I am sure that I am not the only one, but the worst critics of my characters and grammar have never posted a story. Just a small rant.
CAT the Oldgrump
I am sure that I am not the only one, but the worst critics of my characters and grammar have never posted a story. Just a small rant.
CAT the Oldgrump
I am sure that I am not the only one, but the worst critics of my characters and grammar have never posted a story. Just a small rant.
Wear it as a badge of honor! If your grammar and word usage is consistent, that's your style. I finally took to creating a page on my wiki for my personal manual of style and point critics there.
As for criticizing the characters, ignore them. Well, unless they actually have good ideas. I've had some really interesting ones which I applied, even if not to the character they suggested applying them to. Of course, the vast majority are completely outside of things a ANY character would do in the universe I've created, and those get tossed with a polite 'thank you for your input'.
We generally give more weight to suggestions by those we admire, but for most, criticism by an author is just as objectionable as criticism from out of the blue. Criticism stings, but no matter how biting it is, you need to step back and consider its validity. If it has no basis in fact, then merely put it aside as irrelevant. However, if it hits too close to home, then you should also put it aside, but merely to give you time to process, so you can reexamine it when you're able to distance yourself from it and review it objectively.
The toughest part of being an artist is facing the biting criticism that your art produces, but art which doesn't generate enthusiasm, either positive or negative, serves no purpose at all.
If nothing else, at least the writer READ your work, and was moved enough to voice his opinion. How many of us wonder whether anyone is reading our work at all, when we go months at a time without hearing anything?
Criticism is like rejection letters, they're a necessary part of the craft—except criticism means your work has reached someone and made a difference, one way or another, while rejection means that no one is likely to read your work.
I am sure that I am not the only one, but the worst critics of my characters and grammar have never posted a story. Just a small rant.
But the nit-picking critic had to READ it in order to bitch about it. A nett win. :)
ps
If you can get the same nit-picking critic to bitch about three chapters/stories in succession, you are guaranteed a 'hall of fame' spot. :)
My worst critics are my editors. However, they're sometimes right.
NB: Typos not included in the above remarks.
The last time I offered criticism to a story, I got flamed and deleted by the author in that story's comments. I no longer read that piece. I do, however, go back and read the comments. The author continues to flame negative criticism. I am not sure what to think but prefer CW's approach of stepping back and objectively considering it.
Sounds to me like an author with an overinflated ego. Someone who cannot stand for any comments that are not phrase.
That was my take on it too. He had become arrogant, complacent and formulaic due his early success. It was just juvenile pulp fiction for god's sake.
He had become arrogant, complacent and formulaic due his early success. It was just juvenile pulp fiction for god's sake.
Again, that viewpoint might be overly simplistic. Sometimes, juvenile pulp is what they're after, rather than some literary masterpiece. As such, someone comparing it to something dissimilar, and suggesting the story need to be rewritten (at least portions thereof), might seem misguided. If it is lighthearted enjoyment, pointing out structural flaws might be entirely beside the point. If his fans enjoy it, knowing what it is, that may be enough. For those desiring more, we often crave deeper understandings of the craft, so such analyses are appreciated.
Sounds to me like an author with an overinflated ego. Someone who cannot stand for any comments that are not phrase.
I know what you mean. Complete sentences motherfuckers! Do you speak it? A single phrase or half a clause does nothing for me.
I know what you mean. Complete sentences motherfuckers! Do you speak it? A single phrase or half a clause does nothing for me.
I think he meant "praise" but got caught up in auto spell checking.
ETA Oh, and red, you make me laugh. And I've never even seen your face.
No matter how hard you try, you will never obtain 100% agreement on grammar, and many times, the same for spelling. Just go back in this forum for the thousands of disagreements on grammar, and that just the civil ones.
I flipped through a dozen DTP before replying to this. In twelve different books, by 12 different authors, and 7 different publishers, there was no consistency to be found on this subject. The majority were minor with a few major inconsistencies.
I would take the attitude of fuck'em if they want to be an ass about.
you will never obtain 100% agreement on grammar
True, as there are so many different ways English grammar is taught in different countries, and also in different areas within some countries. For evidence of this you need only look at the differences in the many widely used style manuals made in the USA.
No matter how hard you try, you will never obtain 100% agreement on grammar, and many times, the same for spelling.
But if your criticism isnt about spelling or grammar? My criticism was about logical inconsistencies in the narrative. The spelling/grammar actually got better over time, but the discontinuities became increasingly obvious. As well as the narrative becoming more predictable and less entertaining--at least to me--because of the logical errors.
Is my, or any reader's, pointing that out worth flaming them? Or, maybe, worth sitting back and rethinking?
It is just criticism. Review it. Objectively consider it. And move on.
IF you don't want to be critiqued, say so and do not enable comments to your story. If you enable comments, you accept the good as well as the bad.
There is constructive criticism, negative criticism, then just plain being an ass about it. The first two can be useful for improvement, the last not so much.
Is my, or any reader's, pointing that out worth flaming them? Or, maybe, worth sitting back and rethinking?
Despite your desire to help, pointing out basic flaws in a story often undermines the entire work, and authors frequently take it that way, as an effort to undermine their accomplishments, rather than an opportunity to start again from scratch.
I run into that often with my Content Editor, as he'll point of plot holes, and I'm often flummoxed about how to rectify them. Given time, I generally figure it out, but I've had to flush a few almost completed (1st draft only) books, so it's hard feeling grateful in the moment.
As such, they key is often how you present the information. Rather than piling on, listing several items, all of which might sink the story (if we're discussing plot holes), focus on ways the author night circumvent the issue. Even if they decide against that approach, in favor of something better, one is generally more creative when not in the grip of utter despair. ::(
I flipped through a dozen DTP before replying to this
In this context, what does DTP mean?
