Forum: Author Hangout

to vs. too

helmut_meukel 🚫

First, English isn't my first language.

However I thought I know the difference and when to use 'to' and when 'too'.

In a book I currently read, the authors consistently use 'too' where I thought it has to be 'to'.
Here is an example:

Maybe it was time to let the guards do their job. Only step in when I have too. When I'm actually needed.

Quinn, Montgomery. The Beast: Trolling In Paradise: Book 1 (English Edition) (S.160). Kindle-Version.

Obviously it's 'to' when the sentence is a bit longer:
"Only step in when I have to do it."
Or: "Only step in when I have to step in."

Do I miss something here or do the authors misuse 'too'?

HM.

Replies: Dominions Son Switch Blayde REP richardshagrin ystokes akarge LOAnnie Pixy

Dominions Son 🚫

@helmut_meukel

Do I miss something here or do the authors misuse 'too'?

As far as I know you didn't miss anything.

That said, it maybe more of a mistype than misuse. It's the sort of error spell checkers can't catch and the LibreOffice grammar checker doesn't flag it either.

Replies: helmut_meukel

helmut_meukel 🚫

@Dominions Son

it maybe more of a mistype than misuse.

The cited usage is the fifth or fourth I stumbled over.
It's always in the same position: last word in a short sentence.
Maybe it's really a mistype and all the correctly typed occurrences didn't register with me, leading me to assume misuse.

HM.

Replies: Switch Blayde Dominions Son

Switch Blayde 🚫

@helmut_meukel

The cited usage is the fifth or fourth I stumbled over.

It's a self-published book. Nowadays, even professional editors make mistakes. You can expect even less with self-published. This must be a quirky error he makes.

Replies: helmut_meukel

helmut_meukel 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

This must be a quirky error he makes.

He got me with another just a few minutes ago:

so I took that as my queue to remove my length from her throat.

I had to look-up 'queue' to find out what he really wanted to write: Oxford Dictionary had there a link to 'cue²'.

The problem I have with those typos or use of the wrong homonym is my insecurity in my knowledge of English. I look them up, because I fear if I ignore them often enough I may myself start to use them in the wrong way (the truth of the printed word: having read it often enough it must be right).

A native English speaker might think it's nitpicking, but for me those nits are quite large.

This too influences my voting, too many errors will cause a one or even two points lower vote.

HM.
Edited typo: to instead of too (second position in my last sentence).

Replies: Paladin_HGWT awnlee jawking

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@helmut_meukel

A native English speaker might think it's nitpicking, but for me those nits are quite large.

This too influences my voting, too many errors will cause a one or even two points lower vote.

Huzzah! I congratulate you on striving to make your writing better, especially if it is not your primary language. I too have to make significant efforts to catch similar errors.

I can be Missunderstood in more than 20 languages.

Cheers.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@helmut_meukel

I had to look-up 'queue' to find out what he really wanted to write: Oxford Dictionary had there a link to 'cue²'.

'Cue' would be correct.

I found 'cue' spelt as 'que' in a SOL story I read a couple of days ago ;-)

AJ

Dominions Son 🚫

@helmut_meukel

It's always in the same position: last word in a short sentence.

I have a couple like this I make all the time. And when I want/meant an, now when I want/mean no. I'm making these typing errors constantly and consistently. If I understood why, maybe I could fix my typing.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@helmut_meukel

Only step in when I have too.

That's a typo. It should be "to".

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

That's a typo. It should be "to".

Seconded!

AJ

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

That's a typo. It should be "to".

Seconded!

No, that would be "two." LOL

REP 🚫
Updated:

@helmut_meukel

Sounds to me like it is misuse since it is used consistently.

'Too' is used to indicate more than expected amount of the specified item (e.g. too high, too low, too hot, too cold, etc.)

'Too' can also be used to mean 'also', and 'also' is often at the end of a sentence.

If the author is writing 'to' in appropriate places, I doubt his writing 'too' is a typo in most places.

richardshagrin 🚫

@helmut_meukel

another 2 is two. Sometimes mistyped tow. And then there is the ballerina costume, the tutu. If it isn't complete perhaps it is just a tu?

