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Write What's Entertaining, But ...

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

One rule frequently expounded by writing experts is to write what's entertaining rather than strictly accurate. An accurate police procedural, for example, would be so boring that almost nobody would read it.

On the other hand, readers love to nit-pick when they find inaccuracies in stories. Choose the wrong calibre bullet for a gun, for example, and you can expect a very heavy postbag from gun-porn fans.

In the story I'm working on, I'm aware that I'm writing about things of which I have minuscule knowledge, and in some cases I'm deliberately writing things I know to be inaccurate because I think it makes for a more entertaining story for the readers.

Should I attempt to defang the nit-pickers by warning in advance that the story contains lots of inaccuracies? I've even seen a few authors tackle the issue by stating that readers should consider the story to be set in a fantasy world very similar to ours.

(The SOL fantasy tag obvious isn't applicable because it means High Fantasy ie elves, goblins etc.)

AJ

AmigaClone ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

I would use the term 'parallel universe' instead of fantasy world to describe a place that is similar to ours, but has a few noticeable differences.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@AmigaClone

Good point.

Unfortunately there's no 'parallel universe' tag and I'm not sure there'd be much author demand for it.

AJ

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

Unfortunately there's no 'parallel universe' tag and I'm not sure there'd be much author demand for it.

I've already posted a couple of general 'Fantasy' stories (Literal Fantasy, rather than D&D themes), so I'm very interested in this. While my Demonic Issues did we'll anyway, since the story tags managed to accurately target my audience (and it was still vaguely 'hard' sci-fi), but my next book is entirely a Children's Fantasy, though one that addresses very adult issues (or as the story's tag line reads: "A Fantasy Story for Disillusioned Adults").

Rather than cataloguing the story for issues which change mid-stream, or that only happen later in the story, the central "Fantasy" tag is more essential than ever.

But generally, literary Fantasy means stories told that don't fit within our current reality (i.e. teleportation, telepathy or extra-sensory perception), though not necessarily handsome vampires and competitive, world-famous vampires.

Surely there's still a place for those on SOL?

Argon ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

On the other hand, readers love to nit-pick when they find inaccuracies in stories. Choose the wrong calibre bullet for a gun, for example, and you can expect a very heavy postbag from gun-porn fans.

On the other hand, if the protagonist (male) is able to satisfy five women in the course of three hours without any pharmacological help and with copious amounts of ejaculate, people accept it. Ergo: readers (and writers) have more knowledge about guns than about sex.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Argon

On the other hand, if the protagonist (male) is able to satisfy five women in the course of three hours without any pharmacological help and with copious amounts of ejaculate, people accept it. Ergo: readers (and writers) have more knowledge about guns than about sex.

Or they are more willing to accept sex fantasies in stories than they are gun fantasies.

joyR ๐Ÿšซ

@Argon

Ergo: readers (and writers) have more knowledge about guns than about sex.

Perhaps they 'get off' on guns because their only other practical sexual experience is masturbation..?

Think about it. A world class sniper would take all day to move stealthily into their chosen hotel room, put on a condom and then wait...

:)

Replies:   Pixy  Argon
Pixy ๐Ÿšซ

@joyR

A male sniper wouldn't get up close, he'd ejaculate from afar...

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Pixy

A male sniper wouldn't get up close, he'd ejaculate from afar...

I could inseminate you from Stuttgart und still create ze proper effect.

Argon ๐Ÿšซ

@joyR

Perhaps they 'get off' on guns because their only other practical sexual experience is masturbation..?

At least, the gun stays hard, and a guy can shoot numerous time. It's like being multiorgasmic. That makes gun porn an expression of clitoris envy.

Reluctant_Sir ๐Ÿšซ

@Argon

Ergo: readers (and writers) have more knowledge about guns than about sex.

Maybe... but for me (I like to think so, anyway) it is that a firearm is a distinct item with very distinct features and structure. It is not variable, it is not fungible and certainly not subject to the emotional state of whoever is stroking it.

A revolver is not a Glock, or an AR-15, or a pump shotgun or a long-distance rifle. Each have peculiarities that anyone familiar with the weapon will know.

Ron Jeremy has much more impressive equipment than I do and can probably do tricks with his prick that I couldn't copy.

At the range, we have the same equipment, with the same restrictions and the same targets et etc.... so he should'nt be able to click the safety off on his revolver when he checks the clip to see how many rounds he has left...

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Reluctant_Sir

it is not fungible

I am unsure what you think fungible means here, but I'm pretty sure it's not what it really means.

Saying it's not variable and not fungible in the same sentence is a contradiction.

Money is fungible. Every dollar is just like every other dollar they are identical (in the attributes that matter) and interchangeable.

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Argon

On the other hand, if the protagonist (male) is able to satisfy five women in the course of three hours without any pharmacological help and with copious amounts of ejaculate

Five women in three hours sounds feasible. The copious amounts of ejaculate definitely isn't.

There might be an ickle bit of personal experience behind that opinion (or should it be 'icky bit'?)

AJ

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

There might be an ickle bit of personal experience behind that opinion (or should it be 'icky bit'?)

Ha-ha. I turn those expectations on their head in my newest (not yet finished) story. He takes a drug which gives him erections which last hours, which he discounts as dangerous, given the circumstances, but the discrepancy becomes a central issue in the story later on (reflecting his mental state).

Sometimes authors are just too lazy to worry about details, sometimes focusing on details can derail a story, but other times, the details ARE the story. In essence, his constant erections are the porn-equivalent of Pavlov's Gun. ;) It's meant to stand out like a smoking gun!

