One of the things that I find annoying is, an author writing dialog with a statement like: "My name is Major John Smith."
Major is a title. The character's name is John Smith. If the author wants to include the character's title, they could write something like: "I am Major John Smith."
Does anyone else find this annoying?
You've obviously never met a college professor who insisted their name was Doctor X. People really talk like that…. Also it's dialogue, it's not meant to be perfect
People really talk like that….
Always drives me nuts when they do, but yeah.
Medical doctors rarely seem to insist on their name being Doctor X, but people with PhDs that have nothing to do with medicine sometimes do.
but people with PhDs
They paid good money for the packet of cornflakes in which the degree was a free gift ;-)
AJ
Worse than Phd are Ed.D.s.
A part-time, at most, 3 year degree. They almost all insist on using the title - such as the First Lady.
Everybody knows what BS is. Sometimes Bachelor of Science, sometimes bull feces. MS is more of the same, and PhD is piled higher and deeper.
Ed D is a diminutive for a guy named Ed. Sometimes pronounced Eddie.
Ed.D.s.
Education Specialist Degree?
I don't think I've ever heard of that one.
There are a couple of odd 3-year things that are in a halfway space between a Master's and a Doctorate that always get complicated when someone asks your level of education.
Does anyone else find this annoying?
No. That character wanted it made clear he was a major (status) or maybe to make it clear he wanted to be called Major John Smith.
It would be more amusing if he was a Major John Thomas.....
No, amusing would be Major Minor or Major Disaster.
No, amusing would be
Depends on your level of humour and understanding of John Thomas....
Depends on your level of humour and understanding of John Thomas....
Sorry, the name doesn't mean a thing to me.
ETA: Having looked it up and discovered it's a British euphemism for Richardshagrin, I still don't find it all that amusing. :)
Having looked it up and discovered it's a British euphemism for Richardshagrin
Please stop fuelling StarfleetCarl's delusions ;-)
AJ
It doesn't sound exactly right.
"The name is Major Smith, to you!" works.
Or, "I'm Major John Smith" in more friendly situations, or where there are multiple Smiths in the room.
One of the things that I find annoying is, an author writing dialog with a statement like: "My name is Major John Smith."
Could be worse: Major Major Major Major ;-)
AJ
Actually, there was a time when Major and Lieutenant were actual given names and people were christened with them. I've seen the old English Parish Records listing a number of people with those as given names and even used that in one of my stories.
I had a friend in highschool who was a "surprise" baby, his parents were past middle-age (or at least well into it). His father was in the US Army Air Corps before and during WWII. His father's name was Major E. (family name withheld). His rank during the latter part of the war was Major.
He was "Major Major E."
He was a distinguished gentleman, who retained much of his southern accent and dialect; quite refined and proper. Several of us were planning upon military careers. The Major would occasionally regale us with tales of his time in service; mostly humorous stories. He was a real pistol!
He also earned the Silver Star and several other awards. His record, and my friend's academic and other achievements got him an appointment to the USMA at West Point.
Actually, there was a time when Major and Lieutenant were actual given names and people were christened with them.
That's not ancient. Major Garrett is a CBS Chief Washington Correspondent and he was born in 1962.
If the author is trying to Show the character is officious, or persnickety, then writing: "My name is Major Richard Kopf." could be appropriate. Otherwise, your version is probably better.
I had an English Professor, who insisted being addressed, verbally, on our papers, and in email, as Doctor stating, "I earned a PhD, and expect you all will address me as Doctor, Not professor!" (She both taught English 203, and was Born in England.) More than once she proclaimed, "My Name IS DOCTOR..."
There are times when a person may believe it is appropriate to include or substitute their rank or title for their name.
When I was a Squad Leader, off duty, there were times when I might be more relaxed, in particular with my veteran soldiers. We had a mutual respect for each other and would be informal. However, there was a time and place for such conduct. The same was true in the reverse for a number of officers I knew well. Several I had gone to college with, and we had participated in ROTC. One I had mentored while he was a Cadet, and I was an NCO instructing him; then for a while he was my Platoon Leader; years later he was a Major, and I was a Staff NCO.
I had a couple of young soldiers who were aware some other NCOs allowed the use of their First Names' when "off duty" (sometimes even when on duty). They were aware that I would sometimes be informal to some of the E-4 and below soldiers in our Company.
