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Mac Questions

Switch Blayde

I hope it's ok to have this thread in this forum. It has nothing to do with SOL or writing, but there are so many knowledgeable people here I want to tap your brains as I learn the Mac.

Switch Blayde

With my PC, I was able to have multiple Firefox windows open at the same time. I can't seem to duplicate that on my wife's Mac (she has Safari, but I don't think Firefox would be any different).

With my PC I was able to start Firefox (or any other program) from my desktop if I had a shortcut icon on it or go to Start and click on the program name. When it opened, the icon appeared in the bar (task bar?) at the bottom. If I opened Firefox multiple times, they all appeared there and I could choose which one to open.

But with the Mac (at least on my wife's Mac), the only place to launch Safari is the bar on the bottom. Is there a way to have Safari (or any other program) open in multiple windows at the same time?

Switch Blayde

This is a LibreOffice question, but it pertains to my new Mac.

You can have as your default to save LO files in MS Office format (see below). Is there any reason I should not do that?

Saving Documents by Default in Microsoft Office Formats

Choose 'Tools - Options' - Load/Save - General.
In the Default file format and ODF settings area, first select a document type, then select the file type for saving.

From now on, if you save a document, the File type will be set according to your choice. Of course, you still can select another file type in the file save dialog.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

I'm not familiar with Safari, but with most browsers when you highlight a site in your bookmarks you can usually 'right click' to get a window with options, one of which is usually 'Open in new window' as well as 'Open in new tab.'

Ernest Bywater

@Switch Blayde

You can have as your default to save LO files in MS Office format (see below). Is there any reason I should not do that?


If that's what you want, go for it. I use .odt simply because it's the industry standard as against the MS proprietary format. But if you wish to go with MS .doc or .docx it should work perfectly for you.

Replies:   EzzyB
Switch Blayde

@Ernest Bywater

you can usually 'right click' to get a window


That's begs another question. I'm using the pad on the laptop, not a mouse. I don't think there is a right click.

Ernest Bywater

OK, I rarely use a laptop or notebook and have never seen or used a Mac one. But most of them now have the touchscreen pad with two narrow bars just above them to represent the buttons for you to click on. Also, some of the modern laptops will act as if you left clicked if you hover the cursor over an icon long enough to activate it, while others require you to hit one of the keyboard keys for the 2nd button - ask the system's help file.

EzzyB

@Ernest Bywater

We shall fight again on this.

.doc was and industry standard, now it's .docx.

Why? It's what people use. .odt is NOT an industry standard because no one uses it.

Just because a bunch of open-source geeks meet at the Peoria Holiday Inn and declare something a "standard" doesn't make it so.

What people use is the standard, and 95% of all documents today are created and saved in .docx. Wishing it different doesn't make it a "standard".

So Switch save the files in those MS formats and save yourself a lot of trouble. You'll just have to reload them and convert them for them to be useful in the future.

The Outsider

@Switch Blayde

Control-click on Mac will bring up the contextual menu for a right-click.

You can have multiple windows with multiple tabs in Firefox for Mac. Command-T for a tab, Command-N for a new window once you start from the dock.

In Safari at the far right of the tab's header bars is a small plus (+) sign to open another tab.

Command-1, Command-2, etc., will switch to the corresponding tabs in a browser window (counting the tab bars from left-to-right).

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Ernest Bywater

@EzzyB

Just because a bunch of open-source geeks meet at the Peoria Holiday Inn and declare something a "standard" doesn't make it so.


I don't know where they meet, but the people who set .odt as the industry standard are the same ones who set IP, TCP, FTP, USB, etc as the relevant industry standards.

The MS .doc was never set or recognized as a standard by anyone outside of MS and their dedicated brainwashed followers. Even then, MS couldn't work out which of the six .doc formats was the one they wanted to use as the standard, because MS put them all out and they're aren't fully compatible with each other.

Today there is also an industry standard known as DocBook that uses XML and the Open Office XML .docx - but neither of them are the same as the MS versions of .docx or .xml despite having some code similarities.

ISO/IEC 26300 - Open Document Standard
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenDocument

While the Open Document Standard is an accepted International Industry Standard the MS .doc isn't and never has been.

Dominions Son

@EzzyB

Just because a bunch of open-source geeks meet at the Peoria Holiday Inn and declare something a "standard" doesn't make it so.


ODT wasn't the result of just a bunch of open-source geeks meeting in a Holiday in. It is an official standard adopted by the International Standards Organization.

Getting a standard through the ISO process is a long and expensive process and it would not have happened without the backing of major corporations and national governments.

Because of the push for the ISO to adopt ODT and a number of national governments making noises about requiring ISO standard document formats in software RFPs and purchase orders, Microsoft pushed a competing document standard through the ISO.

In the end, both standards were adopted by the ISO.

The MS backed document format standard is the basis of DOCX, but MS being MS, their implementation of the standard contains proprietary extensions to the standard that make DOCX incompatible with any possible competing implementation of the MS backed document standard.

awnlee jawking

@EzzyB

.doc was and industry standard, now it's .docx.


The writers' group I go to has adopted .docx as their interchange standard. At least OpenOffice seems to support it reasonably well nowadays.

AJ

Replies:   graybyrd
awnlee_jawking

@Dominions Son

Getting a standard through the ISO process is a long and expensive process


And it's horrendously frustrating. Every Tom, Dick and Harry wants their own darling included, so the result is standards designed by committee. As a consequence they're often convoluted and self-inconsistent.

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son  ezrick
Jay Cantrell

@Switch Blayde

I have two Macs in the house and have used them for work product since the 1990s.

I'd be glad to help if I can.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Dominions Son

@awnlee_jawking

And it's horrendously frustrating. Every Tom, Dick and Harry wants their own darling included, so the result is standards designed by committee. As a consequence they're often convoluted and self-inconsistent.


ODT didn't seem to have that problem. The MS backed document standard was convoluted and self-inconsistent before MS even submitted it to the ISO.

graybyrd

@awnlee jawking

The writers' group I go to has adopted .docx as their interchange standard.


And that is a choice forced on you by the print publishing houses, which for years have refused to accept manuscripts in anything OTHER than MS Word .docx. And it has to be WORD because MS .docx files are proprietary and closed, so its very difficult to generate compatible .docx files with competing word processors.

So, it is the publishing industry that has mandated that an author buy MS Word to submit 'clean' .docx manuscripts. Your writer's group has chosen to perpetuate that forced choice.

IMHO, Word is an abysmal authoring application. There are others far superior, especially for long page-count works. But that's an argument for another day. Again, the ONLY reason .docx is required, is because MS and the publishing industry that is so heavily invested in MS Word, bar entry to anything else.

For an eye-opening revelation, do a search for how O'Reilly Publishing--the leading publisher of computer technology books--handles its manuscripts and automates its process. Those pages contain infinitely more complex content formatting than ANYTHING a fiction writer will ever encounter.

Dominions Son

@graybyrd

And that is a choice forced on you by the print publishing houses, which for years have refused to accept manuscripts in anything OTHER than MS Word .docx.


They don't take hard copy manuscripts anymore?

graybyrd
Updated:

@EzzyB


Just because a bunch of open-source geeks meet at the Peoria Holiday Inn and declare something a "standard" doesn't make it so.


Sorry, but I have to call you on that statement. It's pure hogwash, and reveals your apparent bias against anything not Microsoft-approved. Again, your creds suffer.

How about the naked, arrogant tactics MS used at the world conference to adopt an open-source standard? They bribed commissioners and forced adoption of a parallel XML variant, which they then modified so no competitors could match it. ODT is a universal, accepted standard. Increasingly, governments OUTSIDE of the MS-ensnared U.S. are requiring their public documents be in ODT format, open to all citizens regardless of what software they use.

graybyrd

@Dominions Son

They don't take hard copy manuscripts anymore?


The agents and publishers prefer digital. Just as you prefer email over snail mail.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@graybyrd

And that is a choice forced on you by the print publishing houses, which for years have refused to accept manuscripts in anything OTHER than MS Word .docx.


No, we decided on .docx because it was the only format we all had in common other than .rtf or .txt.

AJ

awnlee jawking

@graybyrd

It seems to vary. Some publishers insist on digital only. Some prefer hard copy - I guess it saves them having to print off the first three chapters - double-spaced, of course.

AJ

Switch Blayde
Updated:

@The Outsider


Control-click on Mac will bring up the contextual menu for a right-click.


ctl/click brings up a menu, but not one for a right click. It has things like, reload page, open in dashboard, etc.

But I'm sure there's a combination to do the right click. I complained about no "home" and "end" keys. Well, fn/arrow takes you to the top or bottom of the page depending on the arrow and command/arrow does it on a line.

I guess Macs are designed for young people who still have memories. LOL

ETA: I googled it. A two-finger tap on the trackpad is a right click. Haven't tried it yet.

Replies:   graybyrd
Switch Blayde

@Jay Cantrell

I have two Macs in the house and have used them for work product since the 1990s.

I'd be glad to help if I can.


Thanks. I'm sure I'll need it.

Switch Blayde

@Dominions Son

They don't take hard copy manuscripts anymore?


Many (most?) don't. And until they request a full manuscript, they don't even want a doc file because they don't want an attachment. They want it copy/pasted into the body of the email.

graybyrd

@Switch Blayde

ctl/click brings up a menu, but not one for a right click. It has things like, reload page, open in dashboard, etc.


Regarding the "right click" functions: I use an antique Kensington 'Turbo Mouse' trackball (i LOVE it, the ball is like a billiard ball) but that means I have only single (LEFT) button functions with it.

