Do you use brand names in your stories? Does saying a character drinks Dr Pepper as opposed to Coke say something about the character? In a story I'm reading on SOL, a character displayed "a bottle of that green sports drink." That took me out of the story because I don't know what "that green sports drink" is referring to.
Probably Gatorade or one of its imitators.
Generally it is safe to use brands in fiction as long as you don't libel them. In the movies, the brands even pay to have them shown.
Do you use brand names in your stories?
That depends. Sometimes, it's a strain to avoid it, other times there are easily understood generic terms and the brand doesn't matter.
For soda, it shouldn't be distracting to say cola or root beer or something like that rather than naming a brand.
To your example if it just said sports drink, I think that would have been fine. By going to "that green sports drink" the author is trying to reference a specific sports drink without using the brand name, and that's what's distracting.
Actually, if it's the protagonist's specific favorite drink, then being precise every single time he offers is (which is OFTEN), it would soon be endlessly annoying. So 'green sports drink' is often a welcome relief. Yet at that point, why not just go with "his drink" and forgetting which brand it even is?
Actually, if it's the protagonist's specific favorite drink, then being precise every single time he offers is (which is OFTEN), it would soon be endlessly annoying. So 'green sports drink' is often a welcome relief. Yet at that point, why not just go with "his drink" and forgetting which brand it even is?
Which is why I suggested that "sports drink" without the green modifier would be okay.
Quite a few "Cult of Apple" authors have referred to MacBooks, iPhones and other related products.
Actually, that's more of a character characterization (able to afford the more expensive expenditures, for focused on specific types of work, more common in certain locations). Especially if it's the one the author himself knows best, as not everyone uses the cheapest brand available.
So again, I simply see it as yet another story detail, for whatever reason they decided to include it.
Do you use brand names in your stories?
Sometimes - but I often use fictional brands as well.
Are you familiar with the term 'personal obsession'? Speaking of specific brand obsessions. I'm guess this is more a case of envy than a mere story component issue.
We each have our own crosses in bear in life, so often, the less said of those issues, the better for everyone. There's pointing out the obvious and then there's just picking on others to make yourself feel better about your crappy life. :(
I use plenty of brand names, most notably for restaurants but also other businesses, as well as Apple, IBM, Microsoft, etc.
While my story is set in an alternate universe, it's not (yet) so divergent that names vary.
I can't see any risk from doing so.
Some business names are fictionalized. Some are not. Some fictionalized names should probably not have been fictionalized, but I made different decisions earlier in writing. And some (local) businesses are fictionalized beyond name (e.g. one of the restaurants my characters visit every so often is a mishmash of two different Houston restaurants, not just a fictionalized version of one).
I agree: 'that green sports drink' is distracting. Similarly, I see little advantage in fictionalizing celebrities, politicians, or anyone else. If I had Mikey K. Faux starring in 'Back to the Future', what purpose does that serve? In an alternate universe, it's actually worse. I would either have to let the reader know it's 'the same guy' (but fictionalized), or 'a different guy' - in which case it's an actual, meaningful difference in my story's universe compared to the one we live in.
That particular example matters, since Michael J. Fox has wound up on-page as a character. Hopefully, if he becomes aware of my version of him, he likes it. But it's a fictionalized version in an alternate universe, anyway.
A general rule of thumb, if it's likely to cause trouble, fictionalize the specific name. Otherwise, just leave it as it is, as not every detail is a crisis.
I see little advantage in fictionalizing celebrities, politicians, or anyone else.
Unless it's in the Historical Fiction genre. In my novel "War Widows, I use real-life people and events in a fictional story.
But even in regular fiction, sometimes using a real person's name has merit. I just started watching the series "Doc." In the first episode, the MC is in a car accident and has memory loss. They're asking her questions to test her brain and asks who the president is. She sarcastically says FDR. But then she tries to give the real answer saying Barack Obama. The importance is that her current memory is that of 8 years ago.
I think we're having an agreement :) but maybe not with my phrasing.
