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Do your adjectives clutter your writing?

Switch Blayde 🚫

From a Writer's Digest article:

Adjectives suffer the same general malady as adverbs—usually, they are too numerous, they clutter up our writing, and they can turn a deft phrase into a ponderous mass. Consider:

"The house had an empty feeling to it, the air stale with undefined kitchen odors …"

This is a tight, dramatic description. But what happens when I add more adjectives to "prettify" it?

"The dark, dreary house had an empty, suspicious feel to it, the thick air stale and sour with undefined, scary kitchen odors …"

Do all these adjectives add much at all? An empty house implies something strange and sinister, so do I need "suspicious"? Do I also need "dark, dreary"? An empty house might be these things as well, but I'm not unmindful that a sinister house may also be bright and sunlit (though it does stretch my credibility a bit). At least, though, I should dispense with one of the two adjectives, either "dark" or "dreary" because taken together, they are a well-recognized cliché … and they almost mean the same thing.

But note the other bits of overwriting: if the air were stale, wouldn't it also be thick? And wouldn't it be sour, as well?

Daydreamz 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Overwriting is a perfect description❣️

KimLittle 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Overwriting. Smacks of an English composition class.

Or people trying to bump up the word count to make longer chapters so people will stop complaining about the length. ;-)

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

"The house had an empty feeling to it, the air stale with undefined kitchen odors …"

This is a tight, dramatic description.

I don't know. The combination of 'undefined' and 'kitchen' feels OTT to me. And I thought you were a fan of 'showing' - what is an 'empty feeling' and why didn't the author 'show' us rather than 'tell' us?

Which just goes to show that however something is written, some keyboard warrior will pick holes in it ;-)

AJ

Paladin_HGWT 🚫

@Switch Blayde

"The house had an empty feeling to it, the air stale with undefined kitchen odors …"

I agree with awnlee jacking, there should be more show, less tell.

I would use an adjective, or two:

"There is no furniture in the house, no one lives here anymore; the air is stale, with a lingering odor of rotting food, and rancid grease..."

(While it could be argued I am "telling" by saying: "no one lived here anymore" I am trying to evoke a forlorn feeling, with a statement by the narrator. "no furniture" could be because the residents are poor, or just moving in. I suppose I could have used: "abandoned house" another adjective, but IMHO that is "telling" just as much as "no one lives here anymore")

Replies:   Paladin_HGWT
Paladin_HGWT 🚫
Updated:

@Paladin_HGWT

Less tell, more show than my first try (but wordier)

"There is no furniture in the house; the only noise a squeak as I step upon a loose floorboard. In the dim light provided by gaps in the boards over the windows I see only my own footprints in the dust. The air is stale, with a lingering odor of rotting food, and rancid grease..."

solreader50 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Adjectives suffer the same general malady as adverbs

They surely do. This is one area where less is more. Take a copy of your writing. Take out all the adjectives and proof-read it. Only replace those adjective which are absolutely neccessary. You just gained 2 scoring points from me.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@solreader50

Take out all the adjectives and proof-read it.

Mark Twain said about the adverb "very" something like, "Replace every one with the word "damn." Your editor will remove them all and your writing will be better."

But adjectives are definitely needed in writing. It's when you overuse them that it's a problem.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

definitely needed

As opposed to needed? ;-)

AJ

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

definitely needed

As opposed to needed? ;-)

Touche

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking 🚫
Updated:

@Switch Blayde

Touche

I've probably used 'definitely' in that context in my writing. I've also used 'very', 'very very', 'really', 'really really' and others too. But I'm pernickety about not using literally when I mean metaphorically.

AJ

richardshagrin 🚫

@Switch Blayde

so adjectives are objectives.

LupusDei 🚫

@Switch Blayde

In my native language, we have no articles. So the only way to distinguish between a table and the table is by inflections of the adjective attached to it (with agree in count and gender, besides revealing object's definitiveness and own intensity. If it anyhow matter if the table is a or the, then I don't think of a noun, I seek a property that defines that.

