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ehobson

Is it just me, or are some authors fudging tags? I mean you list just about every sex act known to man and then you label at piece "some Sex" - Really?

sejintenej

Not sure what stories you have been looking at. think of a 200 chapter story with a total of 20 sex acts - that is one every ten stories and some authors condense the act into 15 words. Yes, some sex and not much more than that.
OTOH if that were 20 chapters of two screens each with 20 sex acts each taking one and a half screens then it comes between some, much and stroke story.

There is also the question of the detail of the description; I've seen authors who can spend paragraph after paragraph and not get into the nitty gritty but make the reader do all the imagining

The choice is up to the author and if you want to moan then contact the author or at least give some pretty specific examples.

Switch Blayde
Updated:

@ehobson

The amount of sex label is very subjective.

I once asked my Yahoo group about one of my stories — should it be labeled "some sex" or "much sex"?

The results of the poll was "some sex" so I changed it to that. Then I thought about it. My sex scenes are explicit, and there were a lot of them, but the story had a plot and character development. So there were plenty of words/scenes that weren't sex scenes. That must be why the people who took the poll chose "some sex."

I ended up changing it back to "much sex." To me, if I took out the scenes associated with plot and character development it would be "stroke."

Also, story codes reflect the type of sex in the story, not the amount of sex.

docholladay
Updated:

@ehobson

That label is a judgement call on the part of the writer. Heck even readers will have different ideas as to which of the amount of sex labels really fit a story. For me that particular label could almost be done away with accept for the fact it is also used to label as having No Sex acts. Usually now the No-sex labeled stories also get posted to FS or Sci-Fi. For a writer just use your best guess as someone will always think it should have a different quantity label.

In fact some of the older stories probably qualify for the No-sex label as well, just unless the writers change the story labels and flags, they will probably never get updated.

edited to add: Maybe that flag was added to help automate the cross posting of stories to the sister sites, but never got utilized for that purpose.

Ernest Bywater

I assess the selection on the rough percentage of the story that's taken up in graphic sex scenes. If they're over 75% then its stroke - under 20% is minimal sex with and 50% is the divider for the other two

StarFleet Carl

@ehobson

Well, I have my story tagged with minimal sex, because the sex isn't the main (you'll pardon the pun) thrust of the story, at least in my opinion. And I'm the guy writing the thing, but you as a reader may disagree.

Having said that, I also blatantly say that it's not a stroke story, even though there is definitely graphic sex. To me, a stroke story is one where there is page after page of graphic sex descriptions. If you can get off on a half page graphic sex description, you have a hair trigger.

At the same time, I also included a lot of codes because I'd rather err on the side of too many than too few - and I added some as the story progressed, because ... well, there are zombies, vampires, and incest in the story. That way you know it in the codes and tag.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@StarFleet Carl

That is why I said the how much sex is included label is going to have so many reactions. The writer uses his or her best guess for their story. Then the readers (including other writers) will have their own opinions which may or may not match that label. The rest of the codes give more information as a rule even after the writer adjusts the codes for any of a number of reasons, including feedback from readers and other writers or editors.

Crumbly Writer

No matter how much sex I include, some readers think it's too much while others think it's too little. Even those they remain my most popular chapters, I've become so disillusioned by these varying perceptions, I now largely avoid including sex scenes.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@Crumbly Writer

I tend to read those scenes if they fit the character and the plot otherwise i tend to skip over them until the story actually continues.

Replies:   REP
REP

@docholladay

otherwise i tend to skip over them until the story actually continues.


Yeah, and in some stories that is 2-3 pages later and the story plot resumes for less than a half page before the next sex scene. I bail on those stories.