When I said 'fictionalizing', I meant replacing the real name with a fictional one (e.g. my Mikey K. Faux example). I don't see much reason to do that. Use the real name, unless there's a good reason to avoid it.
'Pseudonymizing' would work, but that's a rather awful word :) They are certainly 'fictionalized', since I'm not relating an actual thing the actual Michael J. Fox did in our universe.
Typically, I use brand names. In my opinion they may (Should) offer insights to characters. For example, in a story I have a character who is contemplating getting out of the US Marine Corps; in particular he is inheriting a ranch (without cattle or horses) in Colorado, as well as other investments.
His uncle, a well-connected lawyer sends him to a particular men's suit maker shop in Denver, with a reputation for a style more suited to younger (30's) men, but not favored by the more staid older (50's+) Ranchers and "Old Money" of Denver. The uncle is making a calculation about whom his nephew should influence. I also named several restaurants and clubs trendy at the time. I don't know how many people who might read this story would be aware of these matters, but it set a tone for me as a writer. Plot points were highlighted, if to no one else, to me, by using these particular named establishments.
So too, "Name Brands" if not "Coke"/Coca-Cola, the RC, or Jolt cola, often infer things about a character who chooses them. Brooks Brothers suits, or a bespoke suit from Saville Row, better yet a particular tailor. Ford or Chevy, or a Range Rover, or a Mercedes, likely indicate certain things about a character. You take a risk that a reader might have a negative association about a Brand, that you didn't intend.
Back in the 1990's when I started writing (but did NOT post online) I was cautious about naming particular strip clubs, or other locations (especially "notorious" locations) because I was concerned that people might wonder how I knew of them. Now many strip clubs have a website. Google and other tools can allow a reader or writer to learn about details of locations; sometimes even what they were like in the past.
For example, as a young paratrooper I spent time down on Hay Street, in "FayetteNam" (Fayetteville, NC; near Fort Bragg). Now by the early 1980's it wasn't quite as rowdy as it had been even a few years earlier... but Rick's cabaret, or the Night Owl,,,
There are notorious dives in Tampa, near MacDill AFB, or Lakewood, near Tacoma, and Fort Lewis, and other bases.
It depends on the brand, the product and what you're using it for.
For example, if your character is buying a new car, their choice says something about them. Do they buy a generic SUV or supermini, which says they want something practical/cheap and don't really care about the car itself. Or do they buy a BMW or a Jaguar or a Range Rover, meaning they value image over cost. Even the particular model they buy can say something. In A Tortured Soul, Paul bought a sports version of a Ford Focus--he wanted a 'cool' car, so went for that over a bog standard version of the same car.
In the UK, "Coke" is the generic term for cola. In restaurants that serve Pepsi, they make a point of asking, 'Is Pepsi okay?' because literally everyone will ask for a Coke and not care which brand it is. Sellotape is a brand, but also the generic term for sticky tape - so not using the brand would be silly. Similarly, in the USA you would use "band-aid", whereas in the UK we'd just say "plaster". "Hoover" is another one where the brand name refers not just to products made by the Hoover company, but pretty much any vacuum cleaner (in the UK, at least) - so if your character makes a point of saying "I ran the Dyson over the hallway floor", it's worthwhile because it says something about them. As does "my iPhone" rather than "my mobile" or "my Macbook" rather than 'My laptop".
In short, there are two reasons for using a brand. 1) when the brand is in common usage as a generic term for all similar products and 2) when it says something about the character.
In the UK, "Coke" is the generic term for cola.
My understanding is that this also applies in the US south.
In short, there are two reasons for using a brand.
I would add a third. I think brands can also say useful/important things about the setting.
For example. There's a significant market in the US for larger vehicles, but those vehicles don't work well in Europe due largely to much older cities with narrow streets.
@Marc Nobbs
In the UK, "Coke" is the generic term for cola.
My understanding is that this also applies in the US south.
It's even more generic than that in the South. "Coke" is the generic term for any kind of soda. You'll get conversations like:
"Want a coke?"
"Sure, what have you got?"
"Mountain Dew, Sunkist, and Dr. Pepper."
