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Age Limits in Stories

XofDallas 🚫
Updated:

Just double-checking something to be sure. What is the minimum age limit for characters involved in erotic or sexual acts? I've indicated to one author that I will try continuing his story (a coming of age D/s story), where most of the younger characters are 17, but where one is 15 and one is 14. The issue is important to any continuation of that story, but is also important with respect to virtually any coming-of-age story with erotic or sexual content.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@XofDallas

What is the minimum age limit for characters involved in erotic or sexual acts?

14 years old on SOL.

FantasyLover 🚫

@XofDallas

Make sure of the legal age where you live. You can be arrested in some countries for writing about what they consider underage sex. IIRC, EB ran afoul of the morality police there.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@FantasyLover

EB ran afoul of the morality police there.

Australia, for those who don't know.

Also, the age of consent is not necessarily enough. There are countries (the US included) where the age cut off for what's considered CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is/can be higher than the age of consent.

Though fortunately in the US this is limited to actual images of actual children.

There are US states where the age of consent is 16 or 17. But child porn under federal law is under 18. So you can very much have a situation where you have a girlfriend or boyfriend who it's legal for you to have sex with, but taking nude pictures of them can be a federal felony.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@Dominions Son

Though fortunately in the US this is limited to actual images of actual children.

Unless you are prosecuted for obscenity. Then you have to pass the Miller test.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Unless you are prosecuted for obscenity.

Which wouldn't be a prosecution for child porn and the age would be of minimal relevance.

Mushroom 🚫

@XofDallas

Just double-checking something to be sure. What is the minimum age limit for characters involved in erotic or sexual acts?

Actually described, fourteen.

In a few stories I have had characters under fourteen, but it was also never actually "on screen", but something that happened outside of the actual narration. Never anything graphic at all, other than their mentioning "I did it with XXX last week", and they were not the main character at all but a side character.

A kind of a loophole I admit, but I do not have them having sex in the story, simply mentioning that they had with no details at all. And I also do not consider just kissing to be a "sex act", so have had them do that a time or two, but nothing else.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Mushroom

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it. First off, "did it with" can mean a lot of different things (intercourse, oral, make out or just some random kid bragging about something he's never actually done). Plus, you were right, there is no description of the actual act, just a casual reference to it.

Now, if the kid keeps making that or similar claims throughout the story, then you'd be 'painting a picture of repeated underage sex', where it's more complicated.

Normally the 'off-screen' rule describes a random event in their pasts which describes what made them respond how they do (i.e. references to rape, parental abuse, going on the lamb or just being 'troubled'), whereas a continuing list establishes a 'well-established pattern or criminal activity. It's still covered by the 1st Amendmentβ€”though currently, that doesn't mean what it once did in a while varity of previously 'free' countries.

So if you just make a single reference, no prosecutor is likely to make a big campaign over it, after all, they're trying to promote anger about the outrageous actions. And currently, there's a bigger outrage over transgendered 'people'.

And of course, since no one ever scans stories offenses for keywords (other than cases like the one on SOL recently, where someone in a country where it's not even a crime, decided to threaten to expose sites supporters. Which again, was a completely bogus, empty threat).

XofDallas 🚫

@XofDallas

Under Texas law, as far as I can determine, receiving or possessing "visual"child sexual abuse material is illegal, and "visual" material can include pictures and videos, including AI-generated materials and hentai. As far as non-visual materials, it seems things would be okay. Age of consent is 17, and there's also a "within 3-years" rule as long as the party is 14 or older.

So, my take on it is that even AI-generated pictures or hentai of a character purported in the story to be under 17, might be a problem in Texas. If age is not specified (and the pic is not obviously of someone under 17), or the age is specified as 17 or over, you'd probably be okay. The other nuance I have is that portraying someone as scantily clad is not "child sexual abuse material." Genitalia, female breasts and possibly bdsm activities would seem to be fair game for the thought police.

For purely written works, it looks like the 14 age limit works well

Dominions Son 🚫

@XofDallas

So, my take on it is that even AI-generated pictures or hentai of a character purported in the story to be under 17, might be a problem in Texas.

