Forum: Author Hangout

Rant about the pharmaceutical companies

Switch Blayde 🚫

I always accepted that the drug companies needed to have high prices for new drugs to cover the R&D to develop those drugs. No longer.

I went to my cornea eye surgeon today. She told me about an eye drop for dry eyes that is new. Well, new in the U.S. It's been available over-the-counter in Europe. Bausch and Lomb bought the patent here (or something like that) and is selling it as a prescription in the U.S. But it's not covered by insurance and is $2,000 a bottle. And a bottle lasts about a month. So $24,000/year for something that's over-the-counter in Europe.

That's bullshit!

Rant over.

Replies: The Outsider Vincent Berg Pixy awnlee jawking DBActive

The Outsider 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Rant away! I'll add the BS the American Diabetes Association is spewing when they claim "KiDs NeeD CarbS tO gROw!"

My T1D eats less carbs in a WEEK than the ADA says kids need in one MEAL! And his A1c is so low it's not even on the endocrinologist's chart of A1c levels.

An insulin manufacturer's CEO was just quoted as calling diabetes a "growth industry…"

Replies: ystokes

ystokes 🚫

@The Outsider

An insulin manufacturer's CEO was just quoted as calling diabetes a "growth industry…"

I am on two insulins that are capped at $35 a month each and until this year I was also taking two diabetes medications Jaidence and Januvia that were at also $35 a month, than the cost became $250 a month each. I really hope they like paying the hospital bill instead.

Replies: Crumbly Writer

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@ystokes

Well, there's also 'Medical Tourism', where, like with Canada, you fly down to the Caribbean and get cheaper premium medical treatment with NO relation to the U.S. Medical decrees. I've known several people who've done that for VERY major conditions. And since many of the Caribbean nations are linked the European countries, they also have access to those medicines and practices too.

You'd like have trouble arranging a trip like that, yet it's worth considering IF you can manage it.

Vincent Berg 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Try searching Canadian mail-order pharmacies. Or homeopathic treatments. No insurer will cover those costs, yet the medications are usually cheap enough you won't need the extra coverage. I've been using them for the last … forty-five years.

The bigger issue is that, currently, the pharmacological industries would rather prolong conditions than resolve them, as 'curing' anything is seen as a financial loss. That's why happens when you operate from a cost-control profitability rather than a 'first do no harm' basis.

Replies: The Outsider DBActive

The Outsider 🚫

@Vincent Berg

Then, there are the insurance companies here in the US that expect you to get better based on some cockamamie schedule they've dreamed up!

No guarantees in medicine…

Replies: Crumbly Writer

Crumbly Writer 🚫

@The Outsider

Due to my multiple-overlapping conditions, I've always taken a proactive role in my medical care. And anytime I encounter a physician who won't listen to me, I'll walk out and never return.

However, there are many, most foreign-born medical experts, who aren't complete raving A-holes. But you have to know what you're talking about. But typically, I'll walk in and say "I following the proscribed treatment for the typical adjustment period, but I had the following symptoms, so I did X, Y and Z, and it's working much better." If you depend on your doctor to do everything for you, you're completely dependent on them. But when you earn their trust by actively working together, you earn their respect.

However, you have to demand that respect, of yourself and them.

Replies: The Outsider

The Outsider 🚫

@Crumbly Writer

Advocate, advocate, advocate…

I totally agree…

DBActive 🚫

@Vincent Berg

the pharmacological industries would rather prolong conditions than resolve them, as 'curing' anything is seen as a financial loss.

That is bullshit.
Almost all the infectious diseases which took hundreds of thousands of lives in the past have been eliminated either through vaccination or treatment. What are they supposed to cure? Heart disease is largely caused by lifestyle issues and modern medical treatments deal with the intractable issues when people won't make the lifestyle changes.
Cancer? A thousand different diseases that can affect anyplace in the body in different ways. And there are "cures" for many types of cancer.
What are you looking for? A magic pill or shot that eliminates all problems from your body?

Replies: Vincent Berg

Vincent Berg 🚫

@DBActive

I was discussing RECENT U.S.A. medical decisions, Not those when the American Medical care was still one of the best.

Yes, we once had a wonderful medical system, but now, most medications are simply for 'maintaining' the conditions. And that was specifically driven by the Pharmacological companies. But as always, you want to see the actual documentation while I tend to view 'trends'. So the pharmacological countries WON'T publicly admit the effect they're forcing on people's lives.

But the BIG diseases rely on the science, not the funding. And if the science isn't ready, then no amount of funding will make ANY difference. Yet when it is, then suddenly everything just comes together. So historically, you'll have decades of research funding (on the MAJOR conditions) and suddenly you'll get massive sweeping changes close together.

But yet again, we never seem to agree, so why bother arguing the details when they AREN'T any acknowledgments of it.

Pixy 🚫

@Switch Blayde

There is a new scam in the UK, where Investment Firms buy up veterinary practices and immediately double (at least) the cost of all treatments and medicines at that practice.

