Forum: Site Announcements

My guess wold be there is a limited amount of room, and icons allow you to put a lot more options in place than text. At some point, the UI becomes to cluttered if its all text.

"There will be an icon". Sigh. What's wrong with some textual indication? Text is a far better system than iconography... or do you prefer to read things in Chinese? It actually took me about 30 seconds of looking to find and then parse the silly little envelope as the icon in question. We folks with various visual impairment exist. And read.

After having gone away and come back to the new system, I noticed the new text icon right away. While I had trouble finding the icon, after seeing both, I actually prefer it. For those who've never dealt with it yet, the icon is harder to find, but once you know what you're looking for, the text seems like overkill.

Do with that what you will, as both work fine.

a forwarded message won't have the user's email, so you won't be able to reply by email.

That's fine. I just need to be told I have a message waiting so I know to go look for it.

Since it's technically email, I'll add this here. Just tried to get a kindle version of a story and wound up with a direct download?

If the Kindle, or E-pub copy of the story doesn't direct download from the site to you, how do you expect to get it?

If you choose, the site can email kindle files directly to your kindle when you click the download button for it.

Thanks for that info, I didn't know it. I don't have a Kindle, so it's not possible to do that for me. However, I have accidentally activated the wrong download on my tablet because on that little thing with my big fingers it's too easy to get the button beside the one I want. Thus I ended up with a MOBI file on the tablet instead of the E-pub I was after to read later once away from the wi-fi at home. It downloaded OK and the Tablet had a program to read it, so it wasn't an issue

I find the Kindle app (free) on my tablet to be more useful than my actual Kindle. And with the app, you can read the story, and if you find words you want to look up, you can just touch them on the screen and pop up the dictionary entry for them.

At the risk of being frowned at, or repeating someone else, can I ask why this change wasn't made as an opt in/out?

I may be wrong, but I would assume the messaging system opt in would be activated by the same opt in button the authors currently use to allow for email feedback responses to the author. Send that to not allow emails and you're opted out, is my guess.

All that's changed is the system has an on-site message as against sending you an email.

My understanding is that there is no opt. Email is no longer, and messaging is all, period. Hope I'm wrong.

As an author I can opt to allow people to send me feedback or not - that's the opt in / opt out side of it.

Previously the feedback was sent to me by email. In future the feedback will be provided to me via an on-site messaging system.

What's changed is how the feedback reaches me, that's all. There only needs to be one feedback system, not two, so when the new one comes into action the old one closes down.

but I rarely access any part of the site other than the forum or my reading list. Other interactions have until now been by means of email links

Same here. That's why I brought up the email notification.

Same here. That's why I brought up the email notification.

I'm waiting to see how it tells me there's a message. I use the Forum a lot, but I also use other parts of the site to post and manage my stories as well as find and read stories by others. I would expect, like most such systems, a little icon will appear on the toolbar and have a read spot with a number in it for the number of messages I've not yet read.

I may have missed it, so to clarify my understanding of this function.

I have to check the site to determine if I have any feedback messages - that much is clear.

But if a reader sends me a feedback message and I respond to that feedback, will the new feature send the reader an email or will the reader have to check the site to see if I responded to their feedback.

Will this remove the email link some writers have on their SOL blog pages.

No, those links will switch to the new system.

Wait, you'll also remove my listed email address?

As others have noted, I'll often go a LONG time without checking the main page, so I often miss admin messages and only respond weeks or months later. Even fewer authors will check FS or Sci-Fi main pages, so I'm guessing the majority of 'messages' will be missed by either author or reader, and when they DO eventually respond, the other party will have already forgotten about it.

While it might work for an ongoing story, since many only read completed stories, few authors will know when readers read a particular story.

I checked out the new feature.

1. I didn't see any announcement to readers and Authors who do not participate in the Forum that there is a new messaging feature. There is also no explanation of where the icon to access the feature is located.

2. The new screen does not include a new message button. No messages in my inbox yet, so I have to assume there are features that allow me to initiate a response to received feedback. However, what about when I want to initiate a comment to a reader regarding prior feedback?

There is no way (yet)

I understand, one step at a time.

I understand, one step at a time.

I was just thinking this as well. Let the update go in, see how it works, then let's talk about it.

I was just thinking this as well

Right. Try it out, and work to improve it before we start complaining and tearing it apart. It will probably follow the usual pattern: some love it, some hate it, and the rest accept it.

