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Use of Other Languages in a Story

SindeeM 🚫
Updated:

I have a story where the characters are having a meeting where they don't trust each other. They all speak English. In certain circumstances where two of the characters are from Central America, they converse in Spanish. So an example would be one person says in Spanish "We don't need these people." The actual Spanish would be something like "No necesitamos a esta gente."

If I use the Spanish language, how do I let the reader know what they are actually saying?

I will have several of these types of dialogues. For instance, in this case there is one person that does not understand Spanish. So he asks in Italian to his partner, "What did they say?" The Italian would be something like "Che hanno detto?"

Just wondering if there are suggestions on how to handle this?

Thanks

jimq2 🚫

@SindeeM

Foreign language in italics followed by the English translation in parentheses. I've even seen this in mainstream dead tree books.

Michael Loucks 🚫

@SindeeM

I put foreign languages inside guillemets. If it's in a non-Latin alphabet, I put the transliteration in parentheses and italicize it. The translation follows the sentence/paragraph in parentheses, but not italicized.

See, e.g., my series 'A Well-Lived Life' (especially Book 3) and 'Good Medicine' (any of the first six books).

mrherewriting 🚫
Updated:

@SindeeM

If the POV character doesn't understand, why should anyone else?

And if the Italian asks "What did he say?" and his partner translates, then you can have someone who doesn't speak Italian ask, "What are you telling him?" and the guy says, "I'm translating."

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather not know than see translations in a story.

jimq2 🚫

@SindeeM

Personally, since I am not conversant in multiple languages, I want to see translations of foreign comments.

helmut_meukel 🚫

@SindeeM

There is another problem with conversation in a foreign language, at least if its a contemporary story setting.
The author should be certain the sentence(s) are formulated as a native speaker of this language would speak, could even be spoken in a dialect of this language, but never be obviously bad translations of the English text. Too many of your readers may have enough knowledge of the language and put off by the attempt. Then it's better to write something like

So he asks in Italian to his partner, "What did they say?"

without actually using the Italian words.
It's not so problematic if the story is set in the far past or future. Spelling and grammar and word sense have changed in the last 800 years and will in the next 500 years to make it hard for most readers to distinguish between a bad translation and those time induced changes in the language.

Let me cite another author's thoughts about this:

Another comment worth discussion was that "the characters are not well educated, in some cases can't even read well, but use sophisticated words that they would be unlikely to know." I'm troubled by this, too. Mark Twain famously had uneducated characters using uneducated language, but that prose could be challenging to read. Another thing to consider is that modern, uneducated people often use many words specific to their community. Words that educated people don't know and find confusing.
Since I'm thinking of Ky's universe as a parallel world, splitting from ours in the Middle Ages and developing separately since then, we'd have to expect that much of their language wouldn't be understandable to us. After all, Shakespeare's actual writings are famously difficult for modern English speakers to read or hear—and he lived 500+ years after King Arthur. Thus, if you were to think too much about this, you'd have to conclude that what you're reading is my translation of their speech to our modern English and that such a translation might therefore include some words that modern uneducated people wouldn't use (and fail to include words present amongst Ky's contemporaries but unknown to us).
Someone quibbled over the use of the word "tire" to describe metal straps around wooden wheels. They actually were called tires back then, though it was originally spelled "tyre."
[Dahners, Laurence. Healer Magic]

HM.

Replies:   jimq2
jimq2 🚫

@helmut_meukel

You also need to consider where the foreign language speaker is from. A Spanish speaker from Spain will talk differently than a speaker from Mexico.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@SindeeM

Here's one way I did it in my novel "High School Massacre." In the scene, Steele is the POV character and doesn't speak Spanish. They are standing outside Bella's house. Perez is the drug lord. Manuel is Bella's husband.

"Let me go in first," Bella said.

"Okay. If everything's all right inside call out 'All clear' and I'll be right in. If Perez's men are in there, keep quiet and somehow get your family away from the men. I'll be coming in shooting."

Bella entered the house and closed the door behind her. Steele heard children shouting "Mama, Mama," and then a barrage of words in Spanish he didn't understand. Steele waited and soon heard the "all clear" call from Bella. He went into the house with his gun in hand just in case.

"¿Y quién es ese?" Manuel said with his eyes fixed on Steele.

The man didn't seem to be a threat so Steele dropped his gun to his side.

Bella was pressing her children to her legs, one on each side. They both stared up at Steele with wide eyes. Bella looked at Steele and then her husband. "Speak English. He's an American who is going to help us."

First, Spanish was spoken that Steele didn't understand. I didn't bother writing what the children were saying.

But when he entered the house, the husband said: "¿Y quién es ese?" I didn't bother translating it for the reader because Steele didn't know that the man said "And who is that?" which someone told me is the way someone in Mexico would ask who he was. I took care of it with the wife's answer in English: "He's an American who is going to help us."

