Looking for any site that will allow stories with characters under the age of 18 (15 average). Any suggestions?
Looking for any site that will allow stories with characters under the age of 18 (15 average). Any suggestions?
Couldn't mention another site even if I knew one. That is why there are so many mentions of the 'big river' in the forum.
Just in case you guys think that I don't really read the forum, I do. I delete the threads depending on the context.
Which is for the best, as those hoping to skirt SOL's rules, don't help those who've long posted and published here. Thus, do whatever you need to and let the whiners find anywhere else they can find, but none are as open and supportive as SOL is. So, hopefully they'll be satisfied with whatever cesspool they find so they can happily feast beneath the slime.
You're either a part of the community or you were never a part of it to begin with. So, let forth your vengeance, as we'll sit back, continuing writing as we appreciate the free show. ;)
At the risk of bending the site-mentioning rules, there is a fiction publishing site that references an animal I (purely coincidentally - I have no connection with the site) have as part of my author name, combined with another word for tavern (and, pun-wise, obviously suited to publishing). It has no age limitations, I believe.
As noted above, while SoL had a brief panic where it appeared it might change to be 18+, the rules remain what they have been for a long time - 14+. So, if your '15 average' doesn't include, say, a 13-year-old and a 17-year-old, you're good.
My own story includes several 14-year-olds. All pairings would have been legal age-wise in 1980s Texas (where the bulk of my story is set). Some pairings would not be legal for other reasons (the 'sodomy law').
At the risk of bending the site-mentioning rules, there is a fiction publishing site that references an animal I (purely coincidentally - I have no connection with the site) have as part of my author name, combined with another word for tavern (and, pun-wise, obviously suited to publishing). It has no age limitations, I believe.
Sadly, it appears they are at present closed to new submissions.
In the end, anyone who relies on kiddy-porn alone, isn't who we want here, as the law, ANYWHERE, will come down hard to such sites, and desevedly so. So the SOL authors would rather have a stable, safe environment, as the pedophiles will soon find themselves in jail where no-one appreciates pedophiles there, since most have kids of their own.
The lifespan of pedophiles in prison is notoriously short, and no one is likely to report their assault. I've seen it happen to others, trying to skate by the rules. It NEVER works out in the extremely short end.
The youngest is eleven, the oldest is 19. All girls. Average age is 14.8 yrs. 115 stories, 3700 words each average. Just wondering if someplace might sell it as an E-Book or something.
The youngest is eleven, the oldest is 19. All girls. Average age is 14.8 yrs. 115 stories, 3700 words each average. Just wondering if someplace might sell it as an E-Book or something.
Lulu won't knowingly take anything with under-18 characters, nor will Amazon or Apple Books either, I think.
You may slide by without mentioning anything about actual ages, so if the age is essential to the story and essential that the reader knows it specifically, you probably won't get it published by any of the biggies.
Lulu won't knowingly take anything with under-18 characters, nor will Amazon or Apple Books either, I think.
I laugh because Amazon Kindle has a categorical ban on:
Products related to human tragedies and natural disasters
And yet you can buy Mayday Air Disasters and Air Crash Investigations along with innumerable books about human tragedies and natural disasters.
The also have a categorical ban on:
Products depicting children or characters resembling children in a sexually suggestive manner
But you can buy Lolita and A Song of Ice and Fire which clearly violate that rule, along with innumerable teen sex comedies.
And of course, to complete the trifecta:
Products that promote, incite, or glorify hate or violence towards any person or group.
But you can buy Mein Kampf.
I am genuinely surprised that G Younger has been able to consistently publish Stupid Boy and other series on SouthAmericanRiverSite that have all manner of under-18s banging.
Unless there's a complaint, I suspect it goes completely under their radar. I've considered publishing there, and suspect it would go fine (based on e.g. G Younger's success).
There are a number of cases where what a site actually publishes seems to not align with stated policies. That makes it tricky to figure out what is actually allowed in practical terms versus what is nominally allowed.
Again, they're warnings rather than prohibitions, but it's best to know the penalties if you violate those warnings. There are ways to avoid those, yet only if you're already familiar with those.
Years ago, I knew some gay authors who loved post gay pedophilia stories, and despite my warnings, most ended up in jail, and were never heard from again (most inmates have families they care for, whatever their occupation may be). So again, precede cautiously, at least testing the waters before diving off cliffs into shallow waters.