I will now look for the button on my main page.

Top right between Sign Out and Webmaster.

May I suggest the icon beside the sign out link be made just a little bigger, say the same size as the sign out text, I had to check the page real hard to find it.

I couldn't find it at all until you posted this message. It's disguised as a faint 'envelope' symbol. No one's used it on any of the three SOL sites so far.

I couldn't find it at all

When I looked and saw it, I thought it was a separator. Then I remembered there hadn't been a separator there before. So I clicked it.

Just got my first 'private messaging' message—Whoa Hoo! (on Sci-Fi of all places). Still, it reinforces the limitations for those who rarely visit the lessor used site's main page when they're stories aren't actively posting. In short, authors are unlikely to ever see it, and if authors don't respond shortly—readers are likely to either forget it or take it personally.

That's why I like the earlier suggestions about a possible 'email notification' of existing messages on the site. That way, if the author is still visiting SOL, they'd be warned to visit the off-sites. Or if they only visit the 'Series Updates' page, they'd know to visit the home page to view messages after they've arrived. But I'd make this an 'opt-in', rather than an 'opt-out' option, and I'm also sure that it's low on Lazeez's 'to do' priority list.

Bah, you beat me to the edit. We already have an e-mail link on our homepage.

We don't have the rules hammered out yet. But I don't think a first offence will result in permanent block. Probably couple of warnings before blocking and then block for a period and after more offences permanent block.

Also depends on the kind of offence it is. Some authors are very thin skinned and would be offended over minor things.

I think you need to be considering two criteria:

1. The number of reported posts to the same author,

2. The number of authors reported posts were sent to,

before you block a user.

I've a few readers who object to present tense stories, which is most of what i write, they read every story then object to the tense. I smile, respond nicely, and move on. However, I can see some authors not be as accepting of such criticisms - some of the posts I've received haven't been nice about it. So if a person is only bitching at the one author, then you may need to consider a way to stop them sending to that author or have a higher number before an all author block, while someone bitching to a number of authors may need to be blocked earlier. - just a thought for consideration while you think on the rules.

So if a person is only bitching at the one author, then you may need to consider a way to stop them sending to that author

That was what I asked about. Not to block someone from the site or messaging. But for an author to block an individual from sending them messages.

Will the message icon be somehow different when you have unread messages? I see that is already follows the normal link behaviour and changes to a followed colour once it has been clicked the first time.

I've had three messages and indeed the icon changed to indicate I had unread messages waiting for me.

Just my 1 ⅝ cents:

As the SOL conglomerate has three separate sites with three home pages and consequently three message indicators it would really great if the author or indeed the reader as well could see a combined indicator. That way one would not have to (speculatively:) check all three sites for possible messages. -- Maybe it already works this way and I just didn't know?

Nope. It doesn't. Take it from me, since I'm currently posting to all three sites twice a week, I have to check each site every single day or risk missing messages. And I can't JUST visit the site, I instead have to visit the home page JUST to check for messages before returning to the page I'm interested in.

While minor, and a coding pain for Lazeez, it means authors and readers are unlikely to check for new messages and you can't expect immediate responses like you COULD on the old system (whether or not authors ever responded).

In the future, would you please consider some sort of flag for the messages that have been replied to.

I select and archive a message after I've replied to it.

Although I'd like to be able to archive the sent reply with the inwards message as well.

I appreciate the SOL website and all the great stories I can read through it. I frequently send feedback to the authors of stories I read and while I don't expect all the authors to respond to my feedback (I wish they would) I do get responses from many of them. How am I going to know when a response has been made to the feedback I've sent? Will I get a notification somehow and if so where? Where will I be able to see the response? Will my feedback be available for other readers to see? Will I be able to see feedback from other readers? Will the feedback I send for a chapter only be able to be accessed through that chapter or will it be able to be accessed from the menu for the whole story?

Lazeez answered this, but I figured I'd add a more specific message.

Since you already have most author's email addresses, simply respond to the author's through their private email (that's what I'd prefer, anyway).

When you write, specifically list the chapter, otherwise the author (or reader) won't know, and it may be days or weeks before they notice the message.

For public comments, comments to the story itself (if it's enabled) as that's public, while neither email nor messages are.

I for one do not mind giving my email addresses to writers I communicate with.

Actually, under the old system we were making our email addresses available to each other.