"Coke" is the generic term for any kind of soda.
Where I grew up in NYC, "soda" was the generic for any kind of soft drink. When I moved to Arizona (in the 1970s) and used "soda" that way, they thought I was meaning club soda. I guess as in scotch and soda.
That is just the way things are in FL, GA, SC, AL, MS, LA, AR, parts of TX, TN, OK, and little bit of MO.
That is just the way things are in FL, GA, SC, AL, MS, LA, AR, parts of TX, TN, OK, and little bit of MO.
In case anyone askes
FL = Florida
GA = Georgia
SC = South Carolina
AL = Alabama
MS = Mississippi
LA = Louisiana
AR = Arkansas
TX = Texas
TN = Tennessee
OK = Oklahoma
MO = Missouri
but you can probably include in most if not all the state
NC = North Carolina
VA = Virginia
WV = West Virginia
KY = Kentucky
In MI = Michigan we reffer to it as Pop
'Pop' is also (per my experience, at least) accurate for IL (Illinois) and WI (Wisconsin). One needs to say it with a nasal accent in Wisconsin ('Pahp').
It's entirely possible that there's a regional difference in Southern Illinois (roughly: south of I-70). Southern Illinois is a very different place, culturally, in my experience.
Southern Illinois is a very different place, culturally
Southern Illinois - Cultural? Do they even go together in the same sentence?
'Pop' is also (per my experience, at least) accurate for IL (Illinois) and WI (Wisconsin). One needs to say it with a nasal accent in Wisconsin ('Pahp').
I live in southeastern Wisconsin and i'm 56. Born and raised in southeastern Wisconsin. In my experience, pop for soft drinks is extremely rare in Wisconsin, at least in the part of it I live in.
In MI = Michigan we reffer to it as Pop
That's what they called it in Arizona when I got here.
I experienced the use of soda as a generic in NYC & NJ back in the 60's & 70's. Then I ran into pop when I moved to Phoenix in '82.
In MI = Michigan we reffer to it as Pop
"Pop" was the term we used for all soft drinks growing up in the English Midlands (specifically in The Black Country) in the 70s & 80s. Haven't heard it used in that way since I left the area to go Uni in '93, and certainly not since I moved to Northamptonshire, which is only about 60 miles away.
The variations in the use of language in the UK are incredible, given that the country is smaller in area than Florida.
I mean, around the UK, there are about 20 different names for a small, crusty bread roll.
Haven't heard it used in that way since I left the area to go Uni in '93, and certainly not since I moved to Northamptonshire, which is only about 60 miles away.
And yet the term 'alcopop' appears to be national.
I wonder what term Americans use. Alcocoke? Alcosoda?
I mean, around the UK, there are about 20 different names for a small, crusty bread roll.
And how many words do Italians have for shaped pieces of dried wheat?
AJ
I wonder what term Americans use. Alcocoke? Alcosoda?
There are things like wine coolers, malt beverages, and hard lemonade or hard cider, but I don't think I've heard any umbrella term for these things. If such a term exists in the US, it's likely only among industry insiders.
I have heard the term 'alcopop' used in multiple regions of the US (at least Texas, Illinois, and California). The users were generally middle-age ('Gen X') and younger ('Gen Y', 'Millenial', 'Gen Z').
And yet the term 'alcopop' appears to be national.
I wonder what term Americans use. Alcocoke? Alcosoda?
I've never heard any of them. Though it may be something with the younger generations.
In restaurants that serve Pepsi, they make a point of asking, 'Is Pepsi okay?' because literally everyone will ask for a Coke and not care which brand it is.
That has something to do with a suit. I don't remember if it was Pepsi suing or Coca Cola.
It has something to do with exclusive contract deals between restaurants and Pepsi or Coca Cola.
It has something to do with exclusive contract deals between restaurants and Pepsi or Coca Cola.
An example would be Pizza Hut, where they always do this, which was, at one time owned by PepsiCo (I have no idea who owns it now and they announced a load of Pizza Hut closures last month).