Replies: madnige

madnige 🚫

@richardshagrin

C'mon Richard, you're slipping - I'd have expected you to give an example or two to too many, with all three spellings.

Replies: awnlee jawking solitude

awnlee jawking 🚫

@madnige

Et tu Brute?

AJ

Replies: akarge

akarge 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I'm assuming that you know the generally accepted translation of "Et tu, Brute" is "You too, Brutus."

Replies: Keet

Keet 🚫

@akarge

The literal translation is "And you, Brutus" but the Shakespearian meaning is indeed "You too, Brutus?".

solitude 🚫

@madnige

C'mon Richard, you're slipping - I'd have expected you to give an example or two to too many, with all three spellings.

You actually want him to enter his too-torial mode?

ystokes 🚫

@helmut_meukel

I don't know if it is something that is built into windows or something else but when I am writing it highlights a word if I am using the wrong one or if it needs a punctuation mark.

akarge 🚫
Updated:

@helmut_meukel

The easy way to remember to use TOO correctly, is to notice that too has more 'o's than to. Too means more, extra or just too many.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@akarge

The easy way to remember to use TOO correctly, is to notice that too has more 'o's than to. Too means more, extra or just too many.

Too doesn't always mean more. Sometimes too means also. "I love you too."

Replies: akarge

akarge 🚫

@Dominions Son

Your example is I love you too. But that is just what I was saying. You love me and I love you as well. I meant more in the additional meaning

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@akarge

But that is just what I was saying.

No it's not. This is exactly what you said:

Too means more, extra or just too many.

That leaves out as well/also

LOAnnie 🚫

@helmut_meukel

Always learned too can be used to replace also or very. If replacing it with those words doesn't make sense, it's the wrong choice.

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@LOAnnie

too can be used to replace also or very. If replacing it with those words doesn't make sense, it's the wrong choice.

Not really. "I bought too many" is correct, but the "too" can't be replaced with "also" or "very."

Replies: storiesonline_23 awnlee jawking

storiesonline_23 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Aww come on, Switch Blade, don't be a piker:

Our hands were full, as I too bought two too many to fit in my backpack.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

"I bought too many" is correct, but the "too" can't be replaced with "also" or "very."

"I bought very many" is valid English - 1000+ SOL stories contain it according to search - but "very" doesn't mean the same as "too" in that context.

AJ

Replies: Switch Blayde Dicrostonyx awnlee jawking

Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

is valid English - 1000+ SOL stories contain it

I sure hope you don't use SOL stories to validate correct English.

The only "very many" that I can think of is:

How many?
Very many?

Dicrostonyx 🚫

@awnlee jawking

"Valid English" and "correct English" are not necessarily the same thing. Terry Pratchett used* to say that part of the reason English is so widely spoken is that it is understadable when spoken badly.

I'd suggest that in most contexts "very many" falls into that category: incorrect but understandable.

[* He may still say it, but as he passed in 2015 I have no way to confirm.]

awnlee jawking 🚫
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

Very is an adverb.

Many is a determiner, pronoun or adjective.

Adverbs like very can be used to modify determiners and adjectives.

There is nothing incorrect about using very many.

Note that many is a determiner for countable objects, much is a determiner for uncountable objects. So very much is also correct English.

AJ

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

So "very much" is also correct English.

and "very much" and "too much" don't mean the same thing

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Dialogue in a story with MUCH sex:
"How much do you love me?" Sue asked.
"Very much," Joe said.

Dialogue in a story with NO sex:
"How much do you love me?" Sue asked.
"Too much," Joe said.

Pixy 🚫

@helmut_meukel

On a similar vein, my poor unfortunate part-time editor seems to loathe my usage of 'towards'.

Replies: awnlee jawking Switch Blayde

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Pixy

What do they want to replace it with - twowards or toowards? ;-)

AJ

Replies: Pixy

Pixy 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Pretty much anything other than 'towards' ...

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Pixy

my poor unfortunate part-time editor seems to loathe my usage of 'towards'.

I assume the editor wants "toward" without the "s". Without the "s" is American and with the "s" is British. But both are correct on both continents.