Actually, under the old system we were making our email addresses available to each other.

which was why some authors didn't accept feedback. They didn't want to give out their email address.

there will be a risk involved, but I for one do not mind giving my email addresses to writers I communicate with.

It was just an observation on exchanging emails under the old system.

there will be a risk involved, but I for one do not mind giving my email addresses to writers I communicate with.

There are risks involved in doing that on both ends. Some readers as well as writers just do not want to take that risk. I can understand and respect their choice.

I can understand readers not wanting to offer their private emails, or writers not wanting to make their emails available to Spambots, but personally, I'm proud of what I write, and I'd rather be held responsible if I write something objectionable, rather than 'the authorities' protecting me from offending someone with extremely thin skin.

Basically, as well as caching the messages for some time on your server, forward them to the last known email address for the recipient, with a reply address that will (a) route the messages through your system, and (b) hide the originator's real email address. So, yes, a hybrid system that allows you to monitor all messages as needed, that hides everybody's email addresses, and that allows you to block messages from a reader both selectively and in a blanket fashion as needed.

A hybrid system like that will require a hell of a lot more coding, but even worse, it will require a lot more time to maintain properly and a lot more bandwidth to work.

If someone wants the recipient to know the email address they can simply include it in the message.

Every time I post a new story I get hundreds of messages, and about 98% are a simple 'Thanks for the story.' I keep them only until I respond to the sending, then they usually get deleted, since they aren't needed in the long term. The new system allows me to do the same thing, but with less effort by me, and I won't be automatically providing the sending with me email address.

Guess I'm going to be giving a lot less feedback in the future.

Why, the authors will still see it? So why not still send it?

I know this system will encourage some authors who are security conscious to allow messaging through this system because their email address isn't involved in it.

Guess I'm going to be giving a lot less feedback in the future.

Please, leave any 'undeliverable' email for to me. I'll transpose the story name with one of my own and pretend it's for me, even going so far as correcting my own stories, just so you'll know corrections are truly appreciated! ;D

I don't prefer the new system, but I understand why you felt it necessary to implement it. If I could change one thing, it would be to have the notifications appear on my author page, or at the top of the Forum page, or preferably both. I spend far more time in those areas than anywhere else.

Thanks for the consideration.

This change is necessary and provides so many advantage to the site over email.

1 - Privacy: readers keep their emails private and authors keep their emails private.
2 - Security: we do away with the necessary periodic email address verification, which allowed phishing from nefarious parties.
3 - Nastygram blocking: with the messages saved on the servers, we can figure out those who routinely send offensive feedback and block them
4 - Enable reader to reader private messaging from the forum.

Yes, it's not as convenient as regular email, but it's much better in most other ways.

Still catching up, but ...

Yes, it appears the new system is more advantageous, however, for us old-timers, who've kept all of our emails, including the infamous smiley faces, we'll probably post our email addresses in the End Notes anyway. That way we can retain the information, as well as send additional information the new sites don't allow.

For authors, the system provides less, not more. It offers the site all sort of advantages, and it offers readers person-to-person on-site messaging and privacy protection, which they've never had before, so we authors need to suck it up. But it's still a loss for us.

I'm also looking forward for the email notification of new messages, as I've already 'missed' a couple messages on the different systems since I don't check each site every single day. :(

I understand the new messaging system, I think. I don't understand why this is necessary, and understand even less why it is desirable. More to the point, I don't want a different mail system for my SOL comments; I want to send and receive the thread in my normal email at my normal email address. Several reasons for this:

(1) I prefer dealing with messages in my email client. Not only am I used to it, but I have a folder structure that allows me to file and retrieve stuff later, and I can do searches. I could go on, but let's just say: I have the full power and convenience of a long-supported and well-supported message system in my email client. You won't EVER get to that level of functionality.

Your best bet is 1) either send your email address via the messaging system, or respond via email, 2) copy the messages into email and email yourself in order to retain the records indefinitely and retain the more advanced email options.

Just make sure you SAVE your old email, otherwise you'll lose EVERYTHING the next time you do a system restore or reinstall!

best bet is

One of the problems with the emails I received in the past, is that I have changed email systems and my new system will not open the old emails. Extracting the email content and saving it as a text document is a pain when you have a thousand or more emails to do.

I'm thinking of extracting the content of this system's messages and adding it to a Word file with other identifying data such as sender and date. In my current email system, I sorted my feedback by story or other topic. So I will create one Word file per story. That will simplify my finding a specific something with a keyword search of the file.

