Forum: Author Hangout

I don't do anything in that regard, however, the few print novels I have seen that include a "cast list" do it as an appendix at the end, rather that up front before the first chapter.

DS, that's what I do in my print and ebooks, however, for SOL it's easier if readers can reference it anytime they forget who a character in a story is. Thus you post it as the first chapter, simply so it's always there whenever you need it.

However, because it's always the first chapter, I've always kept it limited to the character already mentioned in the story. Now that I've broken that guideline, I'm being reminded why I started following it in the first place (i.e. the "cast list" essentially becomes a series of "spoilers" for what happens later in the story).

It's more of a logistical issue, rather than a 'traditional publishing' style guideline.

I've got a contrarian view. First, does the story need dozens of characters? Dozens of characters who are important enough for the reader to recall who they are? Let's assume the answer is yes. Why can't you write the story in a fashion that makes the character stick in the reader's mind?

I started the process (of adding cast lists) back when I was writing "The Catalyst" series, which has over 100 characters over the course of six books. Each was broken down by the specific books (i.e. I only list whoever is in each book) and I maintain lists of when each character is first introduced, so I know when to add them to the existing character list.

My latest book is an exception. I didn't include the character list in the published books, but did for SOL, mainly because I'm only posting a single chapter a week and wasn't sure readers would remember the characters for that long. Otherwise I wouldn't have bothered. However, there are several sections involving congress and various groups, so names get thrown around a bit.

I never intended for readers to actually read the character lists. Instead, they're there in case you can't remember characters from one chapter to the next, so they're a quick way to check who someone was. But as I observed above, that doesn't seem to be what's happening. I'm not sure how widespread the reading of cast lists is (as opposed to looking them up when confused), but I'd be curious what the stats suggested.

But my original question was: IF a cast list is used, is it better to update it each time a new character is added, or is it better to dump all the characters and let the finished list stand on its own?

For a series, I would create a "Book 0, Compendium" listing inside the series list, and put all appendix information there. That way you could keep any cast lists, chronologies, glossaries and pronunciation guides, author's notes, and the like bundled with the stories but separate from any given story. Since some people really don't like this sort extra, they could easily identify and skip it without worrying about missing the story itself.

Just a couple issues with that approach: 1) It's difficult publishing a separate book (even for free) that's required to make sense of later books. 2) Even on SOL, if a ready can't readily access the cast list when they're confused, they'll never use it. Moving the one list to a separate location means it'll take more time to find the resource than it'll take searching for the names. 3) Again, you run into the entire plot-spoiler issue where someone might discover what happens in the final book while looking up someone in the first book.

Finally, promising to but not posting the character list won't help readers if a story takes months to post (at my traditional twice-a-week posting of 20+ chapters). Instead, you'd force them to reread the entire story, searching character names, until they could identify when the character was first/last introduced.

(Now you see why so many authors avoid including these things: they're more trouble than they're worth in most cases!)

Cast lists

In general, I don't have a cast list. However, when the cast gets very large, such as in Finding Home then a cast list helps the readers to keep the 72 main people sorted out as to who is who in the 270,000 words of story in 37 chapters and 1,406 kb - that's a lot of text, and there are even minor characters not listed. The list can go at the front or the back, but the aim is to help people keep track of who is who. I'll often put the list at the back of the book, but posted first at SoL so it's available with the first chapter.

Although I've used character lists often, I generally follow the following guidelines:
- Don't list any character who isn't referenced in multiple chapters,
- don't list characters who appear and then disappear (i.e. don't show up in subsequent books)
- Don't list a character list is there are fewer than 20 characters (unless the characters are likely to be confused for some particular reason).

I'm not sure that character lists presuppose laziness, but they can be a symptom of an author's lack of proficiency. I think Penguintopia handled the large cast of the 'A Well-Lived Life' series well, correctly expecting readers to recognise and remember the core characters and providing little cues when lesser characters reappeared.

However, as has been mentioned, the posting of stories in instalments makes remembering characters a challenge for readers, so character lists may be appropriate even though you'd expect then to be removed from a completed e-book version.

AJ

I'm not sure that character lists presuppose laziness, but they can be a symptom of an author's lack of proficiency. I think Penguintopia handled the large cast of the 'A Well-Lived Life' series well, correctly expecting readers to recognise and remember the core characters and providing little cues when lesser characters reappeared.

I've never provided a list of character details, as that would make the character list overly long. Instead, I provide biographical details (Tony's mother, a 28-year-old baker in Toledo, part of the gang who attack Fredrick in Cincinnati), so anyone referencing the character will be able to quickly place them ("Oh, yeah, that's who that is").

My entire point was the character list serves 2 functions. First it gives a reference for readers on major characters. Second and probably most important, it helps a writer keep track of the characters used in the story.

For that, I maintain my own references (char list by chapter and a master character list), but then, no one expects authors to publish their story notes when a story is posted, so why should they expect those unnecessary details.

A 'who was that' reference is the point of a character list. A 'what did that guy do', or 'what does she look like' isn't really a very compelling argument for posting a cast list.

Given the arguments here, I'm also considering pulling existing cast list once the story finishes posting. Though, for my 6 book "Catalyst" series, I kept revisiting favorite older characters, giving updates on what they were up to. In those cases, I'd refer to characters not seen for several books, so a reference would be required in any case.

The major point is that people use the list for different things. Its that difference which makes life and stories fun. If everyone and everything was the same it would lead to a mighty boring existence. Its why I love different cultures and places and backgrounds.

Which was why I asked how others used them. I don't object to including character traits, I'd just never considered it before.

The ones I prefer are those which give basic information. Such as relationships: Wife of, husband of, daugher/sister of. Any key information can also be included, but its not really needed.

That's more of what I include: "Vicky Jones: 38-eight-year old mother of Timmy, works as a bank teller." Basic information so readers can place who the character is and/or where they appeared in the story (i.e. physical location).

That is the type info I like in a character list.

This is my average style of cats list:

The ages given are those of the character when they first come into the story, so they'll be older by the end of it. This is not a complete list, and is made from the list of people and names I had as a memory aid. I'm fairly sure it covers all the important and main players, as well as some others. There are lots of secondary characters who come and go through the story that aren't listed, like the many security guards.

Akimi - Japanese/American girl that came under Al's control and is now the happy slave and girlfriend of Randy Manning.

'Al' Allyn Robyn Evans Adams - late teens boy, central character and narrator, is very rich, and a skilled martial artist. Also known as Arctic, Archie, Smilodon, and Torao.

Alison Howard - a woman in her late twenties Al befriends at the hotel, and has an affair with. Her husband is George Howard.

'Belle' Annabelle Williams - 16 year old sister of Paul Williams and Al's school mate. She's very submissive and asks to become Al's slave.

Bento - the name of a minor Yakuza clan that comes into conflict with Al and it's leadership is eliminated. The clan merges with Shoji's clan.

Mr Belling - Al's main lawyer, he's located in Australia

Just enough to let the reader now how a character fits into the story.