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Another Constructive Voice Swept Aside

Crumbly Writer

There's yet another constructive voice on the Forums about to be swept aside. While you may not agree with everything he said, or his approach when confronted, he's always tried to act as intermediary in any 'literary' dispute.

Now, because he keeps getting penalized for being attacked, he's threatening to walk and talk his roster of up-and-coming authors with him. Even if you're not a fan of Ross's, that's a loss to the entire reading community.

People, we need to work together rather than picking random fights. If you're not interested in grammar specifics, then simply don't read the grammar discussions, it's that simple. Continually repeating that 'no one can dictate what I write or what I say' was never in dispute. Instead, you're only attacking those people who are offering the requested details.

Frankly, if Ross walks, we may lose more than just him and his authors. I've increasing watched as the Author's Forum has shriveled as more and more authors refrain from discussing craft because each time they do, they get attacked for it.

I'm getting tired of it myself. While I'm not prepared to abandon the site, I'm getting pretty tired of the poor reception when I answer someone questions or critiques (trying to clarify issues, rather than retaliating).

Unfortunately, this battle is being waged in secret, as each time Ross is prodded, he erupts and gets reported. When that happens, the entire thread ends up being deleted, so no one ever sees what provoked the original attack.

So let's stop raging these 'secret wars'. If you dis agree with someone, discuss the ideas. Don't attack the individual, and don't run to pappy every time a discussion doesn't go your way.

Now, if you don't mind, I think I'll avoid the forum for a few days. Not only is there less content here than normal, but the attitudes are driving me bonkers (and yes, I've been among those contributing by over-reacting to things).

Crumbly Writer

Update: Well, Ross is already burning bridges. Rather than listening to rational advice, he's now disowning anyone who won't throw themselves on his funeral pyre. I seriously doubt we'll ever see him return, and I have no clue how his (mostly unposted) authors will respond: leaving to or attempting to find new editors willing to stick around rather than abandoning them.

For any editors, there appear to be a few openings which have recently come available. Contact me if you're interested. :(

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

Unfortunate.

I've had my own issues with Ross in the past, which were not entirely his fault.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

I've had my own issues with Ross in the past, which were not entirely his fault.

I can relate. He tends to get a little fanatical when things work against him, something the two of us share to a certain degree. I tend to have difficult letting minor things go too.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


Unfortunately, this battle is being waged in secret, as each time Ross is prodded, he erupts and gets reported. When that happens, the entire thread ends up being deleted, so no one ever sees what provoked the original attack.


You're saying it as if I'm trying to silence him or hide what's going on. I don't like to be portrayed as some vindictive, manipulative or secretive dictator. The message that got him temporarily blocked this time is still on the forum. I've only ever deleted three threads since the new forum started in 2015. One and only one of those threads was because of Ross as the whole thread was nothing but a fight and a flame war.

As you know, I'm fairly laid back and permissive on the site. There are a lot of things which annoy me personally that get posted on the forum, but I don't block them and I don't delete them preferring to allow discussions to happen freely 99.99% of the time. I've even built few things into the forum at Ross's suggestion and was planning to build a tool specifically for him. But I draw the line at personal insults as those are never constructive or useful in any discussion.

Ross has issues with personal disposition and self control. Even he would admit that he has such issues. I could have simply blocked him in the past and kept the block on. He's the only person so far that I've had to block, the other person that was ever reported heeded my warning and behaved ever since. People who have self-control issues can get very disruptive if left unchecked.

Ross's block will be lifted in a few hours and he will be free to post here again.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
REP

@Crumbly Writer

CW,

I agree with you that Ross appears to have used his knowledge with a positive intent.

Unfortunately, I think his ego got involved for it appears to me that in trying to offer advice, he created situations that led to disputes with other posters and then he apparently became upset because the other poster did not agree with him. That led to him expressing his anger by telling the other poster to stop saying certain things to him and to leave him alone. The altercations that he engaged in with other posters were not conducive of a pleasant environment in the Forum. Yes, I acknowledge that I also engage in disputes with other posters, so I am not blameless in that regard.