I have no idea who owns it now
Yum! Brands, Inc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yum!_Brands
Yum! Brands, Inc. (sometimes called just Yum!) is an American multinational fast food corporation. It was formed in 1977 as a subsidiary of PepsiCo, after the company acquired KFC, Pizza Hut, and Taco Bell. PepsiCo divested the brands in 1997, and these consolidated as Yum!. The company operates KFC, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell, Habit Burger & Grill, and several technology companies.
1) when the brand is in common usage as a generic term for all similar products
Those are no longer brands. The companies lost their brand because people used them generically (not capitalizing) and the companies didn't do anything about it. Aspirin and thermos are good examples.
"Thermos" is definitely still a "brand" that you can buy.
Yeah, but the company lost its legal protection as a proprietary name due to genericide. https://www.jonesipl.com/article/genericide-the-transformation-of-thermos/
The pivotal legal battle over the "Thermos" trademark occurred in the United States. In 1963, the case King-Seeley Thermos Co. v. Aladdin Industries was heard, which centered on whether the term had become a generic term for vacuum flasks in the eyes of the consuming public. The court considered factors such as King-Seeley's marketing efforts and the extent of public use of "Thermos" as a generic term. Ultimately, the court determined that "Thermos" had become generic due to its common use by consumers and competitors.
This ruling meant that the exclusive trademark rights to the term were lost, allowing other companies to use the term to describe their vacuum flasks. This was a significant setback for Thermos LLC, the company that inherited the brand. It meant facing increased competition without the benefit of a unique brand name to distinguish its products.
This case demonstrates the critical importance of actively managing and protecting a trademark. It also highlights the inherent risks involved when a brand becomes so dominant in its category that its name becomes the generic term for similar products. For companies, it's a delicate balance between widespread brand recognition and the maintenance of trademark rights.
So when you use a brand name in a story, and that brand name has not been a victim of genericide like thermos, you should capitalize it. If you don't, you can get a knock on your door from the trademark holder's legal team. Highly unlikely for what we write and where we post, but why risk it?
So if the character in your story drinks a cola, that's fine. But if it's a Coke, it needs to be capitalized.
I use them "Can you get me a 7-Up?" Chain stores & restaurants, or national brands, why not. Makes it feel more lived in. OTOH I'm trying to avoid being obvious about the town where my novel is set, so I do fictionalize local businesses or schools.
I would. Generally, there's no reason to avoid it. It can't be in the title or promotional materials or it will be considered a trademark violation.
It can't be in the title or promotional materials or it will be considered a trademark violation.
Not true, at least not under US law. To be a trademark violation, it has to be being used to promote something in the same field where the trademark is registered.
Coke, for example, is a beverage and that is the space that it is trademarked in. They likely have trademarks for apparel on other merchandising areas to control the use of Coke in those spaces.
It's exceedingly unlikely that they have a trademark on Coke for the field of fiction.
So no, using Coke in the title of a story, or in promotional materials for that story would not be a violation of the trademark.
That's not quite how it works.
First, it's irrelevant if you would ultimately win if they set the lawyers on you. Second, In addition to infringement, there is also trademark dilution. You do not have to show consumer confusion for that. For very famous names like Coca-Cola and Walt Disney, they could absolutely claim dilution if they don't like your story. It's just a hassle.
This is all in the context of novels or short stories that aren't in any way commenting on the product.
My editor recently comments on this I used Kleenex vs tissue in a scene, its more natural. When you are writing its the small details like he lifted a cold can of Dr Pepper or sipping Old Milwaukee lager.
These cultural details help set time and place. It shows that the author cares enough to look these things up to think through Merlot vs Cab drinkers. Diet Coke drinking teen girls.
So yes, for me it matters and is quite fun to find that brand or name the evokes time and place or says something about the character.
My editor recently comments on this I used Kleenex vs tissue in a scene, its more natural. When you are writing its the small details like he lifted a cold can of Dr Pepper or sipping Old Milwaukee lager.
It also limits your target audience to the USA.
