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5/17/2025, 4:16:16 AM

What does the law where you live say about this?

The Outsider 🚫 5/11/2025, 8:04:55 PM

So, in my story "A Charmed Life," I referenced a Massachusetts State Law (MGL Chapter 278, Section 8a) which allows you to defend yourself against an intruder without allowing the commonwealth to come after you.

What do the laws in your state/country allow you to do, if anything?

Michael Loucks 🚫 5/11/2025, 8:22:12 PM
Updated: 5/11/2025, 8:23:23 PM

@The Outsider

The 'Castle Doctrine' is a part of English common law β€” "A Man's Home is his castle" (read about Semayne's case). This is the source of statutory law in the United States, which varies widely, state to state.

The idea goes back further, at least to the Roman Republic, and similar doctrines existed in China from at least the Han dynasty.

jimq2 🚫 5/11/2025, 8:22:12 PM

@The Outsider

It is referred to as the Castle Doctrine. For more info:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

Replies:   The Outsider
The Outsider 🚫 5/11/2025, 8:32:22 PM
Updated: 5/11/2025, 8:33:02 PM

@jimq2

I'm somewhat familiar with the Castle Doctrine, especially the name, but I'm mainly interested in how far folks are allowed to go with this doctrine... I am curious how it varies from place to place...

Replies:   jimq2
jimq2 🚫 5/11/2025, 9:47:41 PM

@The Outsider

If you go to the link I gave, it specifies the differences from state to state. It also gives some foreign coverage.

Replies:   The Outsider
The Outsider 🚫 5/11/2025, 10:35:18 PM

@jimq2

Oh, okay, thank you. (Sorry, I usually don't follow links because I tend to get lost in the link rabbit hole...)

Rodeodoc 🚫 5/12/2025, 3:49:36 AM

@The Outsider

Castle Doctrine does not apply in Canada. If someone breaks into your house, bangs your wife and shoots the dog, and you try to defend yourself, you'll go to jail and the criminal will walk. And we just re-elected the idiots that made that type of action a law. Can some state in America please adopt the Western provinces? We have oil.

Replies:   The Outsider
The Outsider 🚫 5/12/2025, 5:36:12 PM

@Rodeodoc

While my grandfather (GrandpΓ©re) was French-Canadian, I'd rather not encourage the orange guy living in the malarial swamp that is Washington, DC.

I might be interested in a trade for Parliament Hill, but I can't see how that would benefit you...

akarge 🚫 5/12/2025, 5:26:42 AM

@The Outsider

One thing that I do know, is (in most jurisdictions) you can't make TRAPS to defend against intruders.

Replies:   Pixy  Radagast
Pixy 🚫 5/12/2025, 7:10:33 AM

@akarge

One thing that I do know, is (in most jurisdictions) you can't make TRAPS to defend against intruders.

Can you go to a gay bar and employ a few instead?.... πŸ˜›

Radagast 🚫 5/12/2025, 7:46:24 AM

@akarge

Nor can you hunt over bait. Waiting with a gun with the door left open is a no no.

Crumbly Writer 🚫 5/12/2025, 12:41:45 PM

@The Outsider

Sorry, but the relatively recent "Stand your ground law" in the U.S., which states that you can shoot anyone who you 'feel' might portentially threaten you, is nothing more than a 'you can shoot any black or dark skinned person you want', which is perfectly in keeping with America's long-history with slavery and the subjugation of anyone who isn't an older white man!

It has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with 'the Castle Doctrine' and pretending it does is itself a gross miscarriage of justice. But then, the U.S.A. has mostly gone feral at this point, with NO rule of law whatsoever.

Replies:   ystokes
ystokes 🚫 5/12/2025, 1:18:11 PM

@Crumbly Writer

The trick is to make sure you kill the other person where there are no cameras around.

The Outsider 🚫 5/12/2025, 2:19:27 PM

@The Outsider

Well, since I'm now disabled, I was (in my case) wondering about protecting myself and my family with a D-cell Maglite... (Remember those?)

Crumbly Writer 🚫 5/12/2025, 5:04:59 PM

@The Outsider

Sorry, I got rid of all of those oversized flashlights once I bought my first 100 lumen digital flashlight. It's a fraction of the size, and you can illuminate nearly anything, and see clearly at much greater distances.