One thing I'd like to see in the SOL mailbox is the ability to forward the messages. I've been saving my copies of feedback I send out & the replies from the authors on my feedback. In the last 4 years since I started saving my copies I've sent over 5700 feedback & gotten 2500 replies from the authors, it helps me keep track of what I've read & liked.

Please, Snake, let's start a new thread (in the authors or story description forum) where you can kindly tell everyone which authors respond to messages (and corrections) and which don't. This is a point which continually comes up, so I'm sure there's a real need for this information (i.e. so readers can keep their own lists of which authors NOT to send corrections or suggestions to).

The point of the new system is for SOL to not send messages via email.

I don't know if this has come up (I didn't read every reply in the thread) but I just got 70 emails in an hour because I goofed up the posting of a chapter.

Nothing reminds you that fans read your stories like mistakenly screwing up a post! 'D You can post for years and nary get a message, but screw up once and you'll get 30 or 40.

I don't know the name of that segment but many writers use it.

End Note.

One method is to give your email address as part of the statement at the end of a posted chapter. I don't know the name of that segment but many writers use it. Just add your preferred sol email address in it as a method of receiving feedback. But you need to know that the sender's email will not be verified by sol.

edited to add: I think the site admin's just got tired of being blamed for all the bad ones getting though. This will mean its up to the writer to manage and not the site.

That's a useful suggestion. Starting with this Tuesday's post, I'll start listing my preferred email address in my End Notes (even though they use different emails for different pseudonyms on different sites). I'll also post a warning that I don't always manage to catch messages right away, so readers CAN expect immediate answers via traditional email, but NOT if the use the SOL messaging system!!! :(

One method is to give your email address as part of the statement at the end of a posted chapter. I don't know the name of that segment but many writers use it. Just add your preferred sol email address in it as a method of receiving feedback. But you need to know that the sender's email will not be verified by sol.

edited to add: I think the site admin's just got tired of being blamed for all the bad ones getting though. This will mean its up to the writer to manage and not the site.

That's a useful suggestion. Starting with this Tuesday's post, I'll start listing my preferred email address in my End Notes (even though they use different emails for different pseudonyms on different sites). I'll also post a warning that I don't always manage to catch messages right away, so readers CAN expect immediate answers via traditional email, but NOT if the use the SOL messaging system!!! :(

That's not a limitation that I imposted. The database field for a message is indeed limited to 65 KB or about 12,000 words.

It seems there is a bug somewhere in the code that wraps and quotes the text. I'll look into it.

My message was nowhere near that large (more like 12 to 15 lines), thus I suspect something else happened. I can forward you the message (it was on my FS message board).

Was this a announced here?

I saw a post about the icon being different from the other items on the line and posts that said it was hard to find. I noticed the change yesterday, so Lazeez probably defined it as a problem and fixed it.

Actually that was a bug. 'Mail' was supposed to be for the desktop version and the envelope for phones. I fixed two days ago.

Thanks. That clarifies things. Since I like both, I can now choose which I use. :)

One huge advantage this new system has is it means the reply will get to the original message sender.

I concur.

Microsoft doesn't seem to like the freebie e-mail provider I use for this identity and bounces my replies more often than not.

AJ

One huge advantage this new system has is it means the reply will get to the original message sender. I have a serious on-going issue with some US Telcos who block all email from my ISP. This is because I'm with the largest ISP in the Asian Pacific Area and that includes some spammers in Asia. Due to the spammers the US Telcos block all emails from the ISP and kill off about a third of the world by doing so. Some of them go through an extensive verification system that results in me having to send two emails and use a special website code to get the message through their security system. Even then, there's a lot of emails that still get bounced by the US Telcos.

I've even had some readers send follow up emails wanting to know why I don't reply to them, and when I check I find every single reply has been bounced by their Telco, but I get the abuse for it. I've been mentioning it in my blogs for some years.

The new system means the replies get to the readers, and it's an easy system for me without extra aggravation and work.

It does that, and if either you or the message sender prefer, you/they can STILL use your private emails (addressed above).

The other notorious problem this addresses are all those readers who post questions but leave invalid emails due to typos. The only way (in the past) to address those was in blog posts, but often, the posters wouldn't check the blogs, and just mark the authors off as 'non-responsive'. :(

I personally think using a combination system (messaging email addresses) is the best solution, as it corrects most everything while still keeping the old-school functionality. :)