Forum: Author Hangout

There is already an extensive 'flash back' piece, but that is because it predates the lives of the MC's and it was important to include that particular part of the story in that part of the text. It wouldn't make sense as an earlier input or perhaps as a discussion much later in the text to 'explain' an outcome that was already starting to form between the primary characters that are involved in the story. It causes the introduction of another character that plot wise can't come in earlier and allows for their proper integration much further down the way.

As for word count, they are only estimates and could be and likely are way off what the end result will be. I included them as indicators only. If one year is 300K and another is 50K then so be it. I was trying to make two main points that the story will cover several hundred pages of text and over four years of world time.

I have to mostly agree with you that I need to complete, at least in the majority of what needs to be put down should be well established before I begin posting. I write 'back and forth' a bit. getting ideas out as smoothly and quickly as I can. I find it very hard to keep my mind 'on task' at times and generally what I do there is jump somewhere else, either in the story or to another story.

I also think I am at least slightly daunted with the whole concept of writing that many words. Actually typing it out is not really an issue. In the past I've been required to write 20K+ words in a day mostly typing as the discussion steered the input as needed. I was 'working' with two others at the time and we had to put together a report on systems analysis of a system I knew fairly well. Well enough that with a simple interview I was able to fill in the gaps in my knowledge.

Yes it's been a few years since I wrote at that rate, but what I'm trying to say is that putting out the words is easy as far as pressing the infernal keys enough times. The issue is keeping a train of though on the rails long enough to get those words out in a stream that if not you, someone else can make sense of later on and turn into something worth reading.

I am beginning to experiment with a few 'technologies' including AI and voice to text. With the voice to text I originally used it over 20 years ago and dabbled every now and then since then. The AI 'resource' is more about creating a consistent 'image' of some part of the story or another. I do believe that AI has it's place and while 'creation' is not likely it. Steering ideas and generating examples on which to base parts of a story is likely within it's abilities and worth.

There are significant limitations to both of these systems and there will be for the foreseeable future. Until there are sufficiently large data sets and algorithms learning models they will continue to be crude at best. But what they are is much faster and talented than I am in finding parts of some of my characters and locations. I'd be interested in the opinion of others for this.

Now enough derailing my own post. Lets get back to the point of how to release work in such a manner that it is consistent and logical. I imagine the story being put together like a waterfall where each year is mostly written or shall we say prototyped before the next is started. I've said I can happily go back and forth when something is 'in progress' but I do not have the same confidence to do that as a release as ready writer here.

Over to you guys, F.

Thanks for that bit of advice.

Yes I'm very new to this 'idea' but I do want to make something that is of as high a quality as my limited time and talent will allow.

I did originally think that 'maybe' I could put out a year at a time. But that Idea followed closely on the heals of realising I'd blown out my 50K target and the plan for a single year of story.

I did think about releasing as 4 'stories' in a series, but didn't think that, that plan would work out if the word counts were too vastly divergent. So now the plan is write a single 4 year story. It's the release strategy that is the question. Between here and the mail system I've come to the conclusion the only way forward is to have the story pretty much finished aside from fine tuning after I get at least some feedback.

This is easier to maintain in my 'head' if it does not sooth the itch to post. However I have other stories that have various starts if posting is what I need to be doing at a point before I finish this story.

I have no allusion that the story will come out 'perfect'. I do want a best effort though. As Yoda said, "Do or do not there is no try" The stories will be what they are and I'd say come out in the order they need to.

I've found that at the moment for every four or five hours I spend trying to write story I spend one on a construction document, either reading or modifying them. I have at least worked out that the tactic of keeping it loosely in my head and pushing through might have worked for a 'mere' 50K. Now that it looks like there's a chance of going to go to 10x that. actual notes and plans are needed if I'm not to drift further into insanity than I already have.

Keep coming with the tips and ideas though. I'm more than happy for the help.

My advice was to complete the story before posting. If he chooses to 'post as he writes', then the alternatives are: 1) don't add content to future chapters that conflicts with the posted content, or 2) rewrite a posted chapter to support the chapter he is writing, which is a disastrous thing to do in my opinion.

