Forum: Author Hangout

I wonder if you could word the review in a way that doesn't flag Amazon's rejection algorithm?

He who sits in the driver's seat controls the car.

The only way to get beyond their censorship is to go public on social media, and you take a major risk in doing that. Furthermore, most people in the Public don't care about this issue.

There is a large segment of people in our society who say it is okay to commit an unethical act because the odds of them getting in trouble are non-existent.

There is a large segment of people in our society who say it is okay to commit an unethical act

There's a very loud piracy lobby group who claim copyright is unethical because it means they can't steal it and use it. They feel all stories, films, and music should be public domain as part of a country's culture. You can check out the most virulent rectums at a site called Torrent Freak (torrentfream.com). The site admins are OK, but one of their big contributors is a guy named Rick Falkvinge thinks everything produced that isn't a physical item you can use (such as a chair or tool) are part of culture and should be free to all to use and copy as they like - this includes stories, paintings, movies, songs etc. There's also a large group of people on the site who post comments that support the same view and abuse the hell out of anyone who supports copyright in any form.

There's a very loud piracy lobby group who claim copyright is unethical because it means they can't steal it and use it. They feel all stories, films, and music should be public domain as part of a country's culture.

There are multiple stages to this movement, as much of it is based on honest anger over the abuses of the U.S. copyright offices extension of a copyright's duration. However, instead of arguing against 75 year or and indefinite duration, they instead argue for completely ignoring copyrights across the board.

The entire torrent movement has prospered, partly because it's difficult to shut down, but also because it's seen as self-defeating to go after them. The MIAA targeted them heavily, and got repeatedly attacked for it, and saw their movies copies MORE often the more they objected to it. Similarly, most authors who find their works 'stolen' in this way (on torrent sites) report that it doesn't really 'steal' any sales (since torrent users rarely pay for anything at all), but that they tend to generate additional sales from users who discover their works this way. In fact, many authors frequently release the first book in a series to torrent sites simply to generate free exposure.

As such, while I think the claim that 'all copyright is bogus' is disquieting, I personally don't see torrent sites as that dangerous in itself.

As such, while I think the claim that 'all copyright is bogus' is disquieting, I personally don't see torrent sites as that dangerous in itself.

CW,

I agree with your comment on the torrent sites themselves. However, what is a real worry is the rabid attack attitude of people like Rick and his supporters who want everything they have an interest in handed to them free on a platter. They're pushing to have political groups ban all copyrights. They want all electronic media and files to be free (that includes all software, digital films, music, and stories), all stories, all music and recordings, all films, and anything else you that isn't a useful tool of some sort to be totally free for people to do with as they want.

They think it's a good idea to go to a concert, record the concert, and put up free on a torrent site so no one else has to pay to go to the concert. If insufficient people pay to go to concerts then the concerts aren't organised - so who wins out of that issue. I saw a report where one band who makes most of their income from concerts have paid a large sum to have special signal included in the signal to the speakers at their concerts - it's reported the signal adds a sound the human ear can't hear directly, but it causes a screech sound if you record it - wish I knew how that works. I can see more of this sort of problem arising.

Every band makes most of it's money from touring and merchandise. Even the big names don't make much from record/CD sales, the labels eat it all.

Not true, some bands make their own recordings and sell them. However, the point of the post was they seemed to have found a technical way to stop people recording their concerts, but it cost them a lot.

I saw a report where one band who makes most of their income from concerts have paid a large sum to have special signal included in the signal to the speakers at their concerts - it's reported the signal adds a sound the human ear can't hear directly, but it causes a screech sound if you record it - wish I knew how that works. I can see more of this sort of problem arising.

Maybe we can add some screechings to our books?

Maybe we can add some screechings to our books?

The only way I can think of to do that is:

1. Lazeez remove the story download links that allow a reader to download stories to their personal devices.

2. Add a "No Copy" characteristic to all story files during translation to SOL format.

Unfortunately, that will make life harder on those who want to read a story without going to the SOL website to do so. That is the only viable way that I can think of to protect future stories from being stolen from SOL's website. :(

ETA: If Lazeez were willing to do that, then it may be possible for him to add the No Copy feature to the current stories. One problem with my solution is a reader couldn't cut and paste a passage into a feedback message. :(

The main advantage of P M is the ability to download stories and read them later.

