Forum: Story Ideas

Many have observed that the SOL environment seems hostile towards eg MM, and that the number of authors prepared to tackle that field has diminished over time.

There may well still be a potential readership for MM stories on SOL, but if an author puts MM content in a story it immediately gets 1-bombed by an intolerant few, disproportionately affecting the story's rating.

AJ

1-bombed by an intolerant few, disproportionately affecting the story's rating.

but doesn't stop many authors from writing in the genre.

I suggest that this is not having as strong an effect on authors as you suggest.

I'm not into MM stories, but I've written stories with MM in the past. Not for eroticism, but maybe for humiliation or something else. None of those are posted on SOL and none will. The readers do affect authors.

I'm not into MM stories, but I've written stories with MM in the past. Not for eroticism, but maybe for humiliation or something else. None of those are posted on SOL and none will. The readers do affect authors.

I wrote my first MM story, which explores how gays treat each other (closeted gays responding badly to 'flamers') but I'll never post it to SOL. The environment is too hostile, and I already have enough regular readers who vote my every story with a 1 because of something I once wrote years ago.

As for DS's point, yes, if readers are fans of SOL and enjoy MM stories, I don't doubt they'd post a story or two, or even that the stories here are well received. The issue is that SOL simply isn't receptive to MM stories, and the stories will get a better reception and more encouragement elsewhere. It isn't just the 1-bombs, it's also the vicious personal attacks via email, and the voting of an entire author's work, based on a single story. It's abuse by voting privilege, and it's typical bully behavior, pure and simple. Why would anyone subject themselves to such actions if they can avoid it by going somewhere friendly where the story will be read by more people.

Besides, six stories with some MM features is a far cry from the FF story ratio, and that's not just because straights like reading about lesbians. Plenty of straight women like reading about gay romances.

What we would need to know is the proportion of new stories this month with MM content compared to the proportion of MM stories for an equivalent month several years back. Or better still, compare a whole year.

AJ

Unless you could interview everyone who voted on the current and past MM stories to elicit the reasons for their scoring, the best you could achieve is a statistical likelihood.

Across the developed world (which might exclude the US Bible Belt), awareness and tolerance of male homosexuality has grown enormously in the past few years. So you'd expect an increase in the proportion of MM stories on a site like this, and a decrease would be highly indicative. But I don't have access to the stats to confirm or refute this.

AJ

How would interviewing authors elicit the reasons for readers giving MM stories abnormally low scores?

AJ

I believe authors want their stories to be read and they want to improve, so despite what they might publicly state, most want to see good and increasing scores for their stories. Interviewing authors who used to write MM stories and no longer post such on SOL would certainly verify whether they were discouraged due to persistently low scores. But it wouldn't do anything to clarify what I see as the problem, why some readers do it.

Like you, I'm not a fan of MM stories and I normally give them a miss unless the story outline indicates enough counterbalancing features. My own, rather gruesome, contribution was actually intended to be a political allegory. I was forewarned what was likely to happen to it so I switched off scoring. In retrospect perhaps I should have left it on - I'm sure the results would have made educational reading.

AJ

It wouldn't but that isn't the issue in contention anyway. The issue in contention is how much of an effect that has on what authors write. You can't get to that without asking authors about why the don't write MM stories.

Such an inquiry would't address all the authors who've abandoned SOL over the years, or those who'd never come here in the first place. What you'd be stuck with is a small subset of the SOL audience who appreciate gay stories, which I'd believe is close to 1%.

@DS

That boggles my mind. Why would teenage girls be interested in MM stories?

There are entire genres of Japanese comics dedicated to 'romantic love' between gay teenagers read by teenage females. My gay friends find several enthusiastic female readers asking for three-way scenes, or even stories about married couples cheating on their spouses with a gay man. It's not as uncommon as you wish!

I don't wish it was uncommon. I just find it incomprehensible. For me, a scene with two bisexual girls getting it on in front of a man is arousing/titillating, a strictly lesbian scene is not that attractive.

People read for a variety of reason. Only one of which is wish fulfillment. Many read to gain experiences they'll never encounter on their own, or to learn about other people. I wrote a non-sex story about a lesbian with several (serial) girlfriends, and a sexual story about a gay teen (over 18) who berates his boyfriend for being a 'fairy queen'. Neither means I've got a fascination with gays, just that I found them to be fascinating characters. (However, I've had more exposure to the gay lifestyle than most others have, so I'm not as 'put off' by the subject either.)

'Is this the site you would go to get those type of stories?'

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I believe SOL was set up with the intention of providing a home for all types of stories, except those legally forbidden. If you wrote an MM story I'd like to see it posted here and, considering the author, I'd almost certainly read it.

AJ

only about 10% of the population are MM or FF inclined.

Straight guys read and like FF stories.

it is estimated that in real life only about 10% of the population are MM or FF inclined

That figure seems to be propaganda distributed by LGBT activists. Rigorous studies suggest the figure for people who are 100% gay is about 1%. However the figure for people who are bisexual or bi-curious is almost certainly a lot higher than 10%. Personally I think it might even be as high as 99%. People who are in single sex surroundings (eg prison, or certain sports) seem very adaptable.