If I hold the CONTROL key while hold/release click, I get ALL of the RIGHT click functions you'd expect. No problems (Mac OSX 10.6.8; if the newer versions have changed, somebody give a shout.)

HOWEVER, be aware that on the Mac OS, the Control and Option (Win=Alt) keys are CONTEXTUAL, meaning that many of the menu choices will CHANGE when you hold the Control or Option keys while selecting menu items with the mouse. Try it. Pull down the Finder (that's the equivalent of Windows Explorer) "File" menu, then while it's open, press the Control key; then the Option key; and see how the listing changes!

Also note that you can see the appropriate SHORTCUT entry for each item (I think this is set via Preferences; the Shortcut display is optional.)

Try it... you'll like it.

Also, notice that each application has DIFFERENT contextual responses, depending on their functions. But also notice that the Mac interface demands all application COMMON functions require the same commands (Open, Close, Save, Save As, Quit, etc) Steve Jobs demanded consistency in the OS. Whether the 'new guard' will honor that ... ?

Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

That's begs another question. I'm using the pad on the laptop, not a mouse. I don't think there is a right click.

On the Mac, you double-click to right click. Or, better yet, get Apple's 'smart mouse'. With that, if you click on one side, it's a Windows 'left click', if you click on the other side, it's a Windows right click. The smart mouse is worth the money, as it miles better than any 'generic' Windows mouse.

As for getting the app icon to appear in the 'task bar', you 'right click' and select the option to add it to the task bar permanently (the default is "no").

Replies:   graybyrd  graybyrd
Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

ODT wasn't the result of just a bunch of open-source geeks meeting in a Holiday in. It is an official standard adopted by the International Standards Organization.

It may be, but I can guarantee, few editors or others will rely on the little used .odt 'standard'. .docx may not be an actual 'standard', but it's what most people use. You aren't obligated to use it, but it makes sense saving files as .docx just so it's easier sending it to people so they can access it.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Crumbly Writer

On the Mac, you double-click to right click.


CW, where did you get that?

On the Mac, you Ctrl-Click to get right click (in the absence of the actual Left/Right button pair), and Double-Click to 'open' or 'activate.'

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

They don't take hard copy manuscripts anymore?

I don't think anyone takes hard copy manuscripts anymore, including readers! If it's a choice between a $20 paperback or a $20 ebook, they'll take the paperback every time, but if there's any kind of price difference, they'll generally save a few bucks over convenience.

graybyrd

@Crumbly Writer

The smart mouse is worth the money, as it miles better than any 'generic' Windows mouse.


Wrong again. ANY two-button USB mouse will work with the Mac. Left-side and Right-side button clicks work just as in Windows. Hell, I've got a couple of Logitech wireless mice: they don't care whether I use'em on Linux, Windows, or Mac. It's all same-o, same-o.

Where are you getting these mis-statements of fact?

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

With my PC, I was able to have multiple Firefox windows open at the same time. I can't seem to duplicate that on my wife's Mac (she has Safari, but I don't think Firefox would be any different).

With my PC I was able to start Firefox (or any other program) from my desktop if I had a shortcut icon on it or go to Start and click on the program name. When it opened, the icon appeared in the bar (task bar?) at the bottom. If I opened Firefox multiple times, they all appeared there and I could choose which one to open.

But with the Mac (at least on my wife's Mac), the only place to launch Safari is the bar on the bottom. Is there a way to have Safari (or any other program) open in multiple windows at the same time?


On the Mac, only one icon appears in the Dock for any app. You can have multiple windows and multiple tabs in each window, but window management is not done with the Dock.

The Mac has something 'Mission Control' which shrinks all your windows and shows them to you on the screen and clicking a window will switch to it and restore all windows to normal size.

'Mission control' can be configured with a short cut key in the system preferences.

You can have an application shortcut on your desktop. It's called 'Alias' in Mac parlance. But since you have the dock being omni-present, it's easier to launch apps from the dock.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Crumbly Writer

Switch, go to your nearest bookstore and pick up "Macs for Seniors" (or something along those lines, I can't remember since I don't have it in front of me). That entire series has some of the easiest to understand and useful instructions on how to use ALL Mac tools!

Crumbly Writer

@graybyrd

On the Mac, you Ctrl-Click to get right click (in the absence of the actual Left/Right button pair), and Double-Click to 'open' or 'activate.

You can do either, but the 'double click' was instituted recently when Apple decided to use a consistent standard for both iOS and Macs. If you haven't been updating (I seem to remember you saying you weren't) then you may not have been exposed to it.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Crumbly Writer

It may be, but I can guarantee, few editors or others will rely on the little used .odt 'standard'. .docx may not be an actual 'standard', but it's what most people use. You aren't obligated to use it, but it makes sense saving files as .docx just so it's easier sending it to people so they can access it.


And when someone sends me a .docx file, I refuse it, then reply with a note that I do not own either MS Word or MS Office, and I refuse to spend good money just to open what to me is, a NON-standard, closed, proprietary file. I do KNOW for a fact that Word is perfectly capable of sending other, more accessible, file formats outside of .docx.

I see no reason to submit to Microsoft domination or user ignorance (I sometimes wonder if the average Word/Office user even KNOWS how to access or use the 'save as' menu.

Yes, LibreOffice, AbiWord, Pages, Bean, Atlantis, and a slew of other applications will open .docx files just fine... now. But as MS users keep insisting, "too much is lost in translation! You MUST use Word/Office to properly open and save .docx files." So... why bother.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@graybyrd

Wrong again. ANY two-button USB mouse will work with the Mac. Left-side and Right-side button clicks work just as in Windows.

How the FUCK is that a misstatement? The smart mouse is better designed, and easier to use, than ANY generic mouse for Windows I've ever encountered, regardless of the manufacturer. If you'd rather stick to inferior products, then by all means, use 3rd party products, but don't call me a liar because you've never encountered something.

If everyone keeps spouting this 'You're all idiots if you do anything other than what I do you can all go suck eggs. People here are searching for answers. If they want propaganda, they can turn to Fox news.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@graybyrd

If I hold the CONTROL key while hold/release click, I get ALL of the RIGHT click functions you'd expect. No problems (Mac OSX 10.6.8; if the newer versions have changed, somebody give a shout.)


I've used Turbo Mouse for the last 26 years. It's the best thing you can get if you have a desktop. Not so much for a laptop.

Download 'Trackball Works' from Kensington and it will give you complete control over all the buttons, the scroll ring and allows you custom acceleration for the pointer and the scroller.

Replies:   graybyrd
Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

I hope it's ok to have this thread in this forum. It has nothing to do with SOL or writing, but there are so many knowledgeable people here I want to tap your brains as I learn the Mac.


You didn't say whether you ordered a laptop or a desktop. Many things are different. With the laptops' giant trackpad, a lot of control can be exercised with it and combination of fingers.

On the desktop you have a regular mouse with right-click. On laptop, clicking with two fingers does the right-click.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Crumbly Writer

@graybyrd

And when someone sends me a .docx file, I refuse it, then reply with a note that I do not own either MS Word or MS Office, and I refuse to spend good money just to open what to me is, a NON-standard, closed, proprietary file. I do KNOW for a fact that Word is perfectly capable of sending other, more accessible, file formats outside of .docx.

Fine. Thanks for telling me, as I'll never send you anything! If someone requests something, it's generally considered good form to not bitch about how it's delivered. It's easy enough to convert from one document type to another, with no loss to your pride. But if you insist that everyone follows every stupid decision you've every made, you wont' have many friends left.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  graybyrd
graybyrd

@Crumbly Writer

Apple decided to use a consistent standard for both iOS and Macs. If you haven't been updating (I seem to remember you saying you weren't) then you may not have been exposed to it.


Oh, Lord! Yeh, I'm not familiar with the iOS corruption. My Mac experience began with the Mac Plus running OS 4.2; hit most every version through OS-9.2.2, then graduated to Intel Macs and OSX 10.6.8. Where I STOPPED. It seems that Apple is easing the desktop machines and OS out of their product picture, while the iOS hand-held products are ascendant.

I'm not alone in thinking that the Mac OS experience (to use a mangled MS expression) peaked with OSX 10.6 "Snow Leopard." It seems to get crazy beyond that. Sort of like diving into the black pit that is Windows 10. Both Apple and Microsoft seem to think that the desktop terminal display is dead, and the pocket fondle-slab is the future. Perhaps. But try laying out a full-spread magazine composition on an iPad... ! Which actually tells us, both corporations are gunning for dollars, at the expense of desktop work and creativity.

Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

It's easy enough to convert from one document type to another,


No always, CW. I've about a hundred old MS Word .doc files that open as gibberish in the latest versions of MS Word, but will open OK in Libre Office. Even the ones that do open in other programs often open with faulty formatting if one of the programs is full proprietary. LO opens MS Word .docx, and MS Word opens .odt yet when opened in the other there's issues with the format because of the way MS Word handles the formatting doesn't always convert over.

As to demanding someone send you something in a particular format, it depends on who wants what done. If you want me to edit something for you it's fair for me to say Send it to me in this format and if you send me something unsolicited it's fair for me to set the format to use or ignore it. If I want something from you, it's fair for you to tell me what format you want.

graybyrd

@Crumbly Writer

It's easy enough to convert from one document type to another, with no loss to your pride. But if you insist that everyone follows every stupid decision you've every made, you wont' have many friends left.


Perhaps. But if I sent you a "name.md.txt" document, and insist that you mark it up and return it in the same format, I think you'll see my point.

Yes, I can open and read and convert .docx files, but that's not the point. Too often I'm requested to WORK and RETURN the .docx file, and then get hit with a bitch that "it's not PROPER .docx, because you're not using WORD to modify/save it." So, I developed a "go piss up a rope" attitude. If .docx is so proprietary and arcane that a LibreOffice version of .docx is NOT satisfactory in the MS universe... I won't play that game.