As almost everyone knows, I have a personal issue with Ross. His leaving may be a loss to the SOL community; but personally, I will not be sad to see him go.

Crumbly Writer

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

You're saying it as if I'm trying to silence him or hide what's going on. I don't like to be portrayed as some vindictive, manipulative or secretive dictator.

Sorry, Lazeez. That wasn't my intent at all—even if it sounded like it—instead I was venting that no one understood the actions which provoked the response, which I felt was unfortunate.

Your actions were akin to an office manager ripping down all the 'offensive' skin-mag posters after a 'hostile workplace' suit has been file. You simply don't want anyone else to be offended by the actions.

As for 'missing the details' of the posts still being there, I got into my own flame war last night, so I was trying to stay away for my mood to calm—something Ross should be before banning people from his life.

I tried to express to him how his attitude is his own worst enemy, and how he might better express himself—but he was uninterested in listening—never even getting to the point when I stated I'd take a stand for him, just not the one he demanded. Screw him if he can't listen to friends. :( (As you can tell, I'm still pissed at his attitude, especially after he threw his authors under the bus for no good reason.)

As always, Lazeez, you're a stand up guy. I never faulted you in how you handled things. It was the tit-for-tat exchanges leading up to it, and everyone's refusal to back off temporarily that got me upset.

Hell, I'm usually perpetually on the edge of blowing up over one thing or another because of my health issues, but I've never gotten that carried away—regardless of what anyone's ever done to me.

Ross at Play

@Crumbly Writer

Unfortunately, this battle is being waged in secret, as each time Ross is prodded, he erupts and gets reported. When that happens, the entire thread ends up being deleted, so no one ever sees what provoked the original attack.

I thank CW for his comments, but this statement is not correct.
To my knowledge, Lazeez has only ever deleted one entire thread, and no individual posts.
I wrote to Lazeez soon after he deleted the entire thread and said I considered that decision "wise".

Ross at Play
Updated:

ONE FURTHER CLARIFICATION

I did not "burn bridges" with the site - but I was prepared to.
I expected to be asked to agree to some things before the block on my posts was removed. I was not asked, and I would never have agreed.
However, if the level of civility on these forums does not improve substantially compared to the recent past, I definitely will leave.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Ross at Play

Nothing like threats to make amends. Civility starts at home. Don't ask what you're incapable of doing yourself.

Replies:   StarFleet Carl
StarFleet Carl

@Crumbly Writer

There is, however, a difference between friendly humor and just plain viciousness. How about we simply get the squared circle and let you two have at it?

Seriously, take a step back, both of you. Are we all adults here, capable of having reasoned discussions? Note that I'm not picking sides, I'll Gibbs slap each of you if needed. :)

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@StarFleet Carl

There is, however, a difference between friendly humor and just plain viciousness. How about we simply get the squared circle and let you two have at it?

Sometimes, when someone won't listen to honest advice, they need the proverbial Gibbs slap to get their attention. That's when the pointed comments are called for—not to hurt them—but to grab their attention. I wouldn't shove him so hard if I didn't think he deserved it. You don't care about those you're uninterested in. The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference.

Replies:   Ross at Play
Switch Blayde

I must have missed something ... and am glad I did.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Switch Blayde

I must have missed something ... and am glad I did.


I saw it starting and ignored it. I think we both lucked out this time.

Ross at Play

@Crumbly Writer

Sometimes, when someone won't listen to honest advice

Sometimes, someone knows they know what is best for themselves - even if nobody else can understand why.
In those circumstances, I do refuse to listen to advice, irrespective of the good intentions of others.
I had made a final decision. What I did next depended on what others' did. There was nothing that could have changed that.
* * *
I do not know how to convince others that a final decision really is final, making any advice from them absolutely futile.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

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