Forum: Author Hangout

And if it's during a heat wave, consider that the US usually has minimal deaths from those because of the prevalence of AC units.

Even with out AC, extreme cold kill far more people than extreme heat.

Disease due to rotting corpses in the summer may even it out, but under the described conditions, from weather alone you would get far more deaths in winter than in summer.

That's not true. The highest cause of weather related death in the world is heat.

Sorry, SB. Just not true. Cold kills as much as 10 times more than heat worldwide. A CDC analysis of death certificates found twice as many cold related deaths as heat related deaths in the U.S.

Although given the way the CDC is counting COVID-19 deaths, I'm not sure how reliable that analysis is.

NOAA also analyzed deaths and came to an opposite conclusion. But given the way they play funny with temperature data in their effort to promote the theory of man-made global warming, I'm not so sure I'd accept anything they say.

Kinda sucks when you can't rely on the government for fact based data. It is a problem.

I'm just curious why you think you ever could.

I'm an old fart and fondly remember the time when you could. It started to change in the Johnson administration. Lyndon Baines, not Andrew. Just a little nibblin' around the edges at first. Then it just kept getting worse.

I'm an old fart and fondly remember the time when you could. It started to change in the Johnson administration.

Sorry, It started with Alexander Hamilton in the George Washington administration.

Hamilton swore to his state's ratifying convention that the commerce clause, even with the addition of the necessary and proper clause would not give the new federal government the authority to create a national bank.

Then Hamilton became Washington's Secretary of the Treasury and one of his first acts was the creation of a national bank.

Then Hamilton became Washington's Secretary of the Treasury and one of his first acts was the creation of a national bank.

So how does that speak to the reliability of data published by the government? Granted, it does speak to the flip/flop weasely(?) behavior of just about any politician. But that's about it.

So how does that speak to the reliability of data published by the government?

Because the government, be it through politicians or bureaucrats, will lie it's ass off to get what it/they want.

The "change" I was referring to was screwing with the factual data. What you're describing is just politics as practiced in Western Civilization for at least 3,000 years.

SB, they all do that. No question. But their number crunchers used to be reliable (or so I believe). There was integrity in those bureaucracies. Not so much any more.

There was integrity in those bureaucracies.

No, there never was, but clearly we won't be able to talk you out of your delusion.

but clearly we won't be able to talk you out of your delusion.

Nor me yours. And where did "we" come from? Don't you mean "I"?

So we'll agree to live in our own bubbles.

SB, they all do that. No question. But their number crunchers used to be reliable (or so I believe). There was integrity in those bureaucracies.

When? I'd suspect it'd have to be before the time of Sam Clemens...

But their number crunchers used to be reliable (or so I believe). There was integrity in those bureaucracies. Not so much any more.

How can you be so sure?

How can you be so sure?

Without going into a lot of detail, experience. Both with temperature data and economic data (esp. that related to CPI calculation). But that was long, long ago in a galaxy far away....

My wife's been taking online college courses on things like the Supreme Court, Civil War/slavery, government, etc

So - we are to trust academics to tell the truth?

So - we are to trust academics to tell the truth?

Two simple rules for that.

1. Trust no group with an agenda.
2. Every group has an agenda.

So - we are to trust academics to tell the truth?

Two simple rules for that.

1. Trust no group with an agenda.
2. Every group has an agenda.

NO! It can't be true. The people on SOL are a group. They have no agenda and every one of them always tells the truth.

The people on SOL are a group.

No, we are more like a horde of cats than a cohesive group. But SOL has a leader, sort of, Lazeez, and yeah, he kind of has an agenda.

The problem then is simply that far to many today are not prepared to live without such creature comforts.

Well, for certain types of disasters (including something that renders most technology inert) I'd probably be able to survive without too much difficulty. But I'd for certain want to bug out of any populated area until the bodies are all picked clean by scavengers. I don't have stockpiles of the right meds to ensure I wouldn't get sick, otherwise. Of course, there's only a couple ways I can see doing that - steal a horse (I know where to find some of them without traveling too far) or steal a old enough car that there's no electronics to have turned it into a paperweight. (Again, I know where to find any number of those.)

Being career military, I have long been prepared to live "off the grid" for extended periods of time, because I have actually been there. Try spending time in a place with temperatures over 120 degrees without power (or under 0), and you realize how much it is not needed. Sure it's nice, but not as required as a great many seem to believe.

