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Reader reported typos - an oddity

Ernest Bywater 🚫

I like to try and have my stories as perfect as I can, thus I must annoy Lazeez and the other moderators with the constant reposts due to making corrections and reposting chapters and stories when readers report typos to me. However, with my latest story I've noticed two things about the reported typos:

1. Most of them are where I've made editing changes after the editors listed something to correct. These are mostly cases where the wording has changed a little but I've not made all the changes needed to the sentence or paragraph due to that change.

2. This is the real oddity, in the over 100 reported typos in my latest story only one typo was reported by two different readers. I also had typos reported by about twenty different readers yet only two picked up that typo.

In a way, this oddity helps me to accept the fact I and my editors missed so many typos.

Has anyone else noticed this happening with typos reported by their readers?

Switch Blayde 🚫
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

These are mostly cases where the wording has changed a little but I've not made all the changes needed to the sentence

This is common for me. I usually catch them before posting during another re-read, but it happens a lot to me.

That's why it's important for me to read it again and again until I don't find errors.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater 🚫

@Switch Blayde

That's why it's important for me to read it again and again until I don't find errors.

I agree, but even after dozens of re-reads some of them still slip through.

Replies:   Dicrostonyx
Dicrostonyx 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

Terry Pratchett commented on this in an interview once. His experience was that when he caught a typo he'd have a sudden burst of happiness, then miss the next typo. This is why multiple edits are necessary, but if you have a string of typos in a row, which does occasionally happen, you need a lot of passes to catch them all.

graybyrd 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

I'm thinking its a fair idea to let the posted chapters 'ripen' a bit, until a number of readers have gone through. I've one fan who reads with a spyglass and tweezers. He dutifully reports each missing punctuation mark, glitch, or stray typo. After a time, I submit a corrected upload to replace the buggy version. This eases the 'pester Lazeez' factor, I hope.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater  DBActive
Ernest Bywater 🚫

@graybyrd

This eases the 'pester Lazeez' factor, I hope.

In general, and the past, I agree. However, I need a major memory upgrade as my short term memory has reduced to being measured in seconds and not days, most of the time. So i tend to do things while I remember them or I'll forget to do them.

Replies:   Dominions Son  graybyrd
Dominions Son 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

However, I need a major memory upgrade as my short term memory has reduced to being measured in seconds and not days, most of the time. So i tend to do things while I remember them or I'll forget to do them.

But then you'll forget you did them and do them again.

Replies:   Keet
Keet 🚫

@Dominions Son

But then you'll forget you did them and do them again.

Registration! I keep a personal task list in Thunderbird that I update when a task is finished. I learned the hard way to make updating that list part of the task itself so I don't repeat it :)

graybyrd 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

Forget to do what?

DBActive 🚫

@graybyrd

Given that most stories on here are filled with typos, grammatical errors, spelling errors and homophone errors, that person must either limit his "proofing" to just yours, or has a lot of free time.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater 🚫

@DBActive

Given that most stories on here are filled with typos, grammatical errors, spelling errors and homophone errors, that person must either limit his "proofing" to just yours, or has a lot of free time.

There are a few readers who are very extensive in their typo reporting. However, there are far more writers who aren't interested in making the corrections than there are authors who want to know about the errors and then take the time to fix them. The readers soon learn which category the creator of a story is in and stop reporting issues to those that don't reply or correct their stories. Some even stop reading the stories of those who don't reply.

happytechguy15 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

My eyes spot lots of irregularities even on a first read. (I'm only a reader, not author). I'm currently reading a new 824kb enjoyable story, online - not downloaded. Lots of simple stuff - the word is spelled right, but wrong word for context. If there was a way to read it formatted to my phone, where I could highlight the error in yellow, then transfer to my laptop and/or to author, I'd be fine with reporting errors (assuming author wanted.)

Replies:   PotomacBob
PotomacBob 🚫

@happytechguy15

I'm currently reading a new 824kb enjoyable story, online - not downloaded.

I thought I read in the forum a couple of centuries ago that if you read a story on your screen from SOL, that IS technically a "download." Is that incorrect?

Replies:   Keet  happytechguy15
Keet 🚫

@PotomacBob

I thought I read in the forum a couple of centuries ago that if you read a story on your screen from SOL, that IS technically a "download." Is that incorrect?

It is. How do you think your browser can display it if the page isn't downloaded? The difference with a 'normal' download is that it isn't stored for later use, it just sits for a short while in the browser cache.

happytechguy15 🚫

@PotomacBob

Sorry, my definition of "download" is to save on my device for off line reading. If I lose cell signal or wifi whole I'm reading a story, and the device does a "refresh" without my permission, then I lose the story page.