Lostlady
Updated:

Since the stories I submit as Lostlady are stroke stories, and I do submit non-stroke stories under another pen name, I feel I should throw in my two cents worth on this subject. I view it this way; if you cut out all the sex scenes and you still have a coherent story, it's a "some sex" story. If you cut out the sex and you're left with something like "She was feeling lonely when she opened the door to her son's bedroom and saw him... they were exhausted... 'Gee thanks Mom, you're the best'", then it's stroke. Maybe I've over simplified it, but that's how i see it. For a brief period, I was labeling stories in which I tried to give reasons why these women were doing what they were doing beyond simple nymphomania as much sex, but decided I was just splitting hairs.

Replies:   Grant  Ernest Bywater
Grant

@Lostlady

if you cut out all the sex scenes and you still have a coherent story, it's a "some sex" story.

Not really.
Look at bluedrgon's "Ordinary XYX Sex Life" series, the main stories. Cut out the sex, and you still have great stories. However there is a lot of sex in the story, so that (correctly) earns them the "Much Sex" tag.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer  Lostlady
Crumbly Writer

@Grant

Look at bluedrgon's "Ordinary XYX Sex Life" series, the main stories. Cut out the sex, and you still have great stories. However there is a lot of sex in the story, so that (correctly) earns them the "Much Sex" tag.

The tag isn't (some plot), instead it's either (much sex) or (some sex). That seems fairly clear cut.

Replies:   Grant
docholladay

Considering the reactions of Law Enforcement, some writer has gotten either very brave or very stupid. Classified a serial story as "Pedo". That flag turns me off regardless however so I haven't even bothered to check the story out.

Grant

@Crumbly Writer

The tag isn't (some plot), instead it's either (much sex) or (some sex). That seems fairly clear cut.

Maybe so, but I was responding to part of Lostlady's post "I view it this way; if you cut out all the sex scenes and you still have a coherent story, it's a "some sex" story."

Lostlady

@Grant

You have a valid point. I was trying to define stroke stories, perhaps I should have said it depends on whether sex is a part of the plot or whether sex is the plot. If it's the later, it's a stroke story. Once you separate stroke stories from the rest, then which tag you should use for the amount of sexual content becomes obvious.

docholladay

@Lostlady

True Lostlady, but like of that section's tags its a decision everyone will probably have a different opinion on. The original writer/poster, the critics, other writers, editors and last but not least maybe the readers. Its why I tend to overlook that field and look at the description and content codes combined to make my initial choices. Even then I have made mistakes in what I would like or dislike (my fault not the writer's).

Ernest Bywater

@Lostlady

I look at the sex grades as a scale where you start at 0% graphics sex scenes for No Sex stories, then go up so I have them as roughly the following percentages related to the amount of the words that make up the graphic sex scenes and the on stage sex scenes.

No sex - zero percent graphic sex and zero percent on stage sex scenes.

Minimal Sex - 0 to 25 percent of the words are sex scenes

Some Sex - 26 to 60 percent of the words are sex scenes

Much Sex - 61 to 89 percent of the words are sex scenes

Stroke - 90 percent, or higher, of the words are sex scenes

The amount of plot is irrelevant to this valuation.

Replies:   REP  Crumbly Writer
REP
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater


I look at the sex grades as a scale


Not a bad scale EB; in that it gives definitive values for judging the code to use.

It could be easily implement for a short story, but doing so for a long story might be time consuming. Implementation is even more difficult when you consider many authors post their chapters before the entire story is written.

In general, we all interpret the code definitions on the SOL website subjectively. Our readers interpret the codes we assign subjectively also. I doubt any definitive coding system would be acceptable to everyone. We would probably argue over the limits assigned to each code.

Edited to expand comments.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

I look at the sex grades as a scale where you start at 0% graphics sex scenes for No Sex stories, then go up so I have them as roughly the following percentages related to the amount of the words that make up the graphic sex scenes and the on stage sex scenes.

Ernest, by your count, every single story I've written would consist of "Minimal Sex", either counting by chapter, word count or section (I typically count mine as "some sex", largely because the plot involves a certain amount of sex which is integral to the plot, but it's still a minor plot element, rather than a central focus of my stories.

