Please read. Significant change on the site that will affect compatibility [ Dismiss ]
Home Β» Forum Β» Author Hangout

Forum: Author Hangout

cliche - killed by drunk driver

Switch Blayde 🚫

I've heard people complain about authors using a drunk driver to kill a character as cliche. I'm writing a scene in NYC in the 1800s and needed to kill a character. I originally wrote:

"Abigail was too young to remember it, but everything changed when her father was trampled in the street by a runaway horse-drawn wagon."

But when I reread it, I felt it was missing something. Why was it runaway? So I added the reason at the end of the sentence:

"Abigail was too young to remember it, but everything changed when her father was trampled in the street by a runaway horse-drawn wagon that a drunken man had fallen off of."

Now I have a drunk driver in the 1800s killing a character. Cliche? *shakes head*

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@Switch Blayde

If you don't want to be so cliche, you could change the event slightly.

"Abigail was too young to remember it,... ...when her father was kicked in the head by a draft horse while trying to cross a crowded street. She heard several neighbors gossiping, they said something spooked the horse causing it to rear up; but no one seemed to know why."

Replies:   Soronel
Soronel 🚫

@Paladin_HGWT

I have a recent story where I found it very useful to have someone killed by a drunk taxi driver. Mostly it explained why an otherwise do-nothing type has a fortune (thanks to the lawsuit stemming from the action).

Pixy 🚫

@Switch Blayde

But when I reread it, I felt it was missing something. Why was it runaway? So I added the reason at the end of the sentence:

Doesn't have to be because the rider was drunk. The horse could have been spooked and threw it's rider. Perfect example happened four days ago in Londinium.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68887800

The same reason why those horses were spooked could easily be the same reason your horse was spooked. Construction work in/on a large building in NYC. It's the 1800's, so no H&S. No physical demarcation between the construction work and passers-by. A large stone... something... is dropped, crashes near to the horse, which bolts, etc etc...

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Pixy

A large stone... something... is dropped, crashes near to the horse

Noooo, please make it a piano :-)

AJ

Replies:   Pixy  solitude  oyster50
Pixy 🚫

@awnlee jawking

πŸ˜‚

solitude 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Noooo, please make it a piano :-)

... or a ceiling? https://youtu.be/vQ6LXJCp9IU
(Brit humour, may not appeal to all.)

oyster50 🚫

@awnlee jawking

Oh come on, people! Where's your sense of decorum?!?

Drop an anvil on him. With a nearby empty ACME box.

Replies:   samuelmichaels
samuelmichaels 🚫

@oyster50

Drop an anvil on him. With a nearby empty ACME box

Hahaha!

When I toured New England towns, it's amazing how many people died in fires. houses were built of wood, and fires had to be maintained during long cold winters.

Of course, infectious deceases were also very common causes of death in the 1800s. Just something like "he died of red fever".

William Turney Morris 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I had an ancestor in 1870's Sydney, who died when he fell from the upper level of a double deck steam tram. He was noted as a drunkard, so he was a drunk rider...

DBActive 🚫

@Switch Blayde

According to NHTSA the percent of traffic deaths involving drunk drivers is about 32%, you are twice as likely to die in an accident involving a sober driver. The financial result for the victims family won't be much different if they were killed by a drunk or sober person.

Replies:   Soronel
Soronel 🚫

@DBActive

Depending on circumstances I would expect a drunk to possibly result in a higher payout in US courts. That is extremely negligent behavior, the sort that leads to massive punatives.

Of course, whether the drunk can pay or not is a different question.

Replies:   Pixy
Pixy 🚫
Updated:

@Soronel

I was watching a Youtube video earlier, where a car refused to stop and sped off. A pursuit followed and was eventually stopped at an intersection via stinger.

The two fleeing individuals crashed into several cars and were trapped in the car. Turns out, the two individuals had stolen the car, killing the previous owner in the process. Bail was set at something like 900K dollars, which they had no chance of paying. It was mentioned that those injured would not bother suing the 19 year old driver, as there was no money to be had and he was due to spend the 50 odd offences on his rap sheet that he had collected before this particular endeavour, consecutively.