We have dropped all MS product use in this household, since MS has chosen to invalidate our existing installed Win7 base. Grumpy? Hell, yes... MS made worthless an entire collection of hardware and software. So... we wiped the drives and installed Linux. And .odt is the 'lingua franca' of Linux... NOT .docx. So if you insist that I work with one of your documents, send it in .odt, the standard of the planet. MS has lost that war.

graybyrd
Updated:

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)


Download 'Trackball Works' from Kensington and it will give you complete control over all the buttons, the scroll ring and allows you custom acceleration for the pointer and the scroller.


Yes, I've done that on two widely separated occasions. Unfortunately, 'something' in my kludge of system additions, etc. causes Trackball Works to go unstable. Sad, because those functions are invaluable. I'll take another look, but they stopped updating it long ago... so I'm not too hopeful. Nonetheless, even with only the basic functions of a roller ball and a single-button device, the Kensington is bloody marvelous as a point & click device. With the iMate adapters I can use the Kensingtons on any desktop system.

EDIT to add: Found & downloaded MouseWorks 3 (required for Intel Macs) and found it will not recognize my Turbo Mouse. It's the earlier version (Model#64210 with the HUGE beige ball... just almost the size of a billiard ball & same weight. The MouseWorks pane will NOT recognize that model. Now I remember: that's what killed the deal right after I adopted this Intel Mini.
Otherwise the Turbo Mouse works great... like a plain, one-button Apple mouse.

graybyrd

@Switch Blayde

I'm a bit late with this, but here is a very handy Apple site with the Mac keyboard shortcuts. Nice reference to print out:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201236

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde
Updated:

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)


You can have multiple windows and multiple tabs in each window, but window management is not done with the Dock.


I figured out how to have multiple Safari windows at the same time. And I figured out how to shrink the window size (using bottom right corner). But one overlayed the other and I couldn't separate them.

I guess I'll use both Safari and Firefox when I get my Mac. There's only so much I can do on my wife's. She doesn't want me to "screw" hers up.

Switch Blayde

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

You didn't say whether you ordered a laptop or a desktop.


It's a laptop.

And it's one of the new 15" ones where the top row of keys is replaced with some sort of sliding thing that changes depending on which app you have open.

Switch Blayde

@graybyrd

I'm a bit late with this, but here is a very handy Apple site with the Mac keyboard shortcuts. Nice reference to print out:


Thanks. I'll surely read and use it.

Switch Blayde

I'd like to ask a favor of y'all (did I use y'all right here? LOL)

I've lived through fights between OS2 and NT, the Mac and PC, MS and everyone else, etc. It's a no-win. It's like arguing over religion and politics.

I really need help converting from the PC to Mac so I'm depending on people's guidance here. Simply, how to rather than which is better.

Thanks.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@Switch Blayde

Simply, how to rather than which is better.


Seriously, then: follow an earlier recommendation. Go to Amazon and find the "Senior Guide" for the version of OSX that's installed on your new laptop. It will pay for itself many times over. It will vastly increase your ability to get the most out of your new system. The book will be loaded with "AH-HA!" moments that will have you dancing around the room.

My wife has a row of them on her bookshelf, that guided her through Windows when we still used Win7. It made her happy; got me off the hook; and I think it maybe even saved our marriage. So, just Do It.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@graybyrd

Go to Amazon and find the "Senior Guide" for the version of OSX


Switch: Go to Amazon and search for this title:

Mac OS X El Capitan for Seniors

(Assuming that El Capitan is the version installed on your new laptop. The "Seniors" book for Sierra isn't listed yet. Sierra is the latest OSX. Book listing I saw run about $25)

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@graybyrd

Switch: Go to Amazon and search for this title:

Mac OS X El Capitan for Seniors


We're up to Sierra now.

here is a link to that:

https://www.amazon.com/macOS-Sierra-Seniors-computer-Computer/dp/9059054431

ezrick
Updated:

@awnlee_jawking

And it's horrendously frustrating. Every Tom, Dick and Harry wants their own darling included, so the result is standards designed by committee. As a consequence they're often convoluted and self-inconsistent.


Exactly. My favorite example is OpenGL. In Windows NT 4.0 Microsoft was a huge supporter of Open GL. But game makers and gamers wanted more.

So MS took those suggestions to the next OpenGL meeting (undoubtably at that same Peoria Holiday Inn) and proposed it.

Seeing as it was proposed by Microsoft the response from the International Standards Committee for the Open Graphics Language was, "OPEN SOURCE 4 EVAH!" Basically they'd rather kill OpenGL than take suggestions, and even programming help, from Microsoft.

DirectX was born. Now that is the standard.

Switch Blayde

Got my MacBook today.
Wish me luck.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

Best of luck.

Although, even though the Mac for me is second nature, most people that I know that moved to it got the hang of it in a day or two.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde
Updated:

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)


Although, even though the Mac for me is second nature, most people that I know that moved to it got the hang of it in a day or two.


I'm going to be the exception. I'll blame it on my age. LOL

I tried to install Google Chrome last night and got nowhere. I expected to see the Windows run/save and take it from there. I have no idea what happened. Will call Apple tech support after going through the forum threads.

So I've been able to use my wife's Mac for the past couple of weeks to get on the Internet and stuff. To do that I was up and running right away. But now I'm trying to do real stuff. Setting up my folder hierarchies, installing software, etc. This has always been the part I thought I'd have trouble with.

But thanks.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)
Updated:

@Switch Blayde


I tried to install Google Chrome last night and got nowhere.


On the Mac software that you don't get from the App Store comes as '.dmg' files usually.

Downloads end up in the 'Downloads' folder. You should find the .dmg file there, it's named googlechrome.dmg.

A .dmg file is a disk image. You double click it to open it. When it opens you'll see a window with the chrome icon and under it a link to the applications folder.

Drag the Google chrome icon to the Applications folder in the same window. That will copy Chrome to your Applications folder. Done.

Personally, my default browser is actually Safari, the default browser for the Mac. I'm kind of allergic to all the tracking that google does, so I stay away from its software.

Edit to add: Make sure you eject the google chrome disk after you're done copying chrome to the applications folder. From a window in the Finder click the eject icon next to google chrome in the side bar and after that you can trash the .dmg file.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

Edit to add: Make sure you eject the google chrome disk after you're done copying chrome to the applications folder. From a window in the Finder click the eject icon next to google chrome in the side bar and after that you can trash the .dmg file.


I saw the dmg file in an icon on the bar at the bottom. I had no idea what that was. I dragged it to the trash can.

What do you mean "eject the disk?" I downloaded it from the Internet. In fact, my laptop doesn't have a CD drive.

Speaking of ejecting, I ran into another problem last night. Windows has something in the bar at the bottom to safely remove hardware, like thumb drives. I used to use it for my external hard drive too before powering it down (I thought to flush any unwritten buffers). The Apple Tech Support guy told me to drag the drive icon on my desktop to the trash can to do that. It didn't. It said it was being used by another program. I haven't tried a thumb drive yet.

Anyway, thanks so much. But I don't want you to spend unnecessary time on my learning curve. I'll use Apple's Tech Support for that. I may still ask questions here that Apple can't help me with. For instance, the Calibre and LibreOffice stuff.

Thanks so much. I really appreciate it.

btw, Lazeez, have you seen the new bar that replaces the top row of keys on the keyboard. It's cool. It changes depending on what application you're in. For example, as I'm typing this it's suggesting words. Kind of stupid for a touch typist, but cool. And the power button recognizes your fingerprint like the iPhone. I haven't got it to work yet, but it keeps saying "try again" next to it. If you haven't seen it, it's worth a trip to your local Apple Store.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

I saw the dmg file in an icon on the bar at the bottom. I had no idea what that was. I dragged it to the trash can.

What do you mean "eject the disk?" I downloaded it from the Internet. In fact, my laptop doesn't have a CD drive.


The .dmg file is a disk image or think of it as a virtual disk. Once double clicked it's mounted and used as a disk. You can create those yourself and have them encrypted for sensitive files.

Once mounted it does need to be unmounted/ejected when done with.

btw, Lazeez, have you seen the new bar that replaces the top row of keys on the keyboard. It's cool. It changes depending on what application you're in. For example, as I'm typing this it's suggesting words. Kind of stupid for a touch typist, but cool. And the power button recognizes your fingerprint like the iPhone. I haven't got it to work yet, but it keeps saying "try again" next to it. If you haven't seen it, it's worth a trip to your local Apple Store.


I rarely use laptops and my laptop is an old Mac book Air from few years ago. I've yet to try the touch bar.

Did you set up your fingerprint in the security control panel? You'll need to do that for the print sensor to work.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde
Updated:

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)


Did you set up your fingerprint in the security control panel?


Yes. But it doesn't work when you power the computer on. You need to log in with your password because it needs to get at your settings or something first.

The Apple tech guy walked me through the Chrome installation. It was so simple I thought I needed to do more. But for more complex software (I'm assuming LibreOffice and Calibre are more complex) there are other steps to install it. I really liked the window that popped up that allowed me to drag the Chrome icon to the Applications one.

But I don't remember doing an "eject."

I also learned how to use Finder to make it look like Windows Explorer. That's helping me build my folders and migrate data from my external hard drive to the Mac. And I learned that my external hard drive is in a format (MS-DOS FAT) that will allow the Mac to write to it.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

But for more complex software (I'm assuming LibreOffice and Calibre are more complex) there are other steps to install it.


