Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

It's important to remember than not everyone is in the US. In fact, a surprisingly large percentage of people here aren't.

Yes, in the US you can publish fictional material involving preteens as long as it is entirely fictional (cartoon, story, etc.) and it doesn't violate local obscenity laws and all people involved have otherwise clean hands. There have been cases of story authors being arrested, but those people also had private servers with illegal material. Carrying erotic stories involving children across state lines was a probation violation, not necessarily illegal in and of itself.

However, SOL is located in Canada. Here in Canada it is illegal to depict children under the age of 18 in any sexual context, even a fictional one. On the other hand, police have made it clear that they have better things to do than arrest people who download a story about a 16-year old having sex. The law is mostly used as a pretext to arrest or get a search warrant to people who have been linked to more serious crimes like abuse, trafficking, and distribution.

Moreover, at the time Lazeez changed SOL's rules, the age of consent in Canada was just changing from 14 to 16 and there are still close-in-age exceptions to as young as 12. So the average person's attitude about teens having sex isn't quite the same here as it might be in places where all TV shows are written by people who think you have to be 18 to have sex.

My point being that Lazeez is walking a very fine line with the site and hoping that the general attitude of teens having sex will protect him if anyone takes offence to the under-18 content. Legally the site could go either way.

tl;dr: SOL is not a US site. Legally having under-18 content is questionable. Changing the under-14 rule is simply not going to happen. You can "discuss" it all you want, but nothing is going to change.

Changing the under-14 rule is simply not going to happen.

There is one set of conditions where I can see the under-14 rule being changed.

That would be if the law and attitudes in Canada changed to the point where Lazeez would be legally required to remove all stories that involve 'children' having sex - making no distinction between someone under 13 who has undergone puberty and a 'child' who has sex hours before they turn 18.

As an addition to what Starfleet Carl said, provinces handle non-criminal bannings in different ways as well. The obvious example of this is Traci Lords.

Traci Lords was one of the biggest porn actresses of the 1980s producing several hundred scenes. At the height of her career she was one of the most desirable actresses in the industry. Unknown to anyone involved she started at the age of 15 using fake ID. Her last film was made two days after her 18th birthday when the whole thing was exposed.

This made all of her (very profitable) films retroactively child porn and led to many video stores having to destroy their copies. These scenes are also now illegal to copy, transmit, sell, buy, display publicly, or otherwise distribute.

However, in some provinces it is still legal to own and watch these scenes, IF the person in question owns an original copy. Since we're talking about VHS which has a limited shelf life at the best of times, these copies are very rare if any still exist.

I have always thought that Lazeez was exposing himself to more liability by setting the age at 14 rather than just ignoring the law altogether. He's expressed that he decided on 14 with the thought that prosecutors wouldn't bother with charging a crime for stories with characters that age. I could easily see some overzealous prosecutor taking that as a challenge.

You are very far from reality.

Words dont do harm... if you dont like something write more words or dont look.

I am also pretty much a free speech absolutist and don't want anything banned. But ....

Jimmy Walker, the playboy Mayor of New York, in the 1920s argued "I never yet heard of a girl being ruined by a book," when fighting a censorship law.
The problem with that argument is that it is not true. People are changed by what they read, whether it is the Bible, the Sayings of Chairman Mao, Mein Kamph or anything else. The written word has power to change beliefs and attitudes. It's no different with porn: it can, and demonstrably does, change attitudes and actions.

Me, heck it's all just fiction, words. Age of consent worries, again these are fictional settings just words, no human or animals harmed.

As to the original question. Life does not begin at 14. Out of respect of the webmaster I work to avoid the issue but also people have babies and siblings who are just passing through, nothing sexual on the pages.

A story about younger teens sure I would read it, was it good writing a fun story. I think we all would. Glad I don't live in Australia.

Look to the classics it is full or young people in sexual situations...

You have said much better what is quite similar to my opinion.

Similar to many youths throughout the ages, I had to mature quite quickly, really before I was ten years old. So that by the time I was 13 or 14 I was acting as a near equal partner with older adults in my family. I started school "early" turning 5 before Christmas Break of 1st Grade, and then skipping 2nd Grade. I was "emancipated" at age 15, although living with a Great Aunt. I dated girls a couple of years older than me, although they were in my grade (or a year either side of my grade). I was neither popular, nor on any of the "prestige" sports teams. Most of the girls I dated were White, but Not among the "popular" cliques; girls from drama, debate, chess team, choir, or "dweebs/nerds" since I read a lot of books and met some girls that way.

