Forum: Author Hangout

You do realize, don't you, that it's a mistake to recommend something better? No good deed goes unpunished!

Yes, but I've built up a huge lot of good-deed credits thanks to the gestapo playing their games.

Have you tried using Libre Office?

I tried OpenOffice a long time ago before LibreOffice was around. It loaded so slowly that I deleted it immediately. I guess it's because it's one huge program instead of separate programs for Word, Excel, PowerPoint, etc.

But I'd try it again IF I new the format of the file when you save it as docx was identical to what it would be with native Word.

But I'd try it again IF I new the format of the file when you save it as docx was identical to what it would be with native Word.

Simple to do, download Libre office - it's free - and try it.

One of the reasons for LO to split from OO was they wanted it leaner, meaner, and less Java than OO had.

Simple to do, download Libre office - it's free - and try it.

See, it's little stuff like this that make being on this forum worthwhile.

Nowhere else on here has anyone said that LibreOffice is free. That's the reason I've been using OpenOffice for years. (Well, that, and because I could download it at work, when they took away all of our Microsoft Office stuff due to having to pay licensing fees.)

Time to get the download going and check it out.

Time to get the download going and check it out.

https://www.libreoffice.org/

Simple to do, download Libre office - it's free - and try it.

I can't. I'm on my wife's Mac and she doesn't have Word.

And she won't let me install any software so I can't try out the LibreOffice docx with Calibre. I'd have to install both on her Mac.

The problem is it's a show stopper for switching from PC to Mac. I need to be able to create the ebook from a word processor doc (without manually converting it to XHTML)

And she won't let me install any software so I can't try out the LibreOffice docx with Calibre. I'd have to install both on her Mac.

I can't help with that much. I have used both Libre Office and Calibre on a system running Linux and on a system running Win 7 and the .odt to e-pub conversions came out exactly the same.

I've also opened Libre Office on a Linux system at the same time as my brother opened his Word on his Win 7 system and I was open and working before he was. And he had the more powerful laptop.

He did once mention he found opening all software on his Win 7 system became slower and slower after each security update - but that was something to do with Win 7. His wife got do fed up she 'Restored' her Win 7 system to the factory settings and turned off the updates. Her system opens everything a lot faster than his system with all the security updates. So the speed issues mentioned by some are more likely OS related.

I have used both Libre Office and Calibre on a system running Linux and on a system running Win 7 and the .odt to e-pub conversions came out exactly the same.

I didn't know you could feed an ODT file into Calibre. I thought it had to be a docx. If that's so, I could simply use Libre Office and not worry about Word.

But somebody is sure to rise up and tell me that Calibre won't work, Word and .docx is the only valid way, there is no good output possible from a text file, and so on... and don't forget, if it's free, it's got to suck big ones.

No good advice ever goes unpunished.

Getting paranoid, are we?

I didn't know you could feed an ODT file into Calibre. I thought it had to be a docx. If that's so, I could simply use Libre Office and not worry about Word.

I don't know why, but when you go through the Preferences settings the option of ODT doesn't show up - only Comic, FBS, PDF, RTF, TXT, DOCX. However, if the file you import through the Add Books icon selection process is an ODT file when you open the Title in the main program and use the convert books icon the top left corner has an input option of ODT - well, it does for me using Calibre 2.18 and has since Calibre 1.72. I've been using Calibre to make e-pubs fro a few years.

The problem is it's a show stopper for switching from PC to Mac. I need to be able to create the ebook from a word processor doc (without manually converting it to XHTML)

I've always done it longhand, saving each chapter as "formatted html" and then compiling the html chapters into one source for the ePub.

It's more work than submitting one .docx file, but at least you know what you're getting and can make as many adjustments as you want. If I wasn't doing that, I'd never have learned how to turn off all the 'gotcha' default settings (like Amazon's dreaded single-space indent for blockquotes). Seriously, who can tell the difference in a single space in a variable-spaced font?

Calibre is written in Java and works exactly the same across platforms.

Not pertinent to this discussion, but that may not be true - it certainly wasn't when I was developing Java applications. Java, the language, is the same on every platform, but the Java Runtime Environment is platform specific and used to cause perceptible differences.