They're adjustable too, so you can either dim it, or even use a red-light filter (which doesn't travel nearly as far) when you want be largely unnoticed (i.e. doing something relatively illegal). Though I mostly use it when I walking along the street at night, so I don't wake the neighbors up with it, especially in a crowded, smaller city residential block.

Michael Loucks 🚫 5/12/2025, 5:15:03 PM

@Crumbly Writer

You missed his point entirely. See my response.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer 🚫 5/12/2025, 7:00:36 PM

@Michael Loucks

No thank. As your 'point' was patently obvious enough. I was just raising a different point of view. You're not responsible for accepting it, it's simply an alternative, nothing else and nothing more. Take it or leave it.

Replies:   Michael Loucks
Michael Loucks 🚫 5/12/2025, 8:33:28 PM

@Crumbly Writer

No thank. As your 'point' was patently obvious enough. I was just raising a different point of view. You're not responsible for accepting it, it's simply an alternative, nothing else and nothing more. Take it or leave it.

The gentleman doth protest too much, methinks.

I'd say it's obvious you missed the point with your response as it had zero to do with illumination (unless by 'illumination' you mean causing someone to realize the error of their ways by being clubbed with a heavy object).

Your response is akin to someone asking 'What do you want to eat?' and you respond 'I prefer black appliances.'

Dominions Son 🚫 5/12/2025, 5:46:08 PM

@Crumbly Writer

It's a fraction of the size, and you can illuminate nearly anything

Yes, but can you use it as a weapon (club)?

This is what you were replying to:

Well, since I'm now disabled, I was (in my case) wondering about protecting myself and my family with a D-cell Maglite... (Remember those?)

The Outsider 🚫 5/12/2025, 5:52:39 PM

@Dominions Son

I guess the real question with the Maglite is, "Is the 2-cell enough, or should I get a bigger one?"

awnlee jawking 🚫 5/12/2025, 6:16:11 PM

@The Outsider

Can you legally obtain one that strobes?

AJ

Replies:   The Outsider
The Outsider 🚫 5/12/2025, 6:35:53 PM

@awnlee jawking

Well, I have a small one that does that, but I wouldn't be able to get to that at night...

rustyken 🚫 5/12/2025, 11:13:07 PM

@The Outsider

The two cell version might be sufficient, but I think I would go with the three or four cell version.

Replies:   The Outsider
The Outsider 🚫 5/12/2025, 11:37:55 PM
Updated: 5/12/2025, 11:38:34 PM

@rustyken

Who wants the intruder to get too close, right? The 4-cell was only US$40 last I checked...

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫 5/12/2025, 11:48:43 PM
Updated: 5/12/2025, 11:49:19 PM

@The Outsider

Who wants the intruder to get too close, right? The 4-cell was only US$40 last I checked...

I just checked Maglite's website.

The 4D maglite is listed for $59.99
https://maglite.com/collections/best-sellers/products/ml300l-4d-led-long-running-flashlight-box

Of course if you really want to maximize length, they have a 6D for $69.99
https://maglite.com/collections/best-sellers/products/ml300l-led-6-cell-d-flashlight

Replies:   The Outsider
The Outsider 🚫 5/13/2025, 6:13:28 PM

@Dominions Son

These days, I don't know if I could swing either...

Replies:   Paladin_HGWT
Paladin_HGWT 🚫 5/17/2025, 2:13:33 AM

@The Outsider

Check out Berna (sp?) They are a "pistol shaped" dispenser for several types of NON-leathal "munitions" similar to "pepper spray" but that are (currently) Legal in All 50 States, and all the Territories, and D.C.

I don't know about Canada or other nations.

Marketed to people who Don't want to (or can't legally possess firearms or OC "Pepper spray" etc.

Replies:   jimq2
jimq2 🚫 5/17/2025, 2:26:54 AM

@Paladin_HGWT

https://byrna.com/

CO2 powered guns weren't legal in NJ last I knew. Someone from PA gave my dad a CO2 pellet gun to deal with squirrels in his backyard. He was told by a police officer friend it wasn't legal. He gave it to me to bring to AZ when I moved.

Replies:   Grey Wolf
Grey Wolf 🚫 5/17/2025, 2:50:46 AM

@jimq2

According to some searching, it's the pellet that matters. Metal pellets (BB gun, etc) are 'firearms' in NJ and one must comply with the same firearms regulations used for other weapons.