I joined the Army at 17, and was in my early to mid-20's when I went to college; due to being recalled to Active Duty during Desert Shield / Desert Storm, I spent extra years in college because I had to drop my Fall 1990 classes. I also had to re-take some classes when I returned to the university, because I changed majors, and there were some new "required" courses. So, I was considerably older than many of my classmates.

Again, I tended to hang out with an odd mix of Veterans (also some "First Responders" {LEO, Paramedics, firefighters, etc.}, "odd sports such as Rugby, Football (Soccer), Hockey, Lacrosse, etc. as well as the Geeks, Sci-Fi, D&D, Drama, and of course fellow voracious readers.

Many of us were older than average, however, there were also some younger than average students. Most of us had no interest in the Fraternity/Sorority scene, nor the typical shenanigans and binge drinking in too many dorms. Mostly girls, but a few boys 15 to 17, hung out with us and were if not as mature as the Vets/First Responders, they were more mature than the typical college Freshman or Sophomore.

I mention this because there are several other posts, of completely valid points of view. They state that "typical" 14 to 18 year-olds lack maturity, and "they" couldn't participate in a "stimulating" or even "engaging" conversation with an older person. Since I have had minimal contact with "typical" people, I grant their point of view generally applies. However, there are significant numbers of people who are not typical. (Fortunately,, my cousins and their families provide me a grounding in the more typical. I am the "Wierd Uncle" who shows up at holidays and family gatherings with little trinkets from exotic lands and stories about distant lands and historic places.)

My short-lived career in Law Enforcement, and more so my experiences in private security (often armed), often wearing a suit or some other garb brought me in to contact with a number of celebrities, people with more money than sense, as well as "Escorts" Strippers, and other "Ladies of the Night"

{One of whom was a fellow Crim-J student. We had been at an off-campus meeting for a group project; somehow the subject of stripping to pay for college came up. The "typical" female undergrads denigrated any woman or teen girl for stripping; equating it with prostitution. Of course, the boys "concurred" with their female classmates (although I knew several of them, like me, had been to strip clubs themselves). After our meeting the other students drifted off She (a few years older) and I remained; we were the Serious Caffeine Achievers, and lingered over our third or so cup of coffee (our classmates male and female, mostly had caramel-soy-macchiato-skinny-frapes) After the "kids" had departed, she confided that She was a Stripper, paying for her nice condo, a two-year old car, and her university education, and a nice wardrobe to boot! Why she told me, I am not certain. I suspect she was just venting. Similar to me, she didn't stay long as an LEO. She got her JD, and passed the Bar, but I believe focused on non-typical legal matters. She published a book based upon a bit of her experiences, and that of other women who worked as strippers & "escorts" that was based upon her dissertation.}

My experiences with and listening to women and teens who have been involved in stripping, escorting, prostitution, and several other activities have provided some inspiration of some of my Fictional stories. A significant percentage of women who become involved in commercial pornography and/or prostitution (or "Escorting") often become sexually active around age 13 to 15. So, a "hard-limit of age 14 is not detrimental to my stories.

Personally, I am not (sexually) interested in girls younger than teens; so, again 14 is not a "burdensome" limit for me.

I think that there are some interesting stories that may be told involving teenage (14+) characters on SOL. I have been told some very interesting stories, and while I am NOT using any stories of any person I know; I am depicting teens in situations inspired by a variety of sources. I hope that I manage to Write fictional stories that are bot Interesting and arousing, or at least titillating.

Was the book "Chickenhawk"?

I don't recall the title, but I read a fictional story about a cabin boy with Commodore Perry's expedition to Japan in the 1850's. The youth got left behind and had to adapt to Japanese culture until the return of Commodore Perry.

I don't known the one you read, but you might be interested in The Bamboo Sword (2015) by Margi Preus. It's a middle grade books following a similar path, but in this case the protagonist is a Japanese boy who discovers the stranded cabin boy and tries to get him back to his ship without drawing the attention of the Shogun, which would ruin his own dreams of becoming a samurai.