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

In the story I'm working on, I'm aware that I'm writing about things of which I have minuscule knowledge, and in some cases I'm deliberately writing things I know to be inaccurate because I think it makes for a more entertaining story for the readers.

How important are the details to the story? Can you gloss over them with vague generalities?

Take the guns and caliber issue. For semi-auto pistols the most common calibers are 9mm and .45, for revolvers, it would be .357, .38 and .45. As long as you avoid mentioning a specific make/model it would be hard to call you wrong. Another approach here would be to invent a make/model that doesn't exist in the real world.

Should I attempt to defang the nit-pickers by warning in advance that the story contains lots of inaccuracies?

I doubt that would work.

I've even seen a few authors tackle the issue by stating that readers should consider the story to be set in a fantasy world very similar to ours.

1. Unless you are actually doing a high fantasy setting, the terms alternate reality and/or alternate history would be better.

2. As a reader, I would find such a direct statement addressed to the readers for the purpose of glossing over inaccurate details annoying. If it's going to be an alternate reality setting, that needs to be baked into the story itself.

The upfront statement is okay, as long as the story itself doesn't ignore it.

awnlee_jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

How important are the details to the story? Can you gloss over them with vague generalities?

Take the guns and caliber issue.

The answer is not very, I hope. Certain things have to happen in professional settings for the story to progress, but I've taken liberties with the professional processes, as anyone with detailed experience will notice.

To my horror, a search identified two occurrences of the string 'gun' in my story so far. The story provides no proof that either occurrence is instantiated by a real weapon. So by mentioning gun-porn, I've rather shot this topic in the foot :(

AJ

Replies:   joyR  Vincent Berg
joyR ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee_jawking

So by mentioning gun-porn, I've rather shot this topic in the foot :(

Guns don't kill topics. People talking about guns kill topics...

:)

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@joyR

Guns don't kill topics. People talking about guns kill topics...

In this forum, no good topic goes unslaughtered!

Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee_jawking

The story provides no proof that either occurrence is instantiated by a real weapon. So by mentioning gun-porn, I've rather shot this topic in the foot :(

You mean like "gun shy", or "half-cocked" or even "gun-happy". Using a word doesn't classify a work as gun-porn, just as describing someone's penis doesn't make a story pornographic.

Details matter, but not for every story, and not in equal measure every time. If it helps define the character, then include it. If it doesn't, or rather, it paints your characters in a awkward, artificial nature, then drop it. Simple enough.

Maybe we need i-Tags for stories, as in -i (not) gun-porn" or "iErotica". Of course, that's assuming that Apple hasn't already registered the name.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Vincent Berg

You mean like "gun shy", or "half-cocked" or even "gun-happy".

* POTENTIAL SPOILER ALERT *

If it helps, below are direct quotes from my story as is:

Mrs Allardyce shook her head. "If anyone breaks in here, they'll have to answer to my shotgun."

"Are you any good with a gun?" asked Hector.

"I've never tried," I admitted.

Definitely not a gun porn story!

AJ

Replies:   joyR
joyR ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

Definitely not a gun porn story!

Gun porn would be a .44 Magnum taking a shot at a .38 LadySmith hoping she was a Mannlicher...

Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

If it's going to be an alternate reality setting, that needs to be baked into the story itself.

I agree, the 'fantasy element' must be included in the basic story description, so readers know going in the type of story it is, rather than relying os a search time to discover what sort of story it is.

Though, surely there's room for more than one (outdated) type of fantasy story. As always, the Fantasy field is continually evolving and changing, and locking the entire genre into a single sub-category seems highly misguided (no offense, Lazeez).

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Vincent Berg

Though, surely there's room for more than one (outdated) type of fantasy story.

I would agree in general, but I also think that a broadly defined generic "fantasy" tag would be largely useless. We would need to get Lazeez to agree to add more fantasy sub-category tags.

Maybe a Fantasy grouping with High Fantasy, Sword & Sorcery (Conan as an exemplar), Fairy Tail and maybe Science Fantasy (for those who want to be picky about Star Wars type stories vs hard science fiction)

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Alternatively write Elvis into your story. Elvis is the singular of Elves, hence the story qualifies as High Fantasy ;)

AJ

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

Elvis is the singular of Elves, hence the story qualifies as High Fantasy ;)

Nope. That kind of elves would be fairy tail not high fantasy. :P

Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

Alternatively write Elvis into your story. Elvis is the singular of Elves, hence the story qualifies as High Fantasy ;)

Elvis is in the floating eyes of the beholder. After all, Elf Is as Elvis Says.

Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Maybe a Fantasy grouping with High Fantasy, Sword & Sorcery (Conan as an exemplar), Fairy Tail and maybe Science Fantasy (for those who want to be picky about Star Wars type stories vs hard science fiction)

That's why I apologized to Lazeez. Given the current category setup (i.e. anti-squick), it's impossible to accurately describe stories by genre. Most of SOL's categories are purely sexual in nature, so the other SOL sites are easier to catalogue/classify.

They're ideal for authors who write for specific subgroups (ie. kinks), but it has trouble adapting to traditional literary categories.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Vincent Berg

Most of SOL's categories are purely sexual in nature, so the other SOL sites are easier to catalogue/classify.

They're ideal for authors who write for specific subgroups (ie. kinks), but it has trouble adapting to traditional literary categories.

If Lazeez was less reluctant about adding new tags, I don't think it would be that difficult to adapt.