I've done both 120F+ and under zero with no power. As you say, it's not that hard. That's also a red herring/false equivalency fallacy along with the premise that a career in military service prepares a person for a permanent grid down scenario. The 'few' in the military that could claim that are special forces types, and even then, not all of them.

Normal citizens along with military personnel, have a mental safety blanket they unknowingly cling to. In the back of their minds, they believe there is an extraction available when it all goes tits up. They call 911, medivac, get some ammo and supplies dropped in, or a fire support mission. That support is always in the back of their mind.

What happens when there is no realistic expectation of support? You live or die by your own hand and decisions with no big green machine or 911 call to bail you out.

The problem then is simply that far to many today are not prepared to live without such creature comforts.

I have read enough stories on this site that I feel I will know what to do.

That was one thing he got right. Reading about it, and living it is two very different things.

Reading about it, and living it is two very different things.

There are people who know how to live off grid, given access to tools and materials that are products of the modern industrial age.

How many people could do it if reduced to a stone age (plus salvaged steel tools/weapons they have no way to repair) hunter gatherer state and have to re-invent mining, metallurgy, and agriculture from scratch?

One good reason to keep actual paper books in a safe place for such an eventuality, though you want ones which discuss the pre-industrial processes, not modern methods.

Actually, if we a really talking a complete start over from stone age, you'd need to start not with late pre-industrial processes, but with early bronze age processes. I'm not sure you could find books today that would cover that in sufficient detail.

Technology is a ladder, you can't just start over in the middle, you need all the rungs below. Few people have any idea(and I'm not one of them) just how many rungs there are on that ladder just to get to fire and stone tools, much less bronze and iron tools.

Technology is a ladder, you can't just start over in the middle, you need all the rungs below. Few people have any idea(and I'm not one of them) just how many rungs there are on that ladder just to get to fire and stone tools, much less bronze and iron tools.

You need the technology that built the machines that built the machines that built the machines.....

All the way back to the stone tools that built the first bronze (or did they start with raw copper first?) smelter.

Some people today imagine that we can somehow preserve the knowledge to start over. But it's trying to start over in the middle of the ladder. We've forgotten too much of the early technology.

But some of the intermediate technology survives. Maybe we don't have the ability to build a forge from scratch (we need pre-made bricks) but there's forges and bricks for making them.
Yeah, many current 'blacksmiths' don't use traditional/historical type forges, but some do, and most could.
We could scavenge and maintain a higher level of technology, so long as the population doesn't drop too low, so long as some with the right skill sets survive, and so long as lawlessness and anarchy doesn't drag everyone that's left down.

But some of the intermediate technology survives. Maybe we don't have the ability to build a forge from scratch (we need pre-made bricks) but there's forges and bricks for making them.
Yeah, many current 'blacksmiths' don't use traditional/historical type forges, but some do, and most could.

How long until the pre-existing stock of bricks runs out? What happens to the smith if their forge is damaged, do they have the skills to repair it without modern equipment?

Sure any blacksmith can learn how to USE a coal forge, but how many would know how to build one from scratch?

And what if you don't have access to a ready supply of coal?

And what if you don't have access to a ready supply of coal?

Low grade steels can be worked with coked hardwoods, but otherwise your simply screwed.

Another rat in the woodpile is the various types of industrial gases needed. Oxygen being key among them. For that, you need to be able to build an oxygen concentrator at a minimum. That means vacuum pumps, compressors, and sieves (edit:molecular sieves to be specific). For that latter bit, you'll need to be able to create activated carbon for the sieve medium.

Nitrogen creation is similar to the O2 except it requires the correct clay medium for the sieves and higher grades of pumps and compressors.

If someone was thinking ahead, all that would be in place beforehand along with the knowledge to make it happen. I have only met eight other people in my life whom I believe are capable of it. As a general rule of thumb, the average person is simply screwed in that scenario.

There is a lot of old technology out there, people do not need to resort to high tech ways.

There are many ways to go about it, but none of them matter if you don't know what they are, much less how to create and use them.

But some of the intermediate technology survives.

It's not just having salvageable tech. It's being able to maintain and repair it. What happens when salvaged equipment starts to break down?

By 'intermediate tech' I meant things like coal/charcoal forges, building supplies, anvils, non-power tools, waterwheels, restored steam engines, restored antique farm equipment and vehicles...hell, I know where I could find a antique hydro plant that would likely be operable. With some of that tech, it should be possible to bootstrap up.
There's probably a few things I'm overlooking, but...