I think any author wanting to write, and any reader wanting to read, a story with characters of such age; in this post Epstein era, should do some serious self-reflection and perhaps read some victim statements before proceeding.

I do so agree with you. In fact, I wonder if any of our capable authors would consider writing a story from a victims point of view. And I do mean really from a victims PoV. Not the point of view "rescuing" macho male character. There are many of those.

I realise that the misogynist majority on SoL will probably immediately score such a tale down. But if there is a good story there some of us will appreciate it.

It just occurred to me that the story of "Taxi Driver" probably could not be published here. Which would be a loss for us all.

There was a story somewhat like that "Trailer Trash" or maybe it was "Trailer Park Girl" or something like that. I was reading it, but it was removed from the SOL to be published and sold elsewhere.

It was a "Do Over" but a modest one. A women well-past middle age who had had a miserable life. She wakes up one morning and is 13 and morbidly obese again. What made it interesting was that she became aware that by her failing to act resulted in most of her problems. It was an interesting story, but it was not always pleasant to read.

How this story was written would be a good candidate `the type of story you are suggesting.

You would probably not like my story: "Sixth Generation Cowboy and a Third Generation Whore"

The MC is a man. However, there are aspects to it that might have some of what you want. The story has action, adventure, sex, mystery, prostitution, and other things.

The ultimate intent is to depict a number of Marines and soldiers (some female) who are (failing to) deal with PTSD and other wounds from Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere in the GWOT. Some substance abuse, more "Thrill Seeking" Hedonism, and Bad Choices. Eventually, it is a story of redemption, for some, and death or other serious consequences for others.

At least in what I have written so far, and my outline for the rest, I am trying to "Show not tell." Most readers are likely to think, "If this is a 'Good' situation as stated by some of both male and female characters; what the heck kind of Bad Situation were they in for This to seem good!"

There are two situations in which the group of characters discover young teen girls who are the victims of Human Trafficking" It is a "Come to Jesus" moment for some of the characters. All of them come to realize "It's NOT fun anymore." realizing that some criminals see huma beings as commodities like marijuana, meth, or Fentanyl...

To paraphrase Sir Winston Churchill, "It is not the beginning of the end, however, it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning..."

Why I mention this is because my MC and several of the secondary characters would Identify as "Macho Rescuing Males" it is more so that several of the female characters are the ones who Actually have the Plans to get out of their collective messes. The cynical may feel they are "manipulating" but most of them are more trying to "guide"

Definitely none of these characters is going to solve their problems by themselves. Not all of the characters have happy endings.

It is an original story, however, among the numerous inspirations are the movies: "The Best Years of Our Lives" "Three Kings" "The Outpost" and "Heat"

The age is arbitrary at best. It could have been 13 or 15.

It's not entirely arbitrary. While obviously I don't know Lazeez's process, age of consent in Canada was 14 until 2008, when it was changed to 16. There were some technicalities to the law, though, such as the AoC only applied to "non-exploitive sex," ie, a 14-year old could date an adult, but an adult couldn't lie, manipulate, or otherwise trick a teen into sex.

Given that SOL's rules also changed in 2008, I suspect that the age of consent laws had something to do with the choice of age.

age of consent in Canada was 14 until 2008, when it was changed to 16.

It is in fact arbitrary. If it was based on some science or other fact, why would it change like that?
Being arbitrary has no bearing on the change made by Laz. He had no choice but to make the change based on current law where the server resides.

Laz is, of course, the sole and decisive arbiter in the end.

I recommend not calling him Laz. If you pronounce the LA as you might say the initials for Los Angeles (el a) you probably get Lazy. I wouldn't want to be called Laz(y).

It's not a big issue right now. I'm trying to get to the end of my first draft of my debut story. I'm waiting to hear back from a couple of people about timing their interactions.

I'm also heavily debating how to handle the handing off of scenes in the last couple of months of the story where the action gets much more dense compared to the first 30 odd weeks or so.

this may blow out the word count significantly but it may also improve the depiction of time passing. a point I will aim to bolt down in the next draft cycle. this one I just need to get all the key events on page as it were.

If anyone can suggest an iterative plan that they have used for drafting a story over a handful of versions. allowing it to grow organically as part of the process I'd be interested.

Till next time and I've gone over that particular story. this has been an interesting discussion of the spirit of the '14' rule.

