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Government id to access porn sites

Switch Blayde 🚫

Louisiana residents will now need a government ID to access porn online.

From https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/louisiana-government-id-to-access-porn-online-065536172.html

A new state law went into effect on January 1st, requiring websites containing "a substantial portion" of "material harmful to minors" to ask users to prove that they're 18 or older. "Substantial portion," according to the new law, is more than 33.3 percent of a website's content. As Gizmodo notes, Pornhub, Youporn and Redtube have already started asking visitors to verify their age.

Websites that host content that can be considered porn have to implement "reasonable age verification methods," including asking users to present a government-issued ID or a digitized form of it. Pornhub, Youporn and Redtube had chosen to ask visitors to prove their age by using their LA Wallet app, which is the state's digital wallet app for drivers licenses.

Replies: tblev2011 Marius-6 Creepy Uncle Pete JoeBobMack richardshagrin Creepy Uncle Pete ystokes ystokes palamedes irvmull

tblev2011 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Not in Louisiana myself, but I'm curious if they have something in place to combat the use of VPN's.

Replies: garymrssn

garymrssn 🚫

@tblev2011

When they do that only criminals and the government will have VPNs.
Until they make them illegal for us commoners, I would recommend ProtonVPN Free which also includes a free encrypted email account.
Pardon the shameless promotion.

Gary

Marius-6 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I think that most of us agree with the Intent of preventing kids having unrestricted access to pornography. Under age 18? 16? 21? Or... age 26? Since the the government(s) are "schizophrenic" about the age of majority.

"Kids" are not legally allowed to have Midol nor aspirin at school; yet they are allowed to have their genitals mutilated in most of USA! "Kids" up to age 26 are "entitled" to health insurance under their parents, and are counted as "children" for "gun violence" statistics (because firearms rarely attack "adults"). Politicians, some of them want 14 year olds to vote; but they are not allowed to purchase a beer until age 21.

Ironically teens, and many tweens are more knowledgeable about navigating the internet and VPNs than most politicians 😳

Pornography is a huge source of tax revenues to multiple levels of governments, and an even larger amount of the economy of many states/nations.

Politicians will generally cater to the "Squeakist Wheels" as long as it doesn't significantly effect tax revenues. Lotteries and casinos 🎰 being reasonable comparisons of "morals" vs. Cash 💸 $$$$$ 🙄

"Jailbait" is a term that can no longer be searched on Google and similar Western websites. Yet Hundreds of Thousands, perhaps Millions of teens, 16 and under are Trafficked and sexually Exploited in the USA and other Western nations every year!

Imagery seems to be prioritized over substance.

VPNs are useful for many people to protect themselves from many threats on the internet. Unfortunately, elements of Government, as well as wealthy entities who have significant influence over Western governments find VPNs "problematic" to their interests.

Cui Bono

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@Marius-6

Unfortunately, elements of Government, as well as wealthy entities who have significant influence over Western governments find VPNs "problematic" to their interests.

Of course they do, after all, they are among the biggest threats that need to be avoided.

Creepy Uncle Pete 🚫

@Switch Blayde

When asked about this new law, a few politicians in my area seemed angry they didn't think of it first. Now they have a similar law in the works.

Suggestion - In case similar laws are passed in your area and VPNs get blocked or circumvented, download what you can, while you still can.

I case of an internet porn drought, I have six spindles of bluray data disks in my closet. Would you expect any less from 'Creepy Uncle Pete'?

Replies: Dicrostonyx

Dicrostonyx 🚫

@Creepy Uncle Pete

I case of an internet porn drought

Even if all states followed suit, which is highly unlikely, the US only accounts for 4% of global population. Granted a good percentage of people live in countries that are more restrictive, but I'm pretty sure that the porn industries of Europe, Japan, Mexico, and South America will be unaffected by whatever craziness state politicians in the US come up with.