AJ

No discernible differences to my crusty old eyes.

That's why I expected my observation to be impertinent to the thread. But in ye days of olde, the team had to do quite a lot of tweaking to make sure the application was usable on all the required platforms.

Ah, the good old days. I remember them well so I wasn't there :)

AJ

I run Calibre on Win-Mac-Linux devices. Whatever goes in all three seems to trigger the same reactions; and what comes out seems to achieve the same results. No discernible differences

You can feed a docx file into Calibre, but not a doc file. So there must be formatting in docx that's not in doc. With a docx file, if you use the Header 1 on the chapter names Calibre generates the ebook Table of Contents. I was wondering if Word on the Mac does that too.

Right. docx has xhtml document structure content, which is the basic structure of epub, etc. That translates easily in Calibre.

But is the docx file created by Word on a Mac identical to the one created on a PC? I'm thinking what Calibre needs.

For that matter, the same question when LibreOffice saves it as docx.

For that matter, the same question when LibreOffice saves it as docx.

I'm not sure on that one, because Libre Office lists two save options for .docx files. One is listed as Office Open XML Text while the other is listed as MS Word 2007-2013 XML if they were exactly the same format code they'd be listed as the same thing. While the first is an Open Document Standard and the other is an MS Word version with MS being well known for ignoring standards, it's had to say how different they are.

However, having said that, in the past I have saved a story as MS Word .docx to send to one of my editors to work with because, for some weird reason, their version of MS Word couldn't handle a .odt file but used .docx as its default. When the edited version of the story came back there were only three things different - other than the edits-

1. Page margins and gutters had changed - -
2. The Record Changes data from the MS Word version wasn't readable in any way.
3. The font had changed from Palatino Linotype 10 point to a mix of Times New Roman 12 point with Courier 12 point in some places.

In the several stories that were handled with me sending them the .docx files they all came back with the same issues.

I suspect the first with the margins was due to the way MS Word handles the margins so different to most other word processor programs, and I found it easy to fix, but annoying.

Apart from it just being MS using very different code, the issue with the change recording has never been explained.

I always suspect the font issue was likely due to the editor's system not having a copy of the Palatino Linotype font available to it through their MS Word software. But that never explained why the font size changed and why the font change wasn't uniform through the document.

When the edited version of the story came back there were only three things different - other than the edits-

1. Page margins and gutters had changed - -
2. The Record Changes data from the MS Word version wasn't readable in any way.
3. The font had changed from Palatino Linotype 10 point to a mix of Times New Roman 12 point with Courier 12 point in some places.

In the several stories that were handled with me sending them the .docx files they all came back with the same issues.

That's one vital problem with submitting .docx files to Calibre, as WORD insists on assigning specific font's to each paragraph type, while ebooks prefer you don't (if you want a specific font in an ePub, you've got to embed it, which gets prohibitively expensive as that requires a separate font license which often runs 10+ times as much as the "professional" license.

The only way to turn off that 'automated' WORD feature is to redefine each paragraph Style in the ebook/ePub's CSS definitions.

The idea, in ebooks, is that the reader controls the font, character sizes, etc., whereas WORD leaves that control with the creator of each individual document. That works find within large organization, but things screw up when you read someone else's document and try to convert it.

But is the docx file created by Word on a Mac identical to the one created on a PC? I'm thinking what Calibre needs.

Their identical, though it's important to turn off all the internal record keeping crap (ex: grammar check, name checks, foreign language check, etc.), at least in .doc files, as those embed code in the file and any subsequent saved documents (i.e. html to use in web pages). That's typically what clogs 3rd party programs, as they're not geared to handle all of the internal WORD crap.

Has anyone asked Calibre? I mean I will, I'm a huge fan of that software.

Has anyone asked Calibre? I mean I will, I'm a huge fan of that software.

Only to the point of using Google, but I haven't had much time lately to do a thorough job. I didn't know Calibre had a contact form where you can ask questions. I'll look for that. Thx.

ETA: Just found a FAQ on Calibre. This is from it:

What are the best source formats to convert?

In order of decreasing preference: LIT, MOBI, AZW, EPUB, AZW3, FB2, DOCX, HTML, PRC, ODT, RTF, PDB, TXT, PDF

I converted a PDF file, but the result has various problems?