That is just one of many advantages to paid membership. It may be important to you and others, but not to everyone. I see little difference between reading while logged in and not logged in. You would still be able to access the website on your mobile devices.

For me, the question becomes - Do we support the rights of the Authors who post stories to the website or do we risk losing the Authors and their stories. I doubt you will be hurt by having to access the website to read the stories, but perhaps it might be an inconvenience to you.

1. Lazeez remove the story download links that allow a reader to download stories to their personal devices.

2. Add a "No Copy" characteristic to all story files during translation to SOL format.

The first isn't possible to do properly, because your system has to download the file in some format to be able to display for you to read. At that point there's a number of ways you can save the downloaded file or files if you want to.

The second may be possible, but may not be worth the effort - I don't know enough about how to code it to ensure such an action would always be activated. I suspect it just isn't possible to do, like the first action, and for similar reasons.

The first isn't possible to do properly,

What I referred to was the links at the bottom of the story description that allow a paid member to download the entire story as a single download.

The second item is done on some websites, I don't know the mechanism but it works. Yes, a knowledgeable person may be able to get around that roadblock, but I suspect most of the plagiarists aren't that knowledgeable.

The second item is done on some websites,

There are a couple of ways of making it hard to download, but there's already software available to allow you to do with one click. Video streaming is hard to save to a local file, but there's now a whole pile of programs that will capture the stream and save it for you to watch later.

Even if Lazeez spent a lot of time , effort, and money in providing some sort of technical answer it would soon be beaten and he'd have lost a lot of income, which could jeopardise SoL's long term viability. And it may not do the job, because the files they already have copies of will be available for them to repost time after time. Most of the stories of mine they posted are about all they'll steal of mine and what i could see of them they were older versions they downloaded some years ago, and they also included some stories that were only ever posted at SoL and were removed over a year ago. So we're in a situation where the horses have bolted, so what we do about the open barn door isn't going to make much effect on the overall situation.

The second item is done on some websites, I don't know the mechanism but it works. Yes, a knowledgeable person may be able to get around that roadblock, but I suspect most of the plagiarists aren't that knowledgeable.

Yeah, but again, you'd be hurting the few paying customers who keep the site afloat (only 2%, max). By limiting what they can do, they'll begin to abandon the site, turning it from a self-sustaining site to one losing money hand-over-fist (like ASSTR, at the moment). What's more, the current band of copyright thieves won't be impacted, as they'll continue to sell the same stories they stole years ago (there's no evidence they're still visiting the site).

In short, your 'solution' is a lose-lose for the site, it would take a considerable investment to implement, it wouldn't pay for itself and would limit the site's existing source of income, while not limiting the effects of the thieves.

Frankly, I'm not sure there's anything we can do to stop them, other than to continue reporting them every time they pop up. With luck, if they get enough complaints, Amazon might start deleting accounts, but until they tie it to tax IDs, it's unlikely to have any effect even then. And since Amazon continues to make money from those same copyright violators, they're hardly motivated to take a definitive stand against them. :(

I'm not sure there's anything we can do to stop them

Maybe those who have published on Amazon can send them emails bringing up the subject and suggesting Amazon keep track of the bank info being used and not assign any new accounts with that bank account. I think it's one person using different names each time Amazon deletes his "caught" account.

Maybe if enough people complain they'll put a procedure in place.

Maybe those who have published on Amazon can send them emails bringing up the subject and suggesting Amazon keep track of the bank info being used and not assign any new accounts with that bank account. I think it's one person using different names each time Amazon deletes his "caught" account.

I've mentioned the ongoing problem with the same individuals doing nothing other than marketing others work (including stealing the works from a public site), after documenting that the work they were marketing was clearly mine, but I doubt it will have any effect.

