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Story Scores

richardshagrin 🚫
Updated:

There are lots of posts about how the site scores stories. So here is number 1576 about it. I put it under reviews because reviewers score three numbers for stories, and they get to pick integers between 1 and 10. Although using low numbers too often may get your review dumped.

This is mostly about why scores have an integer and and two decimal places. Like 8.31 or 6.66. Why not out to three decimal places (6.666) or, my suggestion, round to just one decimal place. As guidance to readers, 9.4 is probably as good as 9.44. And 6.99 would round to 7.0 and probably make the author happier. My approach would make a score shown to the reading public 6.5 if the current score is from 6.45 to 6.54. I am not convinced 4 one hundredth of a point is all that important.

If it is, why can't reviewers give a score of 7.5 or 7.1 if they think a story is better than a 7 but not quite as good as other stories they would give an 8 to? If I think a story is a devil's work, why not give it a 6.66?

Here is the first opportunity in several years to get off on how unfair the current scoring system is and how a certain author's stories are being undervalued because some idiots like to give a 1 (you call this a story) if they don't like some of the content. Although I am pretty happy about how the current system works, just why does it give the score down to a hundredth of a point?

Replies: richardshagrin bk69 Reluctant_Sir Switch Blayde

richardshagrin 🚫

@richardshagrin

why can't reviewers give a score of 7.5 or 7.1 if they think a story is better than a 7

Nothing like posting more information to your first post in quite a while. Here is a quote from a review by NC (something) about 4 years ago.

"qhml1 is a wordsmith extraordinaire with this tale. We'll just cut to the chase, as I write this, Finding an Editor has only been available on Storiesonline for a few days, and it is already #88 of 2665 stories – with a higher score than ~97% of the rest! I expect that rating to gain some as more people read it and give it a fair score. Me? I gave it a 9 and wishing I could have put in a decimal point as I think it should be in the 9.4 area. But, given the realities of the 1-10 scoring system here on SOL, its score is lower than deserved. IMO of course."

Reviewers have to make decisions about scoring with every review, except the occasional outlier who just puts down N/A and saves himself some "agony" at the end of his or her review. However then the reader has to actually read the review to get an idea of what the reviewer thinks about the story. So much effort for the poor reader!

bk69 🚫

@richardshagrin

Years ago, when the vast majority of stories scored between 9.2 and 9.8, having two decimal places was actually more useful. It may have outlived its usefulness, but it is what it is.
And... low scores are totally allowed in reviews. You just need to have reasons for those low scores, and you have to be able to word them as constructive criticism. It's not that difficult to modify a unaccepted review to get it cleared.

Replies: muyoso

muyoso 🚫

@bk69

And... low scores are totally allowed in reviews. You just need to have reasons for those low scores, and you have to be able to word them as constructive criticism. It's not that difficult to modify a unaccepted review to get it cleared.

Gonna go ahead and express doubt on that one. You can't even post a comment at the end of a story that is lightly critical without the author deleting it, which was expressly presented as a feature to prevent abusive comments. SOL is heavily skewed towards positive reviews, and most criticism towards stories is quelled.

Replies: Jack Green StarFleet Carl bk69 Robin G. Lovell Mushroom

Jack Green 🚫

@muyoso

You can't even post a comment at the end of a story that is lightly critical without the author deleting it,

Some authors :-)

Replies: muyoso

muyoso 🚫

@Jack Green

I mean, I'm glad its not all, but even allowing some to do it brings in doubt. Its hard for readers to get an idea if a story is going to annoy them or not as there is no real metric to judge stories on this site other than a raw score, as reviews and comments are/can be curated to promote only positives.

StarFleet Carl 🚫

@muyoso

You can't even post a comment at the end of a story that is lightly critical without the author deleting it, which was expressly presented as a feature to prevent abusive comments.

Clicking the link as the author means that I request deletion of the comment. I presume that it's actually monitored, because it's not something done automatically by the system. I've done that with a grand total of three comments, which were in a row, from when I had specifically asked people to NOT argue about something that was in the forums, in the comments for my story and that were irrelevant to the story.

bk69 🚫

@muyoso

Gonna go ahead and express doubt on that one.

Express all the doubt you want. Yeah, a couple crybaby writers pulled stories or turned off the ability to review them or something to get riid of less than glowing reviews, but...
https://storiesonline.net/library/get_review.php?id=56925
It took some creative writing to keep that constructive enough to get by the censors...

Robin G. Lovell 🚫

@muyoso

You can't even post a comment at the end of a story that is lightly critical without the author deleting it, which was expressly presented as a feature to prevent abusive comments

Not all authors are that thin shined.

Mushroom 🚫

@muyoso

Gonna go ahead and express doubt on that one. You can't even post a comment at the end of a story that is lightly critical without the author deleting it, which was expressly presented as a feature to prevent abusive comments. SOL is heavily skewed towards positive reviews, and most criticism towards stories is quelled.

I would argue about that a lot. It really depends on the author.

In more than a few of my stories you can find negative comments. I only delete those that are not negative, but abusive. I will not deny that some may delete any they do not like, but we are not all like that.