The current category search shows 14 groupings of which 10 are explicitly sexual and 4 are not.

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

If Lazeez was less reluctant about adding new tags, I don't think it would be that difficult to adapt.

The current category search shows 14 groupings of which 10 are explicitly sexual and 4 are not.

If anything, it would be helpful to have separate squick and genre categories, as one is used for porn searches, while the other deals with literary categories (and yes, Virginia, the two can and do overlap).

Though how'd you'd implement that, I'm not the one dictating the rules.

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

@Vincent Berg

Fantasy

"Fanta is available in a wide variety of bright, bubbly and instantly refreshing flavors: Orange, Grape, Pineapple, Strawberry, Grapefruit, Wild Cherry, Mango, Apple, Peach, Berry, Fruit Punch, Green Apple, Blue Raspberry, Cherry Limeade and Kiwi-Strawberry."

Fanta C is probably one of the Cherry flavors.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@richardshagrin

Fanta C is probably one of the Cherry flavors.

Fanta Sea is sushi flavor. :)

Replies:   madnige
madnige ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Fanta Sea is sushi flavor. :)

Oooh, bearded clam - my favourite! :)

Reluctant_Sir ๐Ÿšซ

I wrote a long post but deleted it after some consideration. I want no part in derailing the thread because someone else's understanding doesn't match mine on the use of a single word.

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

in some cases I'm deliberately writing things I know to be inaccurate because I think it makes for a more entertaining story for the readers.

In the foreword (notice the spelling) in my current novel, I state: "I attempted to be true to the time period, but this is not non-fiction. I take liberties with the sexuality of the men and women at the time. Whether it's true or not is not important. Call it poetic license to make the story interesting (something else I learned from Hollywood)."

Readers want an interesting story.

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

Thanks,

AJ

Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

I take liberties with the sexuality of the men and women at the time. Whether it's true or not is not important. Call it poetic license to make the story interesting (something else I learned from Hollywood).

In my currently posting story, I go into detail about various FTL (Faster Than Light) techniques, discussing the effect on time-dilation, yet throughout the story, the tale describes instantaneous quantum communications (a real thing), simply so someone on one planet won't have to wait ten or twenty years before responding to what happened in the previous chapter.

You tie your story to the atmosphere by painting necessary details, but if those details get in the way of the story, you subtly shove them back under the carpet and continue on as if nothing happened.

The science described in accurate and true, but if it runs the story aground, rather than tossing the entire story, you simply do what you gotta.

ystokes ๐Ÿšซ

Hell just look at dual writer's Chuck stories where he takes care of over 10 women in one night.

red61544 ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

Should I attempt to defang the nit-pickers

Awnlee, write your story! You own the story and are simply loaning it to readers. There are always a number of those readers who find the most enjoyment, not in the story, but in finding fault. Label it "fiction" and, if you choose to respond to the nitpickers, point that label out to them. I read somewhere that the reason James Thurber wrote "The Secret Life of Walter Mitty" was to tweak the nitpicking critics. So just tell them "poketa-poketa" and ignore their remarks.

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@red61544

Awnlee, write your story!

Sadly for the readers, that's what I'm doing!

Thank you for the advice. The story is fun rather than great and I want to be up-front to potential readers.

AJ

Replies:   shaddoth1
shaddoth1 ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

give me a fun story over a great one anyday

Shad

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@shaddoth1

give me a fun story over a great one anyday

I've just seen the 11 ratings 'The Axeman' has amassed on Bookapy. From what I've read on SOL so far, it thoroughly deserves them. But some of the other stories on Bookapy are good too, although their lack of ratings implies otherwise.

I think Lazeez has a short-term (hopefully) problem to solve :(

In the long-term, provided custom supports it, I reckon sorting by ratings and popularity would be useful.

AJ

Replies:   shaddoth1
shaddoth1 ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

I noticed that too. And am worried about that too.
Although I can't complain too much, my fans rock!

Shad

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

@red61544

You own the story and are simply loaning it to readers.

Like Taverns just loan the beer they sell, it comes back at the latrines. Like Republicans they Go Pee. And tell voters "You're a nation."

Banadin ๐Ÿšซ

It's all true, give it take a lie or two.

richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

I am not clear about the relationships between/among revolve, revolver, revolving and revolution. I suspect the same words may have different meanings.

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@richardshagrin

I am not clear about the relationships between/among revolve, revolver, revolving and revolution. I suspect the same words may have different meanings.

The name "revolver" was selected to designate the "revolving" chamber as early pistols (in the mid-1800s), allowing multiple shots without having to reload each time. It was revolutionary at the time, and thus the name stuck, even once ALL pistols had recycling stock, whether they 'revolve' or not.

Tw0Cr0ws ๐Ÿšซ

I prefer to read entertaining stories, but when a writer puts in something I know is utter nonsense it takes me out of the story for a while.

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Tw0Cr0ws

I prefer to read entertaining stories, but when a writer puts in something I know is utter nonsense it takes me out of the story for a while.

Thanks, that's what I'm worried about.

AJ

Replies:   shaddoth1
shaddoth1 ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

Thanks, that's what I'm worried about.

Me too.

Shad

Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@Tw0Cr0ws

I prefer to read entertaining stories, but when a writer puts in something I know is utter nonsense it takes me out of the story for a while.

