Forum: Author Hangout

I typically don't fret about scores that much, although I do watch the trend in scores (whether the scores move up or down for a given chapter). I've been a bit perplexed by the strong associated sales and the positive comments but the lower scores, but from what I'm hearing, I may be looking at two audiences, one who likes the latest story, and one who doesn't, and it's the second group who may be lowering the scores. But again, if you don't hear from readers, it's difficult to understand how they think.

But Lazeez's set up discourages no-scoring stories. There are several authors who don't allow scoring, but they typically do so because watching the scores distracts, rather than informs them.

and then jump a tenth or so the week after they conclude.

I always start a multiple post story at 5, and then increase/decrease the rating after each chapter is posted, if warranted. At the end, I make my final rating. Assuming others do something similar, that is probably why you see the increase after the posting is complete.

I always start a multiple post story at 5

See, CW, that's what I meant by over analyzing. There's no rhyme or reason to the scores given. Each individual, like REP, has their own methodology. I would never score the way he does, and probably many others wouldn't, so merge the way he scores with the way A scores and the way B scores, etc. and what does the result tell you?

And since the score is basically how much the reader liked it, you could take the story in a direction they don't like so they'll lower their score. You interpret that as something you did wrong -- that the chapter brought the score down so it must be bad. Well, it might be great, just not liked by some reader. Maybe they wanted the hero to live and you killed him off. Maybe they wanted the guy to get the girl and he got a guy instead. The score is simply appeal, nothing more.

I always start a multiple post story at 5, and then increase/decrease the rating after each chapter is posted, if warranted. At the end, I make my final rating. Assuming others do something similar, that is probably why you see the increase after the posting is complete.

As I noted, I tend to see the opposite happening. When the story first finishes (within the next day or two) the scores will jump, but then the readers who haven't been reading all along will come along, and the scores drop within a few days as you get more 6s and 7s from those not excited about the basic premise.

The scores then increase, as people discover the stories afterward, but initially after the story completes, the scores tend to drop.

My mind isn't really here today. When I wrote the post, I remembered you saying they increased. OOps!

My mind isn't really here today. When I wrote the post, I remembered you saying they increased. OOps!

I was describing different trends, it's easy to confuse.

I recently made a blog post about ongoing serials I'm enjoying the most. Mentioning no names, a number of popular stories are hovering between one and two stars in my ratings system, and I'm biding my time to see if there's a consistent improvement before considering adding them to my list.

AJ

One approach I have seen, if you are concerned about low initial scores, is to disable voting until part or even all of the story is posted. Or refuse voting entirely, although that discourages some readers from reading the story at all.

Stories without scores do not show up in certain searches, also a minus factor.

bb

Stories without scores do not show up in certain searches, also a minus factor.

I'm not concerned with the scores, but I just wonder why my lowest scoring book has some of the most positive feedback associated with it. There's a disconnect which bothers me, and until I figure out what triggers it, I'll keep picking at the scab.

"Love and Family During the Great Death" also had a low score, though it's risen over time, and for good reason (I killed off everyone's favorite characters), but I'm still proud of the work, even though many people can't make it through the entire story. But as long as I understand their reasoning (and why they wanted more of the story they couldn't finish), I'm fine with the lower scores.

I think many authors make a mistake by posting just one chapter to start a new story. If the story is a slow starter, consider posting two, three or even more chapters to start so that you're into the meat of the story and have people hooked.

That's what I do when I write a sex story. If there's no sex in the first chapter I post the beginning chapters through the one with sex.

If the great Russian novels were to post only chapter one on SOL, no one would ever get beyond the first chapter.

I can't get through the first chapter. "Great" in one person's eyes is not in another's.

Currently I think I will write the whole story and then re-arrange some parts so that it starts at the most interesting point near the start.

That is VERY hard to do well. One of the worst books I ever had the misfortune to try and read did just that, then went back several months to where the story actually started. It made ti hard to follow what was going on, and had what should have been the finishing climax as the opening scene, I never did finish chapter 2 of it, because I was totally lost by then - yet the author concerned wrote some great stuff, just messed that one up because the publisher wanted a more dramatic lead in first chapter and that was the only one dramatic enough.

