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What does wattage determine in AM or FM radio?

PotomacBob ๐Ÿšซ

I've heard that in the U.S., there's a limit of 50,000 watts on any AM radio station. I also remember, from decades ago, that there was a radio station in Del Rio, Texas, that had 75,000 watts, and could do that because its transmitter was in Mexico. I don't remember the call letters of that station, but I do remember that it started with a X.
So what does that mean in practical terms. I received the Del Rio station at night in the Southern Appalachian mountains. Does having more wattage mean the radio signal travels farther.
FCC restrictions aside, what would happen if an AM station transmitting from the top of the Blue Ridge Mountains with 250,000 watts? Could they hear that in Mexico? Canada? U.S. West Coast?
What if it were an FM station. Are there similar limits on FM signals and if so, would a 250,000 watt transmitter travel farther (or shorter) than an AM signal?

Freyrs_stories ๐Ÿšซ

@PotomacBob

Take this with a pinch of salt as it's relying on my ability to recall aspects of physics I've only had passing need to retrieve from my memory banks.

Here are the bullet points in no particular order:

for a given wattage with no other considerations AM will be receivable at a longest distance from the transmitter. AM is at a lower frequency than FM an because of this and less signal degradation because of the way the signal is encoded and it does not lose fidelity as soon as FM.

FM is more sensitive to interference but 'bounces' more readily off upper layers of the atmosphere allowing reception in 'patches' of clear and poor signals.

FM also used to partially overlap with uhf/vhf TV signals so you could get signal crossover.

The last major factor is the antenna. here civilians are capped at 5w but with the right choice of antenna that signal can be received over 100Mi away and that is allowing for a signal at a much higher frequency and should have worse attenuation.

Things I'm maybe 50% sure of:
FM is more efficient at converting AC to RF.
FM works better in areas of physical interference.
FM was originally the poor cousin with few stations and less commercially viable as a result.

Replies:   Grant
Grant ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Freyrs_stories

AM is at a lower frequency than FM an because of this and less signal degradation because of the way the signal is encoded and it does not lose fidelity as soon as FM.

It's not a case of being AM or FM- it's just a matter of the frequency band being used- the lower the frequency, the greater the range for a given transmission power.

FM is more sensitive to interference but 'bounces' more readily off upper layers of the atmosphere allowing reception in 'patches' of clear and poor signals.

That should be AM is more sensitive to interference (eg lightning, poorly filtered points/distributor car ignitions, brush commutator electric motors (hair dryer/electric drill etc) result in a racket on an AM radio, but no effect on FM). And AM bounces off of the Ionosphere more readily (but that is as mentioned previously- because of the transmission frequencies used. Although there are periods where some higher frequencies (both AM & FM) can and do skip as well).

The last major factor is the antenna. here civilians are capped at 5w

The transmission power is down to the transmitter being used. The size of the antenna is dependent on its gain & the transmission/reception frequency.

FM is more efficient at converting AC to RF.

I'm not too sure what that means.
The efficiency of transmission (electrical power used in order to produce the output RF signal) is down to the transmitter, antenna & cabling being used. Whether it's AM/FM/digital doesn't enter in to it.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@PotomacBob

The 50KW limit was all about politics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheeler_resolution

Resolved, That it is the sense of the Senate of the United States of America that the operation of radio broadcast stations in the standard broadcast band (550 to 1600 kilocycles) with power in excess of 50 kilowatts is definitely against the public interest, in that such operation would tend to concentrate political, social, and economic power and influence in the hands of a very small group, and is against the public interest for the further reason that the operation of broadcast stations with power in excess of 50 kilowatts has been demonstrated to have adverse and injurious economic effects on other stations operating with less power, in depriving such stations of revenue and in limiting the ability of such stations to adequately or efficiently serve the social, religious, educational, civic, and other like organizations and institutions in the communities in which such stations are located and which must and do depend on such stations for the carrying on of community welfare work generally.

zebra69347 ๐Ÿšซ

@PotomacBob

Stations on the AM band have a limited number of frequencies they can use. A high power transmitter can be heard over a greater distance, so they are limited and the same frequency can be used outside the distance covered.
On the FM band again power can cover a greater distance, though an obstruction like hills can create shadows to coverage. Most FM stations tend to serve smaller community areas.

irvmull ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@PotomacBob

Transmitter power output (wattage), along with the transmitting antenna height and location, determine how far radio signals travel.

(Subject to atmospheric conditions -- for the inevitable pickers of nits)

The reason for a limit to power is so one powerful station doesn't prevent local broadcasters from using that same frequency. A powerful enough transmitter located in the middle of the USA could make dozens of local stations unusable due to interference, even if you couldn't actually get good reception from that powerful station. And local broadcasts were where the money was to be made, especially when radio first started out. Local news was a lot more important to local listeners than what might be happening in Council Bluffs.

AM radio has some drawbacks, like static, fading, and electrical noise from local sources like electric motors, etc. And broadcasting "high-fidelity" music was not possible.

That's why FM. Shorter range due the higher-frequency broadcast band, but nearly immune to interference and much better fidelity.

For example, I can receive WLS AM from Chicago (at night) which uses 50,000 watts. I cannot receive WBCT FM in Grand Rapids - about the same distance - even though they transmit 320,000 watts.

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@irvmull

so one powerful station doesn't prevent local broadcasters from using that same frequency

If you mean commercial broadcasters by "local broadcasters", they should not be on the same frequency. The FCA divided the AM and FM broadcast frequency ranges into segments that have specified bandwidths. Commercial broadcasters are assigned different frequency bands for their use.

