Forum: Author Hangout

some authors would like to know why you do like their story. Just a thought

That's what the e-mail comments are for.

Throw in those who die and the number of good stories will dwindle.

Yes, we do lose established writers and their future stories. But I also noticed over the past week or two that a number of posters have identified themselves as new writers. They and others who get bit by the storytelling bug are the source of our future good stories.

Who in their right mind would read a story through which they consider so atrocious?

I used to not vote on a story if I hadn't read it through. I thought it unfair to the author. Maybe it got better. But then after hearing Lazeez complain about the scores being too high I realized I was doing the scoring system an injustice. So if I start reading a story and it's crap, I'll score it as such.

Saying that, I pretty much stopped scoring stories.

Fact is though that, as he's explained, many writers react disproportionately to a negative.

It would be fairer to say some writers instead of many writers because there aren't that many who dislike the system. However, the key to the whole thing is SoL is designed for readers and the scoring system is to assist the readers in selecting a story, while Wattpad is designed for the writers and not the readers. Two different end products require two different solutions.

Like most writers i look at the downloads and feedback email to see how a story is received, and only look at the scores when we have discussions like this. Then I look at the scores to help with giving an explanation. because the relativity between authors is the same, it really becomes irrelevant what system is used.

the key to the whole thing is SoL is designed for readers and the scoring system is to assist the readers in selecting a story, while Wattpad is designed for the writers and not the readers.

I'd say the opposite, if anything, gotta say. Wattpad is full of writers who get no reads at all (though once a story takes off it's very positive because there are no negative options as I say). The readers on the other hand have a great time.

I don't want to get too far into the differences because obviously WP is so much bigger. But as a reader the search system here doesn't work very well. A high score doesn't mean a good story, and the tags are often about things that are peripheral, or are contradictory. I've revised my tags more than once, having misinterpreted or missed them. I'd get on much better with a system that uses recommendations more.

I notice Wattpad had to upload a huge swag of Guttenberg material when it started up to get anyone interested, while Sol started with copyrighted material instead of riding someone else's coattails. However, the big thing against Wattpad is its terms of service.

I keep away from any site with the following in their terms of service:

C. For clarity, you retain all of your ownership rights in your User Submissions. However, by submitting User Submissions to Wattpad.com, you hereby grant Wattpad.com a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, transferable license to use, reproduce, distribute, display, and perform the User Submissions in connection with the Wattpad.com Website. You also hereby grant each user of the Wattpad.com Website a non-exclusive license to access your User Submissions through the Website. You understand and agree, however, that Wattpad.com may retain, but not display, distribute, or perform, server copies of User Submissions that have been removed or deleted.

Which gives them the right to sell on your submission anywhere in the world, and they have the legal right to keep the material on display despite you wanting to remove it for any reason.

Also, Wattpad is much more restrictive of what can be posted there than SoL is.

Which gives them the right to sell on your submission anywhere in the world, and they have the legal right to keep the material on display despite you wanting to remove it for any reason.

Also, Wattpad is much more restrictive of what can be posted there than SoL is.

Oh I'm not trying to draw odious comparisons in a general way, just the voting and commenting systems, and the point about JRyter and some others getting fed up of the negative votes and comments.

I'm basically floating the question of whether the scale of ratings works - whether it has more downside than upside, and whether comments linked to a member's profile and inline and public would both keep them civil and be a useful search tool.

Oh I'm not trying to draw odious comparisons in a general way, just the voting and commenting systems,

I was explaining why I don't know much about Wattpad because of their terms allow them to make money off your work without your approval.

That has to bias how they set up the rest of the site, because they're after money from it in many ways.

edit to add: SoL makes it's money from paying readers. While Wattpad makes it's money in other ways that are less clear to the users.

Ah ok. There are some things they do well, I think.

As a reader I definitely look at the download totals before the scores and sometimes I will look at reviews.