Except, when readers Google something referenced, then criticize you (or at least question) you for not doing precisely what the one reference they read detailed. That happened to me recently, for a story I'd written a while back concerning FTL travel. Apparently the currently predominate 'conceptualization' is that you 'shrink' the space ahead of you, while 'expanding' it behind. But since the ship never leaves the enclosing 'bubble', whether the expand first or second doesn't matter to the technique used (and of course, my story predated that particular author's conjectures).

I don't mind arguing details, in fact I enjoy it a great deal, but just because it's in an article doesn't mean it's the end-all and be-all in the entire field. (That's not an attack on the person raising the point, only an illustration of how readers typically form opinions.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Vincent Berg

If the train track is 60 miles to your destination and your train travels at 60 miles per hour, the journey would take an hour.

If you shrink space in front of the train so there's only 30 miles of track to your destination, the journey would take half an hour.

If you expand space in front of the train so there's 120 miles of track to your destination, the journey would take two hours.

If you use an improbability drive, the train might get you there instantaneously but inside out ;)

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

That's not how it is supposed to work.

The idea is that you are creating a distortion wave in space time, the distortion wave "pushes" the ship forward.

The distortion wave not being a physical object isn't bound by the laws of relativity. And since the space around the ship is moving rather than the ship itself, the ship's velocity remains zero for purposes of relativity even though it appears to go from point A to point B faster than the speed of light.

Replies:   joyR
joyR ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

the space around the ship is moving rather than the ship itself

So are you saying that the space around the ship travels from A to B faster than the speed of light.? If so, what happens if there is an asteroid in the path between A and B.? Does the 'space' collide with it? Is the asteroid absorbed into that space?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@joyR

If so, what happens if there is an asteroid in the path between A and B.?

This is something that has been put out there as a theory for FTL travel by real physicists.

I don't pretend to understand all the details of it.

As I understand it I would think that there are several possibilities. Exactly which one applies may depend on many factors including the mass and velocity of the obstacle.

A big factor is does this work more like Star Wars hyperdrive where you plot a course, go into FTL and have to hope for the best when you drop back out, or more like Star Trek warp drive where you can see the outside universe and maneuver around obstacles on the fly.

Assuming more like hyperdrive or just fail to see the obstacle in time.

1. The distortion wave pushes the asteroid out of the way.

2. The object gets pulled into the distortion wave and the space/time bubble around the ship, at this point collision with the ship itself is probably inevitable and likely catastrophic.

3. An obstacle large enough to have significant gravity might disrupt the distortion wave dropping the ship back into normal space/time.

4. By this theory, the ship exists in an isolated bubble of space/time while traveling using the posited method. It's possible that it simply won't interact with anything in normal space/time while doing so, and the only point at which a collision is possible/relevant is when dropping out of FTL back into normal space time.

Replies:   joyR  Not_a_ID
joyR ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Assuming more like hyperdrive or just fail to see the obstacle in time.

I think you missed option 5. In the event of a collision the outcome is catastrophic. At FTL speed the ability to sense objects in your path in time to adjust course is.... zero?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@joyR

At FTL speed the ability to sense objects in your path in time to adjust course is.... zero?

No, I mostly think if we could actually build a Star Trek type warp drive, that an ability to create some kind of radar like sensor system that would operate at FTL speeds and distances would not be implausible.

Replies:   joyR
joyR ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

No, I mostly think if we could actually build a Star Trek type warp drive, that an ability to create some kind of radar like sensor system that would operate at FTL speeds and distances would not be implausible.

Sure, provided whatever 'radar like sensor' projects a 'beam' that travels at 2 x FTL, because to 'read' it you need the return signal...

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@joyR

Probably more like 10x. The Star Trek universe has FTL communications using "subspace radio" that travels at least an order of magnitude faster than the maximum velocity of a starship.

Replies:   joyR
joyR ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

The Star Trek universe has FTL communications using "subspace radio" that travels at least an order of magnitude faster than the maximum velocity of a starship.

Thank you..!! I needed a good reason to giggle and somehow seeing a fictional TV series used as if it were fact... Well, thanks.. :)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@joyR

Thank you..!! I needed a good reason to giggle and somehow seeing a fictional TV series used as if it were fact... Well, thanks.. :)

None of what we have been discussing on this thread regarding FTL travel could be called fact.

Not_a_ID ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

A big factor is does this work more like Star Wars hyperdrive where you plot a course, go into FTL and have to hope for the best when you drop back out, or more like Star Trek warp drive where you can see the outside universe and maneuver around obstacles on the fly.

It's a bit more complicated for Star Trek. That's actually one of the normal use cases for the Deflector dish, it will (somehow) attempt to "move" objects out of the Ship's path of travel as it is moving at warp speed, obviously there is a size limit, at which point they'd alter course slightly(because their FTL sub-space scanners detected the object) and go around it instead.

Tw0Cr0ws ๐Ÿšซ

I prefer to read entertaining stories, but when a writer puts in something I know is utter nonsense it takes me out of the story for a while.

Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

One rule frequently expounded by writing experts is to write what's entertaining rather than strictly accurate.

I watched an episode last night on Netflix's "All American" series. The coach locks himself in his office at the school. He looks through the glass in the door and sees his keys in the lock on the outside.

That's like locking yourself inside your car. Unless it's one of those Victorian era keyhole doors, you don't need a key to lock/unlock the door from the inside.

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

That's like locking yourself inside your car. Unless it's one of those Victorian era keyhole doors, you don't need a key to lock/unlock the door from the inside.

In most areas of the US it would be a building code violation for a commercial/public building to have doors that have to be unlocked to be opened from the inside.