Nope, both exact same process. Mount disk image, copy app and dispose of the disk image.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

Nope, both exact same process. Mount disk image, copy app and dispose of the disk image


Yep, I installed LibreOffice and that's what it did. And it didn't ask me questions like where I want files to be. The Apple tech said Mac determines that.

Replies:   mman0114
mman0114

@Switch Blayde

A tip as well for opening up programs is to use spotlight search to get to your app in a quick manner. Go to settings > keyboard > shortcuts find spotlight and check the show spotlight search, for me I have it set to command + space. So you hit cmd + space and then type in the first few letters of the app and hit enter and it's open. Makes it very quick to open up apps.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@mman0114

A tip as well for opening up programs is to use spotlight search to get to your app in a quick manner


An Apple tech support guy just told me that today. I've been clicking on the application icons in the doc at the bottom of the screen or using Launchpad.

Thanks for the tip.

richardshagrin

I see Mac in a title, I think of Macaroni and Cheese. Of course, MC (for main character) reminds me of Macaroni and Cheese. I guess I am just hungry.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@richardshagrin

I see Mac in a title, I think of Macaroni and Cheese. Of course, MC (for main character) reminds me of Macaroni and Cheese. I guess I am just hungry.


now that's a post to chew on!

Switch Blayde
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater


I'm not familiar with Safari, but with most browsers when you highlight a site in your bookmarks you can usually 'right click' to get a window with options, one of which is usually 'Open in new window' as well as 'Open in new tab.'


I was looking for a post someone made about FreeCell and came upon this. I now have the answer. With Safari, there's a plus sign at the far top right. Click on it and you get another tab (it's hard to see the tab, but once you know it's there you can find it). A command/N opens Safari in a new window.

Why did I even bother replying to this?

*sticks chest out*

See, Lazeez, even this old dog can learn new tricks. 😁

ETA: I had to try out the smiley face. In this app, it's one of the things that shows up on that magical bar that replaces the top row of keys on the keyboard.

Switch Blayde

So the Mac doesn't have problems? Really?

I've been having a problem for the past week or longer. Sometimes when I boot, the clock says either Dec, 2040 or Dec, 2037 (did that once). I know when it happens because the certificates don't work (too old for the "current" date). By the time I get a Tech Support guy on the phone it corrects itself.

After speaking to several Tech Support guys they had me talk to a 2nd level guy. He said my new MacBook Pro must have a problem with the clock and told me to go to the Apple store and demand an exchange.

Guess what? My wife just had a similar problem, also with the Dec, 2040 date. When I called Tech Support again and they spoke to 2nd level people, now they say it's a known problem with the OS and replacing my Mac won't fix it.

We turned off the automatic clock hoping that fixes the problem until they fix the OS.

So if you have a problem with the clock on your Mac, you're not alone.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd
Updated:

@Switch Blayde


So the Mac doesn't have problems? Really?


There have been a number of 'teething' problems with the new Sierra OS. One by one, they should get fixed with updates. Meanwhile, you can reset the clock with System Preferences. Takes just a sec...

Patience...

Switch Blayde

So you don't get the wrong impression with this post, I'm enjoying my Mac and am comfortable using it. I would buy it again. But...

My last post was about an error I experienced in the OS. Unchecking automatic date got around it.

But I was doing something (forget the application) and my system went into a loop. I had a spinning colored circle and couldn't close the app. I ended up doing a command/option/escape (Apple's version of Windows Task Manager) to force the app closed.

Last night I was writing in Word. I have the new MacBook Pro that has that neat bar at the top of the keyboard that changes with each application. It's really cool. But I hit the Siri "button" on it by accident. A Siri window popped up. I had very little control of my mouse but managed to get it on the x in the window. It closed, but then I lost my mouse completely. And then my system rebooted.

I can't remember the last time Windows crashed on my old laptop (other than when there was a disk error in sector 128 which killed it).

OS crashing. Applications going into a loop. Bug in the OS.

Hmm, Apple's marketing must be outstanding.

Replies:   graybyrd  REP  Crumbly Writer
graybyrd

@Switch Blayde

I think we recommended a while back that you order the "Seniors" guidebook for the Mac, Sierra edition. That particular book, because it has the most straight-forward, lucid explanations of how to get the most from your system, and avoid common problems.

I recall the multi-pound volumes published for Windows apps, such as Word, and I've spent $$ on O'Reilly books to avoid Windows OS gremlins, glitches, and annoyances.

Just sayin' ...

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@graybyrd

the "Seniors" guidebook for the Mac,


Don't need it. Lazeez was right. It doesn't take long to get up to speed. I'm very comfortable using the Mac.

The problems I've run into have nothing to do with a learning curve.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd
Updated:

@Switch Blayde


The problems I've run into have nothing to do with a learning curve.


In that case, you're pretty much alone in your misery, and being a bit unfair with the system. That said, I did stop with OS-X "Snow Leopard" for the same reason that many Windows users have stopped upgrading at Windows 7. We jumped off the upgrade escalator because it seemed to be carrying us where we didn't wish to go.

Good luck.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
REP

@Switch Blayde

I can't remember the last time Windows crashed on my old laptop (other than when there was a disk error in sector 128 which killed it).


Windows crashes are an almost daily occurrence for me.

Computer software isn't the only thing buggy as all get out. I cooked some carrots in my microwave last night. When the cook time ended, the microwave shut off as normal. When I opened the door to remove the carrots, the microwave started running. Now it is off with the door shut and runs with it open.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@REP

I opened the door to remove the carrots, the microwave started running. Now it is off with the door shut and runs with it open.

Sounds like it needs a good thumping and a couple of thwacks. If that doesn't work, try a drop-kick. ;-}

Replies:   REP
REP

@graybyrd

I threatened it with a bigger hammer. Went to Home Depot to buy one and came out with a new microwave. :)

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

OS crashing. Applications going into a loop. Bug in the OS.

I'd guess it's either a bug in Siri (still a relatively new tool on the Macs, but your best bet is to contact a genius bar and have them walk you thru whatever you were trying in their genius bar (if you're relatively close to one). They may not know everything, but they're very good at walking you through stuff (though you generally have to purchase 'training minutes' or some such nonsense—introduced about a couple of years ago).

Crumbly Writer

@graybyrd

In that case, you're pretty much alone in your misery, and being a bit unfair with the system. That said, I did stop with OS-X "Snow Leopard" for the same reason that many Windows users have stopped upgrading at Windows 7. We jumped off the upgrade escalator because it seemed to be carrying us where we didn't wish to go.

Most gamers jumped off the upgrade escalator because the more recent changes (forgot which one in particular) really slowed down the system efficiency, since they instituted more "Windows like" file and name handling. It makes the systems easier to use, but games Hate it!

I got my Mac laptop just after they made the switch, so I never questioned the speed difference (even though I'd used earlier Macs).

Crumbly Writer

@REP

Went to Home Depot to buy one and came out with a new microwave. :)

They 'upgraded' your order. Just like with your microwave, you got the special 'sun-tan special' model upgrade. 'D

Switch Blayde

Lazeez (or anyone else),

Got an email today from Apple to update to macOS High Sierra.

First I thought it was not from Apple because that's not how they notify me of updates, but it came from News@InsideApple.Apple.com so it must be from Apple.

Any idea what this is? Should I click the "Upgrade now" button and upgrade? Is it beta?

Thanks.

Switch Blayde

@Switch Blayde

macOS High Sierra


Never mind. Called Apple Tech Support. It's their new operating system.

But it was released about 3 weeks ago so I'll wait for others to flush the bugs out.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
AmigaClone

@Switch Blayde

My recommendation is to not use the links in the email, instead going directly to Apple's website.

While it might be a real email, there is also the (slight?) possibility that the address was spoofed and the link would do something undesirable.

Replies:   sejintenej
Geek of Ages

You wouldn't go to their web site. Just open the App Store and it's the big, obvious banner.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@Geek of Ages

Just open the App Store and it's the big, obvious banner.


That's what I was going to do. The Tech Support rep said it's in the Apple Store's Features.

Replies:   Bondi Beach
sejintenej

@AmigaClone

While it might be a real email, there is also the (slight?) possibility that the address was spoofed and the link would do something undesirable.

VERY definitely. I had an email stating that I was almost up to my limit on iCloud and demanding that I buy more space. Turned out to be spam - they had mis-stated my existing use and limit. I didn't buy!
I should have spotted it immediately (but didn't)- I have two major email addresses and the message came to the address which Apple does not know

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

Never mind. Called Apple Tech Support. It's their new operating system.

But it was released about 3 weeks ago so I'll wait for others to flush the bugs out.

I've done each of the recent upgrades (Sierra, High Sierra, etc.) and I've been happy with each (i.e. I encountered no problems). The initial problem was, with all the new features a few iterations back, there was a performance degradation, but since that was my first Macbook, it didn't really make a difference because I couldn't compare it to previous game performance. But after that, the updates have just added extra features and the slowdown only prompted Apple to provide a separate games processor for future devices.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Crumbly Writer

@sejintenej

VERY definitely. I had an email stating that I was almost up to my limit on iCloud and demanding that I buy more space. Turned out to be spam - they had mis-stated my existing use and limit. I didn't buy!

I keep getting those types of notices, only it's to my "NoGoodNick" address, and the copy is addressed to "Frank". There's no WAY I'm going to fall for Spam when they can't even figure out who they're talking to.

I must have received well over 50 "Immediate action required!" messages from the same place (though they used different email sources).

Replies:   sejintenej
Bondi Beach

@Switch Blayde

Just open the App Store and it's the big, obvious banner.

That's what I was going to do. The Tech Support rep said it's in the Apple Store's Features.