That site has some particular aspects to it, as they never review content, instead relying on user complaints, as which they'll completely ban you and your IRL, usually for life.
So, if you give your ample warning of the whole stories content is (ex: two siblings being attracted to each other yet merely flitting for some time), then any who aren't 'into that', can stop reading, before they even reach the parts they could object to.
Yet, I've repeatedly suggested that to many authors, yet most simply shrug, saying "Nah!", only to later pay the piper. So again, it's always worked for me, but ...
I am genuinely surprised that G Younger has been able to consistently publish Stupid Boy and other series on SouthAmericanRiverSite that have all manner of under-18s banging.
From what I can see, they only respond to complaints. I have two books there with light editing (GM1 and GM2). I plan to add CTL books at some point (again, lightly edited). CTL has extremely limited underage characters; GM also is limited until GM5. AWLL is a whole nuther thing altogether.
I am genuinely surprised that G Younger has been able to consistently publish Stupid Boy and other series on SouthAmericanRiverSite that have all manner of under-18s banging.
I had two novels with characters under the age of 18 having sex so I didn't put them on KDP. When SOL had the underage scare, I modified one by removing the specific 16-yo age and upping the age of the other character. It now complied with KDP's rules so I published it there. It sold like gangbusters. Don't ask me why. The only thing I can think of is that people are following me on KDP so when I publish something new they are notified.
But the age of the character in my other novel that's not on KDP can't be changed. Although in most of the novel she's 18 or older, it begins with her being 16. What you're saying is, I can get away with that on KDP. But I am still afraid that if I ruffle Amazon's feathers, they will not only take down that novel but all my others. And probably delete my account. It's just not worth the risk.
Again, it's two entirely different types of readers. Which again, for me at least, I prefer completing the book and then posting, as it's easier to revise than it is to change an ongoing story (with sometimes unpredictable results).
KDP reader, like all published stories, tend to read the entire story at once, while many prefer the more extended postings, as it helps to draw out the story as well as develop the anticipation for each story (which is much better for unexpected story twists, where readers have time to imagine what'll likely happen, and thus are truly surprised by the more significant twists.
A little literary psychology there, for anyone who gives a damn. ;)
I totally get it. I'm reviewing my Off The Deep End right now to see what I can do to make it KDP palatable since Bookapy sales have failed completely off since there's sexual contact between under 18s.
Which by the way, is complete bullshit. Apart from the sex between underage characters in mainstream big publisher YA books, 'literary' authors like Australian Tim Winton have explicit discussion of 14yo getting to second base and then the smell of their accidental ejaculation.
But KDP will just ban an indie author.
Which by the way, is complete bullshit.
Down the river sells electronic copies of a dead tree horror novel in which the protagonist/antagonist has sex with a 13yo girl.
Different rules for them and us :-(
AJ
Please, lay off the theatrics! There are ways to better present stories. Again, proper labeling and properly preparing readers are necessary, so they won't be surprised by the content and register those complaints.
The problem is that many just don't care about the risk, and prefer throwing caution to the wind and do whatever they were going to anyway. So, you pay your dues and take your chances, the same as the rest of us. So when it comes time to pay your dues, don't come crying to the rest of us. You knew the risks going in, and a little planning can easily resolve those risks.
It's not like no one can possibly predict those complaints, as it's completely predictable. So when you play with fire, prepare to get singed.
It's not like KDP is the only outlet available, but sometimes you have to modify the submissions based on the site's TOCs (Terms & Conditions), which are clearly labeled, yet few of us every bother to read.
Amazon is about as flexible as you could ask for, yet if drop a firebomb in your own lap, don't be surprise when it does. As always, you takes your changes and live with the results. Capisce? Continually whining about it just pisses EVERYONE off.
Once again, if you need some help coping, just ask, yet just be prepared for others to hold you feet the fire when it's deserved.
See, this is why I don't use my actual name in these posts, as honesty often pisses people off, and 'helpful suggestions' nearly always does. There's no reason to accept my suggestions, as it is your story and thus it's no skin off my nose if it goes awry.
Again, I'm sympathetic, but sometimes the theatrics just get tiresome, as they really serve no purpose.