I do understand that SOL counts a download as anytime a story page goes below the double-click-to-read-more.

Sorry for the confusion.

Paladin_HGWT 🚫
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

I have a dozen to twenty readers who consistently report errors or discrepancies when I post a chapter. A couple more from Fine Stories.

I am happy when I have 3 or fewer errors in a chapter of 10,000 to 12,000 words. Typically, I have six to a dozen errors, or more. Thanks to my volunteer proofreader I have fewer errors. If I were to decide to publish a print or ebook, I would have to get an editor!

Locally there are 3 or 4 writers who post on SOL, and a couple of readers; several of whom I see on weekly, or at least monthly. I sometimes get a text about suggested corrections before I get the email notifying me about my current chapter getting posted.

When I first started posting most of the suggested corrections were made by multiple people. After posting some 20 chapters I have improved as a writer. I make fewer obvious errors. So, recently I have found that similar to what Ernest Bywater commented, each person that PMs me has noticed different errors.

Part of this is because some people who PM me notice particular things. I suspect that some differences are because of how people read it, and the resolution.

I don't have internet where I live, so, like now I'm using my phone. The chapters display differently than when reading on my laptop. Both are different from MS Word.

When possible, I try to read my recent postings on my laptop, then on my phone. I often catch different errors.

If they are glaring errors, I correct my master document, then upload the corrections ASAP. Otherwise, I tend to wait 1 to 2 weeks, checking Fine Storiesonline.net too. Although I make the corrections, and save on a version x.1 document.

I respond to All PMs, even if I don't make a correction. Sometimes it is less an error than an opinion. Or, I have a character "miss-speaking" for a reason. Occasionally, it is differences between USA, English, Australian, or a regional dialect; or manner of speaking.

Sometimes it is because I am using the US Army (or USMC, USAF, etc.) "Style Guide" or military slang or vernacular. Not all of my readers appreciate my using this style. I do consider those comments. I decided that I am trying to "Show not Tell" also, I am annoyed when movies or books "get it wrong" although, that is subjective.

I really do appreciate people who PM me about my story. Corrections, suggestions, and comments. I consider what they say. If I don't agree, I still respond, thank them. Often I offer my reasoning. Sometimes an exchange of PMs may result in one or both of us modifying our opinions.

Back to the OP, the better you write, the less likely that multiple people will notify us about the same error. Partially because of how the chapters display on different devices. Partially because not as many people will notice an error that is not glaring.

Also, readers who follow a particular writer may be less likely to notice some errors, thinking "that's just that writer's style." Or, Ernest Bywater is using Australian English.

I recognized that another writer on SOL was South African by cues in their writing, before it was confirmed in the story that it was set in South Africa.

I enjoy languages, and the subtle (or not) differences between a Geordie, a Yorkshire dialect, a Welshman, Scot, Texan, Georgian, or New Yorker; Berliners, Silesians, and Bavarian. I get some comments that use of dialect, slang, and foreign languages in particular "take some people out of the story"

For me, I find it odd if a story set in Louisiana or Georgia is written in plain English. I grew up reading Mark Twain, and Robert Service. Later Louis L'Amour, so reading in dialect and different languages is part of the joy of immersive reading (and traveling).

Replies:   Keet
Keet 🚫

@Paladin_HGWT

I really do appreciate people who PM me about my story. Corrections, suggestions, and comments. I consider what they say.

It might be a good idea for Lazeez to add some switches to the author profile where the author can indicate if he welcomes typo reports or comments about other errors. I have encountered authors that don't respond at all, tell me to fuck off, or greatly appreciate the comments. The second one made me very reluctant to send comments about typos. If there was an indication that an authors welcomes or refuses such comments that would help both readers and authors.
To add to that, I usually wait for a story to complete before reading it. Apart from knowing that the story is complete many authors have already fixed reported problems so that makes reading even better. If I still find typos than those will be typos that everyone before me missed or the author missed fixing them. I think a that's a valuable typo report too.

Replies:   Paladin_HGWT  solitude
Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@Keet

It might be a good idea for Lazeez to add some switches to the author profile where the author can indicate if he welcomes typo reports or comments about other errors.

I think that is a great idea Keet.

Please suggest that to Lazeez.

Replies:   Keet
Keet 🚫

@Paladin_HGWT

I think that is a great idea Keet.

Please suggest that to Lazeez.

