Forum: Author Hangout

2 (or more) POV Characters

PotomacBob 🚫

As a reader, I usually find it difficult to follow a story in which there are 2 or more point-of-view characters.
I also have a WIP, with 1 POV, and I find that very limiting.
When I've read a story with 2 narrators, it usually has been alternate chapters - one narrator for one chapter, a second narrator for the second chapter (often covering the same time period as the first chapter, just from a different point of view.)
If you have two POV characters, how to you handle it when the two characters interact with each other? If your alternate chapters cover a specific time period (Say, maybe, a month), how do you transition from the end of the month in one month, then back to the beginning of the same month in the next chapter?
What other difficulties and advantages are there to the number of POV characters? (Aa a reader, the more POV characters, the more confusing. I read one story with at least six POV characters; very difficult to follow).

Replies: Switch Blayde Michael Loucks REP helmut_meukel Paladin_HGWT Quasirandom Dicrostonyx

Switch Blayde 🚫
Updated:

@PotomacBob

When I've read a story with 2 narrators,

By this quoted statement, I assume the story is written in 1st-person with each POV character using the "I" pronoun. I have no advice on how to do that because I don't think it should ever be done. For me, it defeats the purpose of 1st-person and also can be extremely confusing to the reader. The only advice that comes to mind is to have each narrator's voice distinct so the reader knows who's narrating without even being told.

If you want a story written from more than one character's POV, write it in 3rd-person limited multiple. Change the POV character at a scene change (often a new chapter). Establish the POV character (may not have changed from the previous scene), time, and place as soon as you can to orient the reader.

I'm not a fan of rewriting the same scene from another character's POV. I find those stories/movies boring. I like the plot to keep moving forward (not go back and rehash what happened from the other character's POV). Saying that, it could be an interesting technique. The movie "Courage Under Fire" is a good example. What's interesting is each POV is unreliable and the main character has to determine what the truth is.

Replies: awnlee jawking redthumb

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I'm not a fan of rewriting the same scene from another character's POV.

I recently read a story where exactly that happened. The story wasn't awful but I was able to skip half of it without missing anything.

AJ

redthumb 🚫

@Switch Blayde

The only advice that comes to mind is to have each narrator's voice distinct so the reader knows who's narrating without even being told.

I read a book by Rod Perry telling about the history of the Iditarod Trail called "TrailBreakers—Pioneering Alaska's Iditarod Vol 1". In dealing with the history he uses people that involved in that segment of the narrative, using their accents and sentence construction. While I will admit, it was a little difficult to understand a semi-educated (at best) person 'speaking' in semi-learned English. He wroth in 'standard' English. There was no question who was speaking.

IF this hits one on your hot buttons, volume 2 is the story of the first Iditarod race.

Michael Loucks 🚫
Updated:

@PotomacBob

Check my series A Well-Lived Life 3 as it has eight POVs (Steve plus each of his kids). You can see how I perform the transitions and decide if that might work for you.

Given the first two series were first person, I didn't feel comfortable shifting to 3rd Person Omniscient.

I think it worked, but I know it's not for everyone.

REP 🚫
Updated:

@PotomacBob

When I've read a story with 2 narrators, it usually has been alternate chapters

I use section breaks between narrators within a chapter. If there may be any ambiguity as to who is speaking in the new section or chapter, I identify the new narrator - (e.g. Jess has the narrative).

I don't use alternating chapters and I don't have the next character repeat all of the prior chapter. I will introduce the change in narrator, and then have that character address specific topics when the new narrator has something to add or dispute.

how to you handle it when the two characters interact with each other?

The interaction is typically dialog, not narrative. I preface the dialog by identifying the speaker, who may or may not be the narrator. In the dialog, especially multiple paragraphs of dialog, I will reference the person being spoken to. I have a habit (bad ?) of long sections of dialog, which are basically monologues. I try to identify the person being spoken to every couple of paragraphs (e.g. "John, I know you don't agree, but ...") That is especially true when the speaker is speaking to multiple people. When the speaker is going to speak to a different character, I create a new paragraph and identify who the speaker is now speaking to.

I read one story with at least six POV characters;

Do you mean 6 main characters interacting? I think of the POV character as the person presenting the narrative, and there can only be 1 narrator at a time. However I can see how trying to keep 6 points of view separated can be difficult and confusing. The impression of multiple POV characters in a conversation is probably due to dialog by multiple characters stating their opinions. It could also be poor handling of the handoff of the narrative to the new narrator.

helmut_meukel 🚫

@PotomacBob

Read oyster50's "Smart Girls" universe, especially the "Community" stories (Community, Community Too, Community Three Sigma, Community Four(Ever), Community Moving On, Community — Still Here [in progress]). They are written in first person like diary entrances and he changes the narrator sometimes more than once within a chapter. It's often because the MC changes and the previous narrator wasn't present and/or doesn't know all the details.

I think oyster50 does this quite well with very few rehash.
The MCs tell the story from their POV with their thoughts and emotions. The alternative would be to tell the story in third person omniscient.

HM.

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@PotomacBob

I mostly write military fiction.

I mostly write in the Third Person, limited.

I want to depict the chaos and uncertainty of combat. So, the reader is "watching" from the perspective of a "Go-Pro" video 📹 camera on the PoV character's helmet. Occasionally, I might provide surface thoughts of a PoV, character (as if they were muttering under their breath).

Without an "omniscient narrator" combat is too confusing. So, I provide the reader several perspectives, but Not complete information; so, there are surprises. However, if you see one character, a Platoon Leader get killed; it makes more sense when the Company Commander can't get him on the radio, and he is wondering why his left flank is collapsing.