"This is not a 13yo you are fucking. No, it's a 500 year old witch cursed by another witch to always look pre-pubescent."

Could be even worse if the curse included restoration of the hymen during sleep, causing painful deflowering every day.

HM.

Dunno if you've ever seen Japanese porn, real or animated, but whimpering like a dying puppy or a roughly deflowered virgin is the default.

I've also heard it described as 'sounds like someone repeatedly throwing a hamster against the wall'.

Japanese culture. Why they pass down that sort of thing I've no idea. But they sound like a chew toy tossed in a kennel.

I think that's what I'd do with my partner if that's the kind of noises they were making. They sound worse than the squeaker in a dog's chew toy.

Have you not noticed that every nation has its own porn noise. Personally, I find the Californian fake orgasm squeak just as annoying as the Japanese whimper. Give me a good German Ja-JA-JAAA-JAAAAAAAHHHHH any day.

I'm assuming an overactive imagination or someone prone to hyperbole. I dunno anybody AT ALL that might apply to, especially on this site. ^_^

Could be even worse if the curse included restoration of the hymen during sleep, causing painful deflowering every day.

This joke was used in the TV show True Blood (2008–2014) Deborah Ann Woll played the character Jessica Hamby who was turned into a vampire and since vampires had the ability to restore their health and she was virgin at the time of transformation her hymen was forever being restored.

I had to ask Lazeez, because in my 'Legacy of a Legend', there's a vampire named 'Babette' who was bitten when she was 10 years old.

Babette was a member of the assassin's guild. Some of the dialog in the game was definitely adult oriented.
There are several games that are like that. Tiny Tina in Borderlands is another example. How those characters get under the legal wire is a point of curiosity to me.

I had to ask Lazeez, because in my 'Legacy of a Legend', there's a vampire named 'Babette' who was bitten when she was 10 years old. I could SAY that she did something, but I could not make ANY descriptions of her doing that, especially of her body.

One of my stories has an opposite to that (which I cleared with Lazeez before posting) An anthropomorphic character, that appears to be 18-20 by human standards, but is much younger because the character was born as an animal and transformed after reaching sexual maturity for the animal species.

What confuses me about the application of the rule is that you can describe a character as obviously prepubesent, but, as long as you don't mention the age, it passes.

Another thing is that a reoccurring character in stories by the same author can magically jump from age 12 or 13 to 14 to have sex and later become 12 or 13 again.

What confuses me about the application of the rule is that you can describe a character as obviously prepubesent, but, as long as you don't mention the age, it passes.

That is still likely a violation and If I came across a story that did that, I'd report it.

What you have to understand is that Lazeez doesn't have the resources to verify every submission for rules violations. He is dependent on readers reporting violations.

If you come across something you think is an edge case, report it so Lazeez can give it a full evaluation.

The two things I wrote about were reported and passed.

The two things I wrote about were reported and passed.

Odd, Lazeez has said in the past that he would consider looks prepubescent but stated to be ancient a violation if involved in sexual activity. I'm surprised he would pass on simply not stating an age unless there was some other factor in play.

Were they possible older stories?

No. Kelly85 stories posted in the last year

This is what I mean:
"It wasn't long before my mom was in with us. Wow! My mom was so pretty when she was naked! I rarely saw my mom totally nude other than maybe in the shower or when she was dressing. She always wore at least a bra and panties around the house, usually with a robe to boot. I noticed that her pubic hair was lush and bushy, jet black and curly unlike the straight brunette hair on her head she was always fussing about. It made me think about my own hairless version and I wondered when mine would be like hers. What would it be like to have all that hair down there? As she slowly descended below the water line, adjusting gradually to the hot water temperature, her large boobs were supported by the water and my thoughts turned from my hairless pussy to my flat chest, trying to imagine what it would be like to have such things sticking out from me. My hands subconsciously went to my chest as I imagined it growing. It was actually a little scary!"

In the original version of this story she mentions that she was 8 (?). I reported that and it was reposted with only the age removed. I assume it was reviewed an passed as OK. This sure looks like a description of a pre-pubescent girl to me.
There are several examples of the same thing in other stories by her(?) I reported.

In the original version of this story she mentions that she was 8 (?). I reported that and it was reposted with only the age removed. I assume it was reviewed an passed as OK.