By 'intermediate tech' I meant things like coal/charcoal forges...

Yes, I understood that. But having them isn't enough long term. You have to be able to repair/replace them.

You might fit all the people in the world who know how to recover from the ore up in a single standard movie theatre. The hypothetical types who read books and watch videos only are not in their number.

Including old farmers or "living history" buffs who still knew how to use horse drawn equipment.

I have the horses and implements but in truth planting, growing, and harvesting a crop isn't that hard and most anyone can do it. What is hard is the storing your harvest so that you can either eat or more importantly replant your next crop a year latter this is the art very few will know how to do.

What is hard is the storing your harvest so that you can either eat or more importantly replant your next crop a year latter this is the art very few will know how to do.

For grains, it's pretty simple - harvest when the moisture is ~15% so it won't sprout until it's planted. If it's not that dry, you'll need to dry it, but slowly so you don't roast the grain.

The main problem is in getting the seed to germinate once planted. Corn will basically cease to be planted once existing stocks of seed run out - generally wheat and soya, the big seed companies never figured out a way to make the grain sterile.

Corn will basically cease to be planted once existing stocks of seed run out

There are heirloom varieties of corn out there if you know where to look.

There are heirloom varieties of corn out there if you know where to look.

Yeah, but other that sweet corn varieties (different than normal corn, which is mainly for HFCS/cornmeal/animal feed/making bourbon) there's not much point growing those - the yields are way low to be of much use, especially since corn is so rough on the soil.

That was the point I was trying to make. It is easy to plant and grow. Most people don't know how to store their food with out a freezer. People think I'm nuts that I never put my eggs in the refrigerator after I steal them from the chickens. I keep them in a basket on the counter away from sunlight and eggs can last about 2 weeks just don't try this with a store bought egg because once it has been refrigerated it must stay refrigerated. But that was the point I was trying to make most people just don't know how to handle or store their food. And for those who may be wondering you can test an egg buy placing it in a glass of water if the egg floats don't eat it.

I keep them in a basket on the counter away from sunlight and eggs can last about 2 weeks just don't try this with a store bought egg because once it has been refrigerated it must stay refrigerated.

From what I've read keeping eggs at room temp is common in Europe. And as far as supermarket eggs in the US not lasting as long that way, from what I've read the difference isn't prior refrigeration, its that eggs sold commercially in the US have been washed, removing some of the egg's natural protective coatings.

climates

climb mates = sex while climbing.

Farm fresh eggs - as in, you picked them from the nest yourself - are good for a long time in a COOL climate.

Or even in a warmer climate, as long as you have a cool dry place to store them. That's what root cellars were all about. Even in a relatively hot climate, below a certain depth, the earth holds a constant temperature, generally around 60F IIRC.

as far as supermarket eggs in the US not lasting as long that way, from what I've read the difference isn't prior refrigeration, its that eggs sold commercially in the US have been washed, removing some of the egg's natural protective coatings.

Yeah I read that in places as well and if just washing is true then why if you buy farm fresh eggs that have never been washed but refrigerated spoil in a day when left out at room temps ?

Yeah I read that in places as well and if just washing is true then why if you buy farm fresh eggs that have never been washed but refrigerated spoil in a day when left out at room temps ?

I've left US supermarket eggs (washed and refrigerated) out at room temp for a day and had no problems with them spoiling.

I would start with suggesting that, unless you are the farmer and gathered the eggs yourself, your unwashed but refrigerated "farm fresh" eggs that spoiled in a day were not as fresh as claimed.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/nadiaarumugam/2012/10/25/why-american-eggs-would-be-illegal-in-a-british-supermarket-and-vice-versa/?sh=2054ff0a4050

Technology is a ladder, you can't just start over in the middle, you need all the rungs below. Few people have any idea(and I'm not one of them) just how many rungs there are on that ladder just to get to fire and stone tools, much less bronze and iron tools.

True, but unless I have been badly fooled by the environmentalists, there are big piles of ready-to-use iron and steel lying all around. So, short of being transported to a different planet, "raw" materials which can be worked with fire and hammers will not be much of a problem.

Where will you get the hammers and a fire hot enough to work steel?

Many modern steels would be very difficult to work without hydraulic presses and power hammers.

I like to watch Forged in Fire. I've seen people trying to work modern high carbon steels with just hand hammers. It doesn't work that well.