Amazon makes it's money by pushing Billions of books offered by Millions of different authors, so they frankly don't care who gets hurt, as long as the money continues to roll in. Just look at Facebook and Twitter. They're fully aware they're promoting 'fake news' for dubious hate groups and foreign governments trying to undermine our rule of law, but as long as people keep tuning in (even if most are simply bots purchased to artificially boost numbers), they don't care. They measure success by numbers, rather than the good they do or how satisfied anyone is. :(

Twitter was close to folding, until Trump started using to attack everyone at three in the morning. Now, everyone avoids the site, but they've never gotten as many page hits as they do now, so they simply don't give a shit!

keep track of the bank info being used and not assign any new accounts with that bank account

Good thought. Unfortunately, they can open new bank accounts just as easily as they open a new Amazon account. :(

The key to this problem is Amazon. I suspect they know it is a problem, but they don't want the problem to go away if they can make money off of it.

We could probably come up with a way to keep a plagiarist from opening an account with false information, but I doubt Amazon would be willing to implement such a method. Bottom line seems to be Amazon has a system that works for them and they don't care if others get hurt.

Good thought. Unfortunately, they can open new bank accounts just as easily as they open a new Amazon account. :(

Not true. Each bank account requires proof of a legal tax idea in whatever country the individual resides. By blocking that ID, they could limit the creation of new accounts.

Unfortunately, that can be easily bypassed by producing a fake ID/passport or other documentation, but these are low-level pond scum, simply trying to garner as much money as they can with the least amount of effort, so I seriously doubt they'd expend that much work.

Besides, they really don't have to. Amazon makes it incredibly easy to just create one account after another. That's why there are SO MANY erotic books featuring kiddie-porn and incest on Amazon, which bans ALL such books. They know that, if their account is deleted, they simply open a new one, using the exact same account, and start all over again. They may lose a few loose dollars each time, but it's a fast money-making enterprise with few risks since Amazon isn't interested in stopping it.

@REP

We could probably come up with a way to keep a plagiarist from opening an account with false information, but I doubt Amazon would be willing to implement such a method. Bottom line seems to be Amazon has a system that works for them and they don't care if others get hurt.

Sorry, it seems we were both making the exact same argument. I was reacting to the first line of your response about their being nothing they could do about opening new accounts.

but again, you'd be hurting the few paying customers who keep the site afloat (only 2%, max).

I doubt most paid members download a story to read it off-line. There are a few but having to log in to read the story wouldn't hurt them, especially if they understood that Authors, especially professional authors, may not want to post their new stories to the website plagiarists seem to prefer. That would be bad for everyone.

I wonder if you could word the review in a way that doesn't flag Amazon's rejection

I found out the reviews I first posted were rejected because I put a URL in them - but later ones without a URL and simply state "Plagiarised story stolen from storiesonline' with a title of 'Stolen story' were accepted by Amazon.

I found out the reviews I first posted were rejected because I put a URL in them - but later ones without a URL and simply state "Plagiarised story stolen from storiesonline' with a title of 'Stolen story' were accepted by Amazon.

Good to know (and you can ignore my previous rant on the subject, based on this newest observation).

Amazon has rejected all the reviews reporting the story as stolen.

I wonder if you could word the review in a way that doesn't flag Amazon's rejection algorithm? Such as, give it 2 or 3 stars and say;
"It's a great story but I found it for free by the real author on another site."

Amazon has a policy, instituted years ago in response to author abuse, which prohibits authors from posting claims against other authors (presumably to benefit themselves). That's why, on the Report Infringement form, there's a field where you're forced to acknowledge that you can be banned for "making false claims against another author".

I'm guessing, each time to downvote a story this way, your account is getting another black mark from Amazon. It's not an effective strategy!

"It's a great story but I found it for free by the real author on another site."

Actually, Amazon won't be undersold. There's a link to report a book you found at a cheaper price. If these stories are reported as being free, Amazon should make them free on its site which would mean the crooks aren't getting paid and therefore it's not worth their while.

Actually, Amazon won't be undersold. There's a link to report a book you found at a cheaper price. If these stories are reported as being free, Amazon should make them free on its site which would mean the crooks aren't getting paid and therefore it's not worth their while.