However, weapons that fire a plastic pellet are not 'firearms' and do not have to comply with the same regulations. Airsoft, paintball, etc weapons are fine.

All of Byrna's projectiles seem to be plastic, so they're fine.

Note that actually using the weapon to injure someone might well be a violation of the law. Likely not in self defense, though.

Some of Byrna's rounds say they cannot be shipped to various states, but NJ is not one of those states (on the pages I looked at, which is not all of them).

Replies:   jimq2
jimq2 🚫 5/17/2025, 3:27:50 AM
Updated: 5/17/2025, 3:28:31 AM

@Grey Wolf

Actually the one in question can fire either metal or plastic pellets. As I understood it, from 40+ years ago, what made it illegal was the use of CO2 cylinders. I've used it in AZ with the plastic pellets on feral cats in my back yard. It didn't kill them, but after a few hits, they didn't come back. I first used a Hav-A-Hart trap, but the city pound wanted about $50 each to take them off my hands.

palamedes 🚫 5/13/2025, 12:08:32 AM

@The Outsider

I guess the real question with the Maglite is, "Is the 2-cell enough, or should I get a bigger one?"

I myself prefer at least a 4 cell maglite but you would have to decide on your own as there is weight to take into account that might be a problem with your disability .

Crumbly Writer 🚫 5/12/2025, 7:05:59 PM

@Dominions Son

Obviously not, yet aside from using it as a cudgel, and cudgels have ALWAYS been better than flashlights anyway, as flashlights have a nasty habit of shattering when hitting blunt objects, I was merely pointing out that I haven't bothered with a heavy, inefficient flashlight in … ten or fifteen years?

Again, there are usually more efficient alternatives to virtually anything nowadays, if you search around for it enough.

So yes, you continue beating the crap out of whoever you want. Me, I have more productive actives I enjoy more. But hey, that's just me. As always, you do you (just warn me the next time you're in my neighborhood, so we can avoid each other on dark nights).

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫 5/12/2025, 8:56:10 PM
Updated: 5/12/2025, 8:57:38 PM

@Crumbly Writer

So yes, you continue beating the crap out of whoever you want.

The point was not about going on the offensive and beating the crap out of random people, but using it as a weapon for self-defense if (and only if) you are attacked.

In fact, the whole thread is about self-defense.

awnlee jawking 🚫 5/12/2025, 10:33:42 PM

@The Outsider

Can you legally own a taser where you live?

AJ

palamedes 🚫 5/12/2025, 11:52:57 PM

@The Outsider

Well, since I'm now disabled, I was (in my case) wondering about protecting myself and my family with a D-cell Maglite... (Remember those?)

Well a 6 d-cell maglite is just as good as any ball bat but if you find yourself with a police security .410 Maglite (a.K.a CSG AOW .410 COMPANION) you can have your self a 3 d-cell and a single round .410 shotgun shell fired from the butt cap.

Though it isn't hard now to find USB recharge.able plastic maglites that will make you wish for any NERF gun instead.

Also it is worth changing out the incandescent bulb with the LED replacements as they don't blow out when dropped or accidentally hit against something.

Dominions Son 🚫 5/13/2025, 12:57:37 AM

@The Outsider

Well, since I'm now disabled, I was (in my case) wondering about protecting myself and my family with a D-cell Maglite... (Remember those?)

Thinking about it, if you don't want or can't have a gun, another option to consider for something that isn't an obvious weapon is a tactical cane.

Michael Loucks 🚫 5/12/2025, 3:28:43 PM

@The Outsider

D-cell Maglite

It would qualify as a +3 mace of concussion in D&D!

Replies:   The Outsider
The Outsider 🚫 5/12/2025, 4:10:11 PM

@Michael Loucks

It would fix the problem either way! (I never got into D&D much, but my son plays it now...)

jimq2 🚫 5/12/2025, 8:24:01 PM
Updated: 5/12/2025, 8:24:27 PM

@The Outsider

During my 15 years as an over the road truck driver, I carried a 3 cell MagLite in a belt loop when I got out of my truck anywhere that might be unsafe. It was effective on 2 occasions. Besides which I could light my way around dark truck stops.

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