That is VERY hard to do well. One of the worst books I ever had the misfortune to try and read did just that, then went back several months to where the story actually started.

Very much a style in some U.S. TV series a couple of years ago, perhaps still is: open with a climactic scene then flash "Two days earlier" (or whatever) and go back. What BS.

bb

Very much a style in some U.S. TV series a couple of years ago, perhaps still is: open with a climactic scene then flash "Two days earlier" (or whatever) and go back. What BS.

I've always had trouble with flashback scenes, though in a recent book, I got around it by breaking the story into segments. The scene starts at the beginning, when the primary crisis begins, continues for several chapters, then breaks into a separate section where it flashes back to the main character's background for a couple of chapters before flashing to her opposition character's histories, eventually flashing forwards to what happens after those initial (first) scenes. I think the transition is simpler and easier to follow, but they're largely defined by the nature of the book.

I've always had trouble with flashback scenes

I guess you didn't like "Prince of Tides." The story is told through flashbacks. I only saw the movie, but the the book had more flashbacks than the movie.

I guess you didn't like "Prince of Tides." The story is told through flashbacks. I only saw the movie, but the the book had more flashbacks than the movie.

For Pat Conroy, writing as he does on characters with a history of abuse by one's father, flashbacks make sense. You start in the present with the dilemma, an adult child wrestling with how to cope with an elderly parent he's never felt close to, and then he continually flashes back to the abuse he's suffered over the years, which tells the back story in small, incremental increments.

Isn't that redundant? Can you have non-incremental increments?

I realized that when I wrote it, but couldn't think how to better express it. I meant, the ideas build slowly, a little at a time (i.e. you eke the information out at a steady rate). If I said, "increments" in means "in small portions", instead of "in measured portions".

Incrementally wouldn't work?

I'm having an incredibly bad week and haven't been able to get much of anything accomplished. I should actually back up and delete all of my recent posts (including those where I defend my past stories against comments made to other authors). :(

If I can't write fiction, I probably shouldn't be trying to express my ideas on the forum either.

I want a strong start but my choice of the first person may have made it very difficult.

What does the POV have to do with a strong start?

Start the story as close to the inciting incident as possible or pick a scene that simply piques the reader's curiosity.

Starting with her getting out of bed is boring if all she's going to do is wake up, brush her teeth, and eat breakfast. But imagine a beginning where she wakes up in a strange bed. What goes through her mind? What are her emotions? Where was she and how'd she get there? Now when she gets out of bed the discovery begins.

Thinks of strong first person starts...

How about Lovely Bones

My name was Salmon, like the fish; first name, Susie. I was fourteen when I was murdered on December 6, 1973.

The only issue with that is that its currently just after getting out of bed in the morning and I want to avoid starting the book by getting out of bed.

Ha-ha. Have him/her fall out of bed instead. He/she can then curse, mentioning how the day has already started off badly, potentially foreshadowing what's to come. You can then shift past the obnoxious parts about someone waking up (i.e. shift to the conversations over breakfast or at work/school).

The only issue with that is that its currently just after getting out of bed in the morning and I want to avoid starting the book by getting out of bed.

Heinlein did that in one of his last novels, can't recall the title but someone here will, featuring the mother of Lazarus Long. It opened along the lines of, "I woke up with a cat and a man in bed with me. I recognized the cat. I didn't know the man. Besides, he was dead."

And then she goes on to muse about waking up once with a barbershop quartet or something like that.

bb

Going back, I believe I posted the first three chapters in Magician within the first week, because it is a slow read and the first chapter in my opinion is not a strong one.

Regarding starting with multiple chapters, I find few of my regular readers follow the 'new stories' list, so I tend to post a single chapter, let it sit for a few days, and then post any follow-ups so the chapters (say the prologue and first chapter) will show up on the "Series Update" list at the same time.

I also tend to post book covers, character lists, etc. when I post the first chapter. The "New Stories" list might attract a few readers, at most, but most of my readers only pay attention to the "Series Update" list. Historically, "New Stories" tend to focus on short stories while "Series Updates" tend to feature longer works that take time to read (i.e. they unfold slowly and over time). Thus they form different audiences (and blog readers generally form an entirely separate group of readers).