writes as he goes and has stuck to a chapter every second week schedule very well for almost three years (except for his time in Basic Training). He had a few posts top over 40k words, but has settled into 18-20k per post, containing 2 or 3 scenes each.

If there's a good breaking point, I'd split it into two. If not, I'm (and the reader) is stuck with a long chapter.

That was the example where I broke a 'one theme' day into two chapters, by breaking it into two separate chapters. However, it was such an awkward transition, I switched to purely episodic chapters in my next book.

So far it seems like two types of chapter formatting have discussed – diary and episodic. I'm not sure what you would call the chapter format I used in my 'Sauce for the Gander'. It isn't exactly diary format, which seems to be defined above as 1 day = 1 chapter. It isn't episodic, which seems to be defined as 1 episode = 1 chapter or sometimes several short episodes in one chapter. Episodic also seems to imply a story can have multiple episodes, but each episode starts and ends as a contiguous passage that can span several days or chapters before the next episode begins.

Episodic simply means that the chapter (or section) only focuses on a single episode, but an 'episode' may span a series of encounters, say if there's a conflict with a policeman, who then drags you into the station and questions you, only belatedly releasing you.

The 'episode' in this case revolves around the police encounter, but it can easily be something occurring over a weekend, as long as you wrap up the immediate conflict in the given chapter (section)—I do the same thing when I have multi-chapter named sections.

Is there a name/label for this style of storytelling and chapter formatting?

Biographical? It's clearly not diary-style (diarial?), though I'm guessing it's more episodic, since the it's broken into distinct units not defined by chapters.

Curious, I tried searching Google for "Literary chapter types". I didn't find anything useful, but I did find the following: "Critical Essays Use of Literary Devices in the Intercalary Chapters of The Grapes of Wrath". Apparently 'intercalary' is a type of chapter (dealing with descriptive text independent of the calendar events in the story). It doesn't look like an easy technique to pull off, given the description of it on the outline (Cliff Notes, of all things).

Another example of that would be interspersing chapters where your characters search for a murderer in a vineyard (borrowing from a certain SOL author) with chapters documenting the winemaking process.

If anyone can find a literary discussion of different chapter types, I'd appreciate seeing how they're dissected. However, another obvious one is 'flashback' where each chapter jumps back and forth in time (thought there are many different forms of flashbacks in storytelling). Think of that silly movie about two time-crossed lovers communicating via a magic mailbox. Each chapter advances the story in separate time frames.

The 'episode' in this case revolves around the police encounter, but it can easily be something occurring over a weekend, as long as you wrap up the immediate conflict in the given chapter (section)—I do the same thing when I have multi-chapter named sections.

The situation I was trying to define could be stated as my story having what I think of as multiple subplots, say 10 subplots for discussion purposes. The subplots could be an ongoing argument with another character, an evolving situation, etc. The way that Ernest seems to handle subplots is to write about 1 subplot and complete the subplot, before starting the next subplot. I do that also to a certain extent. However, I often start subplot 1, switch to subplot 2 and then 3, go back to subplot 1, start subplots 4, 5, and 6, touch of subplot 1 again, start subplot 7, finalize subplots 1 and 2, and continue in this fashion to the end of the story. If the story is to have a sequel, many of the subplots don't get resolved in the first part.

It seems a much safer way.

Yes! It gives you the ability to modify the earlier chapters if you decide the story should follow a different path than your initial concept.

Also, for the record I have already decided that book 2 will get written before posting starts. It seems a much safer way.

Personally, I prefer to finish one while I'm working on the other. Since editing requires different skill sets than writing, I find I have to do both otherwise I'll run into a dry period when I'm done with one. If you write/edit/revise fast, that's fine, but it takes me time to wade through everything, and working while I'm doing the other helps the process (i.e. write while you revise/edit). That way, when you complete the first book, you're already part way through the next. Add in a months delay between each story as a cushion, and you're set to go. But I rarely complete two complete books in advance.

That said, I actually do stack books up, because I like to offer one (for sale) while posting the other, so I like to publish one book while the other is posting. That necessitates a longer window on each story, so yeah, I'll often have a couple books lined up at a time.

The situation I was trying to define could be stated as my story having what I think of as multiple subplots, say 10 subplots for discussion purposes. The subplots could be an ongoing argument with another character, an evolving situation, etc. The way that Ernest seems to handle subplots is to write about 1 subplot and complete the subplot, before starting the next subplot. I do that also to a certain extent. However, I often start subplot 1, switch to subplot 2 and then 3, go back to subplot 1, start subplots 4, 5, and 6, touch of subplot 1 again, start subplot 7, finalize subplots 1 and 2, and continue in this fashion to the end of the story. If the story is to have a sequel, many of the subplots don't get resolved in the first part.

That's the same technique I employ for subplots. Some are short term, like 'will the girl talk to me', but most extend for much of the story, only resolved near the end. However, with episodic chapters, you can base a single chapter/section on a subplot without resolving it, you merely address the initial issue in the subplot, base the entire chapters/section on it, and then move on, developing the subplots as the story progresses.

The way that Ernest seems to handle subplots is to write about 1 subplot and complete the subplot, before starting the next subplot. I do that also to a certain extent. However, I often start subplot 1, switch to subplot 2 and then 3, go back to subplot 1, start subplots 4, 5, and 6, touch of subplot 1 again, start subplot 7, finalize subplots 1 and 2, and continue in this fashion to the end of the story

I view each plot line as a string. Some are long, others short. They are bundled together in a rope. The main plot is the one that is given primary attention in the story. The subplots are dealt with when they contact the main plot.

I'm writing a romance, so the main plot is boy meets girl and the things that happen between the two of them. In the third act certain things happen which lead to the climax. The way I have it plotted, the MC has to become a close platonic friend of his cousin's girlfriend (even if there is some sexual tension). This girlfriend has her own backstory and things going on in her life. I have to choose which parts of her story make it into the book, based on how much it influences the main plot and how much the reader has to know to understand it all.

The way that Ernest seems to handle subplots is to write about 1 subplot and complete the subplot, before starting the next subplot. I do that also to a certain extent. However, I often start subplot 1, switch to subplot 2 and then 3, go back to subplot 1, start subplots 4, 5, and 6, touch of subplot 1 again, start subplot 7, finalize subplots 1 and 2, and continue in this fashion to the end of the story. If the story is to have a sequel, many of the subplots don't get resolved in the first part.

Most often subplots are short and sneak in between other activities, but some can carry over to later parts of a story. However, I do try to have all the subplots closed out before the end of the book, so I've nothing minor hanging over. Mind you, there are also such things as running gags and running plots that pop up all over the place in a series, but they aren't super critical to the main plot.

However, I do try to have all the subplots closed out before the end of the book, so I've nothing minor hanging over. Mind you, there are also such things as running gags and running plots that pop up all over the place in a series, but they aren't super critical to the main plot.

The other thing that happens with subplots, is that even if they're resolved by the end of the book, like old TV stars, they're often revived in sequels to keep a trend going.