Except, Amazon has NEVER scanned submitted test, relying entirely on user complains, when ensuring those complaining will never see those post/submissions again! They know who's paying their bills and who's merely abusing their privileges.
The 'river site' has NO restrictions, and they is plenty of hard-core porn, yet if anyone posts a complaint, you'll be kicked off the site, with little chance of returning unless to claim an all-new bogus identity. Which are easily spotted, and reported, by SOL members.
So, good luck with that. There are ways of circumventing that, yet I'm guessing the question has no interest in 'cleaning up' their act, even for a single chapter or two.
The dumbasses deserve the harsh results.
The 'river site' has NO restrictions, and they is plenty of hard-core porn, yet if anyone posts a complaint, you'll be kicked off the site,
From KDP content guidelines:
Offensive content
We don't sell certain content including content that we determine is hate speech, promotes the abuse or sexual exploitation of children, contains pornography, glorifies rape or pedophilia, advocates terrorism, or other material we deem inappropriate or offensive.
I don't know if this is the same as the other "river" publishing or publications, and it may certainly be true that they don't check until and unless someone complains, but they do in fact have content restrictions.
I figure someplace there has to be a site like a porn store, where you can buy things pornographic, including Ebooks. Still looking, so any suggestions, please do!
ZBookstore. Linked from the SOL homepage. You can purchase pornographic eBooks there.
But not under 16 years old. (if 16 and the author follows the rules, it is listed as "Extreme Contents". Maybe 17 is "Extreme Contents" too, I don't remember. But my 16-year-old one is "Extreme Contents")
Just because it has graphic sex doesn't make it pornographic. Just saying.
Zbookstore has the same terms and restrictions as SOL does, as I've long use their original site, and the vast majority are still there (i.e. except those I 'unpublished' (retired) myself).
>"Just because it has graphic sex doesn't
> make it pornographic. Just saying.
And any author/novelist who can't write a decent plot or story arc, won't lost for long anyway. SOL provides plenty of room to hang yourself, as well as plenty of opportunity to build a dedicated following. As long as you play by the rules, that is!
And any decent story normally has a wide variety of characters, not just randy old men and small, vulnerable children. So don't ask us to support your own utter stupidity.
As always, the take changes and you pay the consequences. That works equally everywhere in life. There are always nebulous, questionable sites and locations, yet they're usually heavily monitored by a wide variety of sources, no official and non-official.
Zbookstore has the same terms and restrictions as SOL does,
14 years old = SOL
16 years old = ZBookStore
SOL is just not going to work. ZBookStore states that the content cannot violate Canada's bill C-46, which states no explicit sex under 18.
ZBookStore states that the content cannot violate Canada's bill C-46, which states no explicit sex under 18.
When you publish on ZBookStore, you have to select an "adult content." That's basically the age of the target audience. The most severe one is called "Extreme." At the bottom, it says: "**Extreme contents is sexual contents with non-adult characters or containing incest or bestiality. Books with extreme contents cannot be distributed through external book stores and can't be sold using some payment options."
"Non-adult" is under 18. So what you're quoting must be a mistake.
The Bookapy/Zbookstore submission system needs to be updated I guess to remove such contradictions.
This is the page containing the definitive rules:
https://zbookstore.com/doc/content-standards
Yeah, some payment options, like Amazon, while restricts such content, yet only responds to active use complaints, which supplies a LOT of latitude as long as you play it smart of not purposely trying to actively piss readers off. But as long as you sell on ZBookStore, you should be in the clear. For external sources, you'll need to check their particularly Terms of Service (TOS) restrictions.
Per a careful reading of Canada's bill C-46 (disclaimer: I am not a lawyer), it says no such thing. The relevant section is 136.1 Child Pornography, and the relevant clauses are:
(b) any written material, visual representation or audio recording that advocates or counsels sexual activity with a person under the age of eighteen years that would be an offence under this Act;
(c) any written material whose dominant characteristic is the description, for a sexual purpose, of sexual activity with a person under the age of eighteen years that would be an offence under this Act;
It is not 'an offence under this Act' for two fourteen-year-olds to have sex. Under C-46, the age of consent is 16, and there is a close-in-age exemption for 14 and 15-year-olds, meaning that if someone is 14 or 15, they can legally engage in sexual activity with someone who is no more than 5 years older. So, if your story has a 14-year-old and an 18-year-old, that's fine under C-46.
