I'm revising stories and keep seeing clichés everywhere. If I use the Hemingway rule, it's easy to see which one below is simpler, but does it really matter?
Which is better:
His hair was redolent of salt and sweat. (original)
His hair smelled of salt and sweat.
~ JBB
His hair was redolent of salt and sweat.
I'd have to look up "redolent," so I'd go with the second, but that's me...
redolent
First meaning is "brings to mind".
And since salt really has no particular smell, perhaps redolent is the correct word.
First meaning is "brings to mind".
What dictionary?
Merriam Webster lists:
1: exuding fragrance : aromatic
2
a: full of a specified fragrance : scented
air redolent of seaweed
b: evocative, suggestive
a city redolent of antiquity
And since salt really has no particular smell, perhaps redolent is the correct word.
Salt by itself may not, but sweat does.
and seawater.
Seawater doesn't smell from the salt. The salt is odorless.
the smell of the sea comes primarily from volatile organic compounds, specifically dimethyl sulfide (DMS), produced by marine organisms like bacteria and phytoplankton. This sulfur compound, along with seaweed pheromones and bromophenols, creates the characteristic "salty" or briny odor.
& deadly. College students have even signed petitions to ban it.
Of course that's in their self interest. If drinking water is banned then the age restriction on alcohol consumption would have to be removed.
I prefer to call that substance hydroxyl acid, sounds so much more sinister. It can be written H(OH) so it's valid.
Except, when you purchase seawater, either in shakers or blocks, they do have very unique tastes. Pure, iodizes salt has no taste, actual dried saltwater has a wide variety of aftertastes. And many salt blocks are dug up, often being MILLIONS of years old, from the dried ocean beds of the distant past. And trust me, those have a very flavorful palate.
You buy iodized salt to give you heart attacks, you used dry seawater for the senses, highlighting your foods other flavors in very small dozes, "by the pinch, not the ounce" in cooking terms.
But iodized salt is a primary source of iodine for our diet. Necessary for thyroid health and vital for pregnant women. We don't each much seafood, the other source. And with seafood you get free mercury too! Seaweed is a good source, but the amount of that eaten in America is minimal.
The point was whether salt has taste, and people were actively arguing when I gave examples of salts with very distinctive tastes. In the ancient days, salt farms were where they left fresh water to dry in the hot sun (less taste, yet still some).
Thus iodized salt is a relatively recent invention, unless you create it in a chemistry lab. Besides, mercury in fish is considered "mercury poisoning", dumping chemicals into the sea and fish having no way of processing and excreting it (i.e. it's not innate to fish themselves).
In the ancient days, salt farms were where they left fresh water to dry
Sea water, not fresh water. You wouldn't get a significant amount of salt from evaporating fresh water.
And not all salt in ancient times came from that process. in an active sense.
Even way back when, ancient salt deposits were mined.
https://www.salzwelten.at/en/blog/hallstatt-saltmine
As we said: The history that salt mining in Hallstatt looks back on, is absolutely unique worldwide. During the Neolithic Age – an almost incomprehensible 7,000 years ago – people were already busy here mining for salt.
Except, when you purchase seawater, either in shakers or blocks, they do have very unique tastes.
Who was talking about taste? I said:
Seawater doesn't smell from the salt. The salt is odorless.
The salt is odorless.
In an absolute sense, it can't be. It's just that humans can't detect it because it's too faint.
AJ
The term there is "briney", not "salty". Table salt has no taste, though sea salt has the taste of the ocean, whatever it contains, which is why 'ancient salt tablets' cost as much as they do.
I've lived along the ocean for most of my life, and can describe the difference is the smell based on location, weather and tropical conditions (i.e. before and after a storm or during calm seas).
It's an ever changing sensual kaleidoscope or a cacophony.
What dictionary?
Cambridge:
smelling strongly of something or having qualities (especially smells) that make you think of something else:
The album is a heartfelt cry, redolent of a time before radio and television.
And from Merriam-Webster:
Top Synonyms for Redolent:
Fragrant/Scented (Smell): Aromatic, perfumed, odorous, sweet-smelling, pungent, balmy, savory, odoriferous.
Evocative/Reminiscent (Suggestive): Suggestive, indicative, remindful, recalling, allusive, symbolic, expressive, bringing to mind.
So smell is one meaning while suggestive is another.
BTW, I'd never use the word. I had to look it up.
So smell is one meaning while suggestive is another.
I didn't claim otherwise, but Merriam Webster lists "exuding fragrance : aromatic" as the first definition unlike what the person I was replying to claimed.
And I don't think you have any way of knowing what dictionary he was using.
And I don't think you have any way of knowing what dictionary he was using.
Or the meaning of the sentence since it was taken out of context.
Or the meaning of the sentence since it was taken out of context.
Yes, but that was a different person, the OP for the thread. I was replying to a specific comment.
Or the meaning of the sentence since it was taken out of context.