As of today, it's in both places.

bb

Switch Blayde

@Crumbly Writer

I've done each of the recent upgrades (Sierra, High Sierra,


After spending a career in IT, I don't like to use new software. When I was at American Express, I had no choice because we needed the features (IBM put many in for us). But we also found the bugs. It's better for someone else to get the bugs.

So how long have you been running High Sierra?

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

So how long have you been running High Sierra?


I've been running High Sierra since it came out. No problems encountered. We're actually up to 10.13.1, so the first bug fix already came out about 4 days ago.

It's actually a very impressive update technically. If you have a Mac with an SSD boot drive, it actually replaces your file system in place as it upgrades the software. I've never even heard about any other company doing that successfully before. It goes from HFS+ to AFS all without you noticing anything. They did it last year with iOS 10, they changed the file system on all iPhones and iPads during the upgrade and this year they did it to Macs. I haven't heard of anybody losing anything.

But, as with every major upgrade, don't forget to backup before you go ahead.

Replies:   Bondi Beach
sejintenej

@Crumbly Writer

I must have received well over 50 "Immediate action required!" messages from the same place (though they used different email sources).

Yes! Looking at the last eight I received today

six claimed to have return addresses of
USA 75 Arlington Street, Suite 500, Boston MA02116

one was 5165 Corporate Way Ste 2-9092, Valley Cottage, NY10989

and one from
Assure Hair, 2630Townsgate Road, Suite1, Westlake village CA91361

I investigated one of these in more detail and found that the site was registered to an address in Paris which I have seen all too often. That address is linked to a company in Germany which has been behind what are apparent subsidiaries sending many spam messages in three languages (to date) and behind all those is an address in Mahe, Seychelles about which I have reservations.
The other major problem senders link back to a Panama company whose apparent aim is to hide the true ownership of senders.

I once got inundated by emails addressed by one of the Ivy League Universities giving confidential acceptance details to would-be students. These were being misdirected to my email address by a well-known American ISP who ignored all my complaints. Looking the ISP up on WHOIS they had a named abuse person so I telephoned him at his home in I think Colorado at hopefully 4am his time and threatened to publish the messages en clair. He was not very pleased to be woken up! Three days later the messages stopped.

Bondi Beach

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

I've been running High Sierra since it came out. No problems encountered. We're actually up to 10.13.1, so the first bug fix already came out about 4 days ago.


Just completed an upgrade to High Sierra on my mid-2011 MacBook Air without incident.

bb

Switch Blayde
Updated:

Going against my gut feel (and I guess years of experiencing software bugs), I upgraded to High Sierra. The first time I opened Word I got a weird message. (It's actually for all Office products).

I just spent hours on the phone with Apple Tech Support. The first person actually hung up on me while she was supposably checking with MicroSoft. She had my phone number in case we got disconnected, but I guess that isn't used if they want to disconnect.

The second Apple Tech Support person was more helpful, but she has a Windows machine at home, not a Mac. I thought that was interesting. And she basically said they don't call Microsoft so I don't know what the first one was talking about.

The other problem with upgrading is when you call Tech Support, the first question they ask is if you're running High Sierra. The waIt time on hold when you say yes is incredibly long.

Okay, I'm done bitching. But I just wasted about 3 hours of my life (and who knows how many more I have left).

Replies:   Michael Loucks
Michael Loucks

@Switch Blayde

Going against my gut feel (and I guess years of experiencing software bugs), I upgraded to High Sierra. The first time I opened Word I got a weird message. (It's actually for all Office products).


I've had no problem with Office 365 on High Sierra, including beta versions. I am using the 'Office Insider' checkbox to get early releases.

Crumbly Writer

@Michael Loucks

I've had no problem with Office 365 on High Sierra, including beta versions. I am using the 'Office Insider' checkbox to get early releases.

And I'm still running Windows 2010 on my High Sierra Mac Laptop. I also have LO and OO installed, though I don't run them that often (only when someone sends me a file I can't process otherwise).

No problems with anything I've tried to run yet.

My IOS devices, however, are a different story, as Apple is purging their app store, meaning if you upgrade, you can no longer access all the apps you legally purchased.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@Crumbly Writer

Apple is purging their app store, meaning if you upgrade, you can no longer access all the apps you legally purchased.


What does that mean?

Switch Blayde

@Michael Loucks

I've had no problem with Office 365 on High Sierra, including beta versions.


I'm running "Word (Excel, etc.) for the Mac" version 15.39.

My rant wasn't with High Sierra. It was with the first Tech Support I encountered (and the long wait times for both calls).

The problem was that when I brought Word up the first time, I got an "i" pop-up. I didn't know what to do so I called Tech Support. She had me do some things and left me hanging, eventually hanging up on me.

After I did what she told me to do, every time I opened Word or Excel it also opened Auto Updater. I checked the "notify me of updates" box but didn't go any further. So every time I opened Word, I had to close Auto Updater first to access it.

As it turned out, I had updates for Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and OneNote (whatever that is). When I did the updates, Auto Updater no longer opened when I opened Word or Excel.

I don't know if High Sierra required the updates for the Office products. I don't know if the updates were always waiting for me (which was a good thing to do the updates). I really don't know what was going on, and either did the Apple folks. In fact, my research said Auto Updater came with Office, yet I had to install it.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

Apple is purging their app store, meaning if you upgrade, you can no longer access all the apps you legally purchased.



What does that mean?


Apple deprecated 32 bit apps for iOS with iOS 9 and completely dropped support for them with iOS 11.

So if you had bought/downloaded an app that was 32 bit and was never updated by its developer to work in 64 bit, then once you install iOS 11 on your iPhone or iPad, the 32 bit app stopped working.

Switch Blayde

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

once you install iOS 11 on your iPhone or iPad, the 32 bit app stopped working.


Thanks.

That same thing happened to me with games I bought on a Windows system. Didn't work on the new system.

Replies:   helmut_meukel
Switch Blayde

Does anyone running High Sierra notice it takes longer to shut down than the previous OS?

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

Does anyone running High Sierra notice it takes longer to shut down than the previous OS?


You shut down your computer? I haven't done that in years, so I don't know.

Why do you shut down?

helmut_meukel
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

That same thing happened to me with games I bought on a Windows system. Didn't work on the new system.


I beg to differ.

Apple dropped support for 32 bit applications, so no 32 bit app worked on the new system.

Windows however is backward compatible, older apps usually work on the new system. But there are some system routines callable from any program which return OS System version numbers and service pack number. This is intended to let the program stop gracefully if it uses some functionality not provided by prior versions.

So the programmer can call these system routines directly after program start and show a message like

"This app needs at least Windows XP Service Pack 2. Please upgrade your system to run this App!"

When an app doesn't run after a Windows upgrade then the programmer has

either

forgotten to check for 'actual OS version or higher' (actual = version while programming), so not covering for future versions

or

deliberately omitted higher versions, so they can sell you an update with only one change: the OS version check.

HM.

Edited to add:
Really old windows programs (16 bit versions) don't run on the newest Windows versions any more, Microsoft finally dropped the ancient 16 bit subsystem.

Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

Apple is purging their app store, meaning if you upgrade, you can no longer access all the apps you legally purchased.

What does that mean?

What Lazeez said about 32 vs. 64 bit files, but it goes farther than that, as they've also deemed many apps to be not 'Apple worthy' for a variety of reasons. Thus the apps work fine on older devices—working fine on IOS 11—yet you're unable to install them on a newer device—until someone manages to jailbreak the latest IOS version. Thus many of us 'old timers' keep both our newest devices, plus the older ones with many of our favorite apps, having to switch devices based on which apps we wish to use.

Crumbly Writer

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

You shut down your computer? I haven't done that in years, so I don't know.

Why do you shut down?

On Windows, if you don't shut down every single night, the OS becomes wonky and grinds to a halt over time (typically only a couple days). With Apple devices, the typical behavior is to NEVER shut down unless there's something seriously wrong with your device.

Michael Loucks

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

Apple deprecated 32 bit apps for iOS with iOS 9 and completely dropped support for them with iOS 11.

So if you had bought/downloaded an app that was 32 bit and was never updated by its developer to work in 64 bit, then once you install iOS 11 on your iPhone or iPad, the 32 bit app stopped working.


An important point - they announced this long in advance, and gave repeated and ample warnings about the coming deprecation. Nobody should have been surprised about this.

One of the main reasons was to remove the 32-bit interfaces from the OS, thus simplifying it and removing all the undiscovered holes in the 32-bit code.

I made the conscious decision to go forward even though several apps I used would stop working. I found good alternatives which had received regular updates over the previous few years. The apps I lost mostly hadn't been updated in years.

Capt. Zapp

@helmut_meukel

Windows however is backward compatible, older apps usually work on the new system. But there are some system routines callable from any program which return OS System version numbers and service pack number.


I have MANY older programs which have not worked after upgrades, most since upgrading from WinXP. I had a wonderful voicemail system that worked with WIN95 that I used for home and business that quit working after I upgraded and no new drivers were available. Couldn't even get it to work in compatibility mode or with winbox. I currently have one laptop set up with Vista (oldest OS I could put on it) to run my RCA to PC video transfer software because it WILL NOT run on anything newer.

Replies:   helmut_meukel
Capt. Zapp

@Crumbly Writer

On Windows, if you don't shut down every single night, the OS becomes wonky and grinds to a halt over time (typically only a couple days).


Not true. I have towers that have been running for seven years and only been shut down when the power went out.

Replies:   sejintenej
Bondi Beach
Updated:

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)


You shut down your computer? I haven't done that in years, so I don't know.

Why do you shut down?


Old machine running Sierrra. Fan working overtime after two or three days. Potential mechanical issues.