Clause (b) is irrelevant for most SoL material. Little of it 'advocates or counsels' anyone to do anything.
Clause (c) would exclude virtually anything long-form. If there's more story than sex, it's hard to claim the 'dominant characteristic' is sex.
And all of that is irrelevant, since the Supreme Court of Canada has let stand a lower court ruling holding that the law's treatment of written erotica is overbroad and there is no criminal offense even with younger ages, as long as the work isn't endorsing or promoting pedophilia. See https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/04/22/supreme-court-wont-hear-appeal-in-case-of-novelist-acquitted-on-child-porn-charge/.
None of that, by itself, changes ZBookStore's policies. Those are determined by Lazeez. But, legally, virtually nothing publishable on SoL violates C-46, with the potential exception of a work that has no explicit description of anything but actively advocates conduct illegal under Canadian law (I'm not completely sure whether that could be published on SoL).
None of that, by itself, changes ZBookStore's policies.
Yeah, the new ZBookStore policy is that you cannot have: "Explicit descriptions of characters under 18 in sexual situations."
None of that, by itself, changes ZBookStore's policies. Those are determined by Lazeez.
I'm fully aware of the Canadian laws and the court cases, and have been operating SOL in that light.
Unfortunately, some organizations (almost anywhere in the world) have appointed themselves arbiters of morality. The sad part is that they are able to exert enough pressure to affect businesses like ZBookStore. So while the contents would be legal under Canadian laws, corporations like Mastercard and PayPal have been known to pressure book sellers to remove certain contents lest their card processing gets cut off.
The same issue affected SOL in March when a German nobody managed to get us booted off our hosting company due to one very vague rule in our previous hosting company's terms of service. It was literally 'anything related to bestiality'. There are sites on the internet hosting videos of that stuff, and literally yesterday I got a video on Twitter/X showing a woman jerking off a horse (no, not professional semen extraction), and yet, we got booted off our hosting because we had some fiction about bestiality. These moral busybodies are ok with the most horrible torture and murders being described in details in books AND visually depicted in images and videos in the most gruesome details, and yet two teens losing their virginities to each other are a fucking no-no to them.
So in order to protect ZBookStore, and by extension the income of the authors selling their books on it, I have to make the rules compliant with more stringent morality, even though the content may be fully legal.
These moral busybodies are ok with the most horrible torture and murders being described in details in books AND visually depicted in images and videos in the most gruesome details, and yet two teens losing their virginities to each other are a fucking no-no to them.
"Children of the future Age,
Reading this indignant page:
Know that in a former time,
Love! sweet Love! was thought a crime."
-- William Blake, "A Little Girl Lost" (Songs of Experience, self-published, c. 1794)
"You can show a dozen guys murderin' each other on TV but you can't ever show two people making love. A naked blade is reckoned to be less obscene than a naked woman. Ain't it about time we started trying to get a handle on love, from any and all directions?"
-- Spider Robinson, "The Wonderful Conspiracy" (in Callahan's Crosstime Saloon. New York: Ace, 1977).
Just like the Abstinence Movement, which pissed pissed everyone off, guaranteeing their own failure, most moralists are 'preaching to the choir', with their own members serving as an echo chamber, overwhelming any serious objections, assuring themselves that everyone agrees with they nonsensicle arguments.
Yet those self-serving references won't help sell that crap, as it has a seriously limited number of potential clients (i.e. the most highly religious, who often won't read anything but pro-Christian screeds.
You'll notice that most religious publishers don't actually sell many books compared to the more mainstream publishers. Yet they're utterly unwilling to deal with any non-believer issues, not even willing to acknowledge their existence in reflection to their own views.
Which conversely, is why a certain religious cable channel keeps running "Blue Bloods" reruns, under the presumptions that's it's 'religious', despite the extreme onscreen violence, after any younger kids turn in for the night, because the family 'prays' during dinner, which is a very low bar to clear.
As without those episodes, they'd never make enough to keep the station afloat as they have SO few profitable shows.
Maybe it's just me, but that always makes me smile, especially when I catch the other shows they broadcast during their prime-time hours (mostly 'dog' shows that few would ever dare object to, as they're not even as good as the 75+ year-old Rin-Tin-Tin episodes).