Just as glaring in that passage, unless it's an all glass door rather than a solid door with a window in the upper half, it shouldn't be possible to see the keys in the lock.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

A plastic door company tried to sell me on the virtues of a front door that locked when slammed shut, and then needed a key to open it from the outside but not from the inside. However, if you had a key, you could double-lock it from the inside, necessitating a key to unlock it from the inside too.

Bearing in mind how I use my current front door, one of those Victorian era keyhole doors that needs a key to lock/unlock the door from the inside as well as the outside, I realised I would be too stupid to operate the plastic door and would constantly be getting locked out :(

AJ

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

A plastic door company tried to sell me on the virtues of a front door that locked when slammed shut, and then needed a key to open it from the outside but not from the inside. However, if you had a key, you could double-lock it from the inside, necessitating a key to unlock it from the inside too.

Again, there is a difference in most jurisdiction's building codes as to what is allowed for commercial/public buildings and what is allowed for private residential buildings.

Doors that require a key to unlock from the inside are allowed for residential but not for commercial/public buildings.

For commercial/public buildings all doors (excluding revolving doors) must open from the inside even while locked as a matter of fire safety. But then you have to have a normal door near the revolving door, again so people can evacuate in an emergency without having to unlock the doors.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

For commercial/public buildings all doors (excluding revolving doors) must open from the inside even while locked as a matter of fire safety.

Like hotel doors. You can lock yourself out, but not in.

Keet ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

However, if you had a key, you could double-lock it from the inside, necessitating a key to unlock it from the inside too.

That's like almost every front door here in the Netherlands. The double lock is what we call "night lock" but I doubt it's ever used to lock yourself inside. The funny thing is that when I go out and double lock the door, everyone still inside needs a key to get out. Uhmmm... not so funny in case of a fire but some people use it to keep little children from going out the front door unsupervised, usually the key is left in the lock which a little child can't operate.

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

if you had a key, you could double-lock it from the inside, necessitating a key to unlock it from the inside too.

On a private dwelling the security companies recommend you have a deadlock on exterior doors. To activate them you need to deliberately use the key to lock them. The insurance companies love them and give you a cut if you have them ion your exterior doors because it means criminals can't make off with all the large items and climbing out of windows is a bit more obvious that walking out of doors.

There's also a dead-latch door lock which works as a normal latch but also has a deadlock feature requiring the deliberate use of the key to operate to lock the door so you can't just turn the latch on the inside.

With both you only use the 'can't exit' feature when you go out and no one is at home.

Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@Switch Blayde

I watched an episode last night on Netflix's "All American" series. The coach locks himself in his office at the school. He looks through the glass in the door and sees his keys in the lock on the outside.

I watched a recent rerun of the newish CBS series "FBI", where they get a case involving a mass-murderer (or course, as there are a LOT more MM on TV and the movies than ever occur in real life). Nowhere, in the entire episode, is there ANY mention of what made then local NYC crime a Federal offense (those typically involve interstate crimes, or crossing state lines specifically to commit a crime).

Though I'd enjoyed the tale the first time, the fact the writers never once considered whether the crime was actually a federal offense really put me off the entire series, as I'm normally an avid Dick Wolf fan.

While that's a 'nick-picky' detail for many, it undermines the premise of the entire story. That's not a 'minor' mistake, it demonstrates a complete misunderstanding of the basic story premise. (The same way that 'gun porn' often doesn't reflect the basic storm premise at all!.)

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Vincent Berg

Nowhere, in the entire episode, is there ANY mention of what made then local NYC crime a Federal offense

1. It wouldn't necessarily have to be a Federal offense. The FBI sometimes gets pulled into state/local cases to provide assistance/expertise the locals don't have. This is most common in serial killer cases.

2. For it being a federal offense, it gets complicated and esoteric so I don't blame the show for staying away from it.

However, current DOJ policy is that federal jurisdiction can attach for any crime based on commerce clause authority if any tool used to commit the crime once traveled in interstate commerce. Try to avoid that these days. This policy is a back door to a general federal police power.

A lot of what would normally be considered state crimes have been duplicated in federal law (in case the crime crosses state lines or happens on federal land).

Yes, the DOJ thinks they have the authority to prosecute a simple murder because the murder weapon traveled in interstate commerce 40 years before the murder was committed.

The courts have never dealt squarely with this and whether or not it's legitimate.

Ernest Bywater ๐Ÿšซ

@Vincent Berg

Nowhere, in the entire episode, is there ANY mention of what made then local NYC crime a Federal offense

As DS points out below, there's a lot of other reasons the FBI can get involved in what appears to be a local case. If one of the persons attacked or thought to be attacked is a federal employee then the feds have a legally required involvement. If the attack is on or at a Federal building or facility then the feds are legally required to get involved. If the attack is on an educational facility operating under a federal grant then they have a legal reason to be involved. Sometimes they get involved only to the extent of looking the case over and saying they don't need to work the case, sometimes they work the case with the locals, and sometimes they take full control where they think they need to.

