Forum: Author Hangout

Henry's comments are extensive and that would result in a very long paragraph. In places the topics Henry talks about change, and each topic warrants a new paragraph.

Henry's topics don't determine the paragraphs. Harry's do. And Harry has one topic, that of telling what Henry said (btw, Henry and Harry are names easy to confuse).

If it's long, then Harry needs to do something (some action) while telling what Henry said that will force a new paragraph. For example:

Harry said, "Henry paused for a few minutes, Doug. Then he said, 'I redid my will to leave a small portion of my estate to Sandy, ...' "

Harry took a sip of his drink and continued. "Then Henry said, '…' "

I didn't give an extensive description of the scene for it wasn't necessary to answer my question.

There are always ways to work around such a problem, but I like the flow of the scene and would prefer to not break it up as you indicated.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, I would not start a new paragraph. Harry is telling what Henry said. Why start a new paragraph?

Not knowing the context, I'm unsure why you'd need a new paragraph, but Switch is correct, as someone is explaining 'what was said' there's really no reason to put it in separate quotes at all. Instead, since few people remember their precise wording days/weeks/months/years in the past, simply summarize the gist and get on with the story, rather than rehash every single word.

Even if the comments are extensive, it would make more sense to have Harry recap each point Henry made, have Doug respond to that, before the conversation advances to the next point that Henry said. Again, this is personal dialogue between two individuals, not a recorded transcript of the actual conversations. In short, don't bore your readers with details, but keep in mind how Harry would recap something said a few days later to a third party.

Plus, I agree with Switch, having Harry recount what Henry said is just asking for trouble, as no one will be able to tell WTF (Who The Fuck) is speaking.

Finally, when you include a hanging pause (where one speaker's voice finally fades away before they complete the sentence) you place a simple ellipse (with a single space before it) and no final punctuation (i.e. if you included something similar in your story, you'd drop the comma, just as you would the full stop at the end of a hanging pause).

Of course, another option is to avoid the retelling entirely, and start the chapter with Doug saying: "From what you described of your conversation, I think Henry means ...".

If you were writing to be published, that's exactly what a professional editor would do, as the 'retelling' can easily kill a story, and it's typically better to jump directly to the next 'action' scene (here, that would be Doug responding to the news, not Harry rehashing every single detail).

since few people remember their precise wording

Excellent point.

since few people remember their precise wording

Excellent point.

Even more important, it provides wiggle room, just in case Henry comes back later and says "I never said that!" Since SOL stories tend to evolve on the fly, casting a prior conversation in proverbial stone is just laying additional landmines for you to step in further down the pike.

Plus, by keeping the recounted details to a single speaker, you're forced to consider how Harry would phrase the conversation, rather than trying to capture Henry's normal delivery.

Not knowing the context

For not knowing the context, you jumped to judgment on a number of things that require knowledge of the context.

SB's prior comments were based on his assumptions that were also made without knowledge of the context.

since few people remember their precise wording

Which would be true of many of your characters also, but you still put their words in quotes.

SB's prior comments were based on his assumptions that were also made without knowledge of the context.

Other than the possible Henry/Harry confusion, my comments were general in nature since I didn't have context.

Okay.

or not knowing the context, you jumped to judgment on a number of things that require knowledge of the context.

…

Which would be true of many of your characters also, but you still put their words in quotes.

Yes, it's always dangerous posting short passage from ongoing stories, as they'll always get attacked, especially since you can't include larger portions without revealing essential plot points, but …

I wasn't referring to someone referencing something that someone else stated, as that happens all the time in dialogue. What I was referencing is quoting lengthy passage, which is an entirely separate category, as the speaker is not making a specific point to be discussed. Instead, it's often a short cut for authors who chose not to include the original scene but still wants to recite the entire dialogue in someone else's dialogue.

In short, it's simply a bad practice, because 1) It's unrealistic, as few people remember precisely what was said, but simply paraphrase exchanges, and 2) It's tedious, because readers don't want to read the Entire exchange, they only want to know what the fallout is (i.e. How it impacts the unfolding story.

And frankly, there are more effective means of recounting past events without including a word-for-word recitation.

Given that ONLY you know the full context, you'll need to figure out, on your own, how to implement the various suggestions, but you've heard multiple authors telling you that it's NOT a wise choice, especially when there are more reliable options.

You still want to stipulate the same details, cut the way your approaching it is likely to make readers' eyes glaze over in the process.

CW, almost every post you made above is based on your assumptions, which are mostly wrong. You know nothing about the scene or how it is written, but you claim:

the way your approaching it is likely to make readers' eyes glaze over in the process.

Since you know essentially nothing about the scene and how I am approaching it, how do you know my readers' eyes will glaze over.

I asked for advice on how to punctuate a paragraph break and provided a short sample of the dialog to illustrate the reason for my request. You said that was a dangerous thing to do. Other authors have asked for advice on how to improve a scene, but I don't recall you telling them that providing the text of the scene with their requests were dangerous things to do. Why now and not then. Is it that you wanted to respond, but didn't have a good answer to the question presented? Is it that you choose to slam me on other issues because you didn't want to answer my question.

you've heard multiple authors telling you that it's NOT a wise choice, especially when there are more reliable options.

Yes other authors have said to use another option, which is their advice based on no knowledge of the scene's content. There is nothing wrong with the way the scene is written, and there is no "problem" with the scene. However the necessary paragraph breaks resulted in Harry quoting Henry before and after the paragraph break. While that may be unusual, it is not wrong. So I asked what the proper opening punctuation should be. You apparently think I should have avoided my "choice" of retaining what was written and avoid the question of what punctuation to use. You provided your advice even though I previously stated that rewriting the passage would degrade the scene. If you don't know the proper method of punctuating the paragraph break that is fine, just stop telling me to avoid what you see as a "problem".

I asked for advice on how to punctuate a paragraph break

In that case, Ryan Sylander's post explains it well.

I agree.

That is why I thanked him and LucyAnneThorn for their responses. Her response would have been correct if it had been a simple quote, and I think she overlooked that it was a quote within a quote, which requires two sets of quotes.

Henry's dialog required paragraph breaks

I guess I don't understand why.

Its not Henry talking where he changes the topic dictating a new paragraph. It's almost like you want the dialogue to be Henry's, but spoken by Harry (not related by Harry).

Have you considered block quotes?

No I hadn't.

No space makes it look like a triple quote. If I recall, it is recommended to put a space between the single and double quotes of the closing punctuation for a quote within a quote when both quotes terminate at the end of the sentence. I decided on double and single quotes with a space. It looks odd to me, but acceptable.

I feel that rewriting the scene to avoid the opening quote situation would disrupt the flow of the scene.

My 1st choice would be to rewrite the scene so this wasn't necessary.

Have you considered block quotes?

You wouldn't use block quotes for something that's being actively recounted by a speaker. It's only used to detail something which isn't spoken directly in the dialogue.