Grrr! Or, alternatively, if the legitimate author charges $5.99, and the copyright thieves, not having invested any time or effort, only charge $.99, then it's the original author who loses, since his price will be cut, rather than the thief's.

You're only playing Amazon's game by trying to play by their rules. If you report price violations, you end up hurting everyone, by reducing the value of a work to it's lowest price.

Better quality work should be priced higher than random crap. I post here for free, because it helps my stories, and also helps move my older stories. Don't ask me to choose between posting for free or receiving money for my efforts!

As the author/rights holder, I think there would be grounds and some means for an author to counter such a price drop by Amazon... Basically get them to explain why they dropped the price. At which point the onus is on the author to initiate any needed action to remove the "free" or reduced price content. Once that stuff is removed, or confirms to your desired price point, the price should be able to returned to its initial price.

Except, the price restriction is considered a private contract between the publishing author and Amazon, and if break it, they'll terminate your contract (i.e. remove all your books).

Thus, you're not punishing the copyright thieves, you're instead publishing the legitimate right holders to the story, which is the wrong approach, since it penalizes an innocent party.

There IS no contract not to charge more than someone else's story!

As the author/rights holder, I think there would be grounds and some means for an author to counter such a price drop by Amazon...

It's in their T&Cs under pricing. So, as an author, you agree to it.

Same author, same list of books at Goodreads

Goodreads is a story review site. A good place to post reviews.

Anybody check Ebay yet?

It also is owned by Amazon since 2013, so its hardly surprising that a book listed on Amazon is listed on Goodreads. How else is Amazon going to get people to buy seemingly obscure e-books from their catalog?

Once they bought it, any book published via Amazon is automatically listed on Goodreads, which is annoying, since I post to Goodreads on my own, so end up with duplicate Amazon listings. I wish there was a way to prevent Amazon from listing my books there, since they don't list as much information as I do, or list to my other books.

I would think that because its considered porn. Most DA's will not bother to prosecute the theft, not enough publicity for them. Now distribution might be another story, but they would have to be able to both identify the person as well as serve the required warrants locally (in other words arrest) the perpetrator.

I think that's part of what we're seeing. No one seems to be stealing the non-porn material (except someone stole my least successful story, "The Zombie Leza"), instead they're focusing on primarily stroke material, or at a minimum "much sex".

So there's little chance that my 'some sex' epic made it to Amazon

They grabbed my no-sex "Zombie Leza", which sold only a couple of copies, so apparently 'they'll' grab anything. However, that case was tried to my postings on LinkedIn (someone was casing author discussions looking for books to rip-off). Veronica West and her ilk seem to be focused exclusively on porn and stroke stories, though it also sounds like she's going down the SOL list alphabetically, so they just may not have gotten to everyone yet. :(

No, you don't necessarily need the *AAs pushing it.

DS,

The only cases of copyright theft like this that I've heard of being dealt with by the US feds were where the the double AAs (as in arrogant assholes) got involved and applied political pressure to get it done. Little guys like us will be ignored.

I took a look at the company yesterday. It is one of those "We will print your book" companies.

I tried the isbn but no hit on Ebay, will try again.

One other thing I noted was this book was printed in 2004, so this shit head has been doing this for a long time.

Does Amazon sell anything other than stolen erotic stories? :(

I suspect that I know the answer to this already but - Is there anyway for an Author who has been plagiarized to get the name and banking information of a Plagiarist from Amazon, Ebay, or other bookseller, Publisher, etc?

I suspect that I know the answer to this already but - Is there anyway for an Author who has been plagiarized to get the name and banking information of a Plagiarist from Amazon, Ebay, or other bookseller, Publisher, etc?

I doubt it, but if Amazon get enough complaints the account gets closed and Amazon keep the money, thus the thief gets nothing for their work.

I doubt it, but if Amazon get enough complaints the account gets closed and Amazon keep the money, thus the thief gets nothing for their work.