Even just salvaging a lot of that steel will be next to impossible without modern power tools and/or gas cutting torches.

A water wheel can help tremendously. I know a few preserved mills and such... I don't know the locations of a water-powered triphammer offhand, but some exist. There's obvioualy be centers where different skills came into play.

And there's lot's of scrap cast iron, still. That's perfect for old-style blacksmithing.

And there's lot's of scrap cast iron, still. That's perfect for old-style blacksmithing.

Yes, but a lot of it is in big pieces, from old industrial equipment. Salvaging it without power tools would not be easy.

A single trip to a junk yard could probably pull in a ton or more in cast iron, with nothing more than a jack and hand tools needed.

Bolts and such on old junk cars can get rust welded in place. I am not convinced that salvaging bits of iron from old cars with just hand tools will be as easy as you seem to think.

You know what the easiest way is to undo a stuck nut? Break the bolt. Only when you're worried about keeping the piece intact is it gonna be a lot of effort.
And cast is brittle. A good sledgehammer (and goggles) and you can break some big pieces.

Working steel without powered equipment is definitely harder, but it can be done. As you've noted, temperature of the fire is a key element. To solve that problem,know where a source of coal is, and learn how to coke that coal.

Coking is simply pyrolysis of the coal. Pyrolysis is heating the material up to the combustion point in a near or actual oxygen free environment. The volatile organics off gas leaving the coke behind.

Those gases btw were known as town gas, and with a touch of cleaning up, can be used for other things. Such as cutting up larger chunks of metal.

Wood gas is the same process and has been/can be used for powering an internal combustion engine. During WW2, it was not unusual to see farmers with a wood gas converted tractor. There were a few cars with it as well.

How many people could do it if reduced to a stone age (plus salvaged steel tools/weapons they have no way to repair) hunter gatherer state and have to re-invent mining, metallurgy, and agriculture from scratch?

One of my degrees is in metallurgy/materials science. I grew up in an area where mines were common and spent a summer before college working in a coal mine to build up some cash. I later learned more in that regards during my further education at the mines in Colorado. Those things I could do. Starting agriculture from scratch? I'd probably starve if it was the only way to feed myself. Growing up on a farm does not necessarily a farmer make.

When you grow with nothing, you learn to make everything with nothing. Things got a lot better for us around the time I turned ten, but those early lessons were never forgotten.

As for how many could do any of it? There is no way to quote a legitimate number on that. A WAG would be maybe 1:1,000.

That was one thing he got right. Reading about it, and living it is two very different things.

You took the bait.

What bait would that be?

CDC analysis of death certificates found twice as many cold related deaths as heat related deaths in the U.S.

Try finding the numbers for Europe. Air conditioning is practically standard in the US, compared to somewhere like France. And old folks in Europe are less likely to be living in the air conditioned warehousing that US geezers get dumped in, and instead tend to die during heat waves.

May I suggest you enter "death toll from cold snap" and peruse the articles. Then enter "death toll from heat wave" and do the same.

Make sure you use DuckDuckGo to avoid Google's meddling with search results to achieve their desired political objective.

One of the articles on the cold snap effects centered on Europe. The data is out there. It's just a question of:
a. Do I trust the numbers, and
b. Can I put preconceived notions aside and objectively analyze.

That's pretty much the case for any analytical effort anyway. So I'm sure it shouldn't be a problem.

Carl, you ever lived near one of the Great Lakes? The 90%+ humidity makes it pretty insufferable without AC. And I mentioned France specifically because during heat waves, they usually have more fatalities than the entire US.
The southern states, the heat will kill via dehydration...but with 85 degrees and 95% humidity, it's tough to breathe. And the body just can't regulate temperature without evaporative cooling (from sweat) so hyperthermia sets in faster in higher humidity. So long as you stay hydrated, low humidity and high temps are okay. Yet in a disaster scenario, staying hydrated in a arid location is gonna be tough if you aren't a prepper.

110 miles further north than Minnesota.

Winnipeg is about that. Their record high temp was, IIRC, 130? At least 125. I do recall that the day it happened, Death Valley peaked at one degree cooler.
Of course, Winnipeg is pretty arid. So the heat wasn't so oppressive, but you needed to stay hydrated. And you didn't go outside in the winter unless you really needed to and/or you were crazy and/or you were prepared for the cold.

Winnipeg at 125F? How so when the measured record high for Canada is 113F? Sometime back in the 30s, I believe.