So her answer in English should tell the reader her husband asked who Steele was. Does that work? *shrugs*

REP 🚫

@SindeeM

If I use the Spanish language, how do I let the reader know what they are actually saying?

Simple. When introducing, the dialog just say - In Spanish, hedf said... and then write it in English.

The Horse With No Name 🚫

@SindeeM

There is no one size fits all solution to this. In my "It's always the Germans" universe I have people speaking English, German or Russian. I often leave it ambiguous, which person speaks which language, as most of the characters are fluent in English and German, so the reader can make up his/her mind themselves.

In situations it is an integral part of the plot to point out that someone is speaking German or Russian, I put the text in italics (Russian in this case transliterated). Often I do not provide a translation because

a) I gave it before. That is usually done for characters who have a signature catchphrase.

b) it often is part of the plot that other characters do not understand and only find out as part of the plot

In some cases I do provide the translation in parentheses, dor instance if there is too much foreingn language in quick succession.

Replies:   Dinsdale
Dinsdale 🚫

@The Horse With No Name

Douglas Fox's https://storiesonline.net/s/21675/coming-to-nuremberg (set in the years around WW2) suffered under the author's inadequate command of German. He seems to know some of the basics but fell woefully short when it came to putting them to (virtual) paper.

The Horse With No Name 🚫

@Dinsdale

Yeah. That's why I only use languages I'm fluent in. Native readers would notice when you use substandard translations.

Replies:   Dinsdale
Dinsdale 🚫

@The Horse With No Name

I ain't no native - and my written Germ is way less than perfect - but that was ridiculous. It was a very interesting tale but he needed a bilingual proofreader and the one I suggested back then was busy at the time.
Someone like you would be perfect ;-)

The Horse With No Name 🚫

@Dinsdale

Perfection is not needed. Sometimes it is even better if a character doesn't speak perfectly. For instance, especially English speaking people rarely get the articles 'der, die, das' right when speaking German.

However, and I hate that especially in WWII movies, when you have characters that speak some stereotypical fake German. It gives you ear-cancer.

Replies:   jimq2
jimq2 🚫

@The Horse With No Name

Or worse yet, when they speak English with a horrendous fake German accent. Think of Sgt Schultz in Hogan's Heroes.

The Horse With No Name 🚫

@jimq2

Funny you mention Hogan's Heroes. This show and M.A.S.H were two shows that were much funnier in the German-dubbed version than the original. They were done by a legendary voice-actors company (for instance Hogan and Hawkeye had the same voice actor). That company also did all the Bud Spencer and Terence Hill movies, making them all better than the original versions.

Replies:   Dinsdale
Dinsdale 🚫

@The Horse With No Name

Ever heard of "Love at first bite" (Liebe auf den ersten Biss")? A spoof vampire movie with George Hamilton, I found the dubbed version better than the original but must admit it has been a very long time since I watched either.

BarBar 🚫
Updated:

@SindeeM

This is an excerpt from a story I am currently drafting. This is what I'm doing. I don't claim any expertise in this topic, but I hope it will get the idea across.

"Rhosyn? Beth yw e?" I asked, dropping automatically into my native Welsh. ("Rose? What is it?")

She glanced at me, then went back to staring out of the window.

"Mae rhywbeth yn digwydd yn Gistonis," she whispered in reply. ("Something is happening in Gistonis")

I swapped from Welsh to English.

"What are you saying?" I whispered.

"It's started," she replied, her voice still soft but definite.

...

I don't know any Welsh. I used online translation programs which I know aren't perfect. When I post the story I'll include a blanket apology for any mangling of language I've committed, and invite any native speaker to provide an improved phrasing of equivalent meaning.

The Horse With No Name 🚫
Updated:

@BarBar

I usually solve these things like that. It has the upside of not being dependent on a translation program getting it right:

I was rattled out of my thoughts when Nadja came to stand next to me. She was expected to take over again and had already put on her balaclava, which made her look like she was preparing to rob a bank.

"Had fun last night?" she asked me in Russian. I couldn't see her face, but I could hear the amusement in her voice.

"Does everybody know?" I asked back in the same language.

"We have no secrets among us," Nadja said. "And besides, Lydia expects me to ask if he was good."

I had to laugh. Yep, that sounded like Lydia. If she was lending me her sweetheart for a night, she wanted to be sure he had been what I had hoped for. In a way I had been the same, wanting to know if Ian's birthday with Lydia had been what his dreams had promised.

"Tell her, he's been fantastic, and then some," I said, giving Nadja a light slap on the butt. "Now go out there and give them hell. Good luck."

You establish early on that they speak a different language and since one person is leaving the situation, in this case Nadja taking over the car from her team mate, you have a defined frame in which Russian is spoken. The reader knows they are talking to each other, but writing it out in actual Russian wouldn't really add anything to the scene in my opinion.

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