Which conversely, is why a certain religious cable channel keeps running "Blue Bloods" reruns, under the presumptions that's it's 'religious', despite the extreme onscreen violence, after any younger kids turn in for the night, because the family 'prays' during dinner, which is a very low bar to clear.
Just out of curiosity, what "religious channel" streams Blue Bloods
UPtv was formerly the 'Gospel Music Channel' and switched to "positive, faith-based, and family-oriented programming".
But not under 16 years old.
You're right. I failed to remember the difference between SOL and ZBookstore.
To be clear, that's the age for explicit sexual content (which includes, for instance, detailed descriptions of nudity and so forth). Under-fourteen is fine as long as there's no explicit content. An under-fourteen person could flirt, likely even kiss, and even plan a date with someone else, but they can't wind up in an explicit sexual situation until they turn 14.
So you may be able to dance around it a bit, depending on how your story is structured. Or you may not.
You can have off-camera sex involving under 14 characters if you do not give detailed descriptions.
You can have off-camera sex involving under 14 characters if you do not give detailed descriptions.
Now I'm wondering how it could be considered off-camera if you do give detailed descriptions.
@DBActive
You can have off-camera sex involving under 14 characters if you do not give detailed descriptions.
@Dominions Son
Now I'm wondering how it could be considered off-camera if you do give detailed descriptions.
If you are giving detailed descriptions of sexual activity, that would likely not be considered off-camera but instead more of a cutaway scene.
Consider "Hearsay". "I heard that this person did this, and that and..."
Definitely violating the spirit. Possibly not violating the letter of the law.
Not something I plan to test or write.
Hence my saying 'explicit content' and 'explicit sexual situation'. If it's off-page, implied, skimmed, or the like, then yes, it's fine. That was the direction I was going when updating for the short-lived 18+ site rule. There was enough content to tell you what happened - in some detail - but no descriptions. A lot of 'tell, don't show.' It looked likely to meet the site standards.
So, I could make it clear that someone gave someone else a blowjob, for instance, but not describe said blowjob, nor how anyone's 'naughty bits' looked during the encounter.
I remember the days when most cities had multiple retail locations when you could freely purchase anything you desired. But Amazon effectively closed down the vast majority of retail outlets, as it's cheaper and you have a much broader reach on the internet than any physical location, where the expenses are much, much higher too.
I am truly sad to learn that where you live has no bookstores!
Despite my growing contempt for "Lesser Seattle" and its descent into Madness, Lawlessness, and Chaos; this region is Blessed with Numerous Bookstores!
I live in one of the major suburbs of Seattle, and within three blocks of where I live is a mall with two bookstores (a Barnes & Nobel, and a Half-Price Books), as well as a branch Library!
Due to increased costs of business, including crime, man of my favorite bookstores in Seattle have closed, or relocated. However, there are still many bookstores in the region, as well as several publishers. Authors do local book signings, and there are various gatherings for aspiring writers.
Recently the University of Washington Bookstore (a small chain with far more than merely textbooks) has been taken over by Amazon; I fear what will happen to the selection of books; in particular those by local, often "independent" authors.
The vibrant scene for Books and Writing is one of the few things keeping me in this region.
I have never purchased any eBooks, and (other than some very specific military / history sites) Stories0nline is exclusively where I read online (including its associated sites).
I hope that all here, or at least as many as possible, have access to physical bookstores, and/or Libraries near to where they live.
It's not that there are no bookstores, it's just that now they're smaller and much more specialized, giver the Rivers steady undercutting of the surrounding … banks? There are always the Grand bookstores, which offer a wide variety of books at cheaper prices, specifically required textbooks, so they're both cheaper to purchase and also more profitable selling them back. A win-win for everyone but the school professors scalping their students.
Everytime I return to one, I'll spend hours at a time exploring the shelves in a wide variety of categories, never knowing what I'm likely to find.
Amazon sells crap cheaply, yet they'll still not worth much, as they've always been a discount reseller, not a true bookstore (i.e. they only sell what they're paid to sell of are offered specific prices to sell by volume. Specialty Bookstores are much more selective of what titles they carry—quality content.
As far as libraries, our current libraries have banned so many books based on absurd standards (wide-scale cancellation of the very principal of 'free-speech').