When they would ask, "What is your first name?"
I replied, "To you. Sergeant!"
I was cutting them a little slack, I did not demand my full rank of Staff Sergeant.
I find it somewhat jarring in the Stargate TV serieses when the team introduce themselves to the natives as eg Ronon, Teyla, Lieutenant Colonel Sheppard and McKay.
AJ
Don't forget, it's "Colonel O'Neill, Two L's!"
With only one L it would be "Co'nel" wouldn't it? ;-)
HM.
Don't forget, it's "Colonel O'Neill, Two L's!"
He would do that as an inside joke due to the fact that there was a [REAL] Mark J. O'Neil {Years of service 1986–2019 rank of Major General - Awards Army Distinguished Service Medal, Defense Superior Service Medal, Legion of Merit, Bronze Star Medal, Meritorious Service Medal} and the US military (especially the United States Air Force) would help and support the show with Generals, Admirals, and Defense Secretary making walk-on and guest appearances.
And since Jack O'Neill in the show could care less about medals and awards he was always when someone might wish to place blame or complaints against him he was sure to make them know that his name was O'Neill and that's with TWO L's.
Perhaps USAF officer Mark J. O'Neil was a reason.
In the Stargate Movie USAF Colonel Jack O'Neil was portrayed by Kurt Russell (and was a rather intense character); thus the character in the TV show would occasionally mention, "the Other Colonel O'Neil doesn't have much of a sense of humor."
In the Stargate Movie USAF Colonel Jack O'Neil was portrayed by Kurt Russell
Back then I didn't understand why they changed the MC's name in the TV show to Jack O'Neill.
I don't remember "the Other Colonel O'Neil doesn't have much of a sense of humor." I should remember this but I don't. Probably it was never in the German version, cut off during dubbing. In Germany all foreign language movies and TV shows get dubbed, often adapted in length to the slightly different formats (no commercial breaks in ARD and ZDF after 20:15).
HM.
In the Stargate Movie the audience is introduced to Colonel O'Neil (Kurt Russell) and it appears he is contemplating "Eating His Gun" (suicide); due to the death (murder) of his entire family (in particular his daughter). US Air Force officials arrive and ask/order him to head up the "Security Team" to an alien world through the Stargate. He seems ambivalent.
When we see him leading the other USAF personnel he seems quite intense, considering their circumstances (Stranded on an Alien world; not unreasonable).
Spoiler Alert! later we learn Only Colonel O'Neil was aware that there was a Nuclear Bomb, that Colonel O'Neil was supposed to use to destroy the Stargate to prevent aliens from "discovering" getting to Earth. They counted on his Lack of desire to live to be willing to detonate the Nuclear Bomb.
Thus, Colonel O'Neil being "Humorless" is both understandable, and well portrayed by Kurt Russell.
Big Trouble In Little China is one of my Top Ten Favorite Movies. I enjoyed "Snake" Plisken in Escape from New York. I believe his best role was portraying Wyatt Earp in Tombstone! I think that his role as Colonel O'Neil may be his second best performance.
"the Other Colonel O'Neil doesn't have much of a sense of humor."
I reread my post and realized its ambiguity concerning the quote.
What I meant was I don't remember the TV O'Neill ever making this remark or anywhere in the TV show someone to acknowledge the leader of the original expedition (as shown in the movie) was another Colonel O'Neil.
But – as I wrote in my previous post – they may have cut these scenes during the dubbing.
That's the fun when reading or viewing translations.
HM.
I think it's clear that audiences were intended to equate Colonel O'Neil with Colonel O'Neill.
In the TV Series Pilot, Colonel O'Neill was privy to information that only someone who had actually been on the visit to Abidos would have known - that the Abidos gate hadn't been blown up and that Daniel Jackson was still alive. Both those facts were obviously omitted from the mission report.
I'm not sure whether the box of tissues was a prearranged signal or smart thinking. It's plausible that Daniel Jackson's allergies were in Stargate Command's files, but would anyone thinking Jackson was dead bother to look up and remember the information?
Since continuity errors are so common in 'big US TV dramas', it's no great leap to imagine that nobody bothered to proofread O'Neil's name.
AJ
In the TV Series Pilot, Colonel O'Neill was privy to information that only someone who had actually been on the visit to Abidos would have known - that the Abidos gate hadn't been blown up and that Daniel Jackson was still alive. Both those facts were obviously omitted from the mission report.