I thought so too but it might raise some problems implementing something like that. Out of necessity the initial default would have to be for all authors to NOT want any comments. Which in turn requires all current authors that welcome typo reports and/or other comments to set the switch(es) otherwise they would no longer receive those reports.
I believe an author can already switch off PM's/Email so Lazeez will probably think that is enough. The sad thing is that many authors who don't want any comments fail to switch that off and will probably also fail to set any new switches.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@Keet

Out of necessity the initial default would have to be for all authors to NOT want any comments.

No, The default should be like it is today. It should take an action by an author to opt out of it.

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea. An author can already turn off emails and comments and reviews. Would this be: I want feedback/emails, but not typos? That's weird.

Replies:   Keet
Keet 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Would this be: I want feedback/emails, but not typos? That's weird.

No, it would be an indication for readers that they can report typos without getting told to fuck off. I think a lot of readers don't report typos or other mistakes they found because they had a bad experience with an author before.

Replies:   Fra Bartolo
Fra Bartolo 🚫

@Keet

No, it would be an indication for readers that they can report typos without getting told to fuck off. I think a lot of readers don't report typos or other mistakes they found because they had a bad experience with an author before.

For one thing, one could make the selection ternary, i.e. "Want typo reports: yes, no, unspecified" and make "unspecified" the default; which would make sense for authors who have moved on.

But in any case, you can always just ask an author if they're interested in getting feedback about spelling. That has worked fine for me so far.

Oh, and just today one author was blogging about quitting the site because of too many mails complaining about his spelling with regard to homophones. "There" loss, I say ;-)

Replies:   Michael Loucks
Michael Loucks 🚫
Updated:

@Fra Bartolo

Oh, and just today one author was blogging about quitting the site because of too many mails complaining about his spelling with regard to homophones. "There" loss, I say ;-)

Worse, said author claims he "can't go into and correct it".

Say what?! At times I fear the moderators might ban me because I submit corrected chapters with sickening regularity!

Replies:   Grey Wolf  Paladin_HGWT
Grey Wolf 🚫

@Michael Loucks

Same here. No moderators have complained yet, though. I really wish there was a way to make a quick change to a few words without all the to-do, but I'm sure some bad actors would use that to change an age to below 14 or violate some other site rule...

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@Michael Loucks

I agree with Michael Loucks and Grey Wolf, in my gratitude for the moderators who tolerate my repeated updates. It seems no matter how much I self-edit, run spell & grammar check programs, and have a volunteer proofreader. As soon as I read my latest posting, I notice errors; as well as receive PMs and emails from readers about needed corrections.

I will post an updated version as soon as I get internet access for my computer; so that hopefully most readers will have a better version. Then, I wait about two weeks during which time I will get another half-dozen corrections.

I also get some different corrections from my version on Finestories.com (same version as on SOL). Later, if I get further corrections, I will conduct another pass-through and then update a particular chapter.

I have also learned some overall improvements to writing, and formatting. I am planning to repost numerous chapter, probably by the end of Summer as I review and update my "master documents" Great moderators!

I also appreciate the constructive criticism. Some who PM me are verging (or a bit beyond) rude. A few are "just the facts." Most are rather pleasant about their suggestions.

Most importantly every person who comments or even criticizes Read our stories.

solitude 🚫

@Keet

It might be a good idea for Lazeez to add some switches to the author profile where the author can indicate if he welcomes typo reports or comments about other errors.

Good idea, if a ternary switch as was suggested by
Fra Bartolo. Especially if Our kind host implemented it so that readers were given a warning when commenting on a story, viz.: "Please note that this author has indicated that comments on typos and minor errors are not welcome."

tenyari 🚫
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater

One benefit of dialogue heavy stories is you can pretend like you meant to do that. :)

Back when I was actively writing I don't think I ever got a comment about a typo. That does NOT mean I didn't have them. I recently re-read a story of mine that won a silver clitoride award the year it came out - about 20 or so years ago - and I was shocked at how full of errors it was. And that it was received so well despite all those errors.

Then again right now I'm reading a story I can barely manage to stomach, where the writer switches tenses and POVs often in mid sentence. Sometimes even switches who's talking mid-sentence. And will use 10 paragraphs to describe 'looking to the left', followed by one sentence for an entire 'did a bunch of stuff on the planet' scene... And the thing not only has a good score, the author's managed to get set up with a successful patreon for fans to get even more of that messy writing.

So I just don't know with readers.

I kinda wish I had had readers more willing to let me know when I get spelling and grammar wrong though. I don't mind revising a story when it's still fairly new, and I'd much prefer to have a well written version be the one that 'stands the test of time' over something I look back at 20 years later and wonder about.