Nope. The copyright thief keeps everything Amazon paid them up until the point they got caught, and you, as the legitimate author, gets zip. What's more, if they offer it for free, you get nothing unless you file for a copyright yourself (which is somewhat pricey for each book (separate copyrights for each different version of the same book), however that would entitle you to sue for compensatory damages. :(

The copyright thief keeps everything Amazon paid them up until the point they got caught,

You're right in any payments made they get to keep, but what we've reported should be too soon for any payments to have been made yet, due to the time gap between when Amazon get paid and they pay the author. All the money Amazon collects during that time Amazon keeps. Which means the thief gets screwed by not getting anything for the work.

now if we can get people like cmsix etc to lodge complaints we can really cut into the thief's income.

Unless his health has taken a major change for the better. The odds are slim. As far as I remember he has never mentioned giving the right to represent him about copyright issues to any member of his family. I do admit I scrolled through the lists a little bit as the links were posted. I think they stole the majority of his work, some with the same title.

I hate to impose on his already limited time, but what about if Lazeez were to contact them, stating that he's represented the artist's works since 19xx, knows the works are stolen and that the artist in question is no longer able to either post or publish anything? He can surely document the date of the first posting, as well as offering proof of who cmsix was (based on his email address, at least), even if he isn't authorized to speak for him.

The form that Ernest provided offered a 'reader' copyright complaint. In this case, as long as the thiefs don't collect anything, I really don't care whether Amazon keeps the money or not (normally, in a copyright dispute, they're supposed to pay the rights holder any outstanding balances, rather than keeping it themselves).

I sent off a list of the plagiarized stories to Amazon's legal department. Asked them to notify the group that is supposedly vetting stories for copyright violations. Didn't do any good based on their reply. Apparently, they will only respond to the copyright holder, and then only for that book.

Now it seems to me that Amazon cannot be held accountable for selling plagiarized stories up to the point where they are notified that a person is a plagiarist and is given a list of the plagiarized stories. However, after that point Amazon is aiding and abetting a thief in selling stolen property. I wonder what would happen if a someone were to file a charge like that against Amazon.

Only way it'd stand a chance of being even remotely viable is as part of a class action lawsuit brought forward by ALL of the affected authors.

It's virtually impossible to enter into a class-action copyright lawsuit, as you need to document individual losses, plus that's the way copyright law was written. The mainstream publishers used to fight these battles, but no longer do because they no longer have the cash-on-hand to justify it. That's why most small-time independent publishers simply don't bother filing a lawsuit, simply because they'd never recoup enough expenses to justify the initial investments.

That is my understanding. Amazon isn't going to just give you the information. You're going to need a court order before they turn any data over about the author in question.

You'd be surprised. The guy who stole my Zombie Leza was operating a website full of stolen copyrighted books right in downtown Pheonix. If they have a website, you wouldn't need a court order, a copyright lawyer can access the owner of the website (even if it's hidden) to identify who to serve papers on. Plus, a cease and desist order always sounds more impressive when it's served by a law firm specializing in copyright law, vs. some average Joe who knows nothing about the law or publishing.

Between eBay, Amazon, createspace and other sites, you can figure out who's who without a major court fight with a juggernaut like Amazon.

I suspect that I know the answer to this already but - Is there anyway for an Author who has been plagiarized to get the name and banking information of a Plagiarist from Amazon, Ebay, or other bookseller, Publisher, etc?

The only way to get that information is to hire a professional copyright lawyer (someone who specializes in copyright law for large publishing companies). They can file the proper paperwork with both Amazon and the relevant judges and get their identities revealed, allowing you to privately sue them for damages.

CW

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073PJRZHS/ref=sr_1_51?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1499286354&sr=1-51&refinements=p_27%3Ak+sanche

edit to add, sorry, just hit it with 1 star to discourage readers.

Thanks for the notice. Since no one has had any luck with Amazon so far, I went though createspace, who have been able to intervene with Amazon when Amazon won't respond otherwise. Hopefully they might get it into the correct hands, but only time will tell.

It seems Amazon has all but abandoned trying to police their copyrighted works (it's always been impossible to contact anyone at Amazon for any reason whatsoever).