It was supposed to be a suicide mission for Colonel O'Neil. If the gate had been blown up, there would be no mission report from O'Neil.
No one else sent to Abidos knew about that part of the mission, so if everyone else gated home and O'Neil stayed behind to complete that part of the mission, it couldn't be in the mission report.
It was supposed to be a suicide mission for Colonel O'Neil.
Is that true? As a last resort, perhaps, but the bomb was on a timer, leaving time for O'Neil to activate it then gate home. IIRC, O'Neil hadn't been told that the timer, once activated, couldn't be deactivated.
The TV pilot needs to be checked, but I think General Hammond? believed that Jackson was dead and the bomb should have destroyed the Abidos gate.
AJ
AJ
It was supposed to be a suicide mission for Colonel O'Neil.
Is that true?
IIRC from the movie, the fact that he was already suicidal is why he was chosen to lead the mission. No reason for that if it wasn't intended to be a suicide mission.
Also, you are dealing with an enemy known/suspected of being technologically superior. You have no way of knowing what they might be able to do to disable the device. Therefore, someone would have to stay behind and defend it until it goes off.
IIRC, which is far from a given, the Goa'uld incursion was unexpected because Stargate Command believed there had only been one other stargate, the one on Abidos, because that was the only gate address that had ever worked, and because they believed the Abidos gate had been destroyed.
There's no point in guessing how the movie ended, because Jackson clearly made his decision to stay behind and watched the others depart back to Earth.
AJ
There's no point in guessing how the movie ended
No need to guess how the movie ended if you've seen the movie.
Stargate Command believed there had only been one other stargate
True, but at the time setting of the movie they also had no knowledge that the stargate was created by a different alien race than would be found on the other side of the gate.
It would have been inordinately stupid to not expect that the expedition would encounter a more technologically advanced enemy.
It would have been inordinately stupid to not expect that the expedition would encounter a more technologically advanced enemy.
That's what the nuke was for. O'Neil wasn't obliged to use it if there was no danger.
Besides, having superior races kick sand in our unprepared faces is the staple plotline of SciFi films and TV series ;-)
AJ
That's what the nuke was for. O'Neil wasn't obliged to use it if there was no danger.
But if he felt the need to use it, he wasn't coming back.
But if he felt the need to use it, he wasn't coming back.
Why not? It was on a timer that couldn't be stopped. And he did make it back, apparently reporting that the gate was destroyed.
AJ
It was on a timer that couldn't be stopped. And he did make it back, apparently reporting that the gate was destroyed.
IIRC (it's been a while since I've seen the movie) at the end: Ra had enhanced the device and his guards were setting up to gate the bomb back to Earth. O'Neil and Daniel fought the guards and Daniel used the ring teleporter to send the bomb to Ra's ship before O'Neil returned.
In the Stargate Movie the audience is introduced to Colonel O'Neil (Kurt Russell) and it appears he is contemplating "Eating His Gun" (suicide); due to the death (murder) of his entire family (in particular his daughter). US Air Force officials arrive and ask/order him to head up the "Security Team" to an alien world through the Stargate. He seems ambivalent.
The story line for the movie and tv show is the same in that O'Neil/O'Neill son got ahold of his side arm and while handling/playing with it accidently killed himself and this lead to his wife never forgiving him and brought upon their divorce. Jack thus blamed himself and was in sense contemplating suicide and was why he had no problem with a possible one way no hope mission.
Jack thus blamed himself and was in sense contemplating suicide
I believe the movie showed a dishevelled Jack with a gun in his hand and about to pull the trigger to eat a bullet when the air force guys arrived to reactivate him.
AJ
I had a full screw who's last name was Cumbers. A cracking lad who when he was made up, was posted out to his new roll as QMSI, who off course are known and called 'Q'....
We actually reckon it was done deliberately.
General is a fairly well used name, particularly for companies. General Motors, General Mills, even General Hospital.
Actually, years ago when writing a story for a class I looked up how to properly write names for active-duty military personnel.
According to both the Canadian and US military, the first time a character is introduced their name should be listed as Rank Last Name . First name is optional if relevant later, but not necessary.
All future uses of the character's name should be by last name only, except in situations where it make sense for them to be using their first name, such as speaking to a partner off-duty.