Replies:   helmut_meukel  Pixy
helmut_meukel 🚫

@tenyari

One benefit of dialogue heavy stories is you can pretend like you meant to do that. :)

Doesn't work for homophones. In dialogue using the wrong spelling it's solely the writer to blame if he mix-up e.g. their, they're and there. Or when on an airfield one character says: "Let's look into the hanger there!". If the character knows the correct spelling ('hangar') or not is irrelevant.
With me/I the writer can always blame the character to use it wrong.
e.g. 1)"Fred met Jenna and I at the mall." (wrong)
but 2)"Jenna and I met Fred at the mall." (correct)
This error occurs when others are involved (Jenna), rule of thumb to check if it should be 'me' or 'I', just remove Jenna from the sentence:
1) "Fred met I at the mall." (obviously wrong)
2) "I met Fred at the mall."
However the author can always blame the character for using it wrong.

HM.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@helmut_meukel

With me/I the writer can always blame the character to use it wrong.

But what if the story is 1st-person?

The narrative (as opposed to the dialogue) is the 1st-person narrator. That narrator has a voice which may not be grammatically correct.

Replies:   helmut_meukel
helmut_meukel 🚫

@Switch Blayde

But what if the story is 1st-person?

The narrative (as opposed to the dialogue) is the 1st-person narrator. That narrator has a voice which may not be grammatically correct.

For me, it's the same for 1st- and 3rd-person narrator. The – written – narrative should always be grammatically correct. If the narrator has an audience he is telling the story verbally to, then it's dialogue.
Think of the narrative as a report – for a customer, your bosses, the authorities, ... – about what happened. You would at least try to get it correct, wouldn't you?

HM.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@helmut_meukel

For me, it's the same for 1st- and 3rd-person narrator. The – written – narrative should always be grammatically correct.

Think of a Mark Twain novel written in 1st-person. The narrator is telling the story in his voice, but it's not dialogue. Or imagine a novel from a 1st-person narrator who is 10 years old. Not an adult telling the story of when she was 10 (like a novel like "To Kill a Mockingbird") where the adult is telling the story, but an actual 10-yo telling the story. Part of the charm of that story is the 10-yo's voice.

I'm currently writing a novel in 1st-person. The narrator is an old woman recollecting on her life (starting right before she turns 16). So it's an adult telling the story. But the adult was never an English teacher so I remember at least one time I wrote "me and Debbie" rather than "Debbie and I" in the narrative. I did it often in the dialogue, but I also did it in the narrative.

Pixy 🚫

@tenyari

where the write switches

'writer' ;)

Replies:   tenyari
tenyari 🚫

@Pixy

Edited to fix that. :)

It's good to get feedback so you can improve what you're writing. I still say I wish I'd had such feedback back when I was an active writer.

Replies:   DBActive
DBActive 🚫

@tenyari

I guess someone already told you about this one:
Alandra Naked in School
A Story in the Naked In School Universe
by tenyari
CopyrightΒ© 2004 by tenyari
Β© Copyright 2003 - 2004 - all rights reversed.

Replies:   tenyari
tenyari 🚫

@DBActive

CopyrightΒ© 2004 by tenyari
Β© Copyright 2003 - 2004 - all rights reversed.

That appears to be in a heading that I don't have edit access to, as far as I can tell.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@tenyari

I thought SOL copyright statements could be user-tailored.

I've never tried it myself.

AJ

Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I thought SOL copyright statements could be user-tailored.

My understanding is that it's strictly based on when the story (or chapter 1 for a multi-chapter) story was posted.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@awnlee jawking

They can be, yes. Through the 'Manage Stories' functionality. Also through the {copy} tag during the initial post.

However, some old stories have an extra copyright statement embedded in the site's cover, and usually displays the default copyright statement in addition to this embedded one.

The default is generated from the time stamp of the story's initial post on the site. Sometime if the original post contains an earlier copyright notice, we tag it and it ends up being in the custom field in the database, and it's editable by the author.

Replies:   rustyken
rustyken 🚫

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

Ah but it is 'reversed' as opposed to 'reserved'. What a difference a letter makes. ;-)

Replies:   tenyari
tenyari 🚫

@rustyken

Thank you for fixing that.

Yesterday I went and checked and set all my stories to the default and that one stuck. It's a VERY OLD story.

richardshagrin 🚫

@Ernest Bywater

When you write about blood types, be sure that you mention type A, type B and type AB. Be careful not to mention Type O because you will get a lot of criticisms about TypOs.

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