The police had obviously tried to stop traffic from approaching the junction, however, one seventy odd year old man in his pickup, decided that the road block did not apply to him and drove around it, where upon he intersected with one speeding and punctured car. Although he survived, his wife of 50 odd years died a few days later.

Given that there was no point in suing the young men, he is suing the police instead for her death. Somehow failing to take responsibility for driving around the bright flashing police cars and basically killing his own wife because this is 'Merica and no-one tells him what to do...

Edit: Swapped out 'concurrently' for the slightly more sensible 'consecutively'

Soronel 🚫

@Pixy

I don't expect that suit to result in much of anything but lawyer bills. Suing the cops in the US is an uphill battle under the best of circumstances.

Replies:   DBActive
DBActive 🚫

@Soronel

There wouldn't be any lawyer bills. This would be a contingency case and if there was a high-speed chase, almost any personal injury lawyer would be happy to take the case: solid liability and a source of funds for the recovery.

Dominions Son 🚫

@Pixy

Edit: Swapped out 'concurrently' for the slightly more sensible 'consecutively'

You may think consecutive is more sensible (and I would agree), but my understanding is that concurrent is more likely.

Replies:   Pixy
Pixy 🚫

@Dominions Son

but my understanding is that concurrent is more likely.

They specifically charged him so that his sentences would run consecutively, ensuring that he basically spends the rest of his life in jail. This was done because he was already on bail for other offences at the time of the incident. He pleaded guilty to all charges in the hope of a more lenient sentence. He received 70 odd years.

DBActive 🚫
Updated:

@Pixy

The lawsuit against the police would likely be based on their pursuing the driver in a high-speed chase. In urban and high population suburban areas many or most police departments have a policy against that. The reason is that capturing one felon is not worth endangering a large number of people. Conducting such a chase is dangerous and negligent especially if you suspect the driver is drunk, high or inexperienced.

As to a lawsuit against the driver, the fact is that the recovery in practical terms is usually limited to the insurance policy limits and, in most states, crime victim compensation. That's why people pay for uninsured and underinsured insurance.

Replies:   Pixy
Pixy 🚫

@DBActive

Conducting such a chase is dangerous and negligent especially if you suspect the driver is drunk, high or inexperienced.

Granted, but in this case, I think the police may well point out that the old man failed to stop and failed to adhere to the instruction of a police officer at the scene. Yes, the police caused the crash, but it was the man's fault/responsibility for putting himself and his wife in a situation of danger when instructed not to.

Had he stopped where indicated, he would never have been involved. Which going by the bodycams, is what the officers said at the scene. The old man gambled, and lost both his wife and truck. If I was his insurance company, I would look at the cams and scene reports and decide that driving around the police cars was both a deliberate act and negligent and therefore invalidates his insurance.

Replies:   DBActive
DBActive 🚫

@Pixy

The old guy might be responsible to a certain extent but IMO, no jury is going to hold him primarily responsible.
I would be shocked if his UM/UIM didn't offer the policy and the police didn't offer a generous settlement.

irvmull 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Abigail was too young to remember it, but everything changed when her father was trampled in the street by a runaway horse-drawn wagon.

No need for the awkward "that a man had been shot off of."
Horses spook easily, and wagons back then had only rudimentary brakes that would do little to even slow down a runaway horse. All the driver could do would be to hang on and hope the horse would tire, or that someone on horseback would be able to help. Probably not many cowboys on horseback in NYC...

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@irvmull

Probably not many cowboys on horseback in NYC...

Not cowboys. They were out west.

But it happened in the late 1860s so coaches and wagons were the means of transportation in NYC. In the late 1800s, there were nearly 200,000 working horses in NYC.

So you think the part added is awkward? I sort of too. Maybe I don't need it after all. Thanks.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Not cowboys. They were out west.