So for your example, '"My name is Major John Smith," Smith said' or "My name is Major Smith." would be correct.
While you can certainly choose to write names however you wish, leaving out the rank when introducing a military character will be a noticeable error to any reader versed in military writing.
That is only in a formal situation, Orders/Commands etc, otherwise they are most likely to use the more informal nick-names the individuals have earned - one way or another- within their unit.
In a day to day 'work' situation we always called people in authority by their 'overall rank' or something like 'Sir' or 'Maam'.
People in authority referred to those under by an overall rank.
Like saying 'sergeant' rather than what kind of sergeant. You don't call out the 'staff', 'master', etc part unless it's relevant to differentiating between people.
I recall many situations were someone would be talked about by their rank number. Like "O3" or "E7" - especially if talking about someone in another branch or when asked for filling out some form.
If some guy walked up to me and said "I'm a Seaman First Class" My brain would hear 'first class semen' and so Id be thinking "in your dreams you are," but if he said "I'm an E3" I'd know exactly what he was referring to.
(And not having been Navy, I'm not even sure if that's the same rank.)
Actually, the above was on on military page for how to write military characters in fiction. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.
I'm not saying that this overrides actual military protocol in the real world, just that this is the military's own advice to authors who wish to write about military characters in a respectful manner.
So, you introduce the character using their rank, then henceforth use their last name in narration. This is separate from dialogue.
I suppose the caveat here is all military's are different.
My experience is that in a unit, things are far less formal and rank is only used when you have fucked up, or in formal dispatches, otherwise nicknames are used with the exception of senior ranks (Sgt and above) and officers, and even then, that varies with the individual.
However, when a junior rank likes to be known by their rank, that's always a good indication that the individual is a prick and can safely be treated as such.
Rank might be used when temporarily attached to a new unit (ie as support staff -Chef, radio op, medic, Engr, clerk) until such times as the individual is 'bed into' the attached unit; that time depends on whether the individual is known to the unit beforehand by previous experience or reputation.
When attached to another unit, you may keep your nickname, or one might be given to you. For instance, a Welsh person in a Purely English unit, will inevitably be know as 'Taff' until such time another Welsh person joins at which point you may either be given a new nickname that corresponds with a incident of notoriety within the unit or simply be called 'Taff one' and the other 'Taff 2'
If you are a Scot then you become 'Jock'.
These names tend to get carried over to exercises and actual Operations. So in a briefing, it's simply "Taff, take your section and do x" or "Scouse and mad-dog, you are on stag 22-2400 hrs, Peanut and Screech, you take over 2400 till 2" etc etc."
I would actually pay less attention on rank when writing a military story and more on the acronyms. These vary depending on units and their speciality, ranging from alert states to ready states (CEFO etc), The army sure loves it's acronyms.
Also, in the UK, different branches have different words for exactly the same thing and stand by if you get it wrong... (ie, in the army a hot drink is called a 'brew' but in the marines/navy, it's a 'wet') so having your marines asking if you want a 'brew' would be more jarring than the use of rank to someone of military experience.
this is the military's own advice to authors who wish to write about military characters in a respectful manner
What they advise and reality are two separate things ;)
It does seem handy though for initial character introductions.
In my current inwork there are a bunch of military people around during an 'Alien First contact' written from the POV of one of the aliens.
So at first she's just saying "the uniformed ones were doing this and that", then she starts noting "the older one in the more elaborate uniform said something and the others ran off to do this or that."
Only after they get to a point of basic translation do I then do what's being noted above, and say "I learned the older one was Captain Fernanda Segura" and then move on from there using the last name and 'sometimes rank' when the 'Captain' is being referred to formally or addressed by one of the other 'humans', and the first name when an informal relationship starts to build between that character and some of the 'Aliens'.
All context depending. And probably to be revised a few times in editing based on how I feel about the comments in this thread. :)
So, you introduce the character using their rank, then henceforth use their last name in narration.
So you introduce Captain America, then henceforth you call him just America ;-)
And after introducing Major Major Major Major, he's henceforth referred to as Major Major Major.
AJ
So for your example, '"My name is Major John Smith," Smith said' or "My name is Major Smith." would be correct.
It's the "my name" part that jars me. If he said "I am Major Smith" or "I am Major John Smith", it sounds okay.
