Forum: Author Hangout

However, there are some who get breast implants, but don't intend to ever have the genitalia converted. Some of those as CW has pointed out self identify as she-males.

Well ... that's not quite true. Some start the process, decide they can't afford the entire process, but continue performing in gay drag shows. But they're a very specific subset, distinct from the majority of the transgendered.

What's more common are those who won't want to undergo the full operation. Not only is there the expensive sex reassignment surgery--also requiring travel to foreign countries (who have the best reputation for this sort of thing)--but there's the lesser know facial reconstruction surgeries.

For many, it's enough to simply look like the appropriate sex. This is especially true for female to male cases, as the options are fewer. As with most things, it's easier for males, because no matter what you do, you will never have a functioning penis, while a fake vagina (another bad term) isn't such a roadblock.

@Wheezer

Pssst! What day is today? ;)

The question might very well be a joke, but the subject matter is hardly a joking matter, and anyone considering a trans character needs to know these details.

You never know when some story might need a given character, so it's handy keeping these details in your back pocket for whenever you might need them.

If someone gets their giggles off making fun of others, I'm glad they're so easily amused. But until I'm told otherwise, I'll take the question seriously.

Sorry, I fail to see how that contradicts any part of what I wrote.

Only that it's a very small part of the trans population. Most exist under the radar, rather than parading on stage.

@DS

Not with current technology anyway. Who knows what may develop in the future.

The issue is with the multiple individual veins and valves in the penis which allow an erection. The level of intricate surgery required is mind-boggling. The only way they could improve one is if they could grow a brand new penis using the person's own DNA, and then surgically attack it--which then requires a lifetime of anti-rejection drugs--something few would trade given how rampant age-related ED is.

@Ernest

The time stamp I see on your original post is 9:21 p.m. 1st April, a clear 9 hours after the time allowed to pull an April Fool's joke, and my reply is 12:31 a.m. 2nd April 2016, and thus clearly well outside the limit.

Not if they only wake up at 8:30, or can only post when they're not at work!

@awnlee_jawking

I have to admit I'm mildly disappointed. I think you're one of the few authors here capable of pulling off a sympathetic transgender character.

@Grant

Have to admit I'm glad it's a joke.
If the character fits in with the story, then OK.
But doing something just because it's fashionable at the moment?

That's why I added my addendum stating I doubted you could add it to an existing story due to the lack of proper character development.

However, I doubt the issue will disappear over time. Rather, it's likely to become more acceptable, and earlier crude efforts would be seen as corageous voices speaking up for an underclass. The trans community are like the gays, who rose to across-the-board acceptance much faster than either blacks, Hispanics or Muslims, who after hundreds of years are still treated as empty soulless stereotypes.

But this story fits neither of those conditions, and it wasn't a serious suggestion in the first place.

That said, raising these issues just might allow other authors to consider the situation, and potentially include a few more mainsteam trans characters (mainstream as in, their outrageous actions aren't the basis of the entire story). I've long maintained that including minorities as fleshed out characters and putting them in front of the white majorities is the best approach to advancing minority rights.

We can argues which rights they're warranted, but since they're born this way, that clearly makes them an ethnic minority (based on their DNA and background alone), thus the 'equal protection under the law' applies over any personal religious or political views.

Pssst! What day is today? ;)

Saturday 2nd April according to my clock. If it's meant as a joke, it's a full day late.

As long as everyone had fun...

And it is a serious topic even though I was goofing around. I received many well thought out emails. I personally don't plan to write about a character like this, but it is relevant and I think the discussion was worth having.

Thanks for being good sports and have a great weekend.

I have to admit I'm mildly disappointed. I think you're one of the few authors here capable of pulling off a sympathetic transgender character.

AJ

I strayed from a straight mf story and added a mm scene. That small few paragraphs ruined the story for a lot of readers and I heard from them about that - and not how good the story was.

My advice is don't do it. You have a good story line going. Don't make it messy.

Sadly, that's especially true for particular squicks--especially on SOL! That said, you can include trans and gay characters, but tread lightly if you include any sexual episodes. If you do include gay sex scenes, do not post on SOL! Instead post on one of the many 'gay friendly' story sites. They're not as polished or well-developed as SOL, but you'll receive a LOT less 1-bombs and hate mail.

I'm preparing to publish a new gay romance that focuses on internal conflicts within the gay community, and sadly, it won't publish here. I doubt that many of my traditional readers will follow it. Hell, even out of my own family, only one person has read it--my 86-year-old mother--who liked it. But my bro and sis-in-law--the parents of two gay teens--had zero interest in even glancing at it.

@demonmaster62

First of all, if you are going to put a Transgender in your story, because you feel pressured to do so, to keep your readership, and it wasn't what you had in mind in the first place; DO NOT BOW TO THE PRESSURE!! That is part of the problem that has put us into the current political backlash that is going on out there!