The US Congress attempted to pass a ban on "virtual child porn" in the late 1990s. The US Supreme Court unanimously rejected this in 2003. Explicitly refusing to extend the First amendment exception they had created beyond actual images of actual children.

In my opinion, it is highly likely that the Texas law will be overturned the first time someone is convicted under it and appeals their conviction.

Replies:   Radagast
Radagast 🚫

@Dominions Son

The process is the punishment, something people who can't afford to to fund a multi-year set of legal appeals through to SCOTUS should keep in mind. Even with god, the angels and original constitutional text on their side, they may still never get to court. For example, SCOTUS has failed to hear cases about states ignoring it's 2nd Amendment rulings since Justice Scalia's late night encounter with a pillow.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@XofDallas

Age of consent is 17

A picture of a naked child may constitute illegal child pornography if it is sufficiently sexually suggestive. Additionally, the age of consent for sexual activity in a given state is irrelevant; any depiction of a minor under 18 years of age engaging in sexually explicit conduct is illegal.

XofDallas 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

Sorry, I should have clarified. Age of consent in Texas for sexual activity is 17 (I'll leave it to the reader to look up what sexual activity is in Texas for purposes of age of consent laws - I don't want to drill too deep into the issue. Pun intended).

The issue of "pictures" is a separate issue. I raised it here only because a lot of stories now come with pictures or drawings.

Replies:   AmigaClone
AmigaClone 🚫

@XofDallas

The issue of "pictures" is a separate issue. I raised it here only because a lot of stories now come with pictures or drawings.

Two image rules:

h) Stories with characters under 18 cannot have images of said characters (even if clothed, or AI-generated).
i) If you upload anything that is considered child porn we will report you to the authorities.

XofDallas 🚫

@AmigaClone

Thanks for the info. :)

awnlee jawking 🚫
Updated:

@AmigaClone

h) Stories with characters under 18 cannot have images of said characters (even if clothed, or AI-generated)

Is that SOL rules and, if so, do they apply to other World Literature sites?

Some of the children's classics being uploaded to Bookapy have images of characters under 18 on their covers.

ETA Pollyanna!

AJ

Replies:   Grey Wolf
Grey Wolf 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I wonder if the intent of 'h' was that 'stories' meant 'stories with sexual content involving characters under 18', but it was inadequately spelled out. That would make a lot of sense.

But even that is questionable; there are books on ZBookStore with a picture that is certainly implied to be a character in the story (novel title contains a character name; image matching the character description appears on the cover). Which ones are left as an exercise for the reader, but it took me under a minute to find some. They are fully clothed, and not photorealistic, but are still images. And they are characters who are involved in sex in the story. Now, it's possible that the cover picture is, in fact, intended to be some other person (in the story or not), but that seems like a dodge.

I suppose it is possible that the 'Image rules' section applies to 'illustrations' and not to 'covers'. That would explain the 'glitch' here.

At least one of the ZBookStore stories is also on SoL with the same cover, so the SoL rule any would apply.

At least in my opinion, the notion that a fully clothed, nonsexual image of a character or characters in a story, underaged or not, would be a problem for the site seems unlikely. My first thought for a hypothetical cover for any of my books would be to feature one or more characters, and they would be underaged until Book 5 (most likely).

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Grey Wolf

Sorry, but 'implied' doesn't convey any legal standard, as many 'child actors' around the world are adults, and a photo doesn't mean the character is even the one who supposedly commits the act, as in the case of the Lolitta cover (i.e. it's legally meaningless).

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Except, most locations have 'ranges' rather than hard-and-fast age restrictions, thus the standard (In Canada) is 14, whereas in the states, you can't really prosecute a teenager who's only dating another teen, especially if it's with the parents consent. Thus they tend to stipulate the age ranges, usually only a few years difference as long as they're all under 17.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

Except, most locations have 'ranges' rather than hard-and-fast age restrictions

You missed my point. The age of consent has nothing to do with child porn.

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@XofDallas

The 'visual representation of sexual abuse' concerning cartoons is part of the 'smells like' view of child pornography. So judges can therefore make their own call concerning such cases. It could be overturned on appeal, yet by then it'd already be hard to recover from such accusations whether it goes to court or not.

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