Also, if the suspect is on the most wanted list or believed to be on the most wanted list then the feds have an involvement in the case. The same applies if the suspect is believed to have committed similar crimes in another state.

madnige ๐Ÿšซ

Unless it's one of those Victorian era keyhole doors,

I grew up with those, in fact, my mother has only recently moved out of that house which had, besides mortice locks, lead water pipes, toilet cisterns which were copper-lined wooden boxes with real pull-chains (the original one of which had a ceramic pull with 'PULL' on it), (unused) lead pipework above the ceilings to feed gaslights (which had been already removed), a laundry room out back with an odd fireplace with a large bowl-shaped depression to take a large copper tub (removed before we moved in) for boiling clothes, one bedroom obviously for servant(s) with a full Belfast sink so they didn't have to use the main bathroom, the remains of wire-and-pulley/lever system to drive bells (on springs) in the back room to call a servant, claw-footed roll-top baths (two, one fancy upstairs, one utilitarian downstairs behind the kitchen), and sash windows throughout with glass with trapped air bubbles and wavy ripples where it had been rolled out. < /digression>

In most uPVC doors in the UK (and AFAIK Europe), doors are locked with (multiple) shoot-bolts operated by the handle, and the key just prevents that handle being turned to unlock it. The key fits a standard 'Eurocylinder', and most (all?) of these will not allow a key to be fully inserted from one side if there's already a key in the other, so even having a spare key handy would be of no use.

Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

Warp, hyper, bubble, etc drives would operate outside of the standard Eisenstein's relative universe. Hypotheses abound on the subject, but the only halfway guessed at proof of anything moving faster than light resides in the quantum physics universe.1

Bell's Theorem/quantum entanglement has at least been tested a few times with positive results, albeit controversial ones. Assuming one believes the reported results, it still doesn't happen in Einstein's universe.

1 As a result, the idea of FTL is flawed from the start. The speed of light is a constant in Einstein's universe, but anything traveling faster than that wouldn't be traveling in the normal/Einstein-verse to begin with.

Locality has taken multiple hits to the family jewels.

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature15759

Whatever form star travel takes (if it does), the probability of it being associated with light is slim to none with known information at this time.

Mushroom ๐Ÿšซ

To me, it depends on if it is sloppy writing, trying to get a :look and feel" over an absolutely accurate portrayal, or being just outright dishonest.

I will be honest, one author I love but will not name is pretty antagonistic to the military. And in one story he stated over and over you sign the contract, then take the test. So you may get stuck with a job you hate. SO in other words do not join the military.

That is wrong, it is the exact opposite. And it always had been. I understand taking "artistic license", I do it a lot. Occasionally place in something anachronistic say for story reasons, but when they write completely wrong out of laziness, I tend to move on.

Of course, I also rarely watch "military movies" for that reason. I remember seeing Heartbreak Ridge, and considering it a comedy it screwed up so many things.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Mushroom

I will be honest, one author I love but will not name is pretty antagonistic to the military. And in one story he stated over and over you sign the contract, then take the test. So you may get stuck with a job you hate. SO in other words do not join the military.

That is wrong, it is the exact opposite. And it always had been. I understand taking "artistic license", I do it a lot. Occasionally place in something anachronistic say for story reasons, but when they write completely wrong out of laziness, I tend to move on.

Depending on time frame, he could be right, or partially so, even now. IIRC, the current paradigm regarding the ASVAB didn't exist until outcry over the [i]recruiting[/i] of the mentally handicapped to fight in Vietnam. Which is where they began to be required to test first, and anybody in the bottom quintile was disqualified outright, the next 10% or so was "negotiable" depending on various factors. (20 years ago, the cutoff for all branches was at the 30% percentile for intelligence, but a couple branches could get waivers for as low as the 27th)

Yes, the current paradigm is test enlistees to verify they're "capable" of performing the job they're signing up for, and they attempt to schedule them to ensure that is what they get.

But there were, and probably still are disclaimers attached to those contracts. If your personal training gets delayed for any reason(for example an illness or injury during bootcamp which causes you to be set back in training) and that spot you signed up for, and were scheduled to be trained for goes away. At which point you're entirely at the mercy of "the needs of the military (branch)" and what they have available to you. Or in other words, "Sign the contract, then we'll tell you what you're going to get."

Of course, the military hates it when things go off-track, so they'll generally move heaven and earth to put things "back on track" before it reaches that point, but sometimes, it just cannot be helped.

The military changed a lot between the 1970's and when I got out, I imagine it has changed more since then, but probably not as much as it did going from say 1970 to 1998(and Tailhook in particular).

The all volunteer force, the 24/7 news cycle just itching for a public scandal to obsess over, and modern communications connectivity makes for a very different realm than the draft-era force that could do pretty much whatever it wanted(within certain, very widely and vaguely defined bounds) with minimal concern about what was going to be heard about back home.

But then you have things like Vet TV kicking around to (allegedly) demonstrate just how different things are from how many (post 9/11) vets view things and how the wider population views the military.

Replies:   Mushroom
Mushroom ๐Ÿšซ

@Not_a_ID

Depending on time frame, he could be right, or partially so, even now. IIRC, the current paradigm regarding the ASVAB didn't exist until outcry over the [i]recruiting[/i] of the mentally handicapped to fight in Vietnam. Which is where they began to be required to test first, and anybody in the bottom quintile was disqualified outright, the next 10% or so was "negotiable" depending on various factors. (20 years ago, the cutoff for all branches was at the 30% percentile for intelligence, but a couple branches could get waivers for as low as the 27th)

Ah yes, "MacNamara's 10,000". That was a specific program, because of complaints that many were being excluded actually. Kind of like Affirmitive Action for the mentally handicapped. It was a failure, but they were still tested first.

That story was set in the latter 1980s, and it had already changed long before. I took my test in 1981, joined in 1982. And he did write that he did not like the military, and in another he wrote later. I hate things like that because it gives people a warped view of how the process works.