Seriously? I mean, can you even imagine a world where any straight writer would feel pressure or stigmatized if they didn't post anything besides a 'whites only' story?

I think the only people considering including such subplots are interested in inclusion and exploring new areas and new character types. Those who bow to pressure will follow the mainstream.

I mean, can you even imagine a world where any straight writer would feel pressure or stigmatized if they didn't post anything besides a 'whites only' story?

Why not? It already happens in television, movies and theatre. To get something on the BBC, for example, you have to include token black, Asian and gay characters, even if the plot's set in a 1950s English village.

AJ

If you do include gay sex scenes, do not post on SOL! Instead post on one of the many 'gay friendly' story sites.

I wouldn't exactly agree with this, CW. Because I don't know of any gay friendly sites, simply because that's not my usual scene. However, I do have a story with a gay sex scene in it, and the main character is TG. It's a short story, properly coded and a score of 6.9, the lowest number of downloads for any of my stories, and the third lowest score. So it is possible to do fairly well with a TG or gay story at SoL, I think it's how you write the story.

https://storiesonline.net/s/63622/naughty-jo

We discussed this in another thread (somewhere). There are now 57 separate recognized pronouns, mostly created by in a war between proper pronoun use between various competing universities. The point is, it's too damn difficult to make heads or tales of it, and even if you do, you've then got to convince your readership of it's appropriateness, and it likely won't be resolved for some time.

That's why I keep saying, create a specific pronoun for whichever character you create, and have that character insist on it as their personal choice, rather than as the 'proper' pronoun for ALL trans. You can get creative, having that character justify their choices, but the point is, you don't dictate to trans-folk what they should be called, you refer to them as they themselves identify.

If one prefer hs and another hz, then you use whichever fits that particular person, rather than lecture everyone you know to always refers to transfolk as hz because 'all the transfolk I know' use that term.

Generally, though, "shim" and "sher" are seen as transitional terms, or bi-terms rather than how someone identifies. In other words, a woman born as a man would more likely identify as a woman than as a shemale (which is a term reserved for 'chicks with dicks' in the drag community).

Given my trans background, I would probably refer to them with male pronounds when they are presenting as male, female pronouns when they are presenting as female, and they/them if their presented gender is unclear. I would also frequently refer to them by name to limit confusion, although some confusion might enhance the story's intended effect, if you so intend.

As much as my comments got dumped on (over my not being able to 'take' mean-spiriting jabs disguised as jokes), I'll weigh in again (even though I'll regret it).

I agree with this approach. There's very much a transition when a person 'transforms' from one perspective to another. If they're trying to pass as male (their birth sex), they'll insist on "he" so they don't fall down the rabbit hole of forgetting how to act around others. But then they put on the dress and makeup, they transform their self-perception, often calling themselves an entirely new name as a way of cementing in their minds that they've got to act differently.

This isn't so much a transgender issue, as a racial identity issue. It's the same thing that blacks face on a daily basis. When they dress in a suit and tie in the morning and head to work, then begin thinking like their white friends, putting on a white viewpoint which guides them in their every decision and interaction, less they unintentionally offend their coworkers.

However, when they return home and meet with their friends and family, they'll physically change from one 'costume to another' to reinforce that they've got to act 'black' so as to not offend those who've known them their entire lives, who might accuse them of 'acting white' and putting on airs.

That's a side of the coin I can relate to, as I was married to a Jamaican woman and we both worked in the New York City financial industry for years, and I saw this internal conflict with various members of her family and friends over the years. It's by no means restricted to only trans or blacks, but addresses the trials and tribulations of anyone who's forced to take on conflicting personas.

@sandpiper

"XXX never knew which way XXX would dress in the morning."

Should XXX be "(s)he," "s/he," or the default "he?" Or something else?

As I said, I'd go with "he" in this context, "she" whenever she's preparing for that role, and optionally "they" when they're caught in the turmoil between those very different roles, considering what the implications of crossing over between the two are.

But, as transdelion notes, you've got to be careful in this middle zone, as it's a potential minefield since readers are likely to get confused and to misinterpret the essential conflicts, taking offense over perceived 'transgressions' (either to the trans fork, or the broader world of normals who feels slighted by the work).

Good luck with the story. It sounds interesting.

If I may, you might want to take a look at my analogy. Making the book more a statement of balancing life on the cusp of two separate worlds, rather than merely dwelling on 'being trans', might make the story more universally relatable, so it appeals to a broader audience. At the very least, I'd include a couple 'working professional' black/Hispanic/Asian characters as sounding boards for the main character, as each reflect their own perceptions on the others.

It'll make the story much more complex, but sometimes, that's a good thing. It provides readers with something they can really sink their teeth into. 'D