For me is a small table or the blue table. So I'm very used to adjectives whose only real objective is to stress that the object is a thing as one of many or the definitive thing. There's no such function in English of course, but the adjective would likely linger, and remain there.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@LupusDei

a table and the table

I've recently been concentrating on that difference, switching "a" and "the" in my writing depending on how it best fits.

"the" is a definite article whereas "a" is an indefinite article. The only reason I know that is I just looked it up.

But "the" refers to a specific thing.

In your examples, I don't see the adjective making that distinction. If there was one blue table with a lot of white tables, then it would be "the blue table". However, if there was one small table with a lot of larger tables, then it would also be "the small table."

Replies:   joyR
joyR 🚫

@Switch Blayde

If there was one blue table with a lot of white tables, then it would be "the blue table". However, if there was one small table with a lot of larger tables, then it would also be "the small table."

If there was only one table with six chairs then it would be "a chair at the table".

LD's examples give a hierarchy of adjectives. It does not include articles etc because selecting which is appropriate does not change the hierarchy of the adjectives.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@joyR

LD's examples give a hierarchy of adjectives.

He said his language didn't have articles and was giving examples of using adjectives to depict how we use "the" and "a". I showed him how the adjectives don't do that.

Replies:   joyR  LupusDei
joyR 🚫

@Switch Blayde

My bad.

How blonde do I have to be to confuse LupusDei in this thread with Dicrostonyx in the What part of the English language drives you nuts? thread?

I think I need more coffee, more sleep or a lot of hair dye. Currently I feel like I have two brain cells and they are fighting for third place.

Normal (for me) service will resume sometime later...

Replies:   solreader50
solreader50 🚫
Updated:

@joyR

How blonde do I have to be

OK - you mentioned the word and started this.

Blond or blonde is as far as I am aware the only word in English which is currently gendered as in French or German. In other words, it takes on a different word ending if the subject is male or female.

A blond hunk.

A blonde bimbo.

With currently, I am discounting the now archaic steward / stewardess usage.

Replies:   Switch Blayde  joyR  DBActive
Switch Blayde 🚫

@solreader50

With currently, I am discounting the now archaic steward / stewardess usage.

Actresses nowadays refer to themselves as actors.

Why do they still have the Best Actress and Supporting Actress Oscars?

joyR 🚫
Updated:

@solreader50

I am discounting the now archaic steward / stewardess usage.

Actor / Actress

DBActive 🚫

@solreader50

Garner's Modern American Usage says "blond" is preferred in all senses as an adjective in American English; the Oxford English Dictionary says "in Britain the form blonde is now preferred in all senses."

The Associated Press Stylebook exhorts: "Use blond as a noun for males and as an adjective for all applications: She has blond hair. Use blonde as a noun for females." But that's a distinction seemingly honored more in the breach: Much of the time, we use the feminine "blonde" as both a noun and an adjective, regardless of the sex of the person.

Garner's warns of the inherent sexism in the distinction, saying "when we see a reference to a blonde (or a blond) we almost always assume it's a woman. To avoid appearing sexist, it's best to refrain altogether from using this word as a noun. In fact, some readers will find even the adjective to be sexist when it modifies woman and not hair."

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫
Updated:

@DBActive

Chicago Manual of Style doesn't address blonde vs blond but refers to the AP Style Guide and the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

First, note that the AP Stylebook updated its advice in 2020, when its entry for "blond, blonde" was replaced with an entry for "blond" under "gender-neutral language." (Subscribers to the AP Stylebook online can discover this by searching for "blond.") The new entry continues to advise using blond for the adjective regardless of gender (the feminine e ending is from the French). But it advises against using either blond or blonde as a noun except in a direct quotation, advice that applies equally to brunette (which, however, is rarely spelled brunet).