A short rest and a glass of water and it's fine again.

bb

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Bondi Beach

Old machine running Sierrra. Fan working overtime after two or three days. Potential mechanical issues.


Fan constantly high means some software that's overusing the system. Use the activity monitor to identify the software that's working the system too hard.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Crumbly Writer

On Windows, if you don't shut down every single night, the OS becomes wonky and grinds to a halt over time (typically only a couple days).


One of the causes may be that Windows is inefficient at clearing down virtual memory, and that builds up over time. My XP machine gets hammered pretty hard but I usually only need to reboot it a couple of times a week.

I use the free version of Avast anti-virus and over time it grabs more and more memory and gets slower and slower. The reboot cures that too, but sometimes I need to manually restart it from the services menu.

A lesser problem is that my router has been customised by my ISP to work out the optimum transmission speeds for my connection. Over time this gets slower and slower and isn't cured by a simple reboot. I have to switch off my router for at least 15 minutes. That causes my ISP to allocate a new connection when I restart it, and it starts the optimum rate calculation from scratch.

So when you're driving your Windows car and it gets slower and slower, stop, switch everything off, then restart it and it should perform to spec again. Only don't try it in the fast lane of the motorway :)

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
awnlee jawking

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

On my moribund Dell, on which unpublished parts of 'Evelyn' languish, the fan seemed to respond to ambient room temperatures too, running faster on very hot days. Unless I was hallucinating, as seems to be increasingly common.

AJ

helmut_meukel

@Capt. Zapp

I had a wonderful voicemail system that worked with WIN95 that I used for home and business that quit working after I upgraded and no new drivers were available.


Ahh, but Win95 (and 98 and ME) were mainly 16 bit systems and internally totally different from NT especially kernel and drivers. Did it work then with NT4.0?
Another problem with all WinNT based OS (NT3.51, NT4, Win2000, XP, Vista, ... Windows 10) were device drivers for specialized hardware. Writing device drivers for NT was at least 10 times harder than for Win95, so for many cards or other hardware the manufacturers didn't bother.
Due to the security concept of NT, direct access of application programs to the hardware was impossible, the app had to call system routines. This slowed down the interaction of application program with the hardware.
Microsoft tried to make it easier by changing the interfaces for one or the other class of devices with each new version, rendering the drivers for the old OS unusable with the new OS and the manufacturers didn't provide new drivers for older hardware.

HM.

BTW, all my self-written old VB5 and VB6 programs still run on Windows 10. Because Win10 lacks the older DLLs used by VB5 they need a full setup, while the VB6 support DLLs come still with the OS so copying the Exe is sufficient for most VB6 programs.

sejintenej

@Capt. Zapp

On Windows, if you don't shut down every single night, the OS becomes wonky and grinds to a halt over time (typically only a couple days).

Not true. I have towers that have been running for seven years and only been shut down when the power went out.

Well, my W10 has to be rebooted every 2 sometimes 3 days. I did notice that if I am running Explorer only then periods appear longer that when I am also running Mozilla Firefox

Dominions Son

@sejintenej

Well, my W10 has to be rebooted every 2 sometimes 3 days.


I only need to reboot my Win7 64 bit system once or twice a month.

Grant

@Crumbly Writer

On Windows, if you don't shut down every single night, the OS becomes wonky and grinds to a halt over time (typically only a couple days).

Oh please.
My Win Vista & Win10 systems are only shut down when there is a power failure, and only re-booted when needed after a major update.

Grant

@sejintenej

Well, my W10 has to be rebooted every 2 sometimes 3 days. I did notice that if I am running Explorer only then periods appear longer that when I am also running Mozilla Firefox

I still use IE and as in my previous post, my systems aren't shut down nor re-booted on a regular basis. Re-boots these day are very 2-4months, depending on updates.

Ernest Bywater

@helmut_meukel

Windows however is backward compatible, older apps usually work on the new system.


Very few do, because when Microsoft code a new version of Windows they usually make changes to stop the older program working. There have been a few cases where they did allow older programs to run, such as W2K and XP as well as Win 7 and Win 10, but not even the older Microsoft programs will work on newer versions of Windows outside of those groupings. It's called planned obsolescence. You can get them to run in virtual environment and with some of the later versions of Windows (but not all) they did include some partial virtual environments to run some of the software, but you needed a full blown virtual environment to run it all. This is especially true of the 32 bit programs on the 64 bit versions of Windows.

Replies:   Grant
Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

On Windows, if you don't shut down every single night, the OS becomes wonky and grinds to a halt over time (typically only a couple days).


This isn't as true now as it used to be. However, the cause for the problem was Windows never really cleared out the Virtual Memory system (called Paging Files on some systems) when a program closed down. This resulted in the file growing beyond what the system could manage and showing full, despite most of the memory allocation being empty. There are 3rd party programs you can get to do this for you (and they've been around for a couple of decades), and the latest versions of Windows are now clearing the virtual memory properly.

Switch Blayde

@helmut_meukel

Windows however is backward compatible, older apps usually work on the new system.


It was Duke Nuke 'em or something like that. It didn't work after the upgrade, and I believe it had to do with 16 bit. Also a golf game I had.

Switch Blayde

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

Why do you shut down?


I've always shut it down. Even when it's for a couple of hours while I'm watching TV. I've always done that.

I'm using a laptop (MacBook Pro). It has a life expectancy. When it's shut down the parts aren't being used. Doesn't that make it last longer?

Ernest Bywater

@Switch Blayde

It has a life expectancy. When it's shut down the parts aren't being used. Doesn't that make it last longer?


The biggest wear and tear on a computer is when it's powered up with the powering down being the next biggest wear incident. The only time any part of a computer will have any wear close to those two is if something happens to have the hard drive thrashing. The main wear comes from the power surge through the components when it powers up, and the next is the physical hard drive platters having wear on the bearings while they get up to speed or slow down from full operation. Most computers last longer if lest on - that's the physical aspects side of the hardware.

Replies:   Grant
Grant

@Ernest Bywater

Very few do, because when Microsoft code a new version of Windows they usually make changes to stop the older program working. There have been a few cases where they did allow older programs to run, such as W2K and XP as well as Win 7 and Win 10, but not even the older Microsoft programs will work on newer versions of Windows outside of those groupings. It's called planned obsolescence.

What complete and utter rubbish.

The single biggest impediment to the development of Windows over the years has been the fact that they have continued to support older software. If they had just abandoned it, we would have had the present operating system's capabilities & reliability 15-20 years ago.
The combination of installed user base, and many extremely large users (private and government) that relied what were already outdated features & functions (as well as programmes) meant M$ had to continue to support those programmes even though abandoning them would have made the development of new Operating systems orders of magnitude easier, not to mention much more secure.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Grant

@Ernest Bywater

The main wear comes from the power surge through the components when it powers up, and the next is the physical hard drive platters having wear on the bearings while they get up to speed or slow down from full operation. Most computers last longer if lest on - that's the physical aspects side of the hardware.

Turning on and off is what has the greatest detrimental effect on a electronic devices longevity other than operating in a hostile environment (ie dusty, hot, or both).

However the wear isn't from the "power surge" when powering up. It's from the thermal stress of rapidly heating up & cooling down.

And unless the HDD uses a fluid bearing, the wear on the bearings during startup & shut down would be less than that when running for extended periods. Given the low rotational speed of HDDs (10,000rpm for enterprise, 7,200rpm for higher performance general use drives, 5,400rpm or less for low performance/green drives) combined with the levels of quality control for such bearings, the wear when running for extended periods could best be described as minimal.

Ernest Bywater

@Grant

The single biggest impediment to the development of Windows over the years has been the fact that they have continued to support older software.


The single biggest impediment to MS Windows has been their refusal or inability to rewrite the code to eliminate past holes instead of just adding onto the old code. The problem with making the older software run on the newer versions is they don't use the industry standard command sets, and they keep changing the sets between most versions. That means the commands to do certain actions coded into the older software aren't recognised or run by the newer operating system. I have copies of every version of MS Word from Word 1 up to MS Office XP, and copies of every version of Windows from Win 3 up to win XP and my son has Win 7 and Win 10, plus I have NT 3.51 and NT 4. The software also includes Word for Workgroups. None of the earlier versions of MS Word will run properly on Win 7 or Win 10 - Word XP partial runs on Win 7 in the XP mode, but it doesn't have full functionality. None of the games for any earlier versions of Windows will run on Win 7 or Win 10 unless a virtual system is loaded, the same is true of the several imaging and cadcam programs I have that worked on earlier versions of Windows.

Before I retired and went into writing I spent over 20 years using Microsoft software at home and work, and over a decade as a technician working on and fixing computers running MS software, I know exactly what the issue is and why it's that way. New versions of Windows do not natively support the older software because the MS management have instructed the coders to see it doesn't. The reason you need new drivers for most hardware to do with MS operating systems is because MS do not use the industry standard command sets.

The only reason MS still supports MS-DOS is because they face a multi-trillion dollar lawsuit payout if they don't keep making the software available to the many companies they talked into using DOS for their on-board computing of computer controlled manufacturing machinery which has 50 to 75 year designed life spans - something the MS marketing people didn't take into account back then.

Ernest Bywater

@Grant

However the wear isn't from the "power surge" when powering up. It's from the thermal stress of rapidly heating up & cooling down.


According to the electrical engineer I used to work with it's the power surge that causes the thermal stress. Whatever you care to call it, it's the stress placed on the system at start up that's the big issue.

