Home » Forum » Story Discussion and Feedback

Forum: Story Discussion and Feedback

Topics of the last few months…

NC-Retired 🚫
Updated:

Here in the forum the focus has been AI. Plus and minus.

Everyone's opinion is different. None are bad, none are better, all just different. Why? Lack of solid, real world data.

Your reports of your personal experiences are good and I appreciate you reporting the results.

But… I'm waiting for the broad economic results that will affect millions. Another of those 'we'll see' deals.

My opinion is 60/40 not good for millions of people. We'll know better in the next 12-18 months.

Again, thank you everyone for you taking the time to type your responses in the various threads.

Vincent Berg 🚫

@NC-Retired

Not really, some just appreciate using it, while others—like me—are simply old-school, not needing helping hand to write. Well, I do, but I prefer a helping hand with some knowledge of what they're doing.

Generally, from what I've seen, those relying on LLM AI were simply not adept at writing fiction, as those AIs gave them a way in, yet because they're relying on AI, they really aren't learning how to write. Several are doing quite well with it, yet the majority are dependent on the AI, not learning anything.

But I'm guessing that at least 60% simply like using AI too much to try anything else. After all, you can write stories incredibly fast if you don't have to sweat the details, that's pretty cushy work.

Now, let the online firebombing begin, I'll just check out for a while so I'm not busy responding to attacks.

Michael Loucks 🚫

@Vincent Berg

Not really, some just appreciate using it, while others—like me—are simply old-school, not needing helping hand to write. Well, I do, but I prefer a helping hand with some knowledge of what they're doing.

It all depends on HOW you're using AI. As a research assistant and an analysis tool (e.g., building a story bible and looking for plot holes, continuity errors, and anachronisms), it's great, if you learn how to use it effectively.

It's a tool in my toolbox, like my text editor and publication tools. The publication tool had a learning curve, just as AI does. Just as MS Word (which you use) does.

The fact that others use different tools doesn't make them any less a craftsman than you claim to be.

My prose is 100% mine, but using AI as noted above does work that no human could reasonably do unless I paid them more than I earn from my writing (which is more than enough to support myself).

Replies:   Marc Nobbs  Vincent Berg
Marc Nobbs 🚫

@Michael Loucks

It all depends on HOW you're using AI. As a research assistant and an analysis tool (e.g., building a story bible and looking for plot holes, continuity errors, and anachronisms), it's great, if you learn how to use it effectively.

It's a tool in my toolbox, like my text editor and publication tools. The publication tool had a learning curve, just as AI does. Just as MS Word (which you use) does.

The fact that others use different tools doesn't make them any less a craftsman than you claim to be.

My prose is 100% mine, but using AI as noted above does work that no human could reasonably do unless I paid them more than I earn from my writing (which is more than enough to support myself).

This. All of this.

AI is a tool. Some people misuse new tools. They always have. They always will.

Vincent Berg 🚫

@Michael Loucks

The issues isn't the tools, it's the rampant abuse of them, as in the write hands, they are beneficial, yet those mostly relying on them, they're again, mostly using them as a crutch, never learning to walk on their own.

So I'm mostly bemoaning the fact that they're not advancing, as writers, and they're entirely too dependent on the LLM AI to co-write the story for them.

Again, it's all about known your tools, and using them as they were designed for, rather than hammering nails with a precision screw driver, a drill bit or a baseball bat.

As at this point, I'm again fewer stories than I ever have on SOL, which is not a highlight of the site. They're doing well, but … the overall writing isn't what it once was.

sunseeker 🚫

@Vincent Berg

But I'm guessing that at least 60% simply like using AI too much to try anything else. After all, you can write stories incredibly fast if you don't have to sweat the details, that's pretty cushy work.

Some laziness in there too in my opinion, but that ain't worth much lol.

There's more than 1 "author" at the moment that seem to be putting out a new story every couple of days. I can't say if they are any good or not as I have no interest in "AI Generated" stories and haven't read them...

but that's just me and my 2 cents

SunSeeker

NC-Retired 🚫

@NC-Retired

Appreciate the replies.

But let's expand the view to our larger society, not just stories and art.

My doc has told me that she has, if she wants to use it, AI assist in my ongoing health care.

I cannot help but wonder how long until I am sitting in front of a screen with an AI on the other side?

Yeah, it is bad enough for tales and artworks. But what comes after that?