I see "toward" and "to" used incorrectly all the time on SOL. Maybe that's what the editor is objecting to. "Toward" means you are moving toward the place or object and haven't gotten there yet. "To" means you went to it and arrived.

I walked to the store (you are now at the store).
I walked toward the store (you're walking in the direction of the store).

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

"Toward" means you are moving toward the place or object and haven't gotten there yet. "To" means you went to it and arrived.

A quick perusal of Google suggests that 'toward' includes the concept of direction, so if you're walking toward the library, you might not actually be going there but that's the direction you're taking. However 'to' includes the concept of intended destination but not necessarily the direction you're taking. If you're walking to school, you might be taking the scenic route and you might never arrive for some reason, but school was your intended destination.

AJ

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

If you're walking to school

Ah, but it's the "ing" that does that. If you notice my examples, they were "walked."

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Ah, but it's the "ing" that does that

Your original definition was:

"To" means you went to it and arrived.

It's not general enough.

AJ

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

"To" means you went to it and arrived.

Actually, I might be wrong.

"He walked to the store but turned around after only one block when it started to rain."

In the above sentence, he never arrived and "to" is used.

Replies: akarge awnlee jawking

akarge 🚫

@Switch Blayde

True, but that doesn't mean that it is used CORRECTLY.

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@akarge

True, but that doesn't mean that it is used CORRECTLY.

I wonder if "walked to" without arriving is incorrect. I wonder if it has to be "was walking to" if he didn't arrive. Like "He was walking to the store when he turned around because it started to rain."

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

"He walked to the store but turned around after only one block when it started to rain."

In the above sentence, he never arrived and "to" is used.

Perhaps that's a situation where 'toward(s)' works better, but it foreshadows the failure to make it since only the author knows what comes next.

AJ

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Perhaps that's a situation where 'toward(s)' works better,

Not really. It would be a different meaning. He was walking to the store. His destination was the store. "Toward" means a direction not a destination.

I honestly don't know if you can write "walked to" and not be there.

Replies: storiesonline_23 Switch Blayde

storiesonline_23 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Not really. It would be a different meaning.

Hmm, I suppose. But I could accept either.

I honestly don't know if you can write "walked to" and not be there.

Better, I think: "started to" or "started walking to".

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I honestly don't know if you can write "walked to" and not be there.

I just found the following:

Walk to confirms that you arrive at your destination, or plan to do so.

"or plan to do so" hmm

Replies: DBActive

DBActive 🚫

@Switch Blayde

"He headed to the store but turned around."

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@DBActive

"He headed to the store but turned around."

"Headed" and "walked" don't mean the same thing. Headed implies the intention to go. I found the following:

To be 'headed/heading' means that you are on your way, you are prepared to go, you have formed the intention to specifically travel to that location, in the immediate future, right now, as soon as you leave.

Both are also somewhat casual, and work fine as dialog, or in an informal letter, but should be changed for a formal written account - instead of 'I was heading to…' you should probably say instead 'I was traveling toward…' or 'I had intended to go to…'.

For a slight difference - I would say 'I'm headed to the store' if someone stopped me on my way out the door and said 'where are you going?' But I would probably say 'I am heading to the store' if I simply paused to TELL them that, on my way out, before being asked.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

For a slight difference - I would say 'I'm headed to the store' if someone stopped me on my way out the door and said 'where are you going?' But I would probably say 'I am heading to the store' if I simply paused to TELL them that, on my way out, before being asked.

Other experts may vary ;-)

'I am headed' emphasises the direction and intention but does not necessarily mean the journey is under way.
'I am heading' emphasises the journey and implies the journey is under way.

In both the examples given by your expert, the journey is already under way so 'I am heading' is the better choice.

AJ

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

In both the examples given by your expert, the journey is already under way so 'I am heading' is the better choice.

Actually, there were other parts that said that. "Heading" implied he was on his way toward the destination. "Headed" implied that he intended to go there.

"Heading" being the grammatically correct of the two, but "headed" is used enough to be okay in less than formal writing.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

We Brits are lucky - we can get away with using 'heading' every time.

That doesn't mean there's a paucity of 'headed'. We Brits play football with a ball-shaped ball and headed goals are legal and common. ;-)

AJ

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Forum: Author Hangout

to vs. too

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