Forum: Author Hangout

If you get the timing right in can be in less than an hour.

I once submitted a story, went to perform a bodily necessity, and by the time I got back it was available. Someone must have been a very fast reader ;)

(Edited because first version got mangled - note to self, don't use angle brackets)

AJ

(Edited because first version got mangled - note to self, don't use angle brackets)

OK, I know I wrote it, but I wrote it for a reason - if you read this below you'll know what you can and can't include in a story for SoL as far as the formatting goes - I'll leave the story content itself alone

https://storiesonline.net/article/Text-formatting-guide-for-WLPC-Sites

Thanks, but the angle brackets were in the forum post.

AJ

Someone must have been a very fast reader ;)

I doubt they read the stories. They may run a search on key words to detect inappropriate content, but rely on readers who are offended to notify them of any inappropriate content their search misses. So it's probably load the chapter/story, run the search, convert it, and post it. They may check to verify the start of the story came though the converter okay.

The ONLY persistent complaints in the forums are about the absolutely impossible task of finding a scoring that satisfies the desires of both readers and writers.

I figure that issue will get resolved about the same time as died in the wool supporters of both political parties will agree that everyone on the other side of the fence is a nice person. - - which as a likelihood of less than zero.

The same way SOL scores range between one and ten, you can't have a negative score, or one below one.

Agreed, however the way some authors and readers use the ratings, you would think they consider anything below an 8.00 to be a negative number.

Agreed, however the way some authors and readers use the ratings, you would think they consider anything below an 8.00 to be a negative number.

For gay readers, those scores would be the only ones worth reading (despite they've vainly attempting to vote them higher).

I am running late on my reading. Just got home from the hospital. I had a major breathing attack Friday night.

Anomandaris, that's certainly a testament to your writing if it leaves experienced readers so excited they require hospitalization!

That wasn't the reason.

I figured that was the reason. Guess you're still not used to my sense of humor. Sometimes I don't think the smiley faces are needed. You don't have to convince me what Medicare is like, I keep losing necessary medical supplies for little reason.

Post a blog and a favorites list. Still getting a hang of using all the features.

Readers appreciate author's "favorites" list (though I haven't updated mine in years). The blogs are good, though not widely read, because they reach readers who don't normally read your work, but may still listen to your advice if you make a strong argument (i.e. readers who frequently read the blogs, as opposed to those who only visit if they're looking for into.).

Ask the reader how they would have coded the story differently to avoid such complaints.

AJ

Ask the reader how they would have coded the story differently to avoid such complaints.

Sadly, story codes are often like prologues, epilogues and forwards, in that they're not widely read (i.e. often fewer 30% read them). There are other ways to alert readers, without spoiling their surprise, which you've got to keep in mind for those who don't read the story the way you envision, but it takes more planning and foresight, and doesn't always work any better.

But it forces the reader to look at the situation through your eyes, and hopefully realise you did what you could to warn them and it's their own fault they're dissatisfied. More subtle than calling the reader a dumbass.

AJ

But it forces the reader to look at the situation through your eyes, and hopefully realise you did what you could to warn them and it's their own fault they're dissatisfied. More subtle than calling the reader a dumbass.

@Dominions Son

And others don't know what they are for. I have had complaints about coded for content and when I asked if the reader had looked at the codes the response I got back was "Yeah, but I thought that stuff would get mentioned but actually happen 'offstage'".

And in the situation D.S. portrays, there's really no warning which would prevent the issue if reader don't comprehend warnings. :(

I try and use all the information but still make mistakes sometimes. When I do, I close the story, I find another story on my list and begin reading. The only time I will send negative feedback is if I think it will help the writer improve their skill or talent.

Still, if there's ANY reason readers are dissatisfied with my stories, I'd like to know, just for my own edification and to allow me to make changes, if possible. If you think you screwed up in selecting a story, that's one thing, but if you think a story was miscoded or you were deceived, that's another entirely.

And if the reason the reader is dissatisfied is because he is a dumbass who can't figure out how the site works and is incapable of being satisfied what good does that do you?

It may not, but it may indicate something I wasn't aware of (such as readers don't think posted codes actually apply to the listed story). But it's never the expected issues that sink a story, instead it's those you and your editors never envisioned, so whenever a reader alerts me to new issues, I pay attention, even if it doesn't affect most readers.