Whatever it is, it will be ugly.

Replies:   Michael Loucks  Nulaak83
Michael Loucks 🚫

@NC-Retired

I cannot help but wonder how long until I am sitting in front of a screen with an AI on the other side?

Yeah, it is bad enough for tales and artworks. But what comes after that?

Whatever it is, it will be ugly.

While the current LLM/AI systems aren't proficient, the way differential diagnosis works is literally algorithmic. List the symptoms, then proceed from most likely/easist to treat to rarest/most difficult to treat.

There are pocket diagnostic guides in use; this is just taking it to the next level.

The same is true for prescribing medication. Most physicains have to look up anything that isn't in the top prescribed drugs in Physicians Desk Reference.

Plugging the symptoms/diagnosis into an algorithm is simply automating how humans behave, and will improve over time.

This is not an argument for physicianless medicine, just giving the physicians additional tools.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Michael Loucks

the way differential diagnosis works

I believe it's defective and should be replaced by a game theory approach, taking factors like urgency and lethality into account.

Sepsis is very rare (many GPs never see a case in their careers) so is well down the priorities of differential diagnosis. But it's lethal and has to be treated as quickly as possible. So UK doctors get a sticking-plaster reminder, "Are you sure this isn't sepsis?" when doing their differential diagnosis. I believe "Are you sure this isn't cancer?" is on its way too - pro-patient activists recommend asking your GP that question anyway if there's any doubt, because it's another one often missed by differential diagnosis.

AJ

Replies:   Michael Loucks
Michael Loucks 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I believe it's defective and should be replaced by a game theory approach, taking factors like urgency and lethality into account.

Medicine changes slowly, and there is a rationale to it, but it's a lengthy conversation with significant nuances. You can read all about it in my series Good Medicine, starting in Book 5 and continuing through the (being written) Book 11.

Vincent Berg 🚫

@Michael Loucks

Except, in medicine, it's not the standard treatments which are the problems, it's the exceptions, when someone's body doesn't respond as expected.

Individuals are not cogs in a machine, they're often unique, so a 'one-size fits all' approach only helps certain individuals, not everyone.

Since one idjit put me on Lithium, completely ignoring the warnings at the time, I've had a lifelong host of medical issues (i.e. my body typically reject most treatment, thinking they're attacking than than helping my body).

So for all of you without background, thank your lucky stars, but it's been a literal nightmare for me. One which could easily have been avoided.

Replies:   Michael Loucks
Michael Loucks 🚫

@Vincent Berg

Except, in medicine, it's not the standard treatments which are the problems, it's the exceptions, when someone's body doesn't respond as expected.

Individuals are not cogs in a machine, they're often unique, so a 'one-size fits all' approach only helps certain individuals, not everyone.

While this is true, it's also the case that any system that delivers mass services has to be geared towards helping the vast majority and achieving the best overall success. There is truly no other cost-effective option, and resources aren't infinite.

My solution to my unique set of medical concerns is research and conversations with my physician. I actually know more about my conditions than he does, and this is not uncommon, because GPs are, well, general practitioners.

So, I do my research, discuss it at length with him, and, when appropriate, seek help via specialists.

Why? Because I can't simply go to the pharmacist, explain what I need, and obtain it. I have to go through the medical system, with socially-agreed gatekeeping.

Medicine can only work if patients are actively participating in their own care. The fundamental problem with 'modern medicine' is that they do not.

If you are the outlier, you have to be proactive. A mass-care system cannot provide what you need without that. Right or wrong, it's the truth, so long as there are limited resources (time, money, qualified physicians, qualified nursing staff, etc.)

Replies:   NC-Retired
NC-Retired 🚫
Updated:

@Michael Loucks

Medicine can only work if patients are actively participating in their own care. The fundamental problem with 'modern medicine' is that they do not.

If you are the outlier, you have to be proactive. A mass-care system cannot provide what you need without that. Right or wrong, it's the truth, so long as there are limited resources (time, money, qualified physicians, qualified nursing staff, etc.)

I enjoy a pint at 'the pub' about once a week. One of the folks I chat with is retired army sergeant. He gets all his healthcare through the VA. He's got multiple issues and never sees that same doctor. That leads to one of those docs are trying to solve his high blood pressure with a pill. Some other problem comes up and he sees a different doc who prescribes a pill for that issue. The meds interact and create another issue. Cycle repeats. I forget how many pills a day Matt is taking, but it's a small handful kinda deal. I've tried to speak with him about taking charge of his own health, but he's resistant, using the words, "The doctors know best".