JoeBobMack 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Doing a little checking, I found this in an article about this law:

Australia and the UK already require age verification for access to pornography through a number of third-party verification providers.

Comments from folks in those areas?

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@JoeBobMack

Australia and the UK already require age verification for access to pornography through a number of third-party verification providers.

Comments from folks in those areas?

It's my understanding that in the UK, independent age verification for access to pornography is on the government's wish list, but there's no consensus about how to achieve it. I think it's currently been kicked down the line. There is more prospect of an on-line harm's bill going through, but that seems more aimed at stopping kids accessing eg suicide forums, or encountering speech that the wokerati consider harmful.

I could be wrong - I haven't actually tried to access porn for a long time, but I thought I'd start the ball rolling.

AJ

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I haven't actually tried to access porn for a long time

The reason I brought this up is because I assumed SOL would be considered a porn site by the lawmakers. And that SOL might have to implement an age verification.

Replies: awnlee jawking Dicrostonyx

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

The reason I brought this up is because I assumed SOL would be considered a porn site by the lawmakers. And that SOL might have to implement an age verification.

God I hope not. I suffer from ID poverty so it's a nightmare trying to prove my age and identity. I had an on-line bookie's account suspended because my birth certificate wasn't sufficient age verification.

The UK government ruled literature isn't porn, but what governments ruled can be unruled, plus there's been a notable uptick in illustrated 'stories' on SOL :-(

AJ

Dicrostonyx 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Even if legislators in Louisiana consider SOL to meet their definition of a site that is harmful to minors it wouldn't matter. Louisiana's state laws only apply within that state. SOL isn't even in the same country.

The same thing that makes SOL require all characters to be over the age of 14 also protects the site from various state laws. SOL is located in Canada and must follow Canadian laws.

Replies: Michael Loucks

Michael Loucks 🚫

@Dicrostonyx

Even if legislators in Louisiana consider SOL to meet their definition of a site that is harmful to minors it wouldn't matter. Louisiana's state laws only apply within that state

The question would come down to what 'doing business in the state' means, and if there is sufficient nexus for Louisiana to regulate the website providers.

I don't think the answer is clear, even if it seems obvious that so long as he website isn't hosted in Louisiana and the company running it isn't based in Louisiana that the law doesn't apply.

We'll have to wait for the court test to see.

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫
Updated:

@Michael Loucks

website isn't hosted in Louisiana and the company running it isn't based in Louisiana that the law doesn't apply.

I assume it's where the minor is located. That the law says the porn website must prevent a minor from LA accessing their site, and the only valid way of doing that (per the law) is a government issued id to prove their age. If a LA minor accesses a porn website (assuming they didn't use fake id), then is the website guilty of breaking the law by not preventing it based on the law's rules?

The reason I mention fake id is because Traci Lords was underage when she performed in porn movies. I think she was 16. The only reason no one went to prison was because she had a government issued id (driver's license?) that said she was 18. They had to destroy all the films made that hadn't sold yet, which cost them a fortune, but they weren't prosecuted.

Replies: Dicrostonyx Grey Wolf

Dicrostonyx 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

Traci Lords DID NOT have government issued ID saying that she was 18. She had fake ID saying that she was legal. It just happened to be good quality fake ID.

The whole business is really complicated, but put simply her mother's boyfriend (who was sexually abusing Traci) helped her get an abortion and put her in touch with someone who would help Traci make money to pay for said abortion. This friend arranged ID that said she was 20 when she was 15. The boyfriend then posed as Traci's stepfather and legal guardian and acted as her agent, first for a series of magazine shoots then in porn.

Also, some people did in fact go to prison over it. The owners of Lords' movie agency and of X-Citement Video, which distributed Lords' films, were arrested and charged with child pornography. The case went all the way to the Supreme Court, but eventually Robin Gottesman, owner of said company, served one year in jail and paid a $100,000 fine.

