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in search of a beta reader, pre-editor. 1 story for now

Freyrs_Tales
Updated:

I have a number of stories on the boil but I only get a few hours here and there. writing is for relaxation and distraction from the stress' of life.

I would love to find someone who can read a story and for the most part ignore the odd typo etc. I want someone who can look at the flow of a story more than anything.

after this point I will look for a strict editor but want to get the bulk of the story sorted out before nitpicking over grammar and spelling.

I will post the codes for the first story to see if I can get any nibbles on my line. the current story is 90% fleshed out and I do not expect any takers to make a commitment till August (hoping to be well finished by then) and am not worried about a quick turn-around. at present it stands at over 45k words likely to round out at about 50k

I'm only after general feedback on plot, character etc till I can get to a well developed draft which will likely be a longer story with further fleshed out scenes and maybe some more plot development depending on feedback

the story codes are: Fath-Dau Mf Ff MF mf multi Nud Mastrb Inc Lolita Bi Exhib group oral anal toys 1st mostly/much sex. I will forward a synopsis if it will help curry favour with anyone interested

Replies:   Bondi Beach
Bondi Beach

@Freyrs_Tales

I'm only after general feedback on plot, character etc till I can get to a well developed draft which will likely be a longer story with further fleshed out scenes and maybe some more plot development depending on feedback

the story codes are: Fath-Dau Mf Ff MF mf multi Nud Mastrb Inc Lolita Bi Exhib group oral anal toys 1st mostly/much sex. I will forward a synopsis if it will help curry favour with anyone interested


Your story codes are very attractive to me. I'll be happy to give it a whirl when you're ready. August is fine; I'm stuck on other things until then, anyway. You'll be the judge of how useful my feedback is.

bb

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Bondi Beach

Bondi's got a great feel for stories. One issue with authors, in general though, is we find it difficult to turn off our inner editors (i.e. red-marking the text).

That's why it's best to invoke beta readers after the story has been thoroughly edited. They can highlight any typos which snuck past the editors, but otherwise they won't worry about punctuation/errors and con concentrate on story content.

A more difficult proposition for decent beta readers, is honesty. They've got to be willing to tell you what they HATE about a story, and it helps if they can differentiate between what they dislike and why it bothers them, which aren't the same thing. That's why family make such bad beta-editors, as they won't tell you when they dislike something.

My fix is to give a story to my mother, and watch her as she reads the entire book. Everyone she puts it down and walks into the other room to do something, I'll check what was happened before she put the book down. That'll clue me in to which subjects frustrate her. However, very often someone will say "I dislike so-and-so character because she's such a bitch", but they can't diagnose why they rub them the wrong way. It helps if you can query them, so you can boil down their objections by focusing on issues. Dealing with beta-readers is a tricky proposition. Basically, you need to recruit people who like delivering bad news!

Crumbly Writer

@Crumbly Writer

Bondi's got a great feel for stories.

Just an aside from another thread. The above sentence is a great example of using contractions incorrectly (for "Bondi has" rather than "Bondi possesses X".

Replies:   awnlee jawking
Bondi Beach

@Crumbly Writer

Bondi's got a great feel for stories.


Bondi has a great feel for a lot of things, especially boobs and other curves. He and his characters enjoy feeling them.

On that subject, here's Diana Gabaldon, author of Outlander, on post-coital feelings: "The shapes of her lingered, warm in his hands, curving his fingers in memory..."

I'm working out how much of that I have to change before I steal it.

bb

Replies:   Ross at Play  sejintenej
Ross at Play
Updated:

@Bondi Beach

For reasons I won't explain, I have time now for something where I could skip over all of my 'inner editor' tendencies.

I would not be like CW's mother either. I really don't understand other people's egos! I LOVE making suggestions with constructive intent, and am as free in providing my positive thoughts as my negative ones. I TRULY focus on what is best for the finished product, and I never understand when others react as if suggesting their idea/product is not perfect is some sort of personal assessment about them.

With the warning, I WILL BE TOTALLY HONEST, you are welcome to send me incomplete drafts now.

EDIT TO ADD

@Bondi Beach

That was meant for the writer, not you. I apologise if it appears I'm butting in. I offered myself as an option if he wants someone this month.

@Freyrs_Tales

I advise you to always take CW's opinions seriously. He stated, "Bondi's got a great feel for stories." I am relatively inexperienced, so if you can wait for Bondi to available, you would be in a safer pair of hands.

Replies:   Bondi Beach
awnlee jawking

@Crumbly Writer

On that theme, a present for you:

"What would Linda and the kids say about you're kidnapping me?...


AJ

Replies:   Bondi Beach
Bondi Beach

@awnlee jawking

On that theme, a present for you:
"What would Linda and the kids say about you're kidnapping me?...

AJ


Sounds like a great opening line. Look forward to the story.

bb

Bondi Beach

@Ross at Play

so if you can wait for Bondi to available, you would be in a safer pair of hands.


An unproven assertion, no question.

bb

REP

@Crumbly Writer

That's why it's best to invoke beta readers after the story has been thoroughly edited.


That is one way to do it, and the reasons are valid. The flip side of doing that way is, if the Beta Reader's input requires major rewrites, the author and editor have to redo a lot of work.

Freyrs_Tales

thanks for all the quick replies, I'll keep an eye on this thread as time and the story go by.
I also need to get more familiar with this style of forum.
thanks again

Replies:   Ross at Play
Ross at Play

@Freyrs_Tales

I must withdraw my offer as being available now. Some new information emerged while negotiating another 'commission', and the result was I'm fully loaded for the foreseeable future.
One note. You can register on the site as an author before posting anything. That allows us to find an email address to respond to enquiries like yours.
I'll repeat some wise words from CW, "Write. Write. Write!"