Of course, there are many that do not allow comments at all.

Replies: Ernest Bywater StarFleet Carl Michael Loucks

Ernest Bywater 🚫

@Mushroom

I will not deny that some may delete any they do not like, but we are not all like that.

Not only don't I delete any, I usually don't bother reading them as I see them as a reader to reader capability. If a reader wants to talk to me they can do so by sending me a message.

Replies: awnlee jawking Mushroom

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

Not only don't I delete any

Me neither. Some of the comments I've received have been critical but, putting myself in the reader's shoes, I can see why they thought that.

However there is a limit. If someone posted an unjustified piece of abuse, I'd probably ask for it to be deleted. I don't want the comments section to become a hostile environment.

AJ

Replies: bk69 Mushroom

bk69 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I don't want the comments section to become a hostile environment.

The problem is, some writers are such snowflakes that merely not blowing smoke up their ass about how they're the best writers ever that they consider your comments to be creating a hostile environment.

Replies: Mushroom

Mushroom 🚫

@bk69

The problem is, some writers are such snowflakes that merely not blowing smoke up their ass about how they're the best writers ever that they consider your comments to be creating a hostile environment.

For some, sure. But if you look at one of my stories, there is a long and rather negative comment made a month or so back. And it's still there, I am not going to erase it.

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, and if they do not like my writing, so be it. Ultimately, I write for myself really.

Mushroom 🚫

@awnlee jawking

However there is a limit. If someone posted an unjustified piece of abuse, I'd probably ask for it to be deleted. I don't want the comments section to become a hostile environment.

The beauty is, we can delete the comments to our own stories at any time. Just look at the bottom of the comment, there is a little trash can icon. Click, and gone.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Mushroom

The beauty is, we can delete the comments to our own stories at any time.

My understanding is that it issues a delete request to site management. If an author tries to use it in a vindictive or self-aggrandising way, I hope management would take the appropriate action eg switching off all comments for that story.

AJ

Replies: Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@awnlee jawking

My understanding is that it issues a delete request to site management.

used to be like that. But then I figured, they're the author's stories, if they don't like them, it's up them.

So I implemented direct delete few months ago. Now, as an author, if you click the trash on any comment on your stories, the comment will get deleted immediately.

The author will have to decide for themselves what's suitable and bear any possible consequences if any.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

Can readers delete their own comments if they feel they were unjustified or no longer relevant? I've just noticed the comment count on one of my stories has decreased by one, and the comment count has changed from a visited hyperlink to an unvisited hyperlink.

AJ

Replies: Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@awnlee jawking

Can readers delete their own comments if they feel they were unjustified or no longer relevant?

Yes.

Replies: awnlee jawking

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

Thanks.

AJ

Mushroom 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

Not only don't I delete any, I usually don't bother reading them as I see them as a reader to reader capability. If a reader wants to talk to me they can do so by sending me a message.

I only delete those that are abusive, or if I think they are guessing ahead and saying things that be spoilers to future chapters.

For example, I had one that used a few offensive racial words, it went immediately into the trash. I do not like censorship, but I feel that some things are better off not being inflicted upon others.

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Mushroom

saying things that be spoilers

That's the main reason I don't have comments turned on.

StarFleet Carl 🚫

@Mushroom

I only delete those that are not negative, but abusive.

The only time I've requested a delete was when I could tell the comments section was about to go completely away from discussion of the story and things relevant to it, and into the realm of a forum argument / flame war about something that had nothing to do with the story itself.

Michael Loucks 🚫

@Mushroom

I will not deny that some may delete any they do not like, but we are not all like that.

The only thing I've ever deleted are spoilers from people who bought an advance copy of the book. Otherwise, everything stays.

Remus2 🚫

Right, wrong, or indifferent, the current system does provide a baseline.
If the system is changed, that baseline goes out the window.

Scores are subjective. It may be a literary masterpiece to some, but garbage to others. Imo, current scores are reflective of a consensus from many different people. Stories that have a broader appeal will likely have higher scores as opposed to a story more in line with a niche appeal. The reader 'should be' smart enough to figure that out for themselves.

Reluctant_Sir 🚫
Updated:

@richardshagrin

I doubt very seriously the change you suggest would have ANY effect at all on the system or how the reviews are perceived.

If you look at the last two years, the average score in each category is 9. NINE. Almost perfect.

Plot: 9.08

Technical Quality: 8.76

Reviewer Appeal: 9.27

In the first 300 reviews, from 7/2018 until today:

There has been 1 score of 5 in Appeal.

There have been 7 scores of 5 in Technical Quality (And 1 score of 4)

There has been 1 score of 5 in Plot (And 1 score of 2)

On a strange note, there have been 30 stories with one or more BLANK scores. How is that even allowed?

I have to admit, I am shocked by that one score of 4 and that one of 2, I was under the impression that bad reviews simply were not allowed, and I have had, frankly, very little regard for the reviews and the process.

Sure, I like a good review as the next person, but I have to question if the process 1s really a;; that valid when only 11 out of 900 scores (3 per) are at a 5 or less.