I know what Kleenex is - a premium (ie overpriced) brand in the UK. I've heard of Dr Pepper but I don't know of anyone who drinks it. I've never heard of Old Milwaukee lager so I have no idea whether it's supposed to be good or Stella Artois quality.
AJ
I think 'limits your target audience' is probably an overstatement. It presents a barrier to readers, but do does 'boot' for the 'trunk' of a car, for instance. Or any number of other British / American word uses or phrases. 'Biscuits' vs 'cookies' would be quite confusing to many Americans.
If the story is good, and doesn't depend on that sort of detail, people will gloss right over it. Of course, an author can throw in a hint about the quality level of Old Milwaukee as well.
And even 'lager' is a barrier to Muslim readers (who presumably have no idea what beer tastes like).
Or any number of other British / American word uses or phrases.
One that would be really confusing is "pissed." Angry (American) or drunk (UK). And "fanny" could be quite confusing. Buttocks (Amer) and female genitalia (UK). Let's not even talk about "fag."
I think 'limits your target audience' is probably an overstatement.
I don't think so. If the story is written in American vernacular, intentional or not, Americans are the author's target. Other nationalities may be able to read the story, gloss over the unexplained cultural references, and hopefully even enjoy the story but they won't get the full-fat experience.
AJ
I don't think so. If the story is written in American vernacular, intentional or not, Americans are the author's target.
Wouldn't the same be true of a story set in England using English vernacular? Or in France using French Vernacular?
Personally, I finds stories devoid of any specific setting to be unappealing.
Wouldn't the same be true of a story set in England using English vernacular? Or in France using French Vernacular?
Absolutely. I've received such feedback from readers who were reading my stories despite the Britishisms.
AJ
If the story is written in American vernacular, intentional or not, Americans are the author's target.
Don't tell that to Hollywood when they distribute globally.
In fact, I believe it's American movies that make American English understood globally.
In fact, I believe it's American movies that make American English understood globally.
Is it, or do audiences just gloss over those bits while waiting for the next explosion/car chase/gunfight etc?
AJ
It also limits your target audience to the USA.
Speaking as an American who grew up reading Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett and watching Doctor Who and Monty Python... only if your target audience is "people who don't want to learn things". And I don't write for people who don't want to learn things.
"people who don't want to learn things"
Where did that come from? I certainly never said it.
AJ
"people who don't want to learn things"
Where did that come from? I certainly never said it.
I believe it had to do with your "target audience" comment. The implication is that if someone is not familiar with something in your story (say a brand name) then they aren't your target audience because they won't understand your story. What I believe BlacKnight meant was that those people should look it up (learn it).
A famous author once said something like: People say "write what you know", but I say "write what you don't know" and do the research so that you'll learn something new.
The implication is that if someone is not familiar with something in your story (say a brand name) then they aren't your target audience
I consider that a given. If an author chooses to use umpteen local brand names in their story, that story is going to be more accessible to natives of that locale.
Having to break out of the story to look up brand names is on a par with having to look up thousand dollar words not in common vocabulary or look up a photo of a named model to see what a character looks like.
AJ
Actually I enjoy looking up words, phrases, and names I am unfamiliar with. It is a way expand my mind. I particularly enjoy following around a foreign country in Google Earth. Jody Daniel and Tedbiker are both very good at giving good route information and descriptions.
Jody Daniel and Tedbiker are both very good at giving good route information and descriptions.
I did some Street View trips following along with Tedbiker stories.
Actually I enjoy looking up words, phrases, and names I am unfamiliar with. It is a way expand my mind. I particularly enjoy following around a foreign country in Google Earth. Jody Daniel and Tedbiker are both very good at giving good route information and descriptions.
One of the advantages of reading a book in Kindle is being able to look up words along the way at the touch of a finger.
Too bad that wasn't available in 1996 when I read Lying in Bed, a fine and erotic novel by J. D. Landis. The main character is a linguist and the novel contains many dozens of words I was not familiar with. I went to the unabridged dictionary at the local library with a list of those words. Not knowing the definitions at the time I was immersed in the novel did not, as I remember, substantially reduce my enjoyment.