Wasn't there a TV series about a horse-riding cowboy who got seconded to the New York Police?

AJ

mauidreamer 🚫
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

McCloud 1970-77. Taos, New Mexico, Deputy Marshal, on loan to NYPD as investigator.

actor was Dennis Weaver, better known as "Chester", primary deputy to Marshal Dillon on Gunsmoke.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@mauidreamer

Thanks, that's the one I was thinking of.

So, not really a cowboy :-(

AJ

Switch Blayde 🚫
Updated:

@awnlee jawking

Wasn't there a TV series about a horse-riding cowboy who got seconded to the New York Police?

A movie too. "Coogan's Bluff" starring Clint Eastwood.

AZ sheriff goes to NYC to bring a fugitive back. Fugitive escapes. AZ sheriff hunts him down in NYC and locks horns with the NY cop. But it took place in modern times, not back in the 1800s.

Dicrostonyx 🚫

@Switch Blayde

To my mind the clichΓ© isn't that someone was killed by a drunk driver; statistically in the US, 32% of traffic fatalities involve at least one person who has been drinking with an average of 37 people dying every day as a result of an alcohol-impaired accident.

The clichΓ© is the way that these deaths are used in stories as a fault-free excuse to end a marriage at a young age. If you looked at all SOL stories involving parental death due to drunk driving, I'd be willing to bet that a high percentage of them are a single man raising a daughter who becomes interested in him sexually with most of the rest having someone who was about to be screwed in a divorce and suddenly being freed of that.

It's the way the clichΓ© is used that's the problem.

Replies:   Grey Wolf
Grey Wolf 🚫

@Dicrostonyx

See: 'fridging', a term used to describe stories where a character (usually female) exists only to be killed / maimed / put into a coma / whatever in order to motivate action on the part of the protagonist and has no other particular point in the story.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Can you track down data about the frequency of causes of deaths in NYC in the 1800s? Perhaps deaths from diseases like Cholera or Smallpox were common.

Or you could look around a cemetery dating back to the 1800s and read the gravestones.

AJ

Replies:   DBActive
DBActive 🚫

@awnlee jawking

It's the way the clichΓ© is used that's the problem.

The Epidemic Century
From at least 1791 to 1900, New York City experienced frequent and devastating epidemics.[3] One can even say that epidemics were a regular part of life. The "normal" baseline death rate in New York City, in a good year, in the first half of the 19th century was between 25 and 30 deaths per 1,000 residents. But constant epidemics continually moved the city above that rate. Epidemics often doubled the death rates above the baselines. Between 1804 and 1887, there were at least 25 epidemics, for an average of one every three years. In fact, in the years 1834, 1849, 1851, 1854, 1864-1865, and 1872, two epidemics were occurring at the same time.

The Diseases
By far, up until 1875, the most frequently recurring epidemic was from smallpox. This is ironic since a vaccine was known since the early 1700s. Yet it did not entirely disappear from the city until after 1902 (though a brief resurgence came in 1947). Two diseases tied for second, in terms of frequency: typhoid/typhus fever, and cholera. Typhoid/typhus fever was transmitted through contaminated food and water, and from direct contact with the infected. Cholera was also spread by contaminated food and water. Additionally, Yellow fever was a regularly appearing epidemic, which first arrived in New York in 1791 and disappeared after 1822. It was transmitted by mosquitoes, which likely spawned in the marshes and still waters of the island.

Arguably, the worst year for the city was 1849 (just at the height of immigration from the Irish Potato Famine) when over 5,000 people died of cholera, and the death rate spiked to 60 deaths per 1,000 residents. The additional deaths from cholera, if scaled up to today's population count, would amount to the equivalent of about 95,000 additional deaths in 2019! And, in the three years from 1847 to 1849, there were some 8,000 reported deaths from typhoid, cholera, and smallpox combined.