Even so, 113 is pretty impressive that far north. Wonder what it is for Alaska?

The all-time high temperature recorded in Alaska is 100 F at Fort Yukon set in 1915.

Wow. Alaska actually reached triple digits? Hard to fathom.

Winnipeg at 125F? How so when the measured record high for Canada is 113F? Sometime back in the 30s, I believe.

Technically, it was in the 50s, but using the fucked up scale.
(And it may have been a unofficial temperature, because it was recorded at Portage and Main - a giant square of blacktop with next to no shade or air movement during the summer, rather than at a airport.)

I thought I should check. After all, who can believe the media? Here's a graph from the National Weather Service: https://www.weather.gov/hazstat/

https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Which-Kills-More-People-Extreme-Heat-or-Extreme-Cold

On the other hand data from the CDC goes the other way around.

CDC's take: cold is the bigger killer

In contrast, the CDC's National Center for Health Statistics Compressed Mortality Database, which is based on death certificates, indicates the reverse—about twice as many people die of "excessive cold" conditions in a given year than of "excessive heat." According to a 2014 study by the CDC, approximately 1,300 deaths per year from 2006 to 2010 were coded as resulting from extreme cold exposure, and 670 deaths per year from extreme heat. However, both of these numbers are likely to be underestimated. According to the 2016 study, The Impacts of Climate Change on Human Health in the United States, "It is generally accepted that direct attribution underestimates the number of people who die from temperature extremes." For example, during the 1995 Chicago heat wave, only 465 death certificates had heat as a contributing cause, while excess mortality figures showed that close to 700 people died as a result of the heat (Figure 2).

One problem with the CDC's data

Perhaps, but on the other side, death rates are higher in winter generally. If you compare seasonally adjusted death rates to isolated weather events, you are potentially ignoring a lot of deaths due to cold.

Old person falls on icy patch of sidewalk, bounces head off pavement, dies from injury. That's not a death caused by cold, it's a death caused by accidental injury which the weather played a role in.

And the majority of people freezing to death would be fine if they'd been at home, without heat or power, because they'd have had more clothing available and less wind exposure. However, people die from heat in their homes, because there's little you can do other than reducing the temperature or cooling yourself in a large liquid heatsink (pool, lake, river, pond, a bathtub could work if you could fill it and you were the only one to need it...)

Yeah, obviously kids left in vehicles in extreme weather don't last long. Heat kills quicker (since kids are usually bundled up and it's easier to revive frozen than overheated.)

Old person falls on icy patch of sidewalk, bounces head off pavement, dies from injury. That's not a death caused by cold

It falls under the legal principle known as "butt fur."

Deaths due to cold certainly isn't the whole reason winter deaths are higher, but they are certainly part of why winter deaths.

Flu no. Out on a cold rainy night and end up with pneumonia due to exposure, yes I would call that due to cold.

As to what's winter, as I understand it they use the astronomical definition for distinguishing summer/winter deaths.

Even with out AC, extreme cold kill far more people than extreme heat.

Far more idiots. (If we're talking about people at home. People who find themselves in much colder than expected locations without sufficient clothing... that's another story.)

But assuming you have enough clothing, you can layer up more and more until you're going to survive. With heat, once you've gotten naked, there's really nothing more you can do that doesn't require power or running water. (If you have a shaded pool or pond, and could stay mostly submerged for hours at a time, that could work.)
But the dead bodies and disease would be massive killers.

So the government told the power companies that the power lines had to be underground within a few years.

That actually happened, and since then the storms haven't impacted power like they used to.

There's a balance here.

Underground lines are less vulnerable to weather damage, but they cost far more to install and repair when you do have a cable fail.

Underground lines may be great for Sweden, but they'd not be so great for earthquake prone areas.

Re money, burying services costs more for the company (although not as much more as you'd think) but less for the nation, which has to consider the total cost of an outage on business and people.

Re earthquakes, actually underground cables and pipes for other services survive better than most armchair guesses. There is interesting data from eg Christchurch where the even the type of cable turns out to be an important factor.

Trivia: the very high voltage links are still typically above ground - it has proved extremely difficult and expensive to bury those because of the welds etc.

In an earthquake, no cable or pipe is going to survive earth movement along a fault that is perpendicular to the direction of the cable/pipe run.

