Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

To me, the work really suffers when it's chopped up like that.

Just a suggestion. If an author posting chapters at intervals impacts your enjoyment of reading the story, bookmark the story (note its title and author if not a Premier member), and then wait until the story is completely posted to start reading it.

As to your question, I typically post my stories one chapter a week on Tuesdays. I enjoy chatting with my readers who provide feedback, so my interchanges with them are spread out over a longer period of time and are more numerous.

Long stories also have to be broken into smaller sections due to the limitations placed on the file upload size. Granted all of those chapters could be posted on the same day, but it would also place a larger workload on Lazeez people who process those files.

I don't think you make any money out of it, so would writers really let the quality of their work suffer just to reach out to a broader audience?

First, the quality of the work doesn't suffer by releasing a finished story a chapter at a time. If it bothers you as a reader, simply wait until all the chapters are posted.

Why are downloads or a broader audience important to an author if they're not making money? If all we cared about was writing the story, we wouldn't post it. We post it to get others to read it. So if posting a chapter at a time gets more readers of the story, that's what we want.

Does uploading a chapter at a time actually get more readers?

I believe so. When you post a complete story, it shows up on the new stories page — once.

When you post by chapters, it shows up on the new stories page (once) and then on the update page each time you post a new chapter. So there's more opportunity for someone to see your story.

Does uploading a chapter at a time actually get more readers?

The story appears on the front page for longer, so it should be seen and read by more people.

Why are downloads or a broader audience important to an author if they're not making money? If all we cared about was writing the story, we wouldn't post it. We post it to get others to read it. So if posting a chapter at a time gets more readers of the story, that's what we want.

Despite not being 'paid' for downloads on SOL, it helps for recognition. As Ernest (or Keet?) suggested, posting a 40 chapter story in one go means most people will miss it, as it'll disappear from the 'recent updates' page within a single day.

But spacing the downloads out, it boosts the overall score of the story, and allows you to schedule the occasional cliff-hangers (personally, I like to post them on Thursday/Friday, so readers have to wait for Monday. That's undoubtedly frustrating in many cases, but at least for my readers, they seem to enjoy the suspense and speculate on how the story will turn out.

Finally, by sticking to an established posting schedule (for me, generally Tuesdays and Thursdays), my readers know when to check in, rather than waiting to 'catch it' whenever it might post. While the stories generally post anywhere from 8:30 to 10 pm, they know they can always pick it up once SOL shuts down or the next morning (depending on where they are geographically).

If you don't know a story, or aren't that excited, you're unlikely to be so insistent on catching the latest chapter in real time, but for favor authors/stories, especially for longer chapters, many like looking forward to sinking their teeth into yet-another detailed and involving chapter or two.

Ernest famously does file dumps, rather than posting chapters, as he combines chapters into odd-combinations based somewhat on total word count, and posts one every other day. That gets his scores up, but it seems (to me at least) as a quick way to get a story out of the way. I prefer keeping stories active, and use my nest story to determine my posting schedule.

Often, between books, it can be months or even a year or more, so Ernest's 'let's get this over with' leads who readers asking 'WTH is this? Didn't he die years ago, and why is he bugging us now?'

Typically, you've got to manage stories to keep your readers interested. If the stories post too quickly, of they don't know when to tune in, they're more likely to forget you, only remembering 3 or 5 years later when someone asks 'whatever happened to ... ?' So posting the story is the best way to keep them from forgetting while you're struggling with you latest book.

I personally have problems when reading too many stories concurrently, so I avoid stories with one or less chapter per week. I would read those stories when finished posting,

but may miss the announcement of the last chapter. If this happens, I would quite certainly not register that the story no longer shows up on the main paige and will miss it entirely.

I think this is a premium feature, but if I see an interesting story that is being uploaded over weeks or months, I will open the first chapter and bookmark it and add the author to my library. His subsequent chapter additions (and future new offerings) show up on my favorites page and the story stays in my reading queue.

What does 25 kb mean in terms of words?