If the original was taken down as a violation and the author reposted it, I wouldn't assume that the repost was reviewed in detail by the moderators.

Maybe I shouldn't assume that, but I would think that if the site removes a story for violation of the rules, and the story is reposted, Lazeez would review it to see if the violations had been corrected.

Maybe I shouldn't assume that,

Correct. You shouldn't. For various reasons, one of which is that Lazeez isn't the only one who vets new submissions.

But shouldn't authors who repeatedly post in violation of the rules get extra scrutiny?

But shouldn't authors who repeatedly post in violation of the rules get extra scrutiny?

Should and do are two different things.

AFIK, the other moderators besides Lazeez are volunteers. They, and Lazeez are finite resources. Even limited to authors who are flagged as problematic (assuming for the sake of argument that the system tracks that) they likely don't have the time to thoroughly vet every post.

But shouldn't authors who repeatedly post in violation of the rules get extra scrutiny?

Certainly they should.

BUT

SoL isn't Utopia. Perhaps there exists a person who reads every single new story or chapter as soon as they are posted, and does so day after day, but probably not.

However, Lazeez welcomes reports of 'unacceptable' stories and will act as necessary as well as responding to the reporter.

Yes, it is a Violation of SOL Rules if the Character is explicitly under 14.

Without the age specified, it could well be older than fourteen-years of age. If that is the extend of "sexual" content with a ("teen") girl of unspecified age, it shouldn't cause any legal problems in the USA or Canada.

Since this is from the Character's perspective, they might perceive their "fine" (as in thin) or "sparse" pubic hair, and "B-Cup" tits and being (comparatively) "Flat and Hairless" compared to a mature woman in her 30's or older.

Because you know the age specified in the earlier version, you are "reading it in" to the current version.

A naked girl of indeterminate age in the bath wishing she were more developed is not a violation of USA or Canadian Law. More explicit descriptions are permitted in Published "YA" fiction ("young adult" written for Teens & "Tweens").

On the other hand a "Tiajuana Donkey Show" with a "little girl" barely four-foot tall, who is "tit-less and hairless pubes" would be much more problematic, and probably should be removed by moderators and who ever posted Warned and put on probation (at minimum).

In the traditional fairy tale Little Red Riding Hood the MC is a "tween" or even younger. There are plenty of pornographic versions with a "clearly" Age 18 or older "C-cup" (and usually larger) "actress" performing... Well, possibly something vaguely related to the original story, if only the Hooded cape, and perhaps a basket... after all being "eaten" by the Big Bad Wolf in the porn versions is usually just using the tongue to bring pleasure... (I am Not into any form of "Snuff"!)

So, although we "know" Little Red Riding Hood is under 14 in the original story; this is not the case in any of the Legal porn versions. I haven't searched for them, but I am pretty sure that there are explicit pornographic variations of "classic fairy tales" here on SOL. As far as I know, the characters who engage in sex are all older then 14 (at least) and some either implied, or explicitly 18 or older.

I am not "turned on" by explicit, or even implied girls who are younger than teens. I am turned-off by images of Teens or even adult women over 21 wearing "baby clothes, or "little girl" clothes, even when it is "adult diaper" (such as a porn version of Baby Huey).

It seems that You are more sensitive to such depictions (as in your post) than I am. That is why SOL has a Reporting System. If I saw something that explicitly violates the Rules, I would Report It!

I am glad there is a Legal site that includes stories with sexually active characters between 14 and 18. I don't want to endanger what is currently allowed by "tolerating" porn that is violation of applicable Laws, and the Rules of SOL. If you are "pestering" Laz by "over-reporting" I am sure he would PM you. We are ALL part of the Reporting System. So, thank you DBActive for being ...Active.

8-P

free speech

If you don't have to pay to listen to it, it is a free speech.

https://nypost.com/2018/11/08/why-this-mom-is-still-breastfeeding-her-9-year-old-kid/

I have a niece who claims to be 5' but clearly is at least 2 or 3 inches shorter than that. She goes nowhere except in very tall heels.

5-10 years ago, I forget exactly how long ago, my state (Wisconsin) updated it's child car seat regulations. The new standard is based primarily on weight, though they did throw in an age cutoff.

If the new standard had been in place without the age cutoff when my mom was young she would have been old enough to get a driver's license before she was big enough to get out of the child safety seat.