You're right, such earth movement will cause cables to break. But most earth quakes don't have such extreme earth movement or at least only in limited areas. We have regular minor earth quakes in the top area of the Netherlands but it's rare that it causes underground lines to break. Even if it does, that's a few underground lines to repair. Have a tornado go over the same area and with above ground lines everything is ruined. See Carl's original post.

Trivia fact: even if a main line breaks that doesn't necessarily mean the power goes off. It's quite possible power is still coming from "the other end of the line". Most of our phone and internet cable-nets have this same backup feature, some multiple times over, to ensure that the area that will possibly fail is as small as possible.

In an earthquake, no cable or pipe is going to survive earth movement along a fault that is perpendicular to the direction of the cable/pipe run.

The magnitude of the quake matters too. I wonder if that Christchurch data is mostly weaker quakes (each whole number on the eq magnitude scale is an order of magnitude change in strength).

and in terms of movement being perpendicular to the cable run, LA in particular is riddled with small faults that create vertical movement.

Trivia: the very high voltage links are still typically above ground - it has proved extremely difficult and expensive to bury those because of the welds etc.

The same here in the Netherlands, everything including all phone and internet cables are underground except the high voltage lines. We have a very reliable electricity net. I can't remember when the last outage was. In a small village close to me it was off for a week because a helicopter flew into the high voltage lines. It's possible here because we never have earth quakes or only minor ones in the north-east.
The best result of this: no ugly poles and cables running everywhere.

So the government told the power companies that the power lines had to be underground within a few years.

Sweden is 173,860 square miles.
Oklahoma, Kansas, and Nebraska are 230,097 square miles.

About the same population between Sweden (the entire country), and us here in Oklahoma and the two states to the north (combined).

Mind you, new construction typically has underground lines, because they take that into account when doing the development. My house was built in 1942, and so was a lot of the area, because of Tinker AFB.

Oh, and I'm able to be online using my laptop because I'm the 'consultant' and sitting in an empty office at the AL where my wife works, so I can do my online studying.

I am surprised that you have a working stove-top; it must be an older version. In today's marketplace, gas stoves require electricity to operate the shutoff valves that prevent the gas from flowing in case there is no electricity to generate the spark that ignites the gas when you turn the burners on.

I have a stove with electric ignition. However in the event of a power outage, I can light it with a match.

Yeah, Blizzard of '78. 36" of snow, with 12' drifts. We had a kerosene heater and Coleman camping stove. We were snowed into house for a full week, with four days of no power.

Being from the west coast we didn't know about heat tape had to be on the water pipes. Going to the bathroom outside in snow is no fun.

And we all know there's no shortage of incompetence.

Except on SOL, of course.

willing to get our hands dirty."

That future has probably passed. Covid 19 requires us to wash our hands frequently, in part so they won't get dirty.

"The future belongs to the few of us still willing to get our hands dirty."

That could also be a line from The Godfather...

Same with a dairy cow that missus breeding twice they get a free trip to McDonalds. Do you want fries with that ?

Hold on here just a minute.

I'm no farm boy, but I'm pretty sure a cow breeding with another missus cow ain't going to work all that well.

nope when a cow is in heat and they are lucky you place them in a field with a bull whos life in spent doing nothing but eating and breeding. The unlucky ones that are in heat gets a semen straw.

A semen straw is frozen sperm in the size and shape of a drinking straw. You place the straw on the end of an insertion stick lift the tail and well just use you imagination.

A semen straw is frozen sperm in the size and shape of a drinking straw. You place the straw on the end of an insertion stick lift the tail and well just use you imagination.

So, it must be fun when someone asks you "what did you do today?"

So, it must be fun when someone asks you "what did you do today?"

"Knocked up a cow" would certainly turn heads as an answer. :)

I think people would rather here that then when we neuter pigs, sheep, and goats.

What, you don't produce steers?

Have a vet that does the cows and horses to comply with insurance guidelines due to the cash value of the animal.

Makes sense. Never really discussed that with the cattlemen I knew.

Why? Are some afraid of rubber bands?

They are afraid that their woman will get ideas and use the rubber band on them...

We still do it the old way with a knife so your damn right about being afraid of the women taking after Lorena Bobbitt.

No, do it the old way with a knife.

Not me I hire I just put them in a neighbors field with a very fat lazy happy bull. But the real question is who has the job to collect the semen to make the straws ? If memory serves Mike Rowe did a segment on his TV show Dirty Jobs but with horses on the collection and using the straws.

A semen straw is frozen sperm in the size and shape of a drinking straw. You place the straw on the end of an insertion stick lift the tail and well just use you imagination.

