Forum: Author Hangout

It's a mix of both. With the longer stories I have road markers that say 'where' but I have no 'how'. With the shorter stories, say less than 20-40K words it blends from one to the other, sometimes both. I have a great impenetrable nothing that I see no way past, either as a what or a how.

When I write I almost never have an outline. In fact I've only outlined a handful of stories rather than having a couple of points and themes I want to integrate into the story. My longest story, 100K which is maybe 1/4 of the way through what I now estimate it will reach, was originally going to be 50K and kind of went through a fractal explosion as I typed and right now I need to go back and 'in fill' areas that I flew by because I wasn't sure what was happening then and there. I have a list of themes to base each ~100K or so block on, but that is only a mean estimate. the first quarter will likely be well over that count while the other three much closer to it or even fall short.

Like I said,I have 'ideas' that I run pell-mell towards then suddenly I lose my footing and find I don't know up from down or plot from red herring. I also seem to have a lot of trouble, mentioning red herrings writing those in, in the initial pass. I mean I write what the story needs and wants at a core rather than allowing myself to add a bit of flavour here and there and then find I don't know where to add those bits in, word count or timing wise. I go back and read through and get carried away and forget to look for nooks and crannies to place a nugget or two in.

But back to my issues regarding a block. I know in my head where the major milestones and themes go but I find I loose for lack of a better term my train of thought. It derails like it hit a 200Kg rock placed on the tracks by my background anarchist who wants something but doesn't have the decency to tell or even hint what that is.

I remember writing (by hand) in school and ploughing through word or time budgets and ending up somewhere I never imagined or intended but typing allows for a lot more flexibility when writing and that may actually be a bad thing as I lose my link to the zone as I jump around even a little bit. the other 'problem' I had was sentences that were 200+ words long because I couldn't hold concentration on that particular structure while scratching away at the paper and ignoring the pain in my hand caused by writing as fast as possible trying to keep up with my erratic thought process. Typing just seems to have moved that process down the line a little. I can type much faster than scrawl though I still 'run out' of things to put down and can't get started again. My speed is maybe a third of what it was at my peak due to nerve damagea and surgeries hurting my motor control.

So I seem to hit 'the wall' at around 2,000 words in any one session if I start with a fresh mind. That seems to be where the wheels fall off as it where. doesn't seem to matter if it's a raw story, an email or an outline of some obtuse idea I had and had to put down before it ran screaming for the hill as if it's own life depended on it. That said I can and have written much more in a single sitting. I did smash out a 20k word report for University in under 6 hours that I completely wrote from memories up to 5 years old. So sometimes I can type a lot and hold it all together, but my ability to concentrate is not what it once was though medication (legal speed) does help.

And so after a diversion of HHGTTG proportions we come back to the crux. how do I get past that blasted block that springs up on me, normally just after something interesting happens or springs into my brain that I can't link to.

What do I do? F.

I've done that a little bit in the past, though normally when writing the intervening section is not forming fast enough and then I have a lot of trouble when I 'Go back'. But it is definitely a valid tactic.

for now I'm a definite pantser and I feel there are many reasons for this:

I don't 'plan' my whole story. Almost never have. I get a handful of milestones or even phrases and quite literately stumble between them. That 100k one I mentioned only had the core 'theme' and a single line of dialogue before I wrote anything. I then wound my way towards that singular point, keeping it in mind for purpose and impact. The problem this particular story has is it is overly focused on the primary plot with no side missions or intrigue, well there is a little but it is different to anything I would have 'planned'.

I seem to mostly adapt 'on the fly' to what my fingers are doing and what they feel. This may be because of how I'm 'wired' or how I learnt in school having to adapt rather than plan, react rather than reach.

I know these are not the only reasons I haven't made it a practice to outline a story before I start writing it and that there are actually very good reasons for doing so. It's just that I've not gone in that direction in the past and there are only two recent outlines I've written for story ideas. Those outlines are actually more character outlines though so not a true outline.