It seems like there is something fundamentally wrong with the whole setup.

Replies: bk69

bk69 🚫

@Reluctant_Sir

Sure, I like a good review as the next person, but I have to question if the process 1s really a;; that valid when only 11 out of 900 scores (3 per) are at a 5 or less.

It seems like there is something fundamentally wrong with the whole setup.

Selection bias.

I tried to overcome that a little, in my reviews, by selecting stories to review prior to reading them. Thus, if I didn't like the story, I'd still review it. I'd still review stories I enjoyed enough to recommend them, but I did give, likely, the lowest average scores of any reviewer. (And probably still have that distinction, even after any number of reviews were vanished after the writers either pulled their stories from the site or disallowed reviews in order to get rid of a less than glowing one. Which oddly was more often the case with those who got more average reviews from me than the lower end.)

But if reviewers only review stories they really liked, you need to expect high scores. Fuzzywuzzy probably overdid the whole 10-10-10 thing, but...

Replies: richardshagrin

richardshagrin 🚫
Updated:

@bk69

Fuzzywuzzy probably overdid the whole 10-10-10 thing

The pseudonym reminds me of a bit of doggerel. "Fuzzywuzzy was a bear. Fuzzywuzzy had no hair. Fuzzywuzzy wasn't fuzzy, was he. I agree he has a lot of reviews with 10s. However he can use other numbers, typically for Technical, his notes indicate he likes to proofread. I tend to share that desire. However he has some reviews with lower numbers. I guess with over 600 reviews he has some more freedom. "A Late Night Adventure" fintinman 2008-01-13 1 1 1. I wouldn't recommend other reviewers give that score. Not sure why anyone would finish reading a story like that.

Replies: bk69

bk69 🚫

@richardshagrin

I remember fintinman. That score was probably a bit inflated.

Replies: richardshagrin

richardshagrin 🚫

@bk69

probably a bit inflated.

They don't let us use 0 0 0 or negative numbers. Maybe i, the square root of minus one would work.

Replies: bk69

bk69 🚫

@richardshagrin

I think once I used N/A for technical quality, because the story was less than 5%, hence no rounding up to 1.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@richardshagrin

Why not … round to just one decimal place.

sorting?

richardshagrin 🚫

I was looking at the names that go with the score numbers. The one that goes with e says "some good, some bad." I thought maybe one of them should say "some bad, some worse."

richardshagrin 🚫

as reviews and comments are/can be curated to promote only positives.

It is some effort (not a lot to comment, more to review, and getting authorization to review is apparently not simple) to put my opinion on the Forum. I don't see why I should spend that effort if the story I am about to review is one I don't like. Not every story I like gets reviewed by me. And I review a lot of stories, compared to other reviewers. I don't give a lot of 10s. Those are saved for stories that "blow me away". Eight is an A. Nine is an A+. Tens are very rare. Life is too short to review all the sixes, the C or average story.

Replies: muyoso

muyoso 🚫

@richardshagrin

What is the point of a review? Its to inform people about a story so they can decide if they want to read it. So yes, its very very helpful to review stories you don't like. I can't tell you how many stories I got like 10 chapters in before I realized the author had never held a human conversation in his life and the dialogue was absurd, or how many times i was like 20 chapters in to a story when I realized that the protagonist was hero worshipped by everyone and there was zero conflict in the entire story and that it was just basically a listing of his feats over and over. Would have been awesome to not waste my time had there been a review that explained all that.

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@muyoso

i was like 20 chapters in to a story when I realized that the protagonist was hero worshipped by everyone and there was zero conflict in the entire story and that it was just basically a listing of his feats over and over.

A lot of people like those stories (based on the scores they get). Confuses the hell out of me.

But why does it take you so many chapters to realize the author cannot write dialogue or there's no conflict?

Replies: Dominions Son muyoso

Dominions Son 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Confuses the hell out of me

There's an audience for almost anything you could imagine.

Without the limitations and costs of physical paper books or the traditional publishers acting as gatekeepers there is no reason why even the smallest audience can't be served.

And if certain audiences seem to flock to poor writing, it's probably more from a lack of better writers writing what that audience is looking for. Bad writing being better than no writing at all.

muyoso 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I am sort of a completionist. Once I start something, its in my nature to finish it. It usually has to get pretty bad for me to, usually out loud, question what the hell I am doing still reading a story that is annoying me to no end. Its a character flaw.

ystokes 🚫

About a month or 2 ago their was a writer on SOL that wrote a purely opinion piece that he knew would be challenged so instead of posting it on the forum or on his blog where people could comment on it he posted it as a story and turned off voting and feedback.

I felt that was very cowardly of him.

ystokes 🚫

Where are these comments you are talking about? Feedback, blogs or the forum?

Replies: Dominions Son

Dominions Son 🚫

@ystokes

Where are these comments you are talking about? Feedback, blogs or the forum?

At the end of the last posted chapter of a story.

Note: this is strictly opt-in by the author and has to be explicitly turned on for each story. Most authors haven't bothered turning it on, not out of any dislike of feedback in general, or any specific feedback they've received, but for simply apathy.

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Story Scores

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