Replies: helmut_meukel

helmut_meukel 🚫

@Dicrostonyx

eventually Robin Gottesman, owner of said company, served one year in jail

Funny, a porn producer with this name (literally: God's man).
Bet one of his ancestors dropped the second n of his original name 'Gottesmann', probably caused by anti-German resentments in the first half of last century.

HM.

Replies: Dicrostonyx

Dicrostonyx 🚫

@helmut_meukel

Funny, a porn producer with this name (literally: God's man).

If you're going to explore the etymology it's worth noting that Robin is a medieval diminutive of Robert, which comes from the Germanic Hrodebert, meaning "bright fame". So he was essentially "famous God's man".

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@Dicrostonyx

So he was essentially "famous God's man".

In that construct who is famous, the man or God?

Replies: Dicrostonyx

Dicrostonyx 🚫

@Dominions Son

Well, since they're separate names, the man. The first name, Robin, is the "Famous," and the last name is collectively "God's man".

A better question would probably be whether "God's man" is meant in the sense of a priest, in the sense of someone who is personally very good, or in the sense of someone who is protected by God. Unfortunately, not only do I have no idea, but I'm not even sure if the answer can be known.

We can usually backtrack names by looking at etymological changes over time, but unless someone specifically wrote down that a change happened and why (which is very rare) we don't always know precisely when a shift happened or what influenced it.

Grey Wolf 🚫

@Switch Blayde

The Louisiana law apparently has its remedies in civil suits (like the Texas abortion law - this is going to be the tool of choice for people across the spectrum who want to try to minimize the chances of litigants getting into a position to strike it down).

thecentersquare.com/louisiana/new-louisiana-law-on-age-verification-for-porn-sites-could-face-legal-challenge/article_dd61170a-8dff-11ed-9535-af889ee1c000.html

My suspicion is that it'll get struck down on interstate commerce grounds, but not before a lot of court time is spent on it. And every porn site not based in the US will shrug and move on.

On the other hand, the Fifth Circuit saw fit to let the insane Texas 'Social Media' law stand (though the Supreme Court temporarily blocked it):

https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/15/tech/tech-groups-supreme-court-texas-social-media-law/index.html

So, who knows?

richardshagrin 🚫

@Switch Blayde

SOL is located in Canada and must follow Canadian laws.

We are lucky it doesn't have to be in French. Quebec speaks French, at least their version of it.

Creepy Uncle Pete 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

A key phrase in the Louisiana law is "Any commercial entity..." The law wouldn't apply to sites that don't generate any income in Louisiana. If they block Louisiana residents from all of the site's paid features they should be okay, in theory.

Another possible loophole is "This Section shall not apply to any bona fide news or public interest.."

Set up a site and call it "Sex News" , "Porn News" or similar, and you may get away with it that way too.

Disclaimer - This is not legal advice. I am not a legal professional. People who follow my advice tend to watch large amounts of mediocre porn, greatly increasing the chance of them becoming sex addicts. You have been warned.

ystokes 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I can see this law being thrown out over the right of privacy part of the Constitution.

I can see this law being used for blackmail.

I assume this law only applies to those who live in LA. What I would like to see is all the porn sites just block everyone in that state with a disclaimer that they should take it up with their state's leaders.

Replies: DBActive

DBActive 🚫

@ystokes

There's no more a privacy claim than requiring a seller to obtain proof of age when purchasing cigarettes or alcohol. The distribution of porn to minors is a violation in every state and the state can establish requirements to limit that.

ystokes 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

The difference would be a liquor store doesn't keep a record of your ID.

"As homophobia and transphobia — especially homophobia in the context of porn — is rising, I could totally see the state zeroing in on people consuming gay porn, or lesbian porn, and either surveilling them further or criminalizing that." Critics are also raising security and privacy concerns about having to present IDs to access porn online even if Pornhub promises that one's "proof of age does not allow anyone to trace [their] online activity."

I can also see a porn site using it to blackmail someone.

Also the site would have to provide all the names to the state. Are you really for the Gov. to have access to everyone who views porn?