The reason for limiting a commercial broadcaster's power is, as a signal's power increases the signal begins to bleed over into the two adjacent frequency bands. When a broadcaster's signal bleeds over into an adjacent band, it can interfere with the transmission of the broadcasters assigned to the adjacent broadcast bands.

Back in the 80's/90's, a customer contracted with my company to design and build a system that allowed the customer to monitor the frequency range of satellite transponders and detect problems related to transmissions interfering with broadcasters using the transponder. I taught an operator's class to the customer's people on how to use the system to detect interfering signals. One of the system's capabilities was to transmit a test signal at a specified frequency within the transponder's frequency band. One of my students did not like one of the local radio stations and asked me if it was possible for her to use the system to transmit a signal on the same frequency as that used by the radio station. It was, but my reply was using the system in that manner violated FCC regulations. I suspect that the radio station had periodic problems with interference.

Replies:   irvmull
irvmull ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@REP

Several commercial broadcasters can share the same frequency.

Here's a list of them:

https://www.noaa.gov/atmosphere/learning-lesson-am-in-pm-clear-channel-stations

Example:

680 kHz

KNBR San Francisco, CA

WPTF Raleigh, NC

WRKO Boston, MA

The requirement is that they are far enough apart to not interfere with each other, and no local (nearby) station is allowed to use the same frequency. That's why they're called "clear channel".

Local radio stations which have not been classified as "clear channel" can be closer together. Close enough that at nighttime, when signals travel further, two stations transmitting on the same frequency can interfere.

For example: 750 AM is WSB in Atlanta, a clear channel, but 750 AM is also WAUG AM in Raleigh-Durham, NC. which is not all that far from Atlanta, if someone is broadcasting 50,000 watts.

WAUG has to go off the air at sunset to avoid interference with WSB.

Replies:   REP
REP ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@irvmull

The reason for a limit to power is so one powerful station doesn't prevent local broadcasters from using that same frequency.

Yes, the same frequency is assigned to different stations in distant parts of the country, and skip transmissions can result in them interfering with each other.

However, you were talking about local stations and I responded to that reason for limiting power.

oyster50 ๐Ÿšซ

@PotomacBob

Apples and oranges, folks!

The AM broadcast band is 530 to 1700 kilohertz. This is the medium frequency band. Propagation is essentially by ground wave, i.e., signals hug the ground. Increasing power is one way to increase coverage range. Another is to use a directional antenna. Stations range in power from 50 watts for local areas such as school campuses or small towns the 50,000 watts. The latter are often 'clear channel', with no other stations to interfere at night, and at night can be heard long distances. Stations such as WLS in Chicago, WBAP in Dallas, and WWL in New Orleans used this fact to advantage. I tuned these stations in at night to provide reliable entertainment on long drives in the days before other forms of electronic entertainment.

Mexico did have a 250,000 watt station, XEW, in Mexico City.

On AM, two stations on the same frequency (or close) will interfere by mixing their signals. This usually means unintelligible noise.

FM broadcast operates from 88-108 MEGAhertz, in the VHF (very high frequency) band. Propagation here is essentially line of sight. Increasing power increases the RF footprint and there are occasionally effects such as shadows and reflections off terrain and buildings, but essentially the line-of-sight characteristic means a higher antenna, either a tower or atop a convenient building or mountain, gets more coverage.

Power levels on FM broadcast bands can go to 100,000 watts, which will usually give coverage over a 150-mile radius. The daytime vs. nighttime distances for the FM bands are essentially identical. Low power stations in the ten watt range are often licensed by schools for their own programming. Equipment is inexpensive.

FM mode brings with it a 'capture effect', wherein two signals on or near the same frequency, the stronger will 'capture' the frequency. The weaker will be unheard.

Frequency assignments on both bands are channelized, frequencies assigned by government licensing.

The above is a simplification.

oyster
(Licensed amateur radio operator)

William Turney Morris ๐Ÿšซ

@PotomacBob

The other factor not already mentioned is that an FM transmitter is operating in the VHF (Very High Frequency band), and the wavelength of the signal is shorter - at 54MHz, the wavelength is 6 metres, at 144 MHz, it's 2 metres. So, it's much easier to build directional antennas - most MW transmitters will spew the signal out in all directions equally, but for VHF, you can build a directional antenna that will focus the transmission into a narrow beam, and for a given transmitter power, you concentrate that power into the direction you want.

WTM (previous licensed amateur radio operator - VK1KEN)

LupusDei ๐Ÿšซ

@PotomacBob

I do not remember the frequencies used (and lazy to look it up), but suspect it was AM band that was used.

Several radio stations transmitted from abroad into the Soviet Union, including in Latvian, such as "Amerikas Bals" (Voice of America) and "Brฤซvฤ Eiropa" (Free Europe). Those were in turn intentionally suppressed by Soviet authorities by transmitting their own signal (a very screamy beep) in the same channel.

However, using a sensitive enough receiver and skilled operator it was possible to listen to those suppressed stations, but you had to constantly adjust. The suppression signal was VERY laud, but it was narrow, on the edges of it the useful, much quieter signal could be heard. Suppression knew it, and their signal wiggled over the band bank and forth, but not entirely randomly. So one could catch the edge and surf it rythm, then sharply cross and continue on the other side, and so on. Resulting in a speaker voice that faded and became louder in waves, intersected by a loud beep occasionally.

Why the Soviet authorities were unable to cover the whole width of the "enemy" signal I don't know. They used warships to transmit the suppression signal at first, but eventually purpose built antennas (4 in territory of Latvia), and yet the effort was unsuccessful.

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