However, as I said, your example is clearly an exception, as there's little way to 'fix' readers not understanding how stories work. :(

Yeah, I'm aware of that one. However, I've trained myself to think shorter, so it's taking a while to return to longer stories. The next to post story of mine, "Zombie Leza", is another short one (after all, who wants another never-ending zombie story), but the one after that (about to be published) is longer (90,000 words instead of 50,000 to 70,000). I also have another one I need to revise which I wrote when still in my 'longer stories' period I could release which should please everyone.

I gotta say, I really opened myself up for that one! 'D

So here's a question. How do you respond to comments from people that obviously haven't read the story codes? Like, I got a comment in regards to some of the bdsm elements, but it's in the codes and in a disclaimer at the top of every chapter...

Sadly, not everyone reads story codes (especially those stories which list dozens, while others learned not to because of those same stories). Even if they do, most will forget what the codes were after they've been reading several weeks/months, so it may still come as a shock.

If you want to minimize it, remind readers, either in your blog or in the end-of-story announcements (which are more widely read than blog entries), or given hints that it's in the works (ex. certain characters might give hints they're interested in certain traits, or suggest their into certain 'kinky' sex acts before you reveal what they are). That way, readers will anticipate it, and it will give them plenty of time to consider it so they won't be so shocked later.

But, in the end the story is the story, and it'll either stand on its own or it won't. You can't apologize for it, and you certainly won't change it because of a random complaint. However, don't alienate long-term readers over it either. Acknowledge their displeasure, explain how you tried to warn readers, and as a last resort, offer suggestions for stories they may appreciate more.

As always, it's better having happy readers who dislike a single story, than lifelong foes who'll try to poison the well for others (i.e. treat them with respect, rather than disdain).

If you know you're going to have gay male anal sex, post it first. I'm normally not into that sort of thing, so I'd rather not invest in the story. (The reason I'm reading YOUR old book that you've been posting is because YOU wrote it - so consider that my public kudos to you. Normally I wouldn't read something like Ed's New Life, so you're expanding my mind a bit.)

Thanks for the compliment, and although that was originally written back in 2000 and needs a lot of work on the writing style, I had a difficult time writing some of those scenes, but I felt there were important to the story and plot development then.

Thanks for the compliment, and although that was originally written back in 2000 and needs a lot of work on the writing style, I had a difficult time writing some of those scenes, but I felt there were important to the story and plot development then.

I had the opposite reaction when writing The Nature of the Game. While I've always had qualms about reading gay sex scenes, especially involving anal sex (since I'm not anally-stimulated), when I explored writing my own gay sex scenes, it was like a door opened, and now I now longer have issues with reading other authors' gay scenes. However, don't confuse being unable to read gay sex scenes and not appreciating badly written porn. Well-written porn should be easily accessible to virtually anyone, whether they're sexually involved in such scenes or not. It's only when readers don't think a sex scene has any relationship to the overall story they feel inclined to skip over it.

not appreciating badly written porn. Well-written porn

I suspect we differ on the difference between a porn story and an erotic story.

To me a porn story's plot is centered around two or more people engaging in sexual activities. An erotic story's plot has a suggestive story line that addresses a non-sexual topic/scenario and it may also contain sexual passages.

To me a porn story's plot is centered around two or more people engaging in sexual activities. An erotic story's plot has a suggestive story line that addresses a non-sexual topic/scenario and it may also contain sexual passages.

Definition: erotica - artistic porn, usually inundated with flowery imagery and excessive wordplay. 'D

I had the opposite reaction when writing

CW, my issues were more related to the forced sex then it was to the type of sex. I'm not one to force people to do anything, so writing something about forcing people to do things is outside my comfort zone.

CW, my issues were more related to the forced sex then it was to the type of sex. I'm not one to force people to do anything, so writing something about forcing people to do things is outside my comfort zone.

I agree with you there. I thought you were describing the traditional hetero-male gay-sex squick.

I agree with you there. I thought you were describing the traditional hetero-male gay-sex squick.

Understandable,originally I just mentioned the scenes themselves. I've done a couple of other m/m scenes in other stories, and also done forced sex scenes to, but that story was written a long time ago and when i first wrote such scenes. I still don't find scenes about forcing people easy to write, just easier than they used to be. heck, there's a reason why most of my stories are no sex or some sex - it's easier to write scenes without sex than with sex.

heck, there's a reason why most of my stories are no sex or some sex - it's easier to write secenes without sex than with sex.