I have started to make 'bibles' for stories though. primarily character outlines and general support documents but at least it is something, though realistically not much more than a token effort towards true planning. This leopard has trouble changing it's spots.

So I am still at the crux or perhaps fulcrum of my problem. How to change things and work 'smarter' not 'harder' even if 'harder' is 'easier' at least in the beginning and for me more 'natural'.

I see two options.

1) a dedicated planning process. pull my story ideas apart as completely as possible or advisable and work out as many turns, kinks and roadblocks into some sort of matrix or rubric.

2) find a different method from my 'on the fly' writing style basically trying to keep up with the ideas I was having as I tapped away as fast as feasible hoping to keep those ideas present until I could get around to writing that particular section.

These are not exclusive or exhaustive and are just the two primary thoughts my sleep deprived mind has to hand right now. I agree that 'planning' rather than 'pantsing' would be such a paradigm shift that I am presently at a loss as to how to achieve this without a scorched earth approach. I really don't want to do 'that'.

right now I'm bashing away at three short stories so that I don't feel terrible for ignoring my current 'epic' that is floundering without a rudder or star to sail by. If and it's a very bloody big if I could find a developmental editor to help with nudging my efforts in appropriate directions, hopefully from some point of experience/authority relative to my 'virgin' status.

Ideas are one thing and limited to some extent, but writing ability, not quite talent but more the skill at turning those ideas either very general or reasonably focused. The other side to those ideas is an ability to fill out and pour those ideas into some sort of word count. I know word count is not the be all and end all, it is merely a metric or measure to guess at how things are 'going'.

If some of the writers here, or editors for that matter have some further insight to this problem I have described and worked around perhaps without wording 'well'.

the current posts are not quite what I'm looking for but do give me vague ideas. I look forward to further responses, F.

Thanks for that. I know 'how' outlining is supposed to work but I tend to over or under shoot the problem if that makes sense. I either can't find anything more than very basic ideas or get totally bogged down in them. It seems 'un-natural' not sure if that's the right word, maybe 'inorganic' is better.

I'll give two stories as examples, one short one long. with the short story I put down around 2k words fairly easily and then hit a wall. with this one a proper plan could have helped. I just got to the point where I move from introduction and setting and then realised I didn't have any 'road markers' aside from that. So I set it down for a few weeks till I had some points to aim for. Now the issue I'm having is getting close enough to those points that I can start writing them naturally or cohesively. This 'block' is about the links between scenes. I have less than half a dozen of them but because I didn't have a clear path to them in the beginning I'm not sure how I'll get to them now. In this example your planned approach would have been a good idea and if I'd practised before that process would likely have been easier. So with this example I agree with your premise.

However with the second example, an epic story, the one I've mentioned before. Stuck around the 100K mark I'm going back are re-reading and looking for places that need the kind of 'filler' that explain the story and breath life and complexity into the characters, I don't see where the plan would work as well as the earlier example. Yes this story was pretty much completely pansted but even if it wasn't the bits I'm having the most trouble with are scene linkages rather than plot points per-Se I'm not sure if a top down plan would work with this one in the same manner. The story was written more from the bottom up. a few ideas that grew and found their own way to the sunlight and now I need to tie them to the trellis so that the plant/story doesn't fall down. I'm finding it extremely hard to hold the story in my head. I have begun to write a skeleton summary of each chapter so I can 'see' places where I can trim, graft of stretch those parts of the story that either didn't get the attention they needed as I was working through that part and most likely missed as I was working to a much lower word count target then or just didn't have a better picture of the who/what/where/when features I was putting down. This may seem a similar problem to the first but it is kind of the opposite.

In the first I had the premise but no linkages or points of interest to tie the waft and weave together, in the second I have all of those things but I'm missing 'something else'. Not sure how to word this, but I need places where 'normal' things happen that explain the extra-ordinary points of the plot. Both counter point and contrast are needed. So whilst they are both 'blocks' they are caused by problems that are at opposite ends of the writing process spectrum.