When I change PoV character I have a scene header:
Location
Time

For example:
Little Roundtop
Early Afternoon

Colonel Chamberlain mopped his brow, his canteen had run dry an hour, or a lifetime ago.

His voice was gravelly when he asked, "Sergeant Major, when is the water party anticipated to return?"

Sergeant Major O'Neil said, "fifteen minutes Colonel. Sergeant Wilkins is most dependable. Sur'n he'll be here afore th' Rebs make anutter try at us."

Creek in the saddle between Little Roundtop and Big Roundtop
About the same time
Sergeant Wilkins glared at Private O'Learly when several canteens clattered together. Wilkins could hear several individuals slinking through the underbrush in the gully between his detail and the rest of the 20th Maine.

Will the thirsty soldiers get their water? Or will they be surprised by an attack on their flank?

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Paladin_HGWT

I want to depict the chaos and uncertainty of combat. So, the reader is "watching" from the perspective of a "Go-Pro" video 📹 camera on the PoV character's helmet.

That's my goal as well. What I find so hard not to do is tell the reader too much. That's why I don't write omniscient. (Plus I prefer to show and not tell and with omniscient I end up telling a lot.)

So back to the OP, do you really have to tell a scene from two character's POVs? You can tell it from one character's, and then later when in the other character's POV somehow provide information that was relevant to that scene but is not coming out until later.

As I said in the past, for me POV is the hardest part of writing fiction.

Replies: Paladin_HGWT

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@Switch Blayde

So back to the OP, do you really have to tell a scene from two character's POVs? You can tell it from one character's, and then later when in the other character's POV somehow provide information that was relevant to that scene but is not coming out until later.

Certainly it is possible to tell the other characters perspective later. Some writers may be able to do that well, in some stories.

Too often, I don't think that works well.

If a lover plans a surprise for her boyfriend, and we see it through her perspective; it is not likely to be engaging to see it later from the man's perspective; we know the surprise.

The tension is highly unlikely to be there, if you know the outcome.

Thus, in my example in an earlier post: Colonel Chamberlain knows the bigger picture, the situation of the Regiment, his orders from his superiors, and he knows he has sent out subordinate units to do specific missions (and so does the reader).

Cutting to the Sergeant leading the patrol, he knows of the immediate situation: possible enemies on the flank of the Regiment; not only interfering with his mission to get water, but could threaten the flank of the Regiment.

If I only told the story from the perspective of Colonel Chamberlain, then the reader would only know of the threat on the flank if the Sergeant tells the Colonel, or if there is a surprise attack.

To me it is easier to show potential threats, and to create greater suspense, by having multiple PoVs.

There are plenty of good stories that are best told from a single PoV. But this post is asking about using multiple PoV.

Replies: Switch Blayde

Switch Blayde 🚫

@Paladin_HGWT

If a lover plans a surprise for her boyfriend, and we see it through her perspective; it is not likely to be engaging to see it later from the man's perspective; we know the surprise.

No, later you see the guy's reaction to the surprise. They happen at different times.

Quasirandom 🚫

@PotomacBob

I'm very fond of first person narrators, and sometimes the story is of a size and shape to want two perspectives on what's going on—especially when it's a romance. So I've a little experience with this.

My key advice: make each narrator a distinct character with a distinct way of talking. Clear voices helps so much.

I always have at least a section break, if not chapter break, when I change narrators. I often note who's speaking at the start, but sometimes I trust the reader to know who's talking. I never repeat a scene in two perspectives—it almost always diffuses tension, when I come across it. Which means practicing the fine art of choosing, any given scene, who narrates it. This is not an easy skill.

My rule of thumb is to choose the narrator who has the most at stake in the scene. This sometimes isn't obvious during the first draft, but it's usually pretty clear.

Sometimes, more than narrator has a lot at stake in a scene, in which case I often switch POV in the middle. Choosing the right moment is hard, and I often find myself adjusting it in edits. But I usually feel it worth it.

Dicrostonyx 🚫

@PotomacBob

I also have a WIP, with 1 POV, and I find that very limiting.

Limiting is the point.

This won't help with your writing issues, but as to your mind-set going into writing I would suggest:

1. Multiple POV is for when you want to tell a story.
2. Single POV is for when you want to explore character development.

Obviously there's a lot more to this conversation than that, and either writing style can be used for either type of story, but this should help you to focus on what you want to achieve.

The purpose of using a single POV of to focus on that one character's experience. You're not explaining the broader scope of the story. There is no ultimate truth or falsehood. Mistakes will be made and that's the point. You're focusing on what this one character is experiencing and how they react to it.

While limiting to write, these kinds of stories can often be the most fun to read.

If you have two POV characters, how to you handle it when the two characters interact with each other?

The same way you handle multiple characters in a single POV story. Unless you are doing something very strange with your POV -- which I highly discourage for anyone who doesn't have a professional editor -- each character is the only POV character to themselves.

If you're in Adam's chapter and everything is Adam's POV, then Brian isn't a POV character, Adam is. Brian's thoughts, emotions, and knowledge are only important to the extent that they are communicated to Adam and Adam cares to listen to them. In Adam's chapter, alternate-POV character Brian is no different than non-POV character David. They are both third parties.

If the conversation is vitally important to both characters, then when you later get to a Brian chapter you can reference it. I wouldn't retell it; most audiences get bored by repetition. The fancy way of handling it is to have Brian act in a way that shows that their understanding of the conversation is different than Adam's, but if that's not feasible a short flashback or reference to Brian thinking about the conversation will work.

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2 (or more) POV Characters

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