I'm not exactly sure about how they relate. I try to break the stories into chunks of between 5,000 to 10,000 words at chapter or sub-chapter breaks, so they may go up or down a bit as per where the break is in the finished story. When I looked at the story stats page I noticed the smallest chapter file was 25 kb, so I mentioned ti, most are around the 45 kb to 50 kb mark. In back tracking that 25 kb chapter post it came out as 4,900 words by noting the start and finish of that post and then checking it on the master file and doing a word count there. The SoL file will also include the html code, while the master file word count doesn't, which is why I did it that way. A check on a similar sized file of 26 kb came out as 5,200 words.

What does 25 kb mean in terms of words?

I converted one of my Word chapters to a plain text file. 4,071 words resulted in a file that was 22.1 kb.

ETA: I also checked a story posted to SOL. SOL indicated it was 51 kb and my Word program said it contained 8,939 words.

I converted one of my Word chapters to a plain text file. 4,071 words resulted in a file that was 22.1 kb.

ETA: I also checked a story posted to SOL. SOL indicated it was 51 kb and my Word program said it contained 8,939 words.

A lot depends on the 'hidden' extras. Smart/curly quotes and other publishing marks chew up a lot of space, especially if they're common (like every couple of lines).

Graphics and 16-bit font characters (Chinese or Japanese) take up much more space too. And then there's all the hidden-hidden features, most notably 'commented out' text (story descriptions, alternative chapters, etc.) or more often, the crap that Word Processors like MS WORD dumps into files (to preserve formatting if the html file is reopened in Word, but is otherwise useless extra space).

In short, you can get a general idea of how many words/kb you might get, but no guarantee you'll even get a minimum.

If someone uploads a novel-length or multiple-novel-length story in one go, it doesn't matter how good it is, I'm not going to read it.

I guess you could say I 'cheat' in this respect. On completed stories, I download them to my iPad and read them using the Kindle app as I can. For stories in progress, I'll read them using my iPhone - but I open more than one tab, so I may be reading 2 or 3 different stories at the same time.

If someone uploads a novel-length or multiple-novel-length story in one go, it doesn't matter how good it is, I'm not going to read it.

Why is that different than reading a novel you buy?

Why is that different than reading a novel you buy?

Borrow, rather than buy - I can't remember the last time I bought a novel.

I find the process of reading large amounts on a computer screen to be tiring on the eyes, but that's not true of dead-tree novels. I can quite happily take a dead-tree novel to a comfy chair or to bed and read half, say, in one go. But I can't do that with a computer monitor.

AJ

I find the process of reading large amounts on a computer screen to be tiring on the eyes,

Recently one of my readers asked me if I could provide inverse colour html copies of my stories for them. With my CSS it was but a moment to do so. I find I can read text for hours on the wide screen monitor, but I can't on the tablet I take to read when soaking my back in the bath. I tried the inverse colour on the tablet and found it much easier to read on the tablet than the normal color scheme. You may want to try something like that.

The scheme I use I worked out with my son who uses inverse color, so I now have Aliceblue text on a Black background for the tablet.

That's why they make red wagons and green wagons.

You mean those two shades of brown wagons?

I have at least some color blindness - enough that when I was trying to enlist in the Navy, they wouldn't let me into their nuclear operator program because I couldn't pass their color vision test. Note that I was already IN the Army National Guard, which meant the Army didn't care that I couldn't see.

Traffic lights in the US are stacked vertically (for the most part) with three colors - brown on top, yellow in the middle, and white on the bottom. At least that's how I see them.

As for the actual topic of discussion, my first novel on here I started writing, had more than a dozen chapters done, then started posting a chapter a week, figuring it wouldn't be difficult to maintain my lead and buffer.

Silly me.

So now I'm waiting until I have something done or nearly done, which means I'm not going to be posting anything for several more months, at the earliest. THEN I'll post a chapter or two every week. Easier that way.

Traffic lights in the US are stacked vertically

What about left turn arrows? I can't remember, but I think it changes color rather than have multiple arrows.

What about left turn arrows? I can't remember, but I think it changes color rather than have multiple arrows.