In my case, I found that sex scenes would often lead the characters (and the story overall) in unexpected new directions, making the entire story richer. However, I became disenchanted with the technique as readers kept critiquing me for including sex, including the wrong type of sex, or not including enough sex. In the end, it just wasn't worth including the sex scenes because of the unrelenting demands of the perpetually unsatisfied, despite the cost to the stories themselves. :(

It just reads that way when you look at your correspondence.

As my description explains, it's hardly all SOL readers. In this case, it's a vocal minority of only a few readers which eventually (after several books) discouraged me from writing sex scenes.

I already did that once. Wasn't a lot of fun, so I don't plan to do that again.

A good death is always worth repeating. Sounds like a great title for a murder mystery!

A good death is always worth repeating.

Is that a do-over that begins after you're dead

A good death is always worth repeating.

That could be the main title.

Subtitle - The story of John Wayne Gacy

In my case, I found that sex scenes would often lead the characters (and the story overall) in unexpected new directions, making the entire story richer.

YES!

Sex just fucking changes things. (Bad pun, I couldn't resist).

Crumbly gets it. If you use sex in a story, NEVER forget how it changes your characters.

Crumbly gets it. If you use sex in a story, NEVER forget how it changes your characters.

Or, more importantly, never introduce sex into a story and then assume that nothing changes in either your basic plot of the relationship between the characters!

assume that nothing changes

Only true if the original plot was not intended to include sex. Around here, the majority of the stories were intended to include sex before their authors wrote the first sentence.

Only true if the original plot was not intended to include sex. Around here, the majority of the stories were intended to include sex before their authors wrote the first sentence.

Except, I was pointing out a major failing of many SOL stories, where some young guy has sex with hundreds of women, and there's little difference between any of them, it never impacts his relationship with all the other women, and he never once suffers from pangs of guilt for being such a rampant ass.

I understand the Mary Sue trend, but I prefer such stories to have at least a semblance of recognition that the motif is strained, at best.

I like the conflict involved as one wrestles with their personal demons, as well as the 'wish-fulfillment' aspects. One without the other is like eating a plain hot dog with no mustard, or chili without peppers and sausage. It's just ... lacking something essential to the mix.

If he is open, honest and up front about it with all the women, he has nothing to feel guilty about, as he isn't being a rampant ass.

You can be open and honest, yet still be beset by personal doubts which provide a fascinating internal conflict which drives both the character and story to new heights. Not every conflict in a story is external, often, half the battle in internal, figuring out who you are, and what you need to answer the challenges facing you.

Realizing you can be a better man, even though you're technically doing 'everything' correctly, means you're human, struggling to make sense of your life—and making the story more personal for everyone—despite the Mary Sue premise.

We all appreciate the wish-fulfillment aspects of stories, but countering them with the occasional self-doubt makes the moments of blatant self-confident actions stand out.

You missed the point completely. If he's honest with the women that he is not promising or offering monogamy and they still agree to be with him, with full up front knowledge that the relationship isn't going to be exclusive, he's not being any ass in any way shape or form.

Except, as a general rule, while men admire the playboys who 'get away' with such behavior, most women consider them despicable cretins. Thus, for me at least, I'd at least want to acknowledge they had a point, to at least get those readers to grant me the time to make my case that the character isn't a complete ass! Otherwise, you're telling those readers "I don't give a damn what you think about my story, bugger the fuck off and leave me alone!"

Three guesses how they'll respond.

Often, simply acknowledging a potential problem in a story will buy you the time to flesh out the character and resolve the internal story conflict. That's why I try to anticipate how certain readers will interpret my character, even if I don't intend the character to be that way.

However, it sounds like you're aiming solely for the lonely guys looking to beat off, rather than a story which can be enjoyed by everyone—because that's how your response (and story presentation) is likely to be interpreted.

That isn't at all what I am talking about in terms of being open and honest with the women upfront.

Okay, I understand that, though I'd argue that not all the women he's likely to meet will take it as such. Many (in real-life, at least) will think the 'right woman' can change him, and thus will feel cheated by the encounter afterwards. While I wouldn't consider writing the entire story about such characters, I'd like to at least recognize that they exist, and that many people have negative associations based on people they've know who've been burned by such interactions.