In some ways, I made one of mine the opposite for a reason. His character was proud his father smoked dope and burned his draft card, in mine the dad served. He spent his time talking his friend out of serving, my main character decided to serve. But that was also key parts of the story itself, and not done just out of "spite".

Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

A revolver is generally not a semi-auto handgun and the parts are not interchangeable.

This is true as a generality. However, with modern mass produced guns, once you get down to a specific make and model, they are very much interchangeable.

And to the way I read it, a specific make/model is implicit in "very distinct features and structure".

A Revolver has very different features and structure from a semi-auto and even with in one or the other category, different makes/models have different features and structures.

Going back to your original statement, if you aren't referring to a specific make/model the statement that they are not variable is nonsense.

A writer cannot, therefore, make an off-hand comment in a story about loading .44Mag rounds into the MCs Glock before he put on the thumb safety, without being called out for writing bullshit.

Yes, that would be bullshit, but it's bullshit only because of of the reference to a specific make of semi-auto pistols.

There is no technical reason why someone couldn't make a semi-auto pistol chambered for .44Mag, or a revolver with a thumb safety.

Replies:   Remus2  Vincent Berg
Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/weapons/a21242/revolvers-with-safeties/
Revolvers with manual safety.

Most people know what the IMI Desert Eagle .44mag semiautomatic pistol is.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

Most people know what the IMI Desert Eagle .44mag semiautomatic pistol is.

Actually, I didn't know about that. In terms of the Desert Eagle, I think more people in the US would think of the .50AE version.

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@Dominions Son

Their first offerings were in .357 and .44mag. I believe they made a .41mag version as well. I'm not a fan of them as they are hard on the brass and finicky about the load, but for anyone not reloading, they work fine.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

Their first offerings were in .357 and .44mag.

Yeah, but the .50AE version is better known.

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Yeah, but the .50AE version is better known.

That's a subjective statement at best. The .44 version first put it on the map.

It's neither here nor there though. Some accuracy is important in a story 'if' the author is calling out specific known makes and models.
That concern is easily defeated by introducing an imaginary firearm.

For the imaginary version, a basic understanding of the mechanics is all that is necessary.

The larger problem is cognitive dissonance moments (CDM). Firearms, computer coding, food, alcohol, welding, horse riding, doesn't matter the subject, it's the cognitive dissonance moments that jars a readers mind. Too many inaccuracies gives a CDM. That breaks the story flow in the readers mind.

The more well known subjects are the largest source of such moments. There is far less trouble with the more esoteric subjects.

Replies:   Tw0Cr0ws  Vincent Berg
Tw0Cr0ws ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

True.
There is a story by JRyter where his MC spends a paragraph going on about the new unleaded ethyl gasoline that his parents store now sells. Ethyl is short for tetra-ethyl lead, so he is going on about unleaded leaded gasoline.

Makes as much sense as a dark skinned albino.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Tw0Cr0ws

dark skinned albino.

Sorry, but that's actually a thing :(

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son  Remus2
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

dark skinned albino.



Sorry, but that's actually a thing :(

Cite required.

Albinism is by definition the complete lack of pigment in the body. That's why a true albino has pink eyes, the only color in the iris is from blood.

awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Cite required.

And not forthcoming :(

The cases I vaguely remember are from the animal world where albinos, with pink eyes, have dark-coloured fur or feathers.

I am actually unaware of any cases where albinism has resulted in non-pale skin but I assumed the same mechanism, whatever it is, would apply.

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

The cases I vaguely remember are from the animal world where albinos, with pink eyes, have dark-coloured fur or feathers.

Nope, those aren't true albinos.

There are pseudo albinos in both the animal kingdom and and the human population that are missing the pigment in only parts of the body, but a true albino has no pigment anywhere.

ETA: It should be noted that true albinos are extremely rare.

Albino animals almost never survive to adulthood in the wild.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

true albinos are extremely rare.

"Prevalence of the different forms of albinism varies considerably by population, and is highest overall in people of sub-Saharan African descent. Today, the prevalence of albinism in sub-Saharan Africa is around 1 in 5,000, while in Europe and the US it is 1 in 20,000."

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@richardshagrin

Today, the prevalence of albinism in sub-Saharan Africa is around 1 in 5,000, while in Europe and the US it is 1 in 20,000."

Yes, for partial albinos. Full (no pigment anywhere) albinos are rarer than that.

joyR ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Cite required.

Try this link.

Albinism

Albinism affects the production of melanin, the pigment that colours skin, hair and eyes. It's a lifelong condition, but it doesn't get worse over time.

People with albinism have a reduced amount of melanin, or no melanin at all. This can affect their colouring and their eyesight.

Albinism is caused by faulty genes that a child inherits from their parents.

Symptoms of albinism

Hair and skin colour

People with albinism often have white or very light blonde hair, although some have brown or ginger hair. The exact colour depends on how much melanin their body produces.

An African girl with albinism. She has pale skin and short, light blonde hair.
Very pale skin that burns easily in the sun and does not usually tan is also typical of albinism
Eye colour

Someone with albinism can have pale blue, grey or brown eyes. Eye colour depends on the type of albinism and the amount of melanin. People from ethnic groups with darker pigmentation tend to have darker coloured eyes.

So, unless you are being 'purist', albinos come in a variety of shades and colours.

AJ you owe me a [censored] :)

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ
Updated:

@joyR

AJ you owe me a [censored] :)

Oh, that again!

Do you buy new equipment each time or have you found a way to sterilise it?