Replies: Switch Blayde awnlee jawking

Switch Blayde 🚫

@ystokes

Also the site would have to provide all the names to the state.

I don't think so. I think they would need to prove they validated the age (with a government id) if something came up where the government came knocking.

Like the Traci Lords thing. The government came after them, but they showed that they checked her age (not knowing it was fake id) so they were in the clear. They did their due diligence.

Replies: awnlee jawking ystokes

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I think verifying viewers is a little different to verifying actresses.

AJ

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

I think verifying viewers is a little different to verifying actresses.

Not really. You're verifying their age. Just like verifying someone's age for drinking alcohol.

Replies: ystokes awnlee jawking

ystokes 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Not really. You're verifying their age. Just like verifying someone's age for drinking alcohol.

But no store or bar takes a photo of your ID.

Replies: Switch Blayde DBActive palamedes

Switch Blayde 🚫
Updated:

@ystokes

But no store or bar takes a photo of your ID.

They do if it's an online store, and we're talking about porn websites.

This article goes into detail for online sellers of alcohol to verify age: https://www.avalara.com/us/en/learn/whitepapers/getting-it-right-the-4-steps-to-age-verification-for-direct-shippers.html

The part that is pertinent to this discussion is:

The two ways direct shippers can verify age are:

Using a state-approved online verification provider. Online verification providers access publicly available data to validate that a buyer's name and address match that of an individual over the age of 21. While using a software provider is an extra expense, it's more secure and puts the seller at less risk. See an example of Michigan's approved online age verification providers.

Collecting and storing the verification record themselves. With this method, the direct shipper is responsible for collecting and securely storing a copy of the buyer's government-issued ID. Considering this information is highly sensitive PII, sellers must ensure records are organized and stored in a manner that adequately protects customer data.

Replies: ystokes

ystokes 🚫

@Switch Blayde

They do if it's an online store, and we're talking about porn websites.

I buy my smokes online and I just have to check a box that I am of age and of coarse give them my CC number.

the direct shipper is responsible for collecting and securely storing a copy of the buyer's government-issued ID.

Thanks for making my point about sites keeping records.

DBActive 🚫

@ystokes

I know that in my state chain stores regularly scan IDs for purchase of alcohol and purchase of cigarettes.

Replies: ystokes

ystokes 🚫

@DBActive

I know that in my state chain stores regularly scan IDs for purchase of alcohol and purchase of cigarettes.

Sucks to live were you live. Here in California we just have to let them see our ID and pretty much only if you look underage.

Of course you can ask to see the ID of a MILF if you want to make her feel good.

Replies: DBActive Michael Loucks

DBActive 🚫

@ystokes

Not talking about all stores, usually just the large chains. It's not mandated by law, but something the stores do to protect themselves.

Michael Loucks 🚫

@ystokes

Of course you can ask to see the ID of a MILF if you want to make her feel good.

A friend of mine owns a bar and cards literally everyone. The bartenders and waitresses get some odd responses from senior citizens.

It's a smart policy because there are sting operations against license holders all the time.

palamedes 🚫

@ystokes

But no store or bar takes a photo of your ID.

We have stores, bars, and clubs that take your ID and swipe the magnetic strip. No photo needed when all the info needed is provided in the magnetic strip.

Replies: ystokes

ystokes 🚫

@palamedes

We have stores, bars, and clubs that take your ID and swipe the magnetic strip. No photo needed when all the info needed is provided in the magnetic strip.

The only time I ever let someone take a image of my DL is at the dr's office. I would never let anyone swipe my card since I don't even know whats info is on it.

Replies: StarFleet Carl palamedes

StarFleet Carl 🚫

@ystokes

I would never let anyone swipe my card since I don't even know whats info is on it.

Name, address, DL#, expiration dates, and DOB (which is what's ON your DL) is the info we got. We had this handy little app on our phones we used to simply scan the code on the back.