PDF is a terrible format to convert from. For a list of the various issues you will encounter when converting PDF, see: Convert PDF documents.

It seems to like docx more than odt. And I still don't know if the odt file will create the TOC. But it's a good start. (interesting that it likes docx more than html)

It seems to like docx more than odt. And I still don't know if the odt file will create the TOC. But it's a good start. (interesting that it likes docx more than html)

As long as you use standard "Header 1" (H1) formatting for your chapter titles, you'll be fine. In fact, you can specify qualifiers under "Convert Book>Table of Contents" and detailing the Level 1 TOC. You can also edit the TOC after it's created, and I frequently add (html) commands to force specific entries in my books.

I didn't know Calibre had a contact form where you can ask questions. I'll look for that. Thx.

On their webpage they have some links across the top

https://calibre-ebook.com/

Depending on what you want to do you follow the relevant links. One time, about a year or two back I asked for a change to the way Calibre worked via the Bugs link and three weeks latter the new update had the change included because it made sense to them, and when I lodged the bug report it got a lot of support from other users. So they do listen to users,

One time, about a year or two back I asked for a change to the way Calibre worked via the Bugs link and three weeks latter the new update had the change included because it made sense to them, and when I lodged the bug report it got a lot of support from other users. So they do listen to users,

They apparently listen to a lot of people, because every time I pull the program up, there's another update! They're on a continual revision cycle.

They apparently listen to a lot of people, because every time I pull the program up, there's another update! They're on a continual revision cycle.

There seems to be minor tweaks each week - I think the guy has nothing to do but play with it all day every day. But it downloads a copy of the latest version when you do an update, so missing a few doesn't hurt - unless the changes you missed could've helped during that time.

So there must be formatting in docx that's not in doc

The proprietary format code for the MS Word file type known as .doc has

.doc as used in Word for DoS
.doc as used in Word for Windows
.doc as used in Word for Windows 2a
.doc as used in Word 97 - 2003
.xml as used in Word 2003 XML
.docx as used in Word 2007 to 2013 XML

There are many fundamental differences between each version of the file format. The differences are such it's often not possible to open a file in a version of Word that wasn't created in that version or the one immediately before it and still have it readable and displaying properly. Due to so many of the variance within the .doc format many companies refuse to deal with it.

But, I hear that Office 365 works very similarly on the Mac now as Windows.

I was in the Apple store today and happened to get a salesgirl who was MS certified.

She brought up Word on the Mac. We made the chapters Heading 1. Word did change the format, but on the PC it creates a TOC on the left of the document (in draft view) which helps navigate the doc. It wasn't there on the Mac. So that's one difference. As to what happens internally to the formatting that allows Calibre to create the TOC, who knows if it's the same.

You can license Word on a Mac and pay every year, or you can buy it for (I think) $149. You won't get updates other than security updates, but that's okay.

Word did change the format, but on the PC it creates a TOC on the left of the document (in draft view) which helps navigate the doc.

Switch,

That's often a setting the user selects. With Libre Office the default setting is just the page of text, but there are extra sub-windows you can dock on the left, right, top, or bottom of the page in the document. The last time I looked at MS Word it was the same there. What you saw may well have just been how the display machine was set up.

One of the great draws to Office 365 is that it comes with 1TB of cloud storage on OneDrive.

Something to think about if you cross devices and platforms often given the costs of iCloud. Kill two birds with one stone. I think you get 5 copies of Office 365 for $99 a year, and can install it on PCs or Macs.

I also tried Libre Office at Ernest's Suggestion a while back. D-E-A-D S-L-O-W It didn't last an hour on my hard drive after installing it.

is that it comes with 1TB of cloud storage on OneDrive.

You get plenty of space on DropBox without having to buy any other products.

The point was that if you have a need for Office you get 1TB of storage. Not that 1TB of storage was on it's own wasn't cheaper somewhere else.

BTW I'm a huge user of Dropbox.

I also tried Libre Office at Ernest's Suggestion a while back. D-E-A-D S-L-O-W It didn't last an hour on my hard drive after installing it.

That was my experience with the same result. But I'd try it again.