AJ

Replies:   joyR
joyR ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

Do you buy new equipment each time of have you found a way to sterilise it?

I'd never be so sadistic as to have your equipment sterilised. Washed gently and handled tenderly has always been more than effective to achieve my aim...

To bad your aim has, umm... lost accuracy... Calibre is fine, the load however...

Oops, heading towards gun porn again...

:)

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking ๐Ÿšซ

@joyR

Calibre is fine, the load however...

Oops, heading towards gun porn again...

Shame about my hair-trigger and the time it takes to reload :(

AJ

Replies:   joyR
joyR ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

Shame about my hair-trigger and the time it takes to reload :(

There are those who believe that perfection has to have a flaw to be truly beautiful.

See..? I can be nice... Don't get used to it.

:)

Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

Albinism is by definition the complete lack of pigment in the body. That's why a true albino has pink eyes, the only color in the iris is from blood.

Except, 'true' albinism is fairly rare. What's much more common is for selective patches due to other underlying conditions. But, the term 'dark-skinned albino' specifically refers to blacks (or other dark skinned individuals) who also happen to be albinos. Since albinos are often discriminated and attacked outright, that's what's known as a 'double boggie', thus worth the specific designation.

Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ

@awnlee jawking

It's not a thing. Even African decent black genetics with albinism lack melonin/pigment in their skin. Without melonin, no color.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

Even African decent black genetics with albinism lack melonin/pigment in their skin.

True albinism isn't just a lack of melonin/pigment in the skin, it's a total lack of any pigment in the entire body, white hair and pink irises(pink from the blood vessels).

Replies:   Remus2
Remus2 ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

True albinism isn't just a lack of melonin/pigment in the skin, it's a total lack of any pigment in the entire body, white hair and pink irises(pink from the blood vessels).

That's not exactly true.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/albinism/symptoms-causes/syc-20369184
https://rarediseases.info.nih.gov/diseases/5768/albinism

Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@Remus2

The larger problem is cognitive dissonance moments (CDM). Firearms, computer coding, food, alcohol, welding, horse riding, doesn't matter the subject, it's the cognitive dissonance moments that jars a readers mind. Too many inaccuracies gives a CDM. That breaks the story flow in the readers mind.

Yeah, cognitive dissonance is an issue, but ONLY if the characters already KNOWS something about guns other than 'pick it up, aim and shoot repeatedly'. If the story is NOT about an experienced vet or lawman, then scattering specific gun details are probably misguided (unless he's asking the sales clerk for recommendations, in which case he generally will have to wait a couple weeks for the background check anyway).

Those details are essential if you're providing background details, so simply being consistent, not if you just want an explosive gunfight in the middle of a 'non-gun porn' story.

Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

A writer cannot, therefore, make an off-hand comment in a story about loading .44Mag rounds into the MCs Glock before he put on the thumb safety, without being called out for writing bullshit.

Yes, that would be bullshit, but it's bullshit only because of of the reference to a specific make of semi-auto pistols.

There is no technical reason why someone couldn't make a semi-auto pistol chambered for .44Mag, or a revolver with a thumb safety.

I think you're missing the point. For many stories, like the one I'm working on now, the lead character has NO history with guns, and while he's wrestling with how to defend himself from potential killers, describing what kind of weapon it is and how he oils and maintain is are utterly inane. The main question in this context is, can he shoot it or not, and if he does, what are the odds he'll hit anything.

But for the gun-porn enthusiasts, many will reject any book which does not go into obscene details about a weapon, describing it like it's the characters own penis.

For me, I'll drop any references to make and model, as there's NO reason for the character to know the difference. Will that cost me readers? Likely, but my (non-gun-porn) story was never for them anyway.

It's like someone referring to an outdated process on a story set in the past. Anyone hip deep in the current technology will grind their teeth, but it has no bearing whatsoever on the underlying story. In the end, such details are just noise, a pointless distraction. IF the character has spent his life treating his guns like his most precious child, then their relevance is different. Again, that's another story.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son ๐Ÿšซ

@Vincent Berg

I think you're missing the point. For many stories, like the one I'm working on now, the lead character has NO history with guns, and while he's wrestling with how to defend himself from potential killers, describing what kind of weapon it is and how he oils and maintain is are utterly inane.

No, I'm not missing the point. Though possibly you are. The comment I was responding to was about getting details wrong, not leaving them out.

My first comment on this thread recommended using vague generalities and avoiding specifics.

But for the gun-porn enthusiasts, many will reject any book which does not go into obscene details about a weapon, describing it like it's the characters own penis.

Screw them. You can't satisfy them unless you are a gun expert, and even then, half of what the gun-porn enthusiast think they know about guns is bass ackwards Hollywood crap.

For me, I'll drop any references to make and model, as there's NO reason for the character to know the difference. Will that cost me readers? Likely, but my (non-gun-porn) story was never for them anyway.

I agree with the approach. As to it costing you readers? Yeah, probably a few, but I don't think there are as many of them as you think, they are just vocal about it.

Replies:   Vincent Berg
Vincent Berg ๐Ÿšซ

@Dominions Son

No, I'm not missing the point. Though possibly you are. The comment I was responding to was about getting details wrong, not leaving them out.

Yet the question you were replying to was about whether the author can leave out unnecessary details. So your response that 'details are necessary' wasn't really addressing his central question (hence my belabored details about the role of character details in stories).

Yes, details are important, but as I said, they're not equally important to all stories. Instead, the relevant details are essential, while irrelevant details just get in the way.

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