Me personally? My high BP was diagnosed 36 years ago during a routine eye exam.

Blah and blah. As we age our bodies change in their reaction to medications. I have zero clue how many different BP meds I've tried, but a lot.

Two years ago the medication and dosage that had worked fine for 6-7 years was suddenly too much and I experienced hypotension... too low BP.

Again, experiments with meds and dosages with me keeping accurate records of my BP at various times of the day and after/during activities.

Working with my primary doc, the one I see every time, we have worked out correct dosage for now, one 5mg pill in the morning.

The amazing thing is that my body does not react to the pill for 4 to 6 hours after ingesting. If I'm exercising or doing yard care type activities in the morning hours my BP can spike into the high, barely OK range. But by noon-ish, it's fully under control and perfectly in the middle of the older adult male 'normal' range.

Back to AI... I fully agree that the patient must be fully engaged with their treatment options and ask a bazillion questions both of the human physician and on the internet.

What bothers me is those human physicians that cannot or will not take the time to answer the difficult questions. I ran into a specialist a few years ago that gave me the line, "Because I said so". Needless to say, I did not go back and found another that would at least attempt to answer my concerns.

The unknown is whether the various AI versions that are coming will answer questions or be like that one, 'because I said so' with no appeals possible.

Again, thanks to all for your responses.

Replies:   Michael Loucks
Michael Loucks 🚫

@NC-Retired

What bothers me is those human physicians that cannot or will not take the time to answer the difficult questions. I ran into a specialist a few years ago that gave me the line, "Because I said so". Needless to say, I did not go back and found another that would at least attempt to answer my concerns

That is a red flag if there ever was one.

My most lengthy debates have been around statins, where my GP was pushing the 'party line' about 'risk' which is relative risk, not absolute risk.

If the study says that without the drug, 6 out of 10,000 had heart attacks, and with it, only 3 out of 10,000 had heart attacks, they claim a '50% reduction', which is 'true' as far as it goes, but the reduction is better reported as 0.03% (i.e., 3/10,000) so you can understand the true risk/reward.

Given the side effects of statins, and given I had never had a coronary event, a 0.03% reduction in heart attack risk was simply not worth it.

Nulaak83 🚫

@NC-Retired

Disagree on the bad for artwork part, most artists are insufferable so eliminating their jobs is good. It will depend on whether or not the government can effectively reverse the impacts of Hart-Cellar as to whether or not it will be good for the economy, at least in the US. If a bunch of white collar people lose their jobs and have to deal with being overrun with third worlders you're looking at a civil war in the next decade.

Comedy 🚫

@NC-Retired

I kind of wish all the ai nonsense was just in a single megathread. Instead of 12 threads with the same stuff repeated, just have one thread on it.

helmut_meukel 🚫

@Comedy

I kind of wish all the ai nonsense was just in a single megathread. Instead of 12 threads with the same stuff repeated, just have one thread on it.

Due to these repetitions I stopped reading most of these threads.

HM.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Comedy

I think the subject of AI now deserves its own Forum topic, on a par with Author Hangout etc.

AJ

hambarca12 🚫
Updated:

@NC-Retired

I think in a general societal context, AI is going to be a negative impact for quite awhile. The problem is not AI itself, its that we have poorly planned for it, and have put in place minimal regulatory oversite.

Even more importantly we have made no real plans for the displaced workers that are going to come from it. Many argue that its just an adjustment - "computer revolution" or "buggy whip manufacturing" analogies. But its not just the technological change. It took us till 1950 to get world population to 2.5 billion, now 75 years later we are at 8.0 billion. And i think way too few people will have the skills needed to fill the jobs that remain in a post AI integrated society.

REP 🚫
Updated:

@NC-Retired

AI is a fact of life in our society. I don't like it for several reasons. I dislike AI so much that I was reading the profiles of people running for California Governor in the Primary Election pamphlet, I noticed one of the candidates was the founder of an AI company.

That candidate will not get my vote when the primary occurs later this year.

Back to Top

 

WARNING! ADULT CONTENT...

Storiesonline is for adult entertainment only. By accessing this site you declare that you are of legal age and that you agree with our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.


Log In