I guessed Dead Tree Publications.
HM.
Criticism is a touchy subject. My general rule of thumb on story feedback, positive or negative, here at SOL is to only give feedback to authors that ask for it. I just finished a story last week where the endnote specified that any comments on spelling or grammar were NOT wanted. If it is asked for and I feel there is an issue worth discussing I follow the reviewer guidelines of only constructive criticism and usually sandwich it between positive feedback. Basically, 'I loved your story and how you did this or that but feel this other is an area for improvement.' followed by enthusiastic praise and how how much I look forward to reading future offerings and as always a thanks for sharing their efforts.
My personal thoughts on the OP's comments are who are you writing for? If you are writing for yourself or your own enjoyment tell that to your readers and ask them to keep their criticism to themselves. If you are writing to entertain your readers than who better than the readers to inform you of how well you succeeded in accomplishing that goal.
As for those who offer harsh and abusive criticism just report their dumbasses to management and let Lazeez deal with them.
I have never had a piece of criticism I, eventually, wasn't happy to have received. There are a few things, especially on Blue Ribbon, that cut me, enraged me, and, given time to cool my idiot head, improved me.
I'll admit I, on first seeing them, don't like the nitpicky "You mixed up then and than here." Worse when they post the definitions of both words as if this was an knowledge problem and not an auditory one. Most of these come in a vacuum to any opinions on the rest of the story. In the end, once I'm not hot about it, I'm glad the commenter spoke up.
You don't have to be capable of building an car to realize you bought a lemon. I would feel bad if I judged a commenter for not having written a story, let alone a story to the standard they seem to want to hold me.
I leave the comments section open for my readers to openly discuss and comment on my stories. Even the worst ones, I enjoy reading.
As for the emails, I read and note every one. Even if I don't respond. (except for the twits that just spout, 'get an editor'.)
I might not agree with all of the changes that my readers suggest, but they do get added to a doc dedicated to that story for when or if, I ever decide to rewrite it.
Shad
For the second time by the same commenter, I received a message about my story Dick Picture Perfect. In so many words:
I haven't read it but the premise is repulsive.
All the best comments begin with "I haven't read it but..." I feel great...
I'll admit, I've done this multiple times in discussions, as recent medical issues have limited just how much I can read in a single sitting (I currently struggle to review a single chapter, and thus feel reluctant to undertake a 50+ chapter story on SOL, even though many of my best stories were triggered by someone else's.
While that's difficult to admit, I rarely attack story content, mainly limiting my abusive comments to their literary execution (ie. how arguments are phrased, or pacing or emphasis is laid out.
Now that I'm slowly recovering, I'm hoping to restart my outside reading again, but if I'm severely limited, I tend to focus on 'short-attention-span scientific article summaries. So far, that's mostly all I can manage, as they're reasonably short and to the point.
One person's squick is another person's turn on. That one sentence says a lot about the whiner (I can't really call them a critic if they "haven't read it".) They are one of the crowd that feels 'everyone' should believe, agree, and be as they are. Anyone who does not is wrong and needs to be corrected.
My reply would be along the lines of Thank you for your opinion but obviously you are not my target audience for that story. As such your having not read the story is of little concern to me as I was not writing it for you.
Yeah, that is good advice. The first time I answered with a joke. The second time I just explained that the idea of a dick picture working as a seduction method is absurd and that I find comedy in absurdity.
Still, "I haven't read it but", got under my skin.
Still, "I haven't read it but", got under my skin.
Maybe he wanted one long one and couldn't handle it being posted a piece at a time...?
:)
I actually love those, I hate your slow schedule. "I want more of you!" is a great bitchy complaint.
Thanks everyone, lots of great commiseration and advice. A shower and a meal and I burned off the frustrating feelings.
Just so you know, red, I have that story in my queue but haven't read it yet, since you haven't finished it.
I will withhold my opinion until such time.
The same could be said for the 12 other "Inactive and incomplete" stories in my queue along with the 5 more that will join them at the end of this month. Such is SOL life.
That's fair. My slow schedule infuriates some readers but it's better than never finishing the story.
Or continuing one that begs for a sequel. I've had that discussion with G Younger before. And with Lazlo about the Donaldsons.
Such is life.
Life. Five Stars. Would Live Again.
Fuck, now I have a title for a DoOver story. Bring on the incessant plot ideas you foul imagination of mine.
For the second time by the same commenter, I received a message about my story Dick Picture Perfect. In so many words:
I haven't read it but the premise is repulsive.
All the best comments begin with "I haven't read it but..." I feel great...
I'll preface this with I haven't read the story and probably won't. The description doesn't describe something that is my cuppa.
Having said that, to comment beyond the generic comment above would be wrong imo. You'd be hard pressed to find a subject to write about that at least one other person wouldn't want to read.
That's what the tags and descriptions are for. Where I would get upset, is if I got into a story and the tags and descriptions were not even close to what I was reading.
I suggest just ignoring the troll.
That's what the tags and descriptions are for. Where I would get upset, is if I got into a story and the tags and descriptions were not even close to what I was reading.
That's true. It's virtually impossible to write something that everyone loves, as it either contains a squick, or doesn't contain enough squicks for a particular subset. And trust me, we each have our own set of personal squicks (personally, I despite violence (aka. rape or revenge fantasies). They can be wonderfully written, but I just won't read them as they upset me SO much. :( Use of religion is a close second (again, where the religion condones victimizing someone). But then, I don't criticize stories I don't read, I simply pass on them, and don't vote on stories I can't be bothered to read, as my opinion clearly doesn't count in those cases.