As to the hard drives, I'm not so sure how much this is true of the newer systems, but all the platter drives used to be made in such a way as a lot of the weight was taken off the bearings once the drive was almost up to speed. At slow speed the full weight bore down on the bearings, but at higher speed the spinning had less weight resting on the bearings themselves - or so the design engineer I used to work with informed me. However, that was during the period when hard drives came up to speed and stayed there until turned off, with the modern drives powering up and down as required, I'm not so sure that's still true.

BTW I at one point I worked in a unit with a pile of engineers you evaluated the engineering and tech behind a lot of gear being proposed to the Dept of Defence to report on the reliability and viability of the engineering in the proposed gear. That's where I was when I asked them about the engineering side of computers.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
Capt. Zapp

@sejintenej

Well, my W10 has to be rebooted every 2 sometimes 3 days. I did notice that if I am running Explorer only then periods appear longer that when I am also running Mozilla Firefox


So much for the 'better' & 'improved' operating system, eh?

Dominions Son

@Grant

It's from the thermal stress of rapidly heating up & cooling down.


Which is itself a side effect of the initial surge of power through the system.

Replies:   Grant
awnlee jawking

@sejintenej

I did notice that if I am running Explorer only then periods appear longer that when I am also running Mozilla Firefox


It seems to me that Explorer uses less memory and doesn't have the leaks that Chrome and Firefox do. I'm sad I can no longer use IE8 to access SOL.

AJ

Grant

@Dominions Son

It's from the thermal stress of rapidly heating up & cooling down.



Which is itself a side effect of the initial surge of power through the system.

To a point.
The fact is it's the heating & cooling that results in the failures, not the changes in current. If you were to keep the components at a constant temperature, regardless of the current flowing (within their rated limits of course) the component would well outlast one that had to endure significantly temperature changes, even if it's current was significantly less.

The fact is in many circuits when operating the current flow will go from 0 to maximum many times per second. And the temperature will remain fairly steady and the device can run for decades. However turning it on & off results in significant changes in temperature, and that results in significant reduction in operational life. Even for devices where the initial startup current is no greater than it's maximum operating current.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

I'm using a laptop (MacBook Pro). It has a life expectancy. When it's shut down the parts aren't being used. Doesn't that make it last longer?


Old habits die hard.

You don't need to shut down your laptop. It's actually better if you don't. Just close the screen down and let the laptop go to sleep. It's faster for you and better for the laptop.

I never shut down any of my Macs. The only time they're restarted is when a software update requires a restart; and it's a restart, not shutdown.

My current desktop Mac as been constantly powered since I migrated to it in 2013. My laptop since 2015.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Dominions Son

@Grant

The fact is it's the heating & cooling that results in the failures, not the changes in current.


True, but it's the sudden spike in current on start up that causes the rapid heating that leads to wear. Less current = less heating = less wear. They aren't as distinct as you suggest.

Replies:   Grant
Grant

@Dominions Son

True, but it's the sudden spike in current on start up that causes the rapid heating that leads to wear. Less current = less heating = less wear. They aren't as distinct as you suggest.

For most devices it's not the sudden spike in current, it's the sustained current that results in the heating.
They're not like an incandescent light bulb where as soon as you supply current, it gives out heat (and light). They're more like an old radiant heater- turn it on for half a second, then off again. There was a brief, very large, surge of current; yet it's temperature will have changed so little as to be almost immeasurable.

For the vast majority of devices, the initial power on surge has no significant (or even measurable) heating effect on the components.
As I mentioned previously- many devices normal function is lots of current pulses. Each individual pulse (such as the device being turned on) has almost no effect on it's temperature, it's only result of lots of them in a very short period of time that heats the device up.
Yes, the greater the current, the smaller the device, then the faster that occurs, but it's not the result of a single pulse/ initial surge.

Switch Blayde

Thanks, everyone. I learned something new. I won't shut my Mac down.

Switch Blayde

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

My laptop since 2015.


What about when you take your laptop out of your house?

When I go back and forth to my summer home, I take my laptop. That's the main reason I have a laptop instead of a desktop — so I can take my computer with me.

It's a 4 hour drive. If I don't shut it down, it will run on the battery. Isn't it better to shut it down for the trip?

Grant

@Switch Blayde

It's a 4 hour drive. If I don't shut it down, it will run on the battery. Isn't it better to shut it down for the trip?

Depends on your power settings (I figure they're similar for Mac as for Windows).
Usually when on mains power they'll be set for maximum performance. When on battery, they're usually set for lower performance, and to turn off the display, HDD etc after only a few minutes of inactivity.
And just closing the lid will usually put the system in to sleep or hibernate mode, in which the power draw these days is barely more than when it's turned off.
The power saving features of present CPUs (and support hardware) is really dammed impressive.

Ernest Bywater

@Switch Blayde

Isn't it better to shut it down for the trip?


If you're going over extremely rough terrain I'd shut it down, otherwise just pack it where it won't fall down and put it into sleep mode. When you plug in at the other end it's recharge OK, and you also have the computer for easy use when you stop for a coffee etc on the way.

awnlee jawking

@Ernest Bywater

As to the hard drives


I suspect solid state drives will be the way forward - o capacities are slowly increasing and prices are coming down.

Friends of mine have a notebook using a micro SD card for memory. Performance is shit fast.

AJ

awnlee jawking

@Switch Blayde

I saw a claim that it was good practice to allow laptop batteries to drain completely every so often, otherwise hysteresis would become a problem. I vaguely remember the word crystallisation in connection with the battery. I have no idea how valid that claim might be.

AJ

Replies:   Geek of Ages
Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

It's a 4 hour drive. If I don't shut it down, it will run on the battery. Isn't it better to shut it down for the trip?


My laptop needs two weeks at least to drain a full battery while it's sleeping. So power usage isn't an issue. Even if you go somewhere where there is no power, the process of shutting down and a reboot uses more power than sleeping for 4 hours. Test it, I'm almost sure that a four hours trip will not lose you more than 1% of battery charge.

Macs are way more power efficient than their Windows counterparts as the Mac OS has been constantly refined to work on Laptops as Apple's majority sales have been laptops for at least 8 or 9 years. Just don't use google Chrome or Firefox when running on battery as they are sucky that way. Using Chrome on a Mac laptop will cost you about 25% more battery than Safari. Firefox's power penalty is about 20%.

Trust me, they don't need much care as they used to. You don't need to drain the battery regularly to maintain its chargeability as new batteries are much smarter than before. These days, the only thing you worry about is liquid spills or drops that are high enough to damage the aluminum shell or crack the screen. SSD have no moving parts. So the only moving part in those laptops are the cooling fans and those are pretty sturdy.

By the way, if you ever spill liquids into the keyboard, it's quicker to force a shut down by holding down the power button for 8 seconds than to tell to shut down and hope it would finish before it starts shorting. Once my son spilled a cup of water into the keyboard as I was typing. I shut it down that way, vacuumed as much of the water out and put the laptop into a bag of rice for 24 hours and it sustained no damage.

In the end it's about how you're comfortable and what you like. Try not shutting it down for a while and see how it goes. If it gives you trouble, then go back to your usual ways.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Geek of Ages

@Switch Blayde

It's a 4 hour drive. If I don't shut it down, it will run on the battery. Isn't it better to shut it down for the trip?


I once left my MacBook Pro behind while I took a two-week vacation. I'd left it unplugged and at 100%; when I got back, it was still above 90%.

I regularly use my MacBook without power. I regularly get 7–8 hours of battery life out of it.

Computers these days are far better than what there was even a decade ago.

Geek of Ages

@awnlee jawking

Apple does provide a guide on their batteries, which would include that sort of thing: https://www.apple.com/batteries/

Switch Blayde

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

and put the laptop into a bag of rice for 24 hours


Wow, this is all great info. Thanks, everyone.

But I gotta ask. Why put it in a bag of rice? To absorb the water?

awnlee jawking

@Switch Blayde

Why put it in a bag of rice? To absorb the water?


Exactly. Works for mobile phones too, allegedly.

AJ

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@awnlee jawking

Works for mobile phones too


Rice? You must mean woks for... LOL

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Switch Blayde

Rice? You must mean woks for... LOL


Not very funny. You need to Thai harder ;)

AJ

Replies:   Ross at Play
Ross at Play

@awnlee jawking

You need to Thai harder

That attempt at humour was Laosy.

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

One of the causes may be that Windows is inefficient at clearing down virtual memory, and that builds up over time. My XP machine gets hammered pretty hard but I usually only need to reboot it a couple of times a week.

I use many older Adobe products, which are notorious for being memory hogs (consume huge amounts of memory, and never release it when the program ends). Add to that I run a 64-bit browser with dozens (around 50 to 80?) of tabs, and I run into 'wonky' issues frequently if I don't shut down to clear everything out.

My routers do the same thing. Every time my internet connect starts getting flaky (websites not connecting), I'm forced to unplug it, count the seconds for a full minute, then plug it in. That seems to fix it, though it takes three to five minutes for it to fully boot up. The fact the modem always runs hot makes it the ideal home for baby spiders, meaning the inaccessible inside of the case if likely filled with dead bugs.

Replies:   Centaur
Centaur

@Crumbly Writer

i only have to restart my XP maybe once or twice a month.what i hate about 7-8-10 is the background processes. i have mine down to 26(after full power up)services/back ground apps that start, 7-10 have more then 60. if a XP computer is not on the net the process can be trimmed down to 15. M$ puts too much crap in the OS

awnlee jawking

@Centaur

Ironic, since M$ claimed that porting to 64-bit gave them the opportunity to clear out a lot of old junk from Windows. Still, I guess they have to install their spyware processes so they can pass your details to people who you wouldn't voluntarily give them to :(

AJ

Dominions Son

@Centaur

have mine down to 26(after full power up)services/back ground apps that start, 7-10 have more then 60.