The IF also 'gamify' treatment, in that they award 'points' to all the practices in their portfolio. Giving points to the practice for treatments carried out, with certain medical interventions gaining higher points than other treatments. At the end of the month, practices with the highest points gain perks, like either financial staff bonuses or corporate away days, money towards the Christmas party, etc etc.

Totally unexpectedly, this has led to treatments being carried out that are not required, or not in the patients best interest.

Also, totally unexpectedly, this has led to an increase in otherwise healthy animals being put down because their owners can no longer afford treatment for previously affordable conditions.

Even more totally unexpectedly, is that Vet's are now pushing their clients into pre-payment and insurance policies, where if they pay monthly 'insurance', they will gain a 50% reduction in the cost of medicine/treatment at the practice. 50% off bills that increased 100% when the practice was taken over. An absolute bargain!

And the vets whose practices are being bought out? Non disclosure agreements and caveat's that if they leave the practice, they are not allowed to set up competing practices within one hundred miles.

Ahh, the joyous smell of capitalism and how it enriches all our lives.

Replies: Bondi Beach

Bondi Beach 🚫

@Pixy

There is a new scam in the UK, where Investment Firms buy up veterinary practices and immediately double (at least) the cost of all treatments and medicines at that practice.

The IF also 'gamify' treatment, in that they award 'points' to all the practices in their portfolio.

Happening in the U.S. as well with hedge funds.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I went to my cornea eye surgeon today. She told me about an eye drop for dry eyes that is new. Well, new in the U.S. It's been available over-the-counter in Europe. Bausch and Lomb bought the patent here (or something like that) and is selling it as a prescription in the U.S. But it's not covered by insurance and is $2,000 a bottle. And a bottle lasts about a month. So $24,000/year for something that's over-the-counter in Europe.

Donald Trump is blaming Europe for inflated US pharmaceutical pricing and has implemented large tariffs as punishment :-(

AJ

Replies: Dominions Son Switch Blayde

Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Donald Trump is blaming Europe for inflated US pharmaceutical pricing and has implemented large tariffs as punishment

You wouldn't be able to order prescription drugs from Europe anyway.

A few years back people were trying that with Canada. The Canadian government quashed Canadian pharmacies selling price controlled drugs to US residents.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Dominions Son

I believe the Donald was railing against how much European pharmaceutical companies charged US healthcare providers.

AJ

Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Donald Trump is blaming Europe for inflated US pharmaceutical pricing and has implemented large tariffs as punishment :-(

Are you sure about that? I heard the opposite. That he is trying to force U.S. prices to match the lowest price it can be found elsewhere, like from Europe or Canada.

Replies: jimq2 awnlee jawking Dominions Son

jimq2 🚫

@Switch Blayde

You have to remember that Canada and most of Europe subsidizes all things medical.

awnlee jawking 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

Are you sure about that?

Reasonably. The papers said that some pharmaceutical companies were shifting manufacturing to the US to avoid the tariffs.

ETA AstraZeneca is building a manufacturing plant in the US, but they were going to do that anyway because the UK govt wouldn't give it a big enough bung. I vaguely remember another company moving some manufacturing from Mexico to the US too.

That doesn't mean you're wrong. In fact it would be very sensible for The Donald to adopt a multi-pronged approach.

AJ

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I don't think the tariffs and the drug prices are connected.

The drug price issue includes US companies as well, who sell at higher prices in the US than in other countries due to either subsides or price controls in other countries.

Dominions Son 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Are you sure about that? I heard the opposite. That he is trying to force U.S. prices to match the lowest price it can be found elsewhere, like from Europe or Canada.

And not just the foreign pharmaceutical companies. US based pharmaceutical companies as well.

Replies: ystokes

ystokes 🚫

@Dominions Son

And not just the foreign pharmaceutical companies. US based pharmaceutical companies as well.

I truly doubt he means it. In 2022 most Senate Republicans killed the cap on insulin costs and there is nothing about lowering costs in the Big Bill being voted on now.

DBActive 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

Are you speaking of xiidra eye drops?
They aren't sold in Europe.
If not, you are comparing Evotears Omega with the US drug Meibo. The cost of Meibo is high - $750 -$900 per month on GoodRX

But, on the general issue:
There are major differences in the drug market for many drugs in the US from Europe.
- If it is permitted to sell a drug OTC the price will always be much lower; its simply a matter of scale. The FDA has much stricter rules requiring prescriptions on numbers of drugs that are OTC elsewhere. The marketing, record keeping and distribution costs for prescription drugs are much much higher than OTC products.
- Liability. It is guaranteed that any new drug with any possible side effects will be subject to a myriad of lawsuits. That isn't true in Europe.

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@DBActive

Are you speaking of xiidra eye drops?

No.

My eye doc said Miebo. She will give me a sample on my next visit (next week).

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Forum: Author Hangout

Rant about the pharmaceutical companies

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