Scores are the last thing I check to decide on what to read

My highest-scoring story has almost the lowest number of downloads! I've been assuming that the no of downloads is about the title and description, in that once a reader has clicked on it that's recorded as a download.

Yes, it is angering to get feedback from a Troll. Yes, it is angering to be 1-bombed. But, if you have to comment on that feedback/score in the Forum, keep your remarks focused on what was said/scored, and avoid comments about the system that you configured to allow readers to give you that score/feedback.

There's a lot more to a system than configuring it with a small number of sledgehammer options. Why do you think nobody should comment on the system?

I like getting storing data on my stories.

I don't think Lazeez objects to our remarks about a score or someone's feedback comment for it is mostly us blowing off steam.

However, he seems to be fed up with trying to tweak the scoring system to please all of us. He made it clear that if we writers continued to grip about the scoring system he would delete it.

He made it clear that if we writers continued to grip about the scoring system he would delete it.

I seriously doubt he was talking about deleting the scoring system itself, just deleting the author access to the data used to calculate the score. The theory being: if we don't see the data we have less to complain about.

You are right. I was thinking of not getting the results and misstated my thoughts.

However, he seems to be fed up with trying to tweak the scoring system to please all of us. He made it clear that if we writers continued to grip about the scoring system he would delete it.

I had the impression Lazeez is keen to have the scoring system serve the writers as well as the readers. I doubt he resents feedback and suggestions, as long as they're offered respectfully and with a bit of thought behind them. It's the same with feedback on our stories, after all, and this is a forum. But he can always say, of course.

I doubt he resents feedback and suggestions, as long as they're offered respectfully and with a bit of thought behind them.

Generally, this is true. However, over the years he's received a lot of abuse from many authors about the scoring system and is fed up with it. After the last major change he declared That's it no more changes to how it works. The only change he's made since then is how much of the raw information is made available to the authors.

Well it's not only the scoring but also the comments that have driven JRyter away, as I understand it. He seems to have been at the sensitive end of the scale, but anyway it's something to think about IMO. Lazeez can ignore me easily enough, or he might decide to review the two together, who knows. Nothing is forever, especially in a website, and one of the great things about SOL is that he's clearly always working on it.

My point anyway is that given that some of us writers are soooo delicate (tho some of us aren't of course) then having a private comments system AND a 1-bomb facility is a bit of a troll's toolkit :).

It gives so much power to the reader, and there are always a few who'll take advantage to victimise a writer, to make themselves feel clever, or whatever.

Then it overlaps into the search facility and how well that works in practice. Looking at my reads I'd say not as well as one might think, in that once a story is off the front pages its download rate falls off a cliff. Also there's no correlation between the score and the download rate, within 7.x at least.

My point anyway is that given that some of us writers are soooo delicate (tho some of us aren't of course) then having a private comments system AND a 1-bomb facility is a bit of a troll's toolkit :).

It gives so much power to the reader, and there are always a few who'll take advantage to victimise a writer, to make themselves feel clever, or whatever.

It makes sense being able to cut off an abuse email barrage, but I've never encountered this. While 1-bombs are rare (the 5% rules seems to eliminate most of their influence), I haven't heard of anyone inundating authors with harrassing emails. They might write pointed responses, where they press their points, but generally, once you tell them you disagree with their opinion and won't change your mind, they leave you alone. A few might turn to the 1-bomb option, but there aren't enough to amount to much influence.

Thus, after all these long discussion, I still see it as a non-issue. More than anything else, I want to preserve the SOL response system, as it's one of SOL's strongest features for both authors and readers. One which isn't really duplicated anywhere else. So trying to 'correct' a non-existent problem might end up hampering the site's strongest encouragement system.

In short, it's better to avoid doing harm, than to eliminate a low-frequency problem. I'm perfectly happy with Lazeez's solution, even though I prefer seeing the individual scores, as my 1-bombers helped alert me to certain issues in the story (when readers unexpectedly respond to a story issue).