All I'm suggesting (and I'll admit, it's more work with little hope of any major pay off) is that it'll benefit a story to at least acknowledge there's a certain internal conflict, even if the story doesn't address it. It helps make the character both more complicated and more relatable. It at least establishes that he's trying to be honest both with himself and with the women he's sleeping with.

I don't expect everyone to include such reflections in their stories, but it's at least worth noting, so you can consider it as an option.

It's better to recognize potential story issues than to be blindsided by them later. Again, it probably won't impact your reader base, but if you lose two, five or twenty readers who never specifically complain, wouldn't you want to at least know that?

If you decide it's not worth investing the time in addressing, that's a valid decision, but it's better knowing it ahead of time than to be surprised when readers suddenly start disappearing midway through the story (which happens often enough, anyway, usually with little explanation).

It's more of a 'mindset' thing that an actual plot point.

Note: You can tell that I often obsess over minor details like this, which is what often separates my stories from others on the site.

And they will have been cheated by the encounter, he didn't cheat them, they cheated themselves.

Never mind. We've already beaten this particular dead horse to death. You know what you're doing, there's little need to read you the basics, I was merely making a point that I prefer acknowledging things, even if they're not essential to the story. It adds a certain complexity to the character, but there are other ways of accomplishing the same thing. It's hardly a 'one-size fits all' story requirement.

Note: See, this is the kind of trouble you get in when you don't get enough sleep, and insist on responding to Forum posts because you're too tired to work on actual stories!

I should know by now that lecturing people on this forum is pointless. That's better on the LinkedIn Author forums, as there the authors are more eager to learn, whereas here everyone is pretty much set in their ways or insists that there are 'no set rules' (which everyone understands anyway).

Goodnight.

If you use sex in a story, NEVER forget how it changes your characters.

Not only changes your characters, but defines them.

The first sex scene in my WIP novel makes the protagonist look like someone who uses women because the sex is not for her pleasure. But you find out later it was because she was a bitch who wanted her husband killed and used men to get her way.

The next sex scenes show the protagonist's true character. In one he thinks the girl thinks she has to have sex with him to get him to help her. He turns her down until he learns she wants it for other reasons. The next one is even more telling and he has the sex with the woman because she "needs" it to feel human again (long story).

So the sex is critical to understanding the characters. He has a sense of right and wrong and lives by his principles.

Very true but, as an author, which would you prefer between a mouse quietly whispering in you ear or God, ablaze in thunder and lightning, skit un'dornder, yelling in your lughole?

Do as you choose. However, there are lots of authors who don't respond to emails anymore, others who don't have an email address that works now, and so on. It comes down to a number of factors. If you email the author you need to track if you get response or not, and remember to take further action later if there isn't. If you email the webmaster it's one email for you and you can forget about.

I don't have the time to chase down email addresses, so I let Lazeez deal with it because it's his site. However, if I know the author and have a working email for him, I'll lelt him know direct.

At this point in time the majority of stories missing a code are likely to be the older stories missing a code added to the list since the story was published

I withhold story codes if they give away an important plot twist. Some readers like the technique, others don't.

AJ

I withhold story codes if they give away an important plot twist. Some readers like the technique, others don't.

and it misleads people as to what the story is about. That breaks the trust the reader has with the author, and once broken it's almost impossible to get back.

That's a risk I'm willing to take. It attracts readers to genres they wouldn't normally tackle, and hopefully my stories have enough of a plot to pull it off.

AJ

I withhold story codes if they give away an important plot twist. Some readers like the technique, others don't.

and it misleads people as to what the story is about. That breaks the trust the reader has with the author, and once broken it's almost impossible to get back.

I'd rather lose a reader than give away a twist and ruin the story for everyone else.

But if it's a bad squick (e.g., MM), I simply won't post the story on SOL.

I withhold story codes if they give away an important plot twist. Some readers like the technique, others don't.

While I can respect that, you've got to remember that for many, squick aversion is a major story selection criteria. Consider the case of someone raped by a brother as a child. Not wishing to relieve the abuse, they'll careful avoid anything with "incest", "rape" or even "no-con" in the codes, so to have them thrust on them at the last minute feels like an additional violation. Many feel the same way about watersports, infantialism, bdsm or romantic mm stories. You should always list squicks upfront, even if you keep other surprises a secret for later.