AJ

That figure seems to be propaganda distributed by LGBT activists. Rigorous studies suggest the figure for people who are 100% gay is about 1%. However the figure for people who are bisexual or bi-curious is almost certainly a lot higher than 10%. Personally I think it might even be as high as 99%. People who are in single sex surroundings (eg prison, or certain sports) seem very adaptable.

Not actually true. While many argue about the flat 10% figure, it incorporates both gay and bi (i.e. anyone who participates in homosexual sex). The 10% figure is close enough for most cases, especially because many closeted gays (or those open only to close friends) will deny it on sexual surveys for fear of being outed accidentally.

By the way, among my gay author friends, a fair amount of their readership consists of straight women and married men who appreciate reading about extramarital gay sex (a major issue at many gay sites is that listing a story as "bi" guarantees few will read it).

@Dominons Son

i believe Switch and me make two,

And I have a doozy -- sexual omnivore mind control story set in high school with a hidden mystery that would have led into a mind control homage to Justified.

Now you've piqued my curiosity. You should send Switch and I a copy, so we can see what it's like. We can all ourselves the "We hate gay sex, but appreciate unusual stories" club (WHGSBAUS for short). 'D

That was El Sol not me.

Sorry, that's what happens when you come in late and respond to dozens of responses, all at the same time.

El Sol, if your listening, I'm curious how other 'straight writers' handle gay stories. Call it 'professional curiosity'.

I'm curious how other 'straight writers' handle gay stories. Call it 'professional curiosity'.

One way is to limit the descriptions of the sex, as I did in my short story:

https://storiesonline.net/s/63622/naughty-jo

One way is to limit the descriptions of the sex, as I did in my short story:

I've included gay characters in my other stories, but again, that's because they were interesting characters, that doesn't mean they're 'gay' stories.

I actually like the idea of non-sex stories about gay characters, and have read them (many best sellers) for decades. If done with humor, and an eye for their audience, they can be a delight.

It's actually minimal sex and a sort of gotcha ya, ya bastard type of story as against a revenge type story.

It's actually minimal sex and a sort of gotcha ya, ya bastard type of story as against a revenge type story.

You need to consider your audience in writing such a story. A story with little sex wouldn't appeal (as much) to the gay crowd, while including gay characters at all would eliminate a large number of straight readers. Gay and lesbian readers also avoid stories written by those unfamiliar with the lifestyle. It's one thing tackling unpopular topics, but you still want to attract (rather than repel) readers.

For the two listed stories (of mine) one's based on actual knowledge of the topic (how gay's denigrate effeminate men) and I had to do a massive amount of research for the other (about the lesbian cop).

Short stories are also easier to carry off than longer stories (less change of turning off your readers by giving them too much information).

By the way, my Pro editor positively hated my descriptions of lesbians and lesbian behavior ("No one would ever discuss such topics in public"), but preferred the romantic ending.

You need to consider your audience in writing such a story. A story with little sex wouldn't appeal (as much) to the gay crowd,

CW,

I was writing a story about a certain type of person and situation, lots of graphic sex scenes was not needed to tell the story, but a little sex was, so that's what I wrote.

There may well still be a potential readership for MM stories on SOL, but if an author puts MM content in a story it immediately gets 1-bombed by an intolerant few, disproportionately affecting the story's rating.

The 1 bombs may stop some people, but not all. Most authors write stories in subjects they like or are happy to explore or have experience with and are happy to be associated with, most do not write stories in areas they aren't happy to explore or have experience with or happy to be associated with. Thus, a lot of areas are avoided by many authors.

Some authors avoid MM stories because they find them a pain in the butt to write right due to lack of experience or interest.

Interestingly I have written an MM story, and it's my third lowest scoring story with a No Sex and a Some Sex story with lower scores. The votes range from 6 to 10 with the bulk of them 8s and a score of 6.8. It's a short story at 17 kb and also the one with the lowest number of downloads, but still gets a few reads each week. That also demonstrates that not all MM stories get 1 bombed - but it might now I've mentioned it.

In general, I don't write MM stories because they don't interest me, mind you, the bulk of my stories are No Sex stories anyway because I prefer to write action and adventure stories and the majority that have sex in them the sex is an integral part of either the plot or the character development.

I don't disagree, but associating MM with a pain in the butt may be humorous. Or not. If they do, it might not be due to lack of experience.

If anal sex is painful, then your too inexperienced to know how to do it properly! People of all sexes and persuasions have been having anal sex for thousands of years. Only a few of them walk funny afterwards.

P.S. I'm never been partial to anal stories either.

Unfortunately it has become a self-fulfilling prophecy - readers rate eg mf or MF stories higher, so the site attracts more of them, despite author protestations that they don't care about voters.

Works as designed.

That boggles my mind. Why would teenage girls be interested in MM stories?

I guess the same reason guys like FF stories. And they're teenagers. They're horny.

When I planned to publish my novel traditionally with an erotic romance publisher, I had an explicit MM sex scene. It was done for the horny housewives reading Romantica. When I self-pubbed it, I took the MM sex out (it happened behind closed doors). I had shifted my audience to male readers.