Forum: Author Hangout

I Guess I Am Not Cynical Enough (Yet).

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

There are many things in current events to be Cynical about. I have become cynical over the years, starting in my teens in the 1980's. My cynical tendencies accelerated in the 1990's and beyond...

Recent events have convinced me I am Not (yet) Cynical enough.

Appallingly I have heard on radio and TV, and seen on the internet excerpts from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and various derivatives and/or associated "Yellow Journalism". I have noticed that only one entity was so foolish as to actually "source" material from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (so far as I can recall).

Certainly some of the actions of the nation of Israel, and various communities of the Jewish diaspora; as well as individuals who were/are ethnically Jewish, were or are worthy of criticism, even condemnation. Evil or good intentions aside; I can't see the utility of using pathetically ridiculous lander such as the "Blood Libal" or the PEZ yet I hear these shibboleths being presented as "fact" and too many people "lapping the garbage up" and then regurgitating it!

There is ample evidence to disprove the inane slanders of the Blood Libal" and The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Yet people in the USA are using such nonsense as justifications for discrimination, even violence on the university campuses and streets of the USA, and globally. People in the USA have rights to demonstrate in favor, or opposition, to almost anything. Using flimsy claims should result in ridicule for their cause. Violence spurred by such garbage is disturbing.

I guess I am just not cynical enough... Yet...

Replies: sunseeker Grey Wolf William Turney Morris NC-Retired

sunseeker 🚫
Updated:

@Paladin_HGWT

to me it seems like people have been blindly eating and drinking whatever they see on tv or hear from certain segments of society, groups of people etc for many years now. Too many are like lemmings or sheep with no minds of their own and follow whoever or whatever is "in vogue" at the moment...but that is just how I see things

God needs to slap humankind upside the head again!

SS

Grey Wolf 🚫

@Paladin_HGWT

Without getting into the specifics (which I agree with, mind you), I think this is a symptom. The root cause (or, at least, a root cause) is the way we've self-segregated into information 'bubbles' or 'silos'.

Someone who spends the vast majority of their time consuming media which promotes sources like the ones mentioned here will find it easy to believe them and hard to accept challenges to them. Challengers aren't merely 'different,' nor do they merely 'disagree.' They are 'other.' They are 'the enemy.'

We had a relatively brief period of time where there was a generally accepted reality, and a set of sources generally accepted as reasonably accurate and authoritative. We have almost entirely lost that now, at least as a norm.

Some people I know personally, and know to be highly intelligent, believe things which I think are entirely incorrect. I believe I'm correct - but, of course, they believe they're correct. I have a set of facts which justifies my belief. They have a set of facts which justifies their belief. I think many of their facts are not actually facts, and they think the same thing right back at me.

I try my best to remain an optimist about these things, but sometimes that's hard. My hope is that the next generation or two will figure this out and build some sort of a new consensus reality (and, hopefully, one that's mostly consistent with actual reality).

Replies: Paladin_HGWT blurred

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@Grey Wolf

I hope you are correct.

My OP was spurred by considering a situation a couple of weeks ago. I am using my GI Bill to go to a local State four-year college; that and my membership in an organization allows me to us the libraries on the campus of the University of Washington. A friend and I took the bus in the middle of the day, and then were walking to the main undergraduate library. We were menaced, technically we were physically attacked; we were certainly verbally assaulted! Worse the police refused to do anything to Citizens, Taxpayers, and Students of the government university/college system accessing a university library for research (albeit for my writing, not either of the courses I was taking). The police were protecting the Non-students illegally occupying a public university, and harassing students; furthermore, they committed what would be a Crime if we were any other religious denomination or skin color!

To top it off, some of these cretins were quoting from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, but didn't seem to be aware of the source material. Since then, I have heard more use of the PEZ, and the Blood Libel! I am not Jewish, nor is my friend, yet we were judged by our appearance. Denying access to two disabled students should not be tolerated. I don't agree with their opinions, however, they should have the Right to peaceably assemble to present their "grievances" opinions in a legal manner.

Replies: Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf 🚫

@Paladin_HGWT

Agreed on peaceable and legal. It's not as if we haven't seen this before (the 60s come to mind, very definitely), but it's troublesome. And I don't mean to equate today and the 60s - there are huge differences - but there are also some similarities.

I'm much more keeping hope rather than making a prediction. Things could just get worse, and I could make a case for that being likely, but I hope they don't.

If they do, I suspect we'll wind up finding Orwell or Huxley, or perhaps Gilliam (or some combination of them) were correct. I have a bad feeling that one of the more likely 'fixes' for these things is to declare someone the ultimate authority and suppress dissent, especially given modern technology.

I don't think Orwell was right about the 'boot stamping on a human face', though. It'll be more subtle, for the most part. Someone well out of line will get the boot. Most people will never get out of line in the first place, because they'll accept that Big Brother is always right and has their best interests in mind.

Sigh.

blurred 🚫

@Grey Wolf

1984?
Yeah right, man.
That's a typo.
Orwell is here now.

William Turney Morris 🚫

@Paladin_HGWT

I think the cause of a lot of these is ignorance - very few people know recent history, even what happened in the last 150 years. Ask people what they know about 'The Balfour Declaration' with regards to the Middle East, and you get blank looks. Or with regard to Iran - ask what the know about the 1947 overthrow of the Iranian Government by the US and the UK, and again - what?

NC-Retired 🚫

@Paladin_HGWT

I admire the words that the folks in this thread are using to avoid a thread lock and delete. Good job! And I hope I can contribute with the same circumspection.

What baffles me is willful ignorance. In my experience most folks abhor confronting any idea that makes them emotionally uncomfortable. There are many psychological terms that fit, choose your own.