Yes 'planning' in both these examples could/would help but I'm not sure they wouldn't just postpone the problems rather than actually avoid them. What do you say to that? is there a technique or work premise that could help in these similar yet polar opposite problems? With the second I don't see any hope/way to solve my malaise other than to retroactively develop the summary and for lack of a better word, tack on solutions to the issues I'm having there. Conversely with the first I can't do the preliminary 'work' because I've not practised it already. Not being able to do something because I've not trained my process to work with that method seems to be a chicken and egg problem where with the longer story it's been an issue of putting the cart before the horse.

The problems are created differently both because of the scope and scales of the stories and a different though similar 'internal' process. I know one 'issue' I have is very 'slow' starts. It takes 1-2K words before I find my footing and get things flowing. I'm not sure that this problem in particular would be avoided other than it may tighten up my introductions a bit. A different type of benefit that those 'solutions' may provide so that even if they don't actually 'fix' the block issue they do make possible another beneficial change to my 'effort'

Do any of you have, let us say 'mental exercises' rather than 'gymnastics' that are applicable here? I need to improve my writing 'fitness' somehow and I think this problem is a good place to start before I devolve into unbreakable habits that are more than 'bad' but actually counter productive?

one of the reasons I "bounce" is it keeps maximum options sort of fresh in the back of my mind. a 'system' which allows for 'idle' thinking time across many projects, which as a 'method' has in the past worked 'best'.

However I am finding it harder to have ideas come this way. not entirely sure why the change has occurred but I've noticed it is becoming the norm to go a month without any new ideas.

Also I can't just stare at a carrot and 'hope' if you get me.

I'll try and track down those other suggestions though.

Till next time, F.

'Bouncing' is how I work, but maybe not how I have to work I find that as soon as I stop for even a day or two on a set project, dozens of others pop up in my conciousness demanding their own time. I need to write them, the level of detail they get is a whole other conversation but I have extremely bad ADHD and even medicated, I hate taking tablets. My brain goes off into the wild grey yonder, with or without me in tow.

I've recently picked up Aroslav's (please tell me I spelt that right) Blog and noticed a writers block post in the middle somewhere. I think I'll go over that, even if I'm out of order with the others.

But I suspect that I might be like you that when there's an idea, the keys call and must be bashed until that Idea either 'makes sense' or has run it's course.

Until later, F.

Okay, this 'fuzzball' is completely scrambled so I'm making summary files of all current and semi-current stories. I need to sort the wheat from the chaff as it were.

I think if I do a bit of each of the three: summary/plan/character bios. I might have a snowballs of getting somewhere.'

The only other thing I can think of is to hunt through until I get a 'hit' and work from there till I run out again and that really isn't working at the mo'

I'm not planning on writing epics here. just maybe a thousand words guiding each of the stories I've most recently 'touched'. Speaking of 100K there is 'that' particular beast that got there just by banging away consistently for a few days, no plan, nothing. Just plugging along with each idea leading to another.

As it worked so well for that one I was hoping I didn't need to write guides for other stories but they have not flowed any where near as smoothly or effortlessly.

So I'm not going to write up a bible for every story. I'd be here till next year if I did that. Just say the last 10 that I actually opened and did more than scan down the pages of. 10 stories x 1K words each = 10K of bible. not an insurmountable task. I did actually write about 2K in reply to your last post but the machine crashed and crashed hard, no cache for the reply. I may actually think about what it was I was trying to write and get back to you on that one, soonish but for now I have a few tasks to heave too on. these files and a 'dead' machine that has important files on it.

it kinda works but I need someone with more skill than I to recover it and without tooting my own horn that will take some doing. 40+ years of PC's I've likely forgotten more than the 'best and brightest' here ever learnt.

Though the 'dead' machine is an OS I'm unfamiliar with, hence looking for help. In theory it works, I just need to piece together the right CLI arguments to resurect the bloody thing.

IGBTYS, F.

Maybe it was a story you NEEDED to tell.

It did 'feel' like it was running the 'show', not me or my fingers as it were. I do want to write a lot more with that one. but it is a really good example of being 'stuck'

Sent you a DM