Oh, and we did it for OUR protection as salesmen before we let you go out on a test drive. We've (in the metro area) had people pull guns on salesmen and simply steal the car, we've had people simply SHOOT the salesman, and due to liability insurance AND state law, you had to have a valid DL to test drive the car. (That one was very important to check the first week of each month, because people's license would expire and they had zero clue.)

Replies: awnlee jawking ystokes Not_a_ID

awnlee jawking 🚫

@StarFleet Carl

We've (in the metro area) had people pull guns on salesmen

Your salesmen don't carry guns?!

AJ

Replies: Dominions Son StarFleet Carl

Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

@StarFleet Carl

We've (in the metro area) had people pull guns on salesmen

Your salesmen don't carry guns?!

In that specific scenario: in a car at point blank range, the other person already has the drop on them, having their own gun wouldn't do much good. No opportunity to draw it before they get shot.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Dominions Son

I would have thought the salesman would have had a distinct advantage over the person driving the car.

AJ

Replies: Dominions Son StarFleet Carl

Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Net advantage goes to the person to draw first.

You are assuming that the car thief is drawing with the car moving, but they can pull over then order the salesman out of the vehicle at gunpoint.

StarFleet Carl 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I would have thought the salesman would have had a distinct advantage over the person driving the car.

Keep in mind there might not be only ONE person there for the test drive - think boyfriend/girlfriend scenario, or the "I'm helping my brother pick out a car" scenario.

We had one very courteous car thief. He asked if he could take the vehicle down to the hospital to show his wife, since that's where she worked. Salesman went with him, then they went in to a waiting room. Thief bought them both coffee, then was on his phone, allegedly texting his wife, and said, "Hey, she'll be down in about fifteen minutes. Can I go check something out, I'll be right back." Well, his coffee's sitting there, so the salesman says, sure. Fifteen minutes goes by. Salesman isn't paying much attention, he's just happy to be out of the dealership. After half an hour, he realizes something is up, so he goes out to the parking garage where they'd parked. No truck. He gets with hospital security, and they show the footage of them pulling in and going in, then as soon as the salesman was sitting down and safe, the thief went back out, got in the truck, and drove off.

Oh, and we never did get the truck back, but at least the thief didn't use violence.

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@StarFleet Carl

Oh, and we never did get the truck back

They take our driver's license here when we go for a test drive. So how could they not know who took the truck? Fake id?

StarFleet Carl 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Your salesmen don't carry guns?!

At my dealership? Sure. Other dealerships, it was "against company policy" to do so, so they didn't. Of course, it was that way at ours, too, we just ignored it.

Replies: ystokes

ystokes 🚫

@StarFleet Carl

At my dealership? Sure. Other dealerships, it was "against company policy" to do so, so they didn't. Of course, it was that way at ours, too, we just ignored it.

Talk about a two for one deal. They get a car and a gun.

ystokes 🚫

@StarFleet Carl

Oh, and we did it for OUR protection as salesmen

I can understand doing it for a car, but you are not test driving alcohol or cigarettes.

Here all you need to show is your DOB and photo and cover up your name and address.

Replies: DBActive Dominions Son

DBActive 🚫

@ystokes

And if they don't let them scan it, they simply don't sell to you.

Dominions Son 🚫

@ystokes

I can understand doing it for a car, but you are not test driving alcohol or cigarettes.

I'm in Wisconsin, here, it's not needed for the actual sale, but they won't let you drive off the lot with it without seeing a drivers license and proof of insurance.

Not_a_ID 🚫

@StarFleet Carl

That one was very important to check the first week of each month, because people's license would expire and they had zero clue.

My state made it easy. The license expires on your birthday during the year that the renewal is due. Also means that unless you were born in January, you can basically renew the license at any time between January 1st and your birthday and not lose anything for renewing early.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@Not_a_ID

Wisconsin works the same way.