Crumbly Writer

@Lostlady

You have a valid point. I was trying to define stroke stories, perhaps I should have said it depends on whether sex is a part of the plot or whether sex is the plot. If it's the later, it's a stroke story. Once you separate stroke stories from the rest, then which tag you should use for the amount of sexual content becomes obvious.

Ah, that clears the confusion. I'd thought you were referring to "much sex" or "some sex".

Switch Blayde

I thought "stroke" is a story without plot.

Ernest Bywater

@REP

It could be easily implement for a short story, but doing so for a long story might be time consuming. Implementation is even more difficult when you consider many authors post their chapters before the entire story is written.


The author should be able to assign a place on the scale by an estimated evaluation. I did that with Finding Home which is over 270,000 words - it has some graphic sex scenes early in the story do demonstrated aspects of the way the main character is thinking and acting, and after they're used to show some changes in his behaviour they very quickly fade out of the story.

Replies:   REP
REP

@Ernest Bywater

And then there is the other position where an author plans one level of sex scenes, but gets caught up in the reviews saying great story and sex scenes - Give me even more!

The result can be: the writer gives the reader what they ask for and in the process exceeds the code originally selected.

Yes, the author can upgrade his code selection, but as a reader, I avoid stroke stories. So a story I like, which has a plot and a moderate amount of sex, gets upgraded to a stroke story. Since the story becomes one sex scene after another with none of the original focus on the plot, I become disappointed and bail on the story.

Ernest Bywater

@REP

And then there is the other position where an author plans one level of sex scenes, but gets caught up in the reviews saying great story and sex scenes - Give me even more!

The result can be: the writer gives the reader what they ask for and in the process exceeds the code originally selected.


Which is only an issue with the stories that are written as they go, and are not properly planned out before hand.

Replies:   REP
REP

@Ernest Bywater

are not properly planned out before hand.


I never intended my remark to apply to stories completed before they are posted.

But when the planning of a post as you go story gets thrown out the window, the plot usually goes with it.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@REP

The result can be: the writer gives the reader what they ask for and in the process exceeds the code originally selected.


If the story is only part written, it does make it hard to work out and appropriate percentage of the whole.

In my story Finding Home there are 273,600 words in a 6 x 9 inch book of 673 pages. The total amount of actual sex scenes is quite low as part of the overall story. However, in they're all in the first 20 to 25% of the story, and are a few rather long scenes. I've had readers emails while reading the early parts on SoL to ask why I have it as Some Sex when there's such heavy scenes at the start, and I have to explain they soon vanish because they're sued to show character aspects, and when they no longer help with the story development they vanish. From that point it's assumed the sex still happens, I just don't write about it. - If each chapter was coded on it's own, the code for the early chapters would be higher and the later ones would be No Sex - thus I code on the whole story.

Ernest Bywater

@REP

But when the planning of a post as you go story gets thrown out the window, the plot usually goes with it.


True, but the majority of the post as you go stories I see have no planning to begin with.

REP

@Ernest Bywater

True, but the majority of the post as you go stories I see have no planning to begin with.


It would appear that way.

Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

True, but the majority of the post as you go stories I see have no planning to begin with.

Their planning is more align with the U.S. political parties: the Democrats' 'a hope and a prayer' and President's 'Look, a bright shiny things!' and the Republicans' 'maybe it won't be as bad as everyone assumes'.

docholladay

@Ernest Bywater

True, but the majority of the post as you go stories I see have no planning to begin with.


Part of the problem is the characters/story seem to come to life in some cases wanting a different set of scenes/path than was originally planned. (best way I know to describe it)

The same probably happens at times with all storytellers/writers even when a story has been planned out in advance. Sometimes it might seem that the characters want a special set of events written. Sometimes it makes a story better even when it drives the writers up the wall.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@docholladay

Part of the problem is the characters/story seem to come to life in some cases wanting a different set of scenes/path than was originally planned. (best way I know to describe it)


This is true, and why I wait to finish before I assign codes and post.

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