I'm not sure that additional context is needed to understand what's going on. She's smelling his hair and describing her impression of its odor.
But if it helps, here's the context from Chapter Seven of Amélie:
That night on the island, she'd rolled over against Gérard. She smelled the salt on his skin, the fading aroma of her own scents that followed their vigorous lovemaking. His skin burned, it seemed to her, when she rested the pads of her fingers on his neck to feel his steady pulse. His hair, unkempt and uncut since their last port, was redolent of salt and sweat. She felt the stubble on his cheek. A visit to the barber at their next port would be in order, she thought.
ETA: I've enjoyed the comments and appreciate them. I'm keeping "redolent." After all, the reader is given a purple prose alert at the beginning. My only worry is that it probably isn't purple enough, although I do like "manchowder" when it appears here and there.
~ JBB
I'm not sure that additional context is needed to understand what's going on. She's smelling his hair and describing her impression of its odor.
The need for the context is simply:
Is she simply smelling his hair (which you now say is what it is) or is the smell of his hair reminiscent of something else?
So if she's simply smelling his hair, then "His hair smelled of salt and sweat" clearly says that. But "His hair was redolent of salt and sweat" could be followed by reminiscing about a time they spent making love on the beach. In the latter case, "redolent" would be the clearer choice.
Not that I'd use the word "redolent" anyway, but if all I wanted to describe was the smell of his hair I wouldn't use that word. Would it even show up as a synonym for "smell?"
ETA: it does show up as a synonym in Merriam-Webster.
Not that I'd use the word "redolent" anyway, but if all I wanted to describe was the smell of his hair
Except that a couple of sentences earlier she'd "smelled the salt on his skin," so I needed a different word.
I agree it's pretty clear that "redolent" can refer to something immediate, or evoke an earlier memory or experience.
~ JBB
Actually, if it reminiscent it would more likely be "His hair was redolent of active lovemaking: earth shattering, close, intimate and physical exhausting.
Again, we need to separate the literal from the rhetoric meanings of the word, or better still, combine them, each then emphasizing the other.
First meaning is "brings to mind".
What dictionary?
Merriam Webster lists:1: exuding fragrance : aromatic
2
a: full of a specified fragrance : scented
air redolent of seaweed
b: evocative, suggestive
a city redolent of antiquity
See bold above; even MW agrees with 'brings to mind'.
I must be weird; I'll use it about once every couple of months or so (and I speak to very few people).
See bold above; even MW agrees with 'brings to mind'.
For the second time. I was not disputing that 'brings to mind' is a definition of redolent. The person I was replying to (irvmull) said 'brings to mind' was the first definition. It's third in MW.
First meaning is "brings to mind".
My dead tree Concise Oxford Dictionary has 'strongly reminiscent or suggestive of' first, followed by 'strongly smelling of'.
I believe the COD follows the usual standard, whereby the meanings are listed in decreasing order of frequency of use.
AJ
Salt has a strong taste, while sweat has a strong, bitter taste/scent. So "His hair left a bitter, salty taste as he passed by."
As that's how metaphors are crafted, stating things rhetorically as things they aren't, forcing readers to stop and rethink the statement, seeing the truth in the works, and thus giving the statement that much more impact.
I'm non-English speaking and it's a new word for me, but if I had encountered it reading I wouldn't have stopped to look it up. Without further context I would assumed that the hair is messy somehow and leave it at that.
Without further context I would assumed that the hair is messy somehow and leave it at that.
Independent of what the different dictionaries say, "messy" is a reasonable general description of his hair, I think.
~ JBB
"Messy" is about as generic as you can get. Precise terms are more informative: ruffled, wind-blown, frazzled, mottled or full out knotted or twisted, like the men themselves are. ;)
Messy is the negative of the overly generic "good". Good for what? As opposed to the more specific soft, gentle, strong, scented, wonderful, elaborate, exciting or exotic.
So, if you want your writing to be bland and generic, then stick to the simplest, more boring terms. Again, the only point of using adverbs or adjectives is when they add value to the sentence. "Good", "bad" and "okay" are as non-descriptive as you can get, as they describe nothing at all (aside from not
It's an older term, used when men were often at sea or in foreign land for weeks/months or years, so they tended to reek of manliness. ;)
In those days, fresh water was rationed, as you couldn't access it, and if you were at sea too long, the seafarers would become ill (scurvy) and if the drank the seawater, they'd go mad.
Different time, different uses, different implications. (I've read many a classic sea voyage story in my day, living near several major U.S. ports.
Even then, the seawater in ports smells differently when it's incoming (fresh) or outgoing (stale, staid and often quite disgusting). Then there's the standing water, which is simply a mess, following you wherever you go (i.e. on your books, hands, clothing and everything you touch). Which is where the term "the smell of the sea" often comes from, as again, the open ocean smells different than a bay which itself smells differently than an enclosed port where it often reeks of the dead cast off of the fishing boats.
