Forum: Author Hangout

Okay, that's my opinion, for what it's worth.

Thank you, that's exactly the sort of response I was hoping for.

AJ

Based on a Latin class long, long ago, if graffiti were intended to be singular, it would be graffitus.

Joking aside, the singular is graffito (and scampo, concerto etc).

AJ

Based on a Latin class long, long ago, if graffiti were intended to be singular, it would be graffitus. Consider alumnus vs. alumni.

I prefer aluminum. It tastes better! Does that mean I should use graffitum? 'D

Data's brother was named Lore. I also heard he had a sister named Rumor.

Nope, in true SOL style, the sister's name was "Datum". 'D

Nope, in true SOL style, the sister's name was "Datum". 'D

Data had multiple sisters and, like George Foreman named all his sons George, his parents named all their daughters Datum.

So when Data told his parents, "Data is going to my room," they thought he was referring to himself in the 3rd-person when he meant his sisters were going to his room for an orgy.

Now if his grammar had been correct, he would have said, "Data are going to my room," and his parents would have become suspicious.

I really hope I don't have to explain the joke.

No, I got yours, but I was 'piling on', adding a separate joke of my own. Do I need to explain that one to you? (Hint: As far as I know, Data never had ANY sisters. Instead, mine was a sexist joke.)

Data's brother was named Lore. I also heard he had a sister named Rumor.

No, but he had a daughter named Lal.

Dr. Noonian Singh only made Lore and Data. But Data was fully functional, as Tasha Yar AND the Borg Queen found out.

They actually had two sisters, Rumora and Anecdote.

And a little brother named Thesaurus? 'D

Scampi, which I just had to look up 'cos Aussies eat prawns, mate, I would think of as plural (many prawns) rather than singular (the name of a dish).

Sorry, "Scampi" doesn't mean "prawns", it's an Italian dish featuring prawns over pasta with a sauce, thus it's a "prawn/pasta dish" not the prawns themselves.

But I agree with both you and Ernest. We're NOT using the Italian definition, as we're using the English term, which is a plural collective.

By the way, what's a singular confetti? A confetta?

Nope, the singular of "confetti" is "confetto", as in "You have a confetto in your nose from the confetti you cleaned off your storefront."

Scampi, which I just had to look up 'cos Aussies eat prawns, mate, I would think of as plural (many prawns)

Scampo means a single prawn, but I've yet to see it in English contexts other than those pointing out that scampi is plural cf concerto/concerti.

AJ

and I had to remember what a prawn was

That prompted me to look up 'prawn' in urban dictionaries for a meaning from childhood days, as in "don't be a prawn" ie an ass or a dumbass. I couldn't find it! But I did find a meaning I was unfamiliar with - a girl with a decent body but substandard face.

AJ

Scampo means a single prawn, but I've yet to see it in English contexts other than those pointing out that scampi is plural cf concerto/concerti.

Which is a point which is confusing many of us, since the original question, and your answer, are referencing the Italian usages, while the rest of us are referencing the American term and usages (i.e. is it the Italian plural, or the plural of an Italian word in an English context?). Thus, once again, we're mainly talking past one another.

I'm just chewing the cud. I'm satisfied that my 'graffiti was competely obscured' won't offend my reader(s) sensibilities. ;)

AJ

It should be "data are" because the singular is "datum is" and the plural is "data are." However, "data is" is what most people would say.

Nope. Since the singular is "datum", that makes "data" another plural collective, making is "data is" since you're referring to ALL the data as a single entity.

By the way, why aren't we discussing this shit in the "Editors Forum"?

why aren't we discussing this shit in the "Editors Forum"?

Because Authors write it. Do it right the first time.

Because Authors write it. Do it right the first time.

But if WE do it right, and the Editors think it's wrong, we'll repeat this entire discussion all over again. :(

That's WHY I asked my "two day's time" question.

Nope. Since the singular is "datum", that makes "data" another plural collective,

My field was Data Management (DBA/DA). Trust me, "data" is plural and is "data are." But no one says that.

ETA: Grammar Girl's take:

So if data is correct as both a count noun and as a mass noun, which should you use? It comes down to style and personal preference. Many academic and scientific fields, as well as many publishers and newspapers, still insist on the plural count noun use of data, as in The data are compelling, but it is more commonly used as a singular mass noun, as in The data is compelling.

Same as "the media are idiots."

Which is wrong too, since it's the alt-President who's the idiot in this case (not that I'm critiquing him, but because he doesn't seem to have the slightest clue how the government function and lies about everything (lies, or simply doesn't KNOW what the truth is, which qualifies him as an "idiot"?).

A midget psychic escaped from prison. Headline: Small Medium at Large.

Or, if a Large psychic escapes, then the headline is: Large Medium thinks small. Or, in the case of a Medium psychic: Medium Medium at Large.

We could waste days here!

Like we haven't already!

I was getting a bit testy yesterday (duh!), because I asked, what I thought, were two simple questions, and I lost the entire rest of the day debating what types of words the various answers were, rather than figuring out how to phrase the damn sentences!

Reminded me of the "Headless Body in Topless Bar" headline

Would that be the one where the insane man attacked his nurse, then fled the asylum?

Nut Screws and Bolts ...

It suggests in a technical field where the word 'datum' may be used, then 'data' is plural.
For the rest of us 'data' is a mass noun and may be used as singular or plural depending on the context.

I've never ONCE heard anyone say: "The datum confirms that Trump is an idiot." As far as I'm concerned, "Datum" is a meaningless term, as I can't conceive of every using it in a census. Now, it might be a specific industry term, but even then, I can't picture an author ever using it, even when discussing IT professionals or statisticians, so who the frick CARES?

Data, at least in America, is a collective mass noun.

It's not an IT or a statistical term, it's a cartographic term. Specifically, a "datum" is the description/algorithm that relates a map projection to the Earth's spheroid.

Ah! That's a better description, as I can picture needing to use that term in that case, but how often will any of us ever create a cartographer character needing to draw a single datum? Thus my point stands. I can see the distinction, but it doesn't impact how authors use the term (unless they're writing a cartographic text book).

That would only be a single piece of evidence and therefor an unreliable small sample size.

Then you get my point, that people are unlikely to reference any 'single point of data' in normal conversation. I still contend that it's a definition useful for only a single industry, and even there, is seldom used, as most people in the industry would still use the common mass-quantity "data".

It suggests in a technical field where the word 'datum' may be used

Yes, it crops up in statistics. Doesn't stop statisticians saying 'data is' though ;)

AJ

But no one says that.

Grammar in evolution, and we are between the prior and future definitions. :)

Collective nouns, like data, are fine for general use.

In certain situations, it is important to differentiate between singular (datum) and plural (data), and in those situations, the participants all need to agree that data is not being used as a collective noun.

In certain situations, it is important to differentiate between singular (datum) and plural (data), and in those situations, the participants all need to agree that data is not being used as a collective noun.

Again, assuming that such needs even exist, it's only a specialized use, not used by anyone outside of that one industry. Therefor, for everyone else, "data is" is the preferred form. It's a meaningless distinction (outside of that one circumstance).