I've got an on-line friend who lives in the USA, and they never make a left turn across on-coming traffic because they see so many accidents with red light runners hitting the turners. When they have an intersection where they have to turn left they avoid it by going past, turn right, right again, right again then pass through the intersection going straight ahead on the cross street. It must work well, as they've not been hit making a left turn, or a right turn, but they have been in t-bone accidents with people running red lights or turning left in front of them when it wasn't safe to do so.

because they see so many accidents with red light runners hitting the turners.

In my state, the driver turning left is wrong even if the other guy ran a red light. The law says you have to make sure it's clear before you turn.

Not all cities build their roads on grids. In some places I can make 4 right turns and not end up in the same place I started from.

Not all cities build their roads on grids. In some places I can make 4 right turns and not end up in the same place I started from.

Manhattan is mostly grid based, but has multiple angled streets and avenues. Then there are the many circular cities with straight N/S, E/W roads crisscrossing over it.

At intersections where you are allowed to turn left if on-coming traffic is clear

We have a blinking amber light for that.

We have a blinking amber light for that.

In England, that could be interpreted as a steady amber light that you really, really loathe, or an amber light that flashes on and off.

AJ

I've tried that. Hated it. That's why they make red wagons and green wagons.

The early dark modes for tablets, phones and computers weren't terribly good (too harsh and difficult to look at, or conversely, too dark to read.

The more recent versions, though, are much better, as the colors are more subtle, and the displays are adjustable. But the biggest benefit is the supposed sleep benefits from the absence of 'white' light. Whether that's true often depends on the individual.

More reasons to read from a dead-tree rather than a tech device at bedtime:

https://www.sleep.org/articles/ways-technology-affects-sleep/

I've seen other reasons mooted, but I was too lazy to track down articles.

AJ

I find the process of reading large amounts on a computer screen to be tiring on the eyes, but that's not true of dead-tree novels.

I only offer my novels as ebooks because it's a lot harder to format a paper book and didn't think it was worth it since the statistics say the majority of readers read ebooks.

I don't. I read paper books.
A survey on wattpad showed that teenagers read paper books.
And now you.

I may have to rethink my ebook-only strategy.

A survey on wattpad showed that teenagers read paper books.

An article in my paper said the same thing. I have to admit I find that hard to understand since so many e-books are free, and so many UK school and public libraries are being closed.

AJ

I have to admit I find that hard to understand since so many e-books are free

I found it hard to understand because the same teenagers live on their smart phones. They access wattpad on their phones. They even write their stories on their phones. They read stories on wattpad on their phones. But when they buy/borrow a book to read, they want to hold a paper book. They say they get those from a book store or library.

I only offer my novels as ebooks because it's a lot harder to format a paper book and didn't think it was worth it since the statistics say the majority of readers read ebooks.

Readers routinely report preferring paper (usually paperbacks of mass paperbacks (3"x5")), but readers are highly price sensitive. SO if the ebook is as little as a dollar cheaper (I've never measured and sub dollar differences), they'll almost uniformly go for the ebook.

Of course the traditional booksellers routinely report that readers always prefer paperbacks, but they stack the deck by charging at least $5 more for an ebook (which cost them nothing to duplicate and distribute), while also tacking on additional discounts on their print books. If you save NOTHING by going with ebooks, then most will prefer paper. However, there are readers (mostly younger) who love carrying 50 to 300 complete books so they always have their next book handy.

Generally, it takes time to adapt to reading from a device. Those not used to it can't stand them, while those who've trained themselves tend to favor the electronic devices.

@Switch Blayde

A survey on wattpad showed that teenagers read paper books.

There's an obvious caveat to that. They prefer paper books, as long as their parents pay for them. When it comes time for them to buy their own, suddenly an extra quarter is too much to bother with paper over

One advantage to e-books,

They're lighter to carry, even when you add in the tablet to read them with, and you can have several in the same pocket at once.

That doesn't resolve my problem, and it won't until e-readers are as large as a printed book, bendy, and don't break when dropped.