Sometimes, you dern city slickers have such a limited descriptive imagination. In the wilderness smells stick with you, in the grocery store, everything smells of recycled air-conditioned recycling units, with just a faint hint of overnight bleach cleaners.
I like "redolent", though I think I'd use "redolent with" there. It's a good word, much deeper connotations than a simple "smelled".
Writing to the lowest common denominator is how the denominator keeps going down. Never been a fan of Hemingway.
I'll add that my thinking here is that "redolent of salt and sweat" is saying that the scent reminds you of salt and sweat, while "redolent with salt and sweat" is saying that the scent of salt and sweat brings to mind how he got salty and sweaty, and "smelled of salt and sweat" is just a bland statement of fact.
Also, you wrote earlier in the paragraph that she "smelled the salt on his skin", so if I were revising, I'd be looking more to avoiding repeating that than dumbing down the vocabulary.
Don't forget, Hemingway was a foreign war correspondent, where you were charged to transit reports by the word. Plus, as a news reporter, he was focused on the "common man" reading exciting prose as opposed to the intellectuals aiming for the high-brow readers only.
Thus Hemingway was very clear-speaking, not subtle or nuanced. Plus, newspaper assignments had and still have specific word limits, so you can either fill it with ten-dollar words or pack it with easy to grasp terms. Being verbose doesn't pay any more, it only wastes in your time, which is why Yellow Journalism coined the term "If it bleeds, it leads".
Start with something exciting, as few ever read more than a few lines of any story.
I first encountered the word redolent in my mid-teens, about the same time I started writing sex stories. I won't say there was some cause-effect going on. At the same time I discovered "clitoris," the word, not the clitoris itself, and, like Daniel in one of the four stories of those I've posted to SoL in which I used "redolent," I mispronounced redolent in my head exactly the way I mispronounced clitoris.
Waiting for Owls
"Aha, the plot thickens," said Sara. "Were they redolent of cunt?"
"Redolent," said Daniel. "Nice word. I remember when I first encountered it I thought it was pronounced re-DOLE-ent. But yeah, a nice scent."
§
Gunga
"Yes. A very special blindfold." She held the slim piece of gray silk before Amanda's face. "You see, while you were out, I had Knut sit on the piano bench, facing away from the piano, and I wrapped this round and round his cock all the way up to the head, and then I sat on him, facing away, and fucked him. Oh it was lovely, the silk scrunching down and tickling me most deliciously. You'll have to try it some time. Anyway, we fucked that way, and I had so many marvelous comes, and then Knut had his come, a nice big one, and by the time we were finished, the scarf was thoroughly soaked with his stuff and my stuff. See?" She stretched the scarf out. It was redolent with sex, heavily splotched with stains of cum.
§
The Painting
"Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god," she whispered. "Oh, Richard, I have to suck you. I have to suck you right now."
"But we just—" Richard started to protest.
Already Zoë was on her knees in front of him. She had him unzipped, his handsome phallus out, yet moist with her moisture, redolent of her fuck-luscious sex scent, and now deep in her mouth.
§
Faith's Journal – The Horns of a Dilemma
My shoulders slumped. I sighed with disappointment and relief. Better get to the doctor then, silly, silly girl. But first I had to change my sodden panties. Only I had not another pair. So what do I do? Go to the doctor bare down there or with undies redolent of sex?
"Oh, Faith," I said to myself, gathering up what little courage resided in my still-quivering body, "you are such a naughty, naughty girl."
when I first encountered it I thought it was pronounced re-DOLE-ent. But yeah, a nice scent."
The scent of words, or the wordy scents vs the worldly scents.
"Oh my god, oh my god, oh my god," she whispered. "Oh, Richard, I have to suck you. I have to suck you right now."
Mixing curses and swear words with more sophisticated words doesn't particularly mix well, as the phrase "dumb c*nt" immediately springs to mind.
I don't see a problem with either.
The first is about someone who reminds others of salt and sweat. The second is about someone who actually smells that way.
The situation determines which would work better.
I prefer the first (more creative, less overused cliches). The second is easier to read, though personally, I've always preferred "His hair reeked of salty sweat."
"His hair reeked of salty sweat."
Ouch. I don't think she thought it was that bad. Makes me think of Reek in "Game of Thrones."
~ JBB
"Reek" is never a polite, kind word, yet after a hot and heavy round of sex (or sports), it does often apply, you just don't say it aloud (the whole pot calling the kettle black thing).
Though "You stink to high heavy!" is a very common usage.
"Reek" is never a polite, kind word, yet after a hot and heavy round of sex (or sports), it does often apply, you just don't say it aloud (the whole pot calling the kettle black thing).
Reek is both an Old English word and an Old Scottish word that both meant the same thing, 'smoke', however the English definition changed over time to mean 'smell' whilst the Scottish definition stayed the same.