But it does not matter what the idea is. If it does not fit their worldview, then it is wrong regardless of the lack of any supporting evidence. Or conversely, there is a multitude of supporting evidence that say their perception is wrong.

I go to a local pub on a near weekly basis for a couple pints of good draft beer and a pub food meal. Junk food I know, but tasty. They also have a dozen big screen tv's that ofter play some obscure 'sports' channel. Motocross to gokarts to rock crawling kinda stuff.

Sometimes I have a conversation with another regular or meet a friend to share some fellowship. Good times and all that.

But… on Friday evenings, as the hard alcohol flows more freely and the hours progress, the 'conversations' among the other patrons become louder. I cannot help but overhear the content of the conversations. Flat earth, denial of moon landings and politics are frequent subjects.

And… a couple years ago I tried to engage the purveyors of these falsehoods in a rational and logical conversation. The 'facts' I presented were rejected as fake. No thoughtful, 'hmmm, maybe' reaction. Just a flat nope.

And that's our shared reality today. A very large majority of our fellow homo sapiens are completely unaware that their minds are being propagandized for someone else's benefit, financial, political or religious.

Here in my region there are lots and lots of pickups that are 'jacked up' high with HUGE mud tread tires and loud exhausts. I can easily imagine that new, the basic truck was $70 to $100k. Add in the accessories and other 'stuff' to the tune of another $15 to $25k. Driving this monster somehow enhances and validates the ego of the owner.

From time to time, several of these folks congregate at the pub and engage in mutual ego stroking, loudly! After all it is their tribe and they are showing off to the outsiders as to how cool they are. When these guys appear I often finish my beer and leave as they are so obnoxious bragging about how 'big' and tough their rides are.

What they cannot comprehend is that some multinational corporation has used the vulnerability of the human mind to being manipulated, propagandized by 'advertising,' to appeal to their minimal intellect that going in debt for a $100k is somehow enhancing their masculinity.

This is but one example. There are thousands more. And sadly, there are the same sorts of advertising aimed at women and their insecurities.

I am at a total loss to understand why people do not or cannot wake up to the fact that they are being used for someone else's benefit. And when it is pointed out that they're being manipulated, they (often) simply do not care.

In a few years I'll go off to the long sleep without any further depth of understanding why individuals tolerate being manipulated.

Replies: DBActive

DBActive 🚫
Updated:

@NC-Retired

Here in my region there are lots and lots of pickups that are 'jacked up' high with HUGE mud tread tires and loud exhausts. I can easily imagine that new, the basic truck was $70 to $100k. Add in the accessories and other 'stuff' to the tune of another $15 to $25k. Driving this monster somehow enhances and validates the ego of the owner.

From time to time, several of these folks congregate at the pub and engage in mutual ego stroking, loudly! After all it is their tribe and they are showing off to the outsiders as to how cool they are. When these guys appear I often finish my beer and leave as they are so obnoxious bragging about how 'big' and tough their rides are.

What they cannot comprehend is that some multinational corporation has used the vulnerability of the human mind to being manipulated, propagandized by 'advertising,' to appeal to their minimal intellect that going in debt for a $100k is somehow enhancing their masculinity.

I always find it surprising that people validate their existence by demeaning the personal pleasures and choices of other people.
I was recently talking to a friend about a mutual friend who leases a new "supercar" ( Ferrari, Mcclaren, Lamborghini) every year. He loves them. My one friend was expounding that our friend was stupid to waste his money that way.
I mentioned that he has a couple of bicycles that cost 1000s each and goes on biking expeditions all over the world every spring and summer. Then in the winter he goes on at least four or five skiing trips to the west and Europe.
I think he got the point.

Replies: NC-Retired

NC-Retired 🚫

@DBActive

Oh, you poor child. You missed my point in its entirety.

I do not criticize these individuals for their validation choices. Whatever it takes to make you 'feel good' about your existence. What I strongly object to is when these individuals are completely oblivious to, or are deliberately, with foreknowledge, offensive to other people.

My town has a 1.5 mile long 'main street' that is a major state 2 lane highway. My estimate is 15,000 vehicles past on any weekday.

Often, 9pm to 2am the loud exhaust assholes have to 'show off' as they travel this section of road.

4-5 dozen houses that the loud exhaust noises intrudes upon.

If you have to validate your existence by disturbing other people, then your level of validation is extremely poor. Said a different way, your dick is tiny and you have to compensate.

Replies: DBActive samt26

DBActive 🚫

@NC-Retired

Stange. That's an entirely different tale than you first stated.

samt26 🚫

@NC-Retired

I know what you mean. It seems lots of us are so defensive, that a mild discussion of beliefs just a little different from theirs elicits extreme defensive reaction. Today one is apt to see a hard, absolute no. Memory is treacherous, but my memories of 40 years ago, it seems people were more open. I am scared for the future. The only saving grace in my mind is that all throughout history old mean have been scared for the future. I hope I'm wrong.

Replies: Paladin_HGWT

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@samt26

a mild discussion of beliefs just a little different from theirs elicits extreme defensive reaction... Memory is treacherous, but my memories of 40 years ago, it seems people were more open. I am scared for the future.

In my opinion it was "Bad Enough" when people were uncivil on the internet. After all I could go off-line, and take a pleasant stroll in the park, and enjoy the real world.

It seems to me that some people, mostly younger people, who I believe have grown up "online" and it seems without being taught Civility and they are acting in the real world in the same aggressive and uncivil manner that they do online.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Paladin_HGWT

It seems to me that some people, mostly younger people, who I believe have grown up "online" and it seems without being taught Civility and they are acting in the real world in the same aggressive and uncivil manner that they do online.

In today's paper, a music star had a rant at Generation Z attendees of his concerts spending most of his concerts on their mobile phones.

AJ

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I Guess I Am Not Cynical Enough (Yet).

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