You don't know what you are talking about. I don't know about WIN 8 or 10, but my Win 7 64 bit is only running 38 processes currently and less than half of them are core windows processes.

Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

But I gotta ask. Why put it in a bag of rice? To absorb the water?

It's twofold. One is to absorb the moisture so it'll work. The second is, if it's dead, you also need to absorb the moisture if you hope to save your data off the 'dead' drives, as the restoration process typically involves freezing disks to fool the devices into working. If there's any moisture on them, it'll destroy the disks entirely (due to shorts in the electronic connections).

In the first you typically use rice, in the second they recommend the little packages included in most powder products to absorb any ambient moisture, so always remember to save those things, as they're worth their weight in gold in an emergency when you're facing the loss of all your data.

Crumbly Writer

My other issue with upgrades, and why my default on most of my devices is not to upgrade, is that it's now common practice for apps to include all kinds of features early, to draw users in, and once they hit a certain threshold, each upgrade drops one feature after another. Thus there's little use in adding upgrades if you benefit from those early features (and clearly paid for and want to preserve them).

Unforutnately, Apple's policy is, whenever you purchase a new device, to complete reinstall every item on the device. Thus any books, music or video you personally loaded on the device (I load all my own books, since I can't 'buy' my books from Amazon or Apple without paying full retail prices for my own work), are erased, and it takes quite a while to load an extensive music library, and even longer to reload all the verbotten non-Apple specific information.

"Get off my lawn!" has been replaced among the older generation with "I'll never upgrade!"

Replies:   John Demille
sejintenej

@Centaur

M$ puts too much crap in the OS

Going back in the mists of time my son was involved in programming the o/s of one of the early hand helds. It was based on Windows after they scrapped about 85% as junk.
Psion worked but never succeeded but by that time he had left

John Demille

@Crumbly Writer

Unforutnately, Apple's policy is, whenever you purchase a new device, to complete reinstall every item on the device. Thus any books, music or video you personally loaded on the device (I load all my own books, since I can't 'buy' my books from Amazon or Apple without paying full retail prices for my own work), are erased, and it takes quite a while to load an extensive music library, and even longer to reload all the verbotten non-Apple specific information.


Your experience differs from mine significantly, as in the total opposite.

Apple has long provided a migration assistant, like since 1998/1999. Whenever you buy a new Mac, you simply plug a cable (firewire, ethernet, USB, and now thunderbolt) between your old Mac and new one and you boot the old one into target mode and you boot the new one and you tell it to import your old mac's data.

It's the easiest thing I've ever experienced. Depending on how much data you had, it could take anywhere from 15 minutes to few hours and then you boot your new Mac and you can't tell it from your old one, other than it's a newer/faster/bigger Mac.

Since they introduced Time Machine backup, you can restore/setup a new Mac from time machine.

I've done the migration many many times, each time without a single hiccup.

On new iPhones/iPads you can even put your new iPhone next to your old iPhone and import the settings and then restore from iCloud back up or computer back up.

Always easy.

The only reason not to upgrade with Apple is loss of functionality of deprecated stuff as they are serious about moving forward and they don't let the past tie them down. They moved to 64bit and completely dropped support for 32bit binaries even when there were a lot of those binaries in use.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@John Demille

The only reason not to upgrade with Apple is loss of functionality of deprecated stuff as they are serious about moving forward and they don't let the past tie them down.

That's the key, but it's not Apple that's the one 'depreciating stuff'. You're right, Apple makes it very easy to transfer material, though they ONLY allow you to copy the currently available material (i.e. anything where the app has downgraded essential functionality, your current functionality is no longer allowed).

As far as Apple goes, as long as you got the material legally you CAN reinstall it (except for the above scenario), but I've got an extensive music library dating back multiple decades, and anything I didn't purchase from Apple, under my current Apple ID, is automatically considered stolen by Apple. I not only dislike the 'upgrading means losing functionality', but also the 'you can only keep anything WE approve of'. M$, for all its faults, never attempted to assert a M$ only restriction on their systems.

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

M$, for all its faults, never attempted to assert a M$ only restriction on their systems.


Actually, they have. They tried it early on way back in the DOS days, but since there were half a dozen DOS versions for IBM PCs back then, the market beat them up over it. Now, with a near monopoly in the PC OS market, Federal Anti-Trust regulators keep trying to go after them and they don't want to do anything to draw too much attention from that direction.

John Demille

@Crumbly Writer

As far as Apple goes, as long as you got the material legally you CAN reinstall it (except for the above scenario), but I've got an extensive music library dating back multiple decades, and anything I didn't purchase from Apple, under my current Apple ID, is automatically considered stolen by Apple.


I don't know what you're talking about. In the late 90s early 00s I ripped all my music CDs into MP3s and used them in SoundJam and then moved them to iTunes when that came out.

Never lost a file. Still have all of them.

They had a bug in iTunes when Apple Music came out few years ago and you turned iCloud music library on. It lost some of the files from iTunes (not all) but they remained on the hard drive and I just added them back. Yes, it was annoying as they were removed from the playlists, but nothing was gone or deleted.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Michael Loucks
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


As far as Apple goes, as long as you got the material legally you CAN reinstall it (except for the above scenario), but I've got an extensive music library dating back multiple decades, and anything I didn't purchase from Apple, under my current Apple ID, is automatically considered stolen by Apple


Huh? I have literally terabytes of ripped DVDs and CDs (still have all the plastic to prove ownership) and I've upgraded my Mac many, many times (both OS and replacing the hardware, as well as buying new). And Apple removed the DRM from their music files ages ago. They're still watermarked but they aren't DRMd.

Heck, 'iTunes Match' matched all my ripped CDs with no trouble and I've never once had problems with them. In some cases, I was even able to download a higher quality version from iTunes Match!

Switch Blayde

Should you shut down your computer? The consensus here is no.

I was in the Apple store doing a class so my wife and I had our laptops. At the end, my wife asked the Apple guy if we should shut down our laptops.

He said yes. He said the bouncing around in the car could damage the fan if the computer is on.

He also said we should shut it down at least once per month even if we don't move it. I repeated what I heard here about the wear and tear of the hard drive starting up. He said I have a solid state drive so that doesn't come into play. But even with my wife's older Mac he said to shut it down .

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Switch Blayde

He said yes. He said the bouncing around in the car could damage the fan if the computer is on.


I've never seen a Mac laptop with the fan on while sleeping. So I don't know what that guy was talking about.

Also, unless the laptop was directly on the car's metal somewhere with nothing dampening like seat or case padding, I doubt there would shocks strong enough in the car to do much damage to a sleeping macbook.

Switch Blayde

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

I've never seen a Mac laptop with the fan on while sleeping.


Interesting.

Crumbly Writer

@John Demille

I don't know what you're talking about. In the late 90s early 00s I ripped all my music CDs into MP3s and used them in SoundJam and then moved them to iTunes when that came out.

Never lost a file. Still have all of them.

Every time I upgrade my Mac, or my iOS devices, they strip ALL of my songs out of my iTunes (if they're NOT Apple certified), strip all of the books I wrote, and which I sell of iBooks, because they weren't 'purchased' by me on iBooks.

Every time, I've got to go back, reload them all into iTunes and iBooks one at a time, typically by copying them over via email and manually installing them. After eight years, I'm tired of fighting the same damn battle over and over again!

The fact isn't that they don't delete my files from my HD, but that they always strip my files from iTunes and iBooks each time I upgrade!!!

Note: It doesn't happen every time I update my iOS, but it does whenever I replace my iOS device, which is ever couple of years, meaning I've got to rebuild all my libraries every single time anyway.

The only way to prevent that, at least for my books, is for me to PURCHASE my own damn books, just so Apple will see them as legitimate purchases. But, if I ever delist (unpublish them), the whole process begins anew. :(

Replies:   John Demille
Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

Should you shut down your computer? The consensus here is no.

After the discussion started (again) here, I've left my computer running, and had no problem, despite running Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator and Dreamweaver. So I'd say you don't need to restart it every day.

A few years back, I had a custom built PC, but due to a design flaw in their webpage, they ended up installing a sub-par fan. As a result, the system would overheat anytime it was warm outside and the machine would crash. I guess my aversion to leaving the system running was tied into that period, though I seem to remember Adobe causing my problems afterwards, but I can't duplicate the failures (possibly because it's been freezing cold since then?).

So, shut down occasionally, yes. Shut down every single night. Nope.

I'll let you know whether my problems return once again when it gets warm (even though I've got a fucking HUGE fan now!).

Crumbly Writer

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

I've never seen a Mac laptop with the fan on while sleeping. So I don't know what that guy was talking about.

Also, unless the laptop was directly on the car's metal somewhere with nothing dampening like seat or case padding, I doubt there would shocks strong enough in the car to do much damage to a sleeping macbook.

I always work with my Mac while driving (when someone else is driving, not myself). I also use it on planes, trains but no passenger ships. I typically use it sitting on my lap, while the car bounces all over the place with potholes galore, and I've never had a problem (knock on wood). However, I do have a 500gb solid state drive, and access the internet while on the road by connecting to my phone via bluetooth, so I'm set.

John Demille

@Crumbly Writer

The fact isn't that they don't delete my files from my HD, but that they always strip my files from iTunes and iBooks each time I upgrade!!!


Usually, it's Apple's job to tell you this, but I'll say it: You must be doing something terribly wrong.

Again, through countless updates and upgrades from software to hardware (Macs, iPhones and iPads), I've never had to do any of that. My iTunes library is still the exact same one since iTunes started in 2001.

iBooks had a bug at the beginning and lost some files for me, but after its first update and until now, I've yet to have a file involuntarily removed from its library.

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