It seems I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't, if I take the 'on-the-fly' approach. At least now I have, if ever so brief, an outline for years 2-4. I feel that the risk of shall we say 'contaminating the timeline' is too great. I know I am going to have to have a decent amount of material to 'pull forward' into those years. even if it is not stated explicitly in an earlier section, constantly resorting to 'flashbacks' reduces the value of the 'currency' and I'm not a good enough spinner to come up with other unique ways of bouncing around the timeline of a four year story.

I've already decided that years 2-4 will not be based on the same 'clock' as the first year. that was chosen because of the central topic and the related premise. That said I will then need some other way of marking the passage of time in those subsequent years, and possibly changing a facet of the end of the first to suit. and you see that I am already in trouble if I don't have this sorted before then.

there IS a discussion, a few in fact that mean I will have to change an established 'fact' for those years unless I find a way to make a new decision and have a reason for it that counters the original decision tree and story path. not impossible. i was already thinking of doing it, but i now need a date at which to make the change and a reasoned explanation for it. this needs to obviously be supported 'in story'. this was one of the first examples where i was worried about needing to ret-con something. there are others, but they are at present far too nebulous to worry about with what I've written so far.

one 'other problem' the story has is a very large 'cast'. there are at least 30 nominal characters, most have names and I'm already working on their bio's. even if they don't get significant if any word count beyond the mentions of their name. I need them set more or less in stone asap. I have names and brief descriptions for nearly everyone who has either a name or a role in the story. I'm worried I could miss name someone or make some other such pho-par and bring my miss-dead to the attention of those readers who do actually pay attention. I already have a problem and sort of a solution. It's not universal but it is consistent with my design of the world. I am working to a set calendar, just not a commonly known one. that is because it is a calendar I know and it suits the purpose of the story. if readers are too focused on their own knowledge and ignore the hints I give. I can't help them at the expense of everyone else. Schools are schools everywhere, though they all have their own uniqueness and vulgarities

So I think I have decided to post, post completion. even working with a waterfall from year to year may not work if I have to reach too far into the past, too often. I have enough problems with my story without further jarring everyone's sense of the passage of time with these sorts of problems.

That does still mean I may need to ret-con, it just won't need to be done after a chapter goes out. I can di it in the 'safety' of my editing system, supported by all the construction docs I'm seeming to collect that may outstrip the story they guard from my ineptitude.

Best of luck everyone else. I may reserve the right to ask how to pull my foot out of my digital arse in the future, but for now it's going to have to be a complete story before any posting occurs and one or two of those other false starts may have to come forward if I'm not to overly try the patience of my editor(s).

1) the plan after it became clear that the story was no longer going to be multiple years was to release one year as i finished a suitable draft of the following year. This would meet your rule of seven with a year being 20+ chapters. But I lost confidence in this idea when I realised how much back fill I'm having to do before I even move onto the next year. I am starting to write down ideas for year two as I have them, but some of these ideas will ultimately require a 'base' in year one leading to yet more back fill.

2) I have what I call my cheat sheet which is a timeline summary of the written chapters and ideas for those upcoming. It's presently less than a thousand word because I've only done minimal work on it and to get further I need to re-read the 100K words I have written whilst doing all the other 'jobs' of writing and I just haven't had the spare day that that would take to get ahead of the ball.

3) This is planned as part of the reply to point 2 along with internal 'comments' inline in the draft document. seasons, months and terms are noted against a pair of calendars. I worked out how long everything would take and set the divisions to make this work. there are a small number of scenes that run contra to this cadence, but these too are noted against the official calendar and the important dates in it.

4) I have a 'bio page' that has details of all the current and planned characters, this file is already over 7K words, nearly 40 pages and there are still a good number of existing characters as well as a small number of planned to fill out. there are also high quality portraits and, depending on the character, back story explaining their motivations. This 'page' is growing exceptionally quickly at the moment growing 10x in the last editing period. Some of the characters only have one or two short paragraphs while some may go to three pages.

So yes there are 'paper tools' to help. these let you know what 'has' happened but not help add details post facto when a future scene requires a prior insertion of text.

That was the point of the question. How to write such that I don't have do do more back filling if I was to release a year at a time. And that is the reason I have decided not to release 'in-progress' chapters and will wait till I am very close to finished if not finished.