Though CMOS doesn't cover this topic, we like AP's new guidance, which discourages writing that would reduce people to physical characteristics or gender stereotypes (as in a phrase like "the blonde in the front row").

As for Merriam-Webster, Chicago usually prefers first-listed spellings over any variants; blond is the first-listed spelling for both the adjective and noun forms, so that's what we'd prefer. The entry for "blond" in Merriam-Webster doesn't currently (as of June 1, 2021) include a usage warning (cf. "broad," which Merriam-Webster labels "slang, often offensive" as a synonym for "woman"). But AP's advice suggests that it is best to be cautious when using either spelling as a noun.

Who knew that using it as a noun was sexist. I actually follow Grammar Girl's:

Most of the time, inanimate objects are treated as male. For example, if you have a blond wooden dresser, "blond" is spelled without the E. A recent exception though is that Starbucks uses the feminine form for its opens in a new windowblonde roast coffee. Maybe the marketing people believe we'll love it more if we think of it opens in a new windowas a woman or as female.

1. Avoid using "blond" as a stand-alone noun for men or women if you can easily rewrite your sentence or you think it may offend your readers.

2. If you do use the words as nouns, maintain the gender difference and use "blonde" for a woman and "blond" for a man.

3. Inanimate objects usually get the masculine form of the word.

4. When you're using "blond" as an adjective, use the masculine spelling, without the E, especially if you're in the United States.

Grammar Girl also addresses fiancé and fiancee:

Two that you may have seen before also come from French: "confidant" (and "confidante") and "fiance" (and "fiancee"), The AP Stylebook says to uphold the gender difference for both words, unless you need a gender-neutral option for "fiancee," and in that case, it recommends describing couples as engaged or planning to marry. The Chicago Manual of Style doesn't address "fiancee" and notes the feminine form of "confidante" but says it's fading from the English language.

LupusDei 🚫

@Switch Blayde

And it is impossible to show, because the facility doesn't exist in English.

In Latvian:

Zils galds = a blue table
Zilais gailds = the blue table
Zilāks galds = a bluer table
Zilākais galds = the bluest table
Zilā galde = the blue she-table
etc

No articles, but the article information is embedded in adjective form. That information doesn't survive translation; result is seemingly superficial adjective.

awnlee jawking 🚫

@Switch Blayde

As for Merriam-Webster, Chicago usually prefers first-listed spellings over any variants; blond is the first-listed spelling for both the adjective and noun forms, so that's what we'd prefer.

That sounds like a very lazy decision to me.

FWIW, 9 SOL stories contain 'blonde male' and 159 SOL stories contain 'blonde man'.

Some authors can't seem to decide between 'blond man' and 'blonde man' ;-)

AJ

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde 🚫

@awnlee jawking

That sounds like a very lazy decision to me.

As I said, I prefer Grammar Girl's.

By the way, Grammarly simply uses the gender adjective and noun.
A blond man.
A blonde woman.
The blonde (referring to a female).
The blond (referring to a male).

Actually, I do it the way Grammarly does it. And I don't care who I offend if I refer to a woman in a story as "the blonde sitting alone."

richardshagrin 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Tiger versus Tigress. I am not sure whether Eagle versus Egress show a female of the species.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son 🚫

@richardshagrin

I am not sure whether Eagle versus Egress show a female of the species.

Egress might show a female, but not a female eagle, a female egret.

mrherewriting 🚫

@Switch Blayde

"The house had an empty feeling to it, the air stale with undefined kitchen odors …"

Even that's overwritten.

"The house had odors." - Perfection.

Switch Blayde 🚫

@mrherewriting

"The house had an empty feeling to it, the air stale with undefined kitchen odors …"

Even that's overwritten.

"The house had odors." - Perfection.

I thought the example was very descriptive (yes, very) and put you inside the house. "The house had odors" doesn't really tell the reader much.