Replies: ystokes

ystokes 🚫

@Dominions Son

Same in California good for 5 years, also if no tickets or accidents in that time you can renew by mail.

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@ystokes

Wisconsin renews every 8 years.

palamedes 🚫

@ystokes

The only time I ever let someone take a image of my DL is at the dr's office. I would never let anyone swipe my card since I don't even know whats info is on it.

The info that you see and read on the front of the ID is what is on the magnetic strip. It is your choice to not let them swipe your card but at the same time you would then be unable to buy alcohol, tobacco products, and even some over the counter medicines. Going to the club and you tell the doorman no on swiping your card they will simply tell you to go home then.

Replies: ystokes

ystokes 🚫

@palamedes

The info that you see and read on the front of the ID is what is on the magnetic strip. It is your choice to not let them swipe your card but at the same time you would then be unable to buy alcohol, tobacco products, and even some over the counter medicines. Going to the club and you tell the doorman no on swiping your card they will simply tell you to go home then.

Unless it is the state law I wouldn't want to do business with them in the first place. I see no reason whatsoever that a store needs to have that info on record.

As I said in my state ( The so-called biggest commi nanny-state in the country) all they get is a look at your ID and you can cover your name and address.

Replies: palamedes

palamedes 🚫

@ystokes

Unless it is the state law I wouldn't want to do business with them in the first place. I see no reason whatsoever that a store needs to have that info on record.

State law doesn't mandate it they just allow it so they do it.

I do know that a shooting crime that happened in a club was solved and that they had the identity of the shooter in a few hours. Then news talked about how the police obtained evidence threw security cameras and the checking in at the door. The picture of the suspect (later convicted of murder) that the news cept showing was of the guy checking in at the door.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Isn't one a nation-wide constraint and the other a state-wide constraint? And the number of porn actresses is hugely smaller than the number of porn viewers, so any verification process will necessarily be more streamlined and amenable to gaming.

AJ

ystokes 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I don't think so. I think they would need to prove they validated the age (with a government id) if something came up where the government came knocking.

And just how would they prove they validated the age? By just taking their word?

Like the Traci Lords thing. The government came after them, but they showed that they checked her age (not knowing it was fake id) so they were in the clear. They did their due diligence.

And how did they show that they checked her age? By showing the gov. her fake ID. Just as they would have to show the ID's of everyone who visited their site.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@ystokes

I can also see a porn site using it to blackmail someone.

I frequently get scam e-mails telling me they've hacked my computer and seen the porn I download, and if I don't give them so many bitcoins they'll send e-mail evidence to everyone in my contact list. ;-)

Seems reality hasn't yet caught up with fiction.

AJ

Replies: ystokes

ystokes 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I frequently get scam e-mails telling me they've hacked my computer and seen the porn I download, and if I don't give them so many bitcoins they'll send e-mail evidence to everyone in my contact list. ;-)

I would get those myself. I wish I could have contacted him so I could point out the flaws in his claims.

Seems reality hasn't yet caught up with fiction.

How do we know? I don't think a anti-gay preacher admitting to watching a man being screwed by a horse.

palamedes 🚫

@Switch Blayde

The difference would be a liquor store doesn't keep a record of your ID.

I do not no about all 50 states but I can tell you that the DMV ( Department of Motor Vehicles ) in the state of Michigan does allow store to record and keep records of your scanned ID.

Of course this isn't very surprising for Michigan as our own state government markets and sells the info and data that the DMV collects. Originally this data was to only be sold to insurance companies, car manufacturers, and similar type companies but now it is avalable to anyone who can pay the fee.

irvmull 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

Facebook required a scan of my driver's license before they would let me sign up.

Naturally, I didn't sign up.

What I should have done was tell them I'm "undocumented", then they'd have to let me sign up without any ID at all.

Replies: ystokes

ystokes 🚫

@irvmull

Facebook required a scan of my driver's license before they would let me sign up.

How long ago was this? Could this be just in the country you are in?