Panic in the City
The random emergence of the epidemics caused the same kind of panics then as we see with coronavirus today. As one scholar writes about the 1832 cholera outbreak,

On Sunday, July 2, despite a calculated official silence, the existence of the first cases of cholera in the city was an open secret. Mass exodus from the city had already begun. To those able, flight was the immediate and traditional reaction. A hyperbolic and sarcastic observer remarked later that on Sunday "fifty thousand stout-hearted … New Yorkers scampered away in steamboats, stages, carts, and wheel barrows." Farm houses and country homes within a thirty mile radius of the city were filled.

The feeling of dread was a common element of city life, as historical demographer, Gretchen Condran, writes,

Cholera and yellow fever defined the practical and emotional meaning of epidemics during the late eighteen and early nineteenth centuries. Virtually no deaths from these two diseases were recorded in the nonepidemic years. They arrived suddenly, ran their course in a matter of months, and then returned some years later with little or no warning….That a person could be well in the morning and dead before nightfall, a stark contrast to the lingering illness associated with many epidemic diseases like tuberculosis, added to the fear and panic that accompanied these epidemic diseases.

Was Density to Blame?
While I will have more to say about the role of urban density and epidemics in a future post, suffice it to say, the relationship between population density and the severity of epidemics is not so simple. Dense tenement districts were often hot spots for the epidemics, and the poor disproportionately suffered more than the rich, many of whom fled the city during the crises.

But over time, diseases like yellow fever and cholera would largely be eliminated, even as the tenement districts became more crowded. While poor hygiene and lack of sanitation were part of the problem, so was the city-wide environment. New York City, then as today, was a great hub of economic activity, and it was mainly through the port that diseases would enter and spread.

At the time, when germ theory was still not largely understood, health officials assigned blame for these diseases on many factors that seem strange to us today. There were also moral dimensions to their assessmentβ€”the poor immigrants huddled together in their dank, dirty tenements were responsible for these diseases because of their poor characters. Or as stated in an 1865 report by the Association for Improving the Condition of the Poor in New York (likely referring to the Irish),

[L]arge masses of the population are debased by the wretched condition in which they are compelled to live. These conditions should be improved; still, it would be true of many thousands, that if left to the uncontrolled indulgence of their reckless, filthy habits, they would convert a palace into a pigsty, and create "fever-nests" and hotbeds of vice and corruption, under circumstances most favorable to health, comfort, and social elevation.

https://buildingtheskyline.org/mortality-nyc-1/

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@DBActive

Thank you.

I wonder whether SB will avoid a contemporary cliche (drunk driver) by substituting an 1800s cliche (death by epidemic ;-)

AJ

LupusDei 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

How about construction accident?

While such deaths surely were dwarfed by epidemics and possibly traffic and what not, such is still very plausible, imho, in an era construction sites had little to no safety precautions at all.

I don't know when serious high rise building started in NY, but chances are it was already ongoing at least in limited sense, and even if not, construction like was significant occupation.

P.S. in addition to possible fall from significant height, an absolutely hellish, nearly suicidal occupation in pre-mechanized construction was to drive the drum of the crane. It was done by people (from one to many, depending the size of the crane) walking or rather crawling inside a very literal hamster wheel that provided the lifting force through a series of gears. Mechanical failures in those would result not only to the lifted cargo to drop, but also the lifting wheel to be energetically spun at high speeds, with dire consequences for the occupant(s) of it. It was, subsequently, often occupation for poor or desperate disposable people.

I don't know how long or if at all such devices where used in NY. This type of nightmare is largely associated with European middle ages cathedral building. However, prior to, and possibly in parallel to early mechanical engines, it was the standard construction crane mechanism for a long time.

Dominions Son 🚫

@LupusDei

I don't know when serious high rise building started in NY

https://www.designboom.com/architecture/timeline-new-york-tallest-buildings-wooden-observatory-one-wtc-06-08-2021/

DBActive 🚫
Updated:

@LupusDei

I don't know about buildings but the Brooklyn Bridge in the 1880s resulted in 20-40 construction deaths.
Even with current worker safety laws there are about 50 construction worker deaths every year in NYC.