It seems Amazon has all but abandoned trying to police their copyrighted works (it's always been impossible to contact anyone at Amazon for any reason whatsoever).

It does take time, but I have had some success with the form at

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/reports/infringement

usually 3 to 7 days, or more. But gets the story taken down.

t does take time, but I have had some success with the form at

https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/reports/infringement

usually 3 to 7 days, or more. But gets the story taken down.

Thanks for the link, Ernest. I filed the form (though I clicked the "seller" link, and it wouldn't recognize my Amazon ID, though it did work when I filled in the information on the page listed, however.

We'll see how quickly they resolve it.

Now that I know someone pilfered my other works, I'll have to start searching for my own stories more often, as I have a hell of a lot to check!

if Amazon indicates a duplicate

Not likely to happen unless the stories are reported and they check on them. The latest thief stole Power Tool which has had an Amazon lsting for some years - despite all my efforts to get it removed.

The 'Kiwi's' are even worse. (New Zealand)

Tell me about it.

In the USA a chilli bin is where you store your vegetables called a chilli, while in NZ a chilli bin is plastic cube you put ice and drinks in to get them cold (we in Australia call it an Esky, after the first company to make and sell them here).

Each place has some unique terms and customs. I still haven't figured out wht those drivers in Boston kept referring to me as 'Chowdah Head' or why CHPD threatened to pull me over for only going 10 mph over the speed limit in LA.

why CHPD threatened to pull me over for only going 10 mph over the speed limit in LA.

For driving too slow

why CHPD threatened to pull me over for only going 10 mph over the speed limit in LA.

you didn't have a studio sticker on the windscreen, so you shouldn't have been in the area.

You point up some valid things. When I read through some forum posts I can't complain much to Lazeer.

I found 5 stories:

KindaSortaMaybeNerdBoy - Bluedragon
Revenge - Bluedragon
Life After Love - Bluedragon

Kathy Learns - Dark Vision

Kampars Wand - Darkniciad

I did an advance search using her name and the romance category.

Just an odd question, has anyone had a story plagiarised by these people that was only ever posted on SoL?

Yes. My stories are only posted on SOL and not on those other sites. This is the first time my stories have been stolen, in previous efforts mine got left alone -- maybe because they are all low sex stories.

Yes. My stories are only posted on SOL and not on those other sites.

This is about the fifth time for me, and always by some grub on Amazon using crap images that have no bearing on the story for their cover art.

In this round the first one (veronica) hit all my Cazna initiated stories in the first half of the alphabet, while the second grub (sanche) hit the rest of the alphabet of Cazna stories - I'm waiting to see what happens when they get to the authors with the letter E because it seems they've only hit A, B, and C authors.

Excellent, though I suspect they'll pop up again in a few days under a whole new name.

Both Veronica West and K Sanche pages seem to have completely disappeared from both amazon.com and amazon.co.uk when I checked this morning.

I just checked and Veronica West still has 6 novels on amazon.com while sanche has 71 listed on amazon.com

locks Aus viewers out of parts of US Amazon in an attempt to force us to use the Aus based Amazon

Is that new? Like as of July 1?

Amazon, ebay, Alibaba, and others threatened to block Australian users if the law requiring them to collect GST went into effect on July 1.

Kinda Sorta Maybe Nerd Boy by bluedragon

That's currently the Random Story ;)

AJ

Thank you. But I'm suspicious you may have just been given a corporate-speak brush-off :(

AJ

Although we can't disclose the outcome of any investigation, we appreciate your role in maintaining the integrity and security of our website.

Translation: Although we refuse to tell you diddly, please leave us the FUCK alone, as we know all and control all, and whatever we say goes!

I'd take a statement like that more seriously if they ever took corrective action about anything!

Yeah, a second corporate-speak brush-off. :-(

They didn't need to send a second response. They said they'd look into it and that I won't be informed of their findings. That's all they had to do.

Evidently, the first person forwarded it to another department. That means it simply didn't go into the trash can.

I guess I'm more trustworthy. If someone is abusing their system they will try to stop it.

More trusting, not trustworthy.

LOL yeah