AJ

and don't break when dropped.

Like when you fall asleep reading. Done that with paper books.

and don't break when dropped.

Like when you fall asleep reading. Done that with paper books.

You're right. I hate when I fall asleep in bed and my 27" color computer screen slips off my lap and crashes onto the floor, pulling my expensive desktop computer behind it! 'D

If someone uploads a novel-length or multiple-novel-length story in one go, it doesn't matter how good it is, I'm not going to read it.

That's common, and why I've noted that readers often look forward to certain stories posting (they wait to view the chapters as they appear).

They typically like long, detailed extended stories, but they like single chapters that'll last for a half-an-hour to a full hour to read, thus allowing them to sit back and enjoy at the end of the day.

When faced with a 50+ story, they cringe over the sheer time demand, but if they can read a chapter at a time, as it posts, they not only catch it as it's posting, but they can also converse with the author/other readers about the latest chapter.

Right now, I'm posting a story, Karen, with only one, very short, chapter a week. One reason for that is that the chapters are all-dialogue, and the next chapter might be Karen talking to an entirely different person. (Another reason is that SOL doesn't appreciate short-short stories; the audience doesn't really appreciate short-short chapters, but that counts as only one story rated low.)

That's a time when Ernest's 'repackaging book chapters into SOL chapters' might work. If you combined related dialogue-based chapters, you'd then have longer logically linked chapters of multiple dialogues by different people.

Or not!

That's a time when Ernest's 'repackaging book chapters into SOL chapters' might work

What CW is trying to describe here is the difference between how I write a story and how I post it to Sol.

In general I write using activity breaks of chapter titles, sub-chapter titles, and section titles basing which they are on the content of them. I list the chapters and sub-chapters in the Table of Contents (ToC) I upload with the chapters in red and the sub-chapters in blue and their titles are colored that way as well. Not all chapters have sub-chapters and not everything has a section headings. I use section headings where I think there's a significant scene change but it's still part of the chapter or sub-chapter.

Anyway, I usually write a story that's between 40,000 to 140,000 words with most being in the 50,000 to 70,000 word range. Over the years I found that 5,000 to 10,000 words was a good read for a single sitting, so when I post to SoL I aim to post the story in lumps of around 8,000 words. I also aim to have the breaks at the end of a chapter if I can, and a sub-chapter if I can't.

So once i complete the story I start measuring how many words are in each chapter and sub-chapter and then introduce a break at the appropriate point. Now this is not as hard as it sounds. I write in a pre-set print book format of a 6 x 9 inch book, and I've found that 20 pages of story is about the right target, so I start at the start of the first chapter and use the software word count option to see how many words are in the area I highlight from there to the end of chapter or sub-chapter closest to 20 pages further along. If the next is the start of a chapter and the word count is over 5,000 words and below 10,000 words I make that a Sol Chapter, if the next is the last sub-chapter of that chapter I check to see if I can extend the cut to include it without going over the 10,000 word mark. Then I repeat for the next section to post and so on until I have it all divided as such.

One of the reasons this works is I don't usually use the word Chapter in my titles (yes there are exceptions), so all I need to do is insert the word Chapter with a chapter number at the break point and the SoL wizard knows where to break the story. However, with the initial posting I also break the story up into a file for each chapter to make the process of using advance dates in the Wizard easier.

Thus I get a SoL chapter for posting while the story has content event chapters within it.

we now live in an age when instant gratification is demanded in everything from food to love

I see this all the time in my line of work.

Customer: "I want this specific item."
Me: "Great, let me take your order and I'll have it for you in eight to twelve weeks."
Customer: "What do you mean? I want it now."
Me: "Unfortunately, so does everyone else. This is the hottest selling item in the industry, and the supply is what it is, the factory is running flat out and simply can't make any more. As long as demand is high for them, we're simply taking orders and filling them as supply becomes available."
Customer: "But I want it ..."

I thought Lazeez has mentioned once that he fixed that by making 'smart breaks' as far as possible.

He did, but the other day the script failed to run and messed up the post so he had to redo it.