Replies:   Grey Wolf  mrherewriting
Grey Wolf 🚫

@Switch Blayde

Especially since part of the information (such as it is) is implied but not stated (that the odors are atypical for houses in the area).

A house near a paper mill (particularly a few decades ago) or a petrochemical plant will probably have all sorts of 'odors' - and so will every other house near it.

mrherewriting 🚫

@Switch Blayde

I thought the example was very descriptive (yes, very) and put you inside the house. "The house had odors" doesn't really tell the reader much.

Look above your head; there's a joke up there.

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin 🚫

@mrherewriting

Maybe zero doors? 0 doors.

Dominions Son 🚫

@richardshagrin

Maybe zero doors? 0 doors.

More likely Irish doors O'Doors.

mrherewriting 🚫
Updated:

@richardshagrin

Maybe zero doors? 0 doors.

That's a joke, but my joke was taking the example to the extreme and calling it perfection.

It seems everywhere I look it's "cut, cut, cut!"

How about writers just write what needs to be written in however many words they feel they need?

Replies:   Grey Wolf
Grey Wolf 🚫

@mrherewriting

Ahh, reductio ad absurdum. Points to you!

There is a Computer Science joke that follows this principle:

Every non-trivial program has at least one bug and at least one unnecessary instruction which can be removed.

Therefore, every program can be reduced to a single line of code, which will not work.

Replies:   mrherewriting
mrherewriting 🚫
Updated:

@Grey Wolf

Ahh, reductio ad absurdum. Points to you!

There is a Computer Science joke that follows this principle:

Every non-trivial program has at least one bug and at least one unnecessary instruction which can be removed.

Therefore, every program can be reduced to a single line of code, which will not work.

Sounds like a Harry Potter spell, but they did the same thing with food: Sugar free, salt free, gluten free...they even took the milk out of milk and replaced it with almonds and soy. Pretty soon it's going to be "flavor free paste" for dinner. Don't that make our mouths water.

solreader50 🚫
Updated:

@mrherewriting

"The house had odors." - Perfection.

This morning there was an unpleasant drainy smell in my half-bathroom. I poured two buckets of water down the shower drain to refill the U-bend. By this evening fresh linen from the reed-diffuser was the dominating scent. Before and after, the bathroom has odors. - Lack of perfection.

Replies:   mrherewriting
mrherewriting 🚫

@solreader50

This morning there was an unpleasant drainy smell in my half-bathroom. I poured two buckets of water down the shower drain to refill the U-bend. By this evening fresh linen from the reed-diffuser was the dominating scent. Before and after, the bathroom has odors. - Lack of perfection.

Yet, informative.

BlacKnight 🚫

@mrherewriting

No, no, it's just adjectives that are bad.

"The house had a feeling to it, the air with odors."

Sorry, I mean: It's adjectives that are.

StarFleet Carl 🚫

@mrherewriting

"The house had odors." - Perfection.

Let's do away with all the descriptors, then. That'll make the adult literature on here a lot simpler and easier.

Boy fuck girl.

Then end.

Replies:   irvmull  mrherewriting
irvmull 🚫
Updated:

@StarFleet Carl

Let's do away with all the descriptors, then. That'll make the adult literature on here a lot simpler and easier.

Boy fuck girl.

Then end.

The first word is insulting to a certain racial group.

The third will catch hell from the feminists.

All 3 together will attract the ire of the trans community.

You're left with only one that's usable, and it's not a complete sentence.

I'm pretty sure that if everyone used proper English and made an effort to conform to the ever-changing rules of political correctness now demanded by the demented, no story on SOL would be worth reading.

mrherewriting 🚫

@StarFleet Carl

Let's do away with all the descriptors, then. That'll make the adult literature on here a lot simpler and easier.

Boy fuck girl.

Then end.

Since new writers are always taking advice to the extremes (so they can put their own spin on it and call it theirs) one day that will be the new standard.

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