LupusDei 🚫
Updated:

@LupusDei

absolutely hellish, nearly suicidal occupation in pre-mechanized construction was to drive the drum of the crane. It was done by people (from one to many, depending the size of the crane) walking or rather crawling inside a very literal hamster wheel that provided the lifting force through a series of gears. Mechanical failures in those would result not only to the lifted cargo to drop, but also the lifting wheel to be energetically spun at high speeds, with dire consequences for the occupant(s) of it. It was, subsequently, often occupation for poor or desperate disposable people.

To follow up on own rabbit hole, it's apparently called "treadwheel" crane. Wikipedia talks exclusively about Roman and medieval history, but ChatGPT says using such in NY during 19th century was "likely".

Switch Blayde 🚫

@LupusDei

How about construction accident?

Nah, he was trampled by a runaway wagon (I took out the guy being shot off the wagon). The only reason for it was that he was killed when the MC was too young to remember him and to force her mother into prostitution to survive. I just thought getting trampled by horses was a good way to kill someone off and believable. The drunk driver part was a thought that came later. It made me laugh because of the era so I thought I'd share.

Harold Wilson 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Now I have a drunk driver in the 1800s killing a character. Cliche? *shakes head*

Mix it up a little bit - the horse was drunk!

Replies:   LupusDei
LupusDei 🚫

@Harold Wilson

Never heard of drunk horses. Drunk elephants however... is there a tiny village in Congo called New York?

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@LupusDei

Never heard of drunk horses.

When English newspapers used to report news rather than the opinions of bloviating clueless numpties, there were occasional 'human interest' articles showing drinking in pubs by dogs, parrots, donkeys etc, and I believe horses have been photographed with their snouts in beer glasses. Whether they can get drunk or not I don't know. But allegedly the film 'Cat Ballou' has a scene with a drunk horse.

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@awnlee jawking

I believe horses have been photographed with their snouts in beer glasses.

I think I've seen similar. However, there's a relationship between body mass and how much alcohol it takes to get drunk.

I would expect that it is possible for a horse to get drunk but it would take a lot of alcohol. A horse is more than 5 times the body mass of an adult male human. So it should take at least 5 times as much alcohol as it does to get a person drunk

Switch Blayde 🚫

That's going into way more detail than I want to.

It's not about how the man died. It's a flashback about how the girl grew up. I prefer a one-line sentence simply to say her father died when she was very young. The only purpose for that is because it left her mother penniless with no way to earn a living other than prostitution, and for the girl to grow up in a brothel (which forced the mother to make a critical decision when the girl reached puberty). But even that wasn't described in a lot of detail.

The one sentence (for now) is:

Abigail was too young to remember it, but everything changed when her father was trampled in the street by a runaway horse-drawn wagon that a man had been shot off of.

Replies:   Paladin_HGWT  akarge
Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@Switch Blayde

The one sentence (for now) is:

Abigail was too young to remember it, but everything changed when her father was trampled in the street by a runaway horse-drawn wagon that a man had been shot off of.

Your reasoning is sound. IMHO that is a good change from your dislike of having a "killed by a drunk driver" trope.

Cheers.

akarge 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

That's going into way more detail than I want to.

O

Obviously you now need to specify the weapon, number of shots, etc. ;-)

Replies:   Radagast
Radagast 🚫

@akarge

Don't forget caliber, charge and bullet weight, how heavy the patch was. Gun Porn has certain conventions to follow. Excessive detail is one, making a fetish of steel hard long black rods is another.

Replies:   akarge
akarge 🚫

@Radagast

That was all listed, as ETC. ;-)

Back to Top

Close
 

WARNING! ADULT CONTENT...

Storiesonline is for adult entertainment only. By accessing this site you declare that you are of legal age and that you agree with our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy.


Log In