I read somewhere that William Shatner fought tooth and nail to retain all the frozen sperm from his prized horses during his divorce. It gives whole new meanings to "the final frontier" and "horse whisperer" don't you think?

prize semen straws can bring in a large amount of money. It isn't uncommon for them to reach prices of over $100k.

I wouldn't be surprised if semen straws from show champion stallions from certain breeds went into the millions.

I did wonder what they thought all that front metal was on there for.

To look cool. Duh!

I did wonder what they thought all that front metal was on there for.

Not sure, but I think it may be the same reason pimps wear grillz.

That divide between incompetent, ignorant, entitled people vs. the rest of us is sure to cause major problems when the power goes out for an extended amount of time.

True. All the people on SOL are geniuses and all city slickers, by definition, are dumber than a fence post. When the power goes out in a city, the rural folks should be there to show them how to cope.

When the power goes out in a city, the rural folks should be there to show them how to cope.

Nope.

If and when that happens, any citiot that tries making it to the country is gonna find that, well, they're vermin and country folk tend to get rid of vermin when possible.

If and when that happens, any citiot that tries making it to the country is gonna find that, well, they're vermin and country folk tend to get rid of vermin when possible.

Not only that, the city folk are all arrogant and know-it-alls and ignorant; they talk funny and call country-folk names, like rednecks and bumpkins. Aren't you glad that nobody on SOL would do that?

they talk funny and call country-folk names, like redneck

That ain't exactly name-calling. We are rednecks.

If you don't have a personal experience where you were present where someone said, "Hey, y'all, watch this!" or "Hold my beer!"

Pretty sure I've said both...

Remember, we're not Crackers...

Unless you are cowboy (okay, cowperson to be PC) from Georgia, you can not be a Cracker.

ETA I guess being from Florida might work as well.

Florida

My wife was from Jacksonville. Northern Florida is basically South Georgia.

If she was a Cracker, that might explain so much.

If you don't have a personal experience where you were present where someone said, "Hey, y'all, watch this!" or "Hold my beer!" - or WERE that person - then you're just an urban cowboy.

No need to chase around cows to witness or say such a thing. You don't even need to be American for that matter.

Not only that, the city folk are all arrogant and know-it-alls and ignorant; they talk funny and call country-folk names, like rednecks and bumpkins. Aren't you glad that nobody on SOL would do that?

I love sarcasm.

rednecks

The Washington DC NFL team is looking for something to replace "Redskins" as their mascot/team name. Rednecks might work.

If they want something representative of the area their team is located, the should go with something like "Crooks".

The Washington DC NFL team is looking for something to replace "Redskins" as their mascot/team name. Rednecks might work.

That was my suggestion years ago when the issue first started being mentioned.

Nothing like having a team's official motto being "Hold my beer and watch this."

Nothing like having a team's official motto being "Hold my beer and watch this."

It's should be "Here, hold my beer. This is gonna be cool!".

That that would be funny as heck, but Washington DC is the wrong team for it.

It would work for the Tennessee Titans... may even motivate them to play better than they have been.

Tennessee

What did Tennessee? What Arkansaw.

"In 1881, the state's General Assembly passed a resolution declaring that the state's name should be spelled "Arkansas" but pronounced "Arkansaw".

all city slickers, by definition, are dumber than a fence post.

Well, you said it, I didn't. But most unbiased observers would agree that a lot of city slickers act as if they are dumber than a box of rocks. That doesn't mean they aren't intelligent, just that they aren't able to demonstrate or apply that intelligence to cope with real life events.

The problem is, almost everyone in the world has the following definition of the term 'common sense': "To come to the same conclusion that anyone with my knowledge and life experience would."

Citiots just don't have most of the knowledge or life experience that country boys do. And most rednecks don't have all the information they'd need to thrive in certain parts of a city.

Put a caveman with an IQ of 200 in a modern nuclear power plant, and he'll be more likely to cause a meltdown than make it run.

Application of intelligence requires an underlying experience, and or training, base from which to build from. Without it, the person is unlikely to succeed.

A highly intelligent person can sometimes succeed without those fundamentals on a limited basis, but the law or large numbers is against them without copious volumes of sheer dumb luck. The rare variants that have high levels intuition coupled with high intelligence will usually get by in any environment, albeit with some very rough experiences at first.

The argument of city verses country folks has little to do with intelligence outside those specific caveats.