She brought up Word on the Mac. We made the chapters Heading 1. Word did change the format, but on the PC it creates a TOC on the left of the document (in draft view) which helps navigate the doc. It wasn't there on the Mac.

You need to go into "View" and turn on the proper setting. Since I'm not on a Mac today, I don't recall what it is, but it's easy to generate the TOC (Headers) view.

You need to go into "View" and turn on the proper setting. Since I'm not on a Mac today, I don't recall what it is, but it's easy to generate the TOC (Headers) view.

Good to know. Can't test it because my wife doesn't have Word on her Mac. Thanks

I have noticed strange characters cropping up in posts that I have last edited on Word for Mac when I attempt to post them as .txt files.

I've seen the same thing, but search-and-replace usually cures it. EDIT TO ADD: There is hidden coding in Word's "txt" file (not a surprise, there's hidden coding everywhere). It's not clean.

The big difference I've had between Windows and Mac with Word is the lack of easy keystroke shortcuts on the Mac. Windows has (had?) the lead there. You can set up shortcuts on the Mac, however.

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easy keystroke shortcuts

Many moons ago, when MS Word 2a was released I read an article by MS that all the old MS Word for DoS shortcuts were still embedded in the code for MS Word. Some years ago when I had to use the MS Word with the ribbon on a Win 7 system for a course at the tech college I tried my old Word 1 shortcut cheat sheet (yes I horde things) and found they all worked, thus I could do things faster than fighting with the ribbon. I suspect the shortcuts are embedded so deep in the original source code no one at MS has cleaned them out. I do know someone doing a recent course on how to use the current MS Word was told there are few keyboard shortcuts, and then found everything on my cheat sheet worked despite not being on the official list.

Some years ago when I had to use the MS Word with the ribbon on a Win 7 system for a course at the tech college I tried my old Word 1 shortcut cheat sheet (yes I horde things) and found they all worked, thus I could do things faster than fighting with the ribbon.

Exactly. I'd never touch Windows again with a ten-foot-pole, but I miss the easy shortcuts. You can set them up on the Mac and it's a little tedious, but they work and often work across applications, always assuming the application was coded the way Apple wanted.

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The key with the keyboard shortcuts on a Mac, is the Mac operating system makes inter-program controls more difficult to institute, so most 'keyboard' controls won't work. That's why there are few third-party controls triggered by system-wide key presses. They work within each program, cut won't work between programs, or at a system-wide level.

That's either a Mac thing or something to do with the program developers of the Mac programs, because the basic Unix code underlying Mac has a large number of system-wide keyboard shortcuts that work across many programs, and the very same shortcuts work in Linux as well. Many of them are even the same shortcuts used in Windows and DoS operations, like 'Ctrl' + 'C' to copy and 'Ctrl' + 'V' to paste.

That's either a Mac thing or something to do with the program developers of the Mac programs, because the basic Unix code underlying Mac has a large number of system-wide keyboard shortcuts that work across many programs, and the very same shortcuts work in Linux as well. Many of them are even the same shortcuts used in Windows and DoS operations, like 'Ctrl' + 'C' to copy and 'Ctrl' + 'V' to paste.

That's the odd thing, copy and paste do work across programs, but other tools (like pressing the PrintScreen key to capture a video image) won't, because it's set up to circumvent the Mac's controls.

I find Calibre is easiest working from HTML. Then again it's been quite a while since I last tried it.

The first time I used it, I inputted an HTML file. The second time, a docx file (with the chapters defined in Word as Heading 1). Much easier the second way.

Plus the master copy of my novel remained in Word for changing (with the 2nd way).

The first time I used it, I inputted an HTML file. The second time, a docx file (with the chapters defined in Word as Heading 1). Much easier the second way.

Since I include graphics (chapter titles, section breaks and chapter headers), ePub creation is more problematic, so it's easier for me submitting html files (plus, I get to strip out all the crap WORD dumps into the file, which is preserved your way), though building your own CSS would eliminate most of it.

OpenOffice Calc requires semi-colons to separate the parameters of functions where Excel requires commas.
Try that and good luck.

When I took out the last comma, the LibreOffice error went away. So it excepted commas.

But I bought Microsoft Office. I'm up and running on Word and Excel.

Thanks anyway.