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Ross at Play

I'll repeat some wise words from CW, "Write. Write. Write!"


Which is later replaced with Edit, write, edit, write, edit post

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Freyrs_Tales

yes I am registered as an Author, but thanks for the reminder that things work that way too.
I'll post back here when I've had the time to write some more on this particular piece.

Replies:   Ross at Play
Ross at Play

@Freyrs_Tales

I am registered as an Author

but not as Freyrs Tales, so we cannot find you now.

Freyrs_Tales

According to my profile my pen name is "Freyrs Tales" so not sure what's happening there. i have a number of universes and series setup to mark where I want to go but no posts so I can't even blog yet.
I'll just post my email here for a few days so people can get me directly too. "freyrs.tales@gmail.com"

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@Freyrs_Tales


but no posts


When you create an author account it will set you up to use the system, but nothing will be visible to others until after you post your first chapter of your first story. So, no posts yet is why they don't see you.

edit to add; The same applies to a universe and a series, it's not visible to people until there's a story in it.

sejintenej

@Bondi Beach

On that subject, here's Diana Gabaldon, author of Outlander, on post-coital feelings: "The shapes of her lingered, warm in his hands, curving his fingers in memory..."

I'm working out how much of that I have to change before I steal it.

Apart from your avoiding a straight copy I find that a beautiful sensitive bit of writing

As for CW who wrote:

Bondi's got a great feel for stories.

Just an aside from another thread. The above sentence is a great example of using contractions incorrectly (for "Bondi has" rather than "Bondi possesses X".

To me the apostrophe merely indicates that a letter or letters have been omitted. CW seems to limit the exclusion to "his" whereas here it could be clearly understood as "has".
Perhaps in other countries there are different understandings

Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@sejintenej


To me the apostrophe merely indicates that a letter or letters have been omitted.


That's true, and how it really is. The actual word replaced is easily worked out from context. The 's is usually a replacement for any of - is, was, has.

edit to add: 'd can be would, could, had, and others.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Bondi Beach

@sejintenej


@Bondi Beach
On that subject, here's Diana Gabaldon, author of Outlander, on post-coital feelings: "The shapes of her lingered, warm in his hands, curving his fingers in memory..."

I'm working out how much of that I have to change before I steal it.

Apart from your avoiding a straight copy I find that a beautiful sensitive bit of writing


I agree entirely. My comment was partly a joke, since straight copying is frowned on, but partly serious in my effort to find a way to convey something of what the phrase conveys---shape, warm, curving fingers, etc.

My wife is now a confirmed fan of Outlander, the time-travel bodice ripper with hairy guys in skirts, and especially of Gabaldon's sex scenes as written and as portrayed on the screen. I can see why.

bb

Replies:   sejintenej
sejintenej
Updated:

@Bondi Beach


. My comment was partly a joke, since straight copying is frowned on, but partly serious in my effort to find a way to convey something of what the phrase conveys---shape, warm, curving fingers, etc.


Surely description is the easiest form of writing. You have this

young, innocent warm body, slightly moist from the effects of what has gone before, flushed with pleasure, the heart beating fast and arteries visibly pulsating, the hard nipple beneath your finger just begging for your lips to bring it yet again to its needed conclusion, the navel - that entry into the body which your tongue explores, making her writhe ......

Hell, that came straight off in about 2 minutes (one typo) and it was simply imagination. Your real problem is to fit such description into the rest of the story but first just see the scene in your mind's eye......

edit: I don't care if there is a missing comma, if there are four instead of three dots. I simply want the reader to see what I see

Replies:   Bondi Beach
Bondi Beach

@sejintenej

young, innocent warm body, slightly moist from the effects of what has gone before, flushed with pleasure, the heart beating fast and arteries visibly pulsating, the hard nipple beneath your finger just begging for your lips to bring it yet again to its needed conclusion, the navel - that entry into the body which your tongue explores, making her writhe ......


I'd like to read the story that belongs to.

That said, it is a little florid, no matter how many or how few commas and dots it has. The strength of Gabaldon's prose, what makes it beautiful and sensitive, in your words, is its restraint.

Florid is good, sometimes, and usually in small doses. Not knocking it.

bb

Replies:   sejintenej
sejintenej

@Bondi Beach

I'd like to read the story that belongs to.

That said, it is a little florid, no matter how many or how few commas and dots it has. The strength of Gabaldon's prose, what makes it beautiful and sensitive, in your words, is its restraint.

Florid is good, sometimes, and usually in small doses. Not knocking it.


Firstly, prior to your quote I had never heard of Gabaldon. It struck me that her (?) forte might be description.

That piece is not part of anything - exactly as stated I wrote it in a few minutes just to illustrate that description can be easy to do (even if I did go OTT). It is something I find lacking in most stories - an author might write that a girl is gorgeous but he/she doesn't go further. If he is going to bed her he could at least look at her neck, her nose, even her nipples before he gets down to the wham, bang etc.

On the other hand creating fiction is infinitely more challenging, from roughing out the chapters to creating novel ideas and concepts to be included and then the constant hammering on the finger joints.

It is a long time since I wrote anything serious - I think the last one was a "picture" of a man/woman who is feared from the yurt of the Siberian shaman to the ethereal palaces of Alpha Centauri, from the caves of proto humanoids to the modern city centre office. I even got to include references to world leaders, Jesus Christ, Buddha etc. - but goodness knows where my copy is now - a newspaper owns the copyright

Replies:   Bondi Beach
Bondi Beach

@sejintenej

That piece is not part of anything


I know. My comment was an oblique way of saying if it were to become a story I'd like to read it.

It is a long time since I wrote anything serious - I think the last one was a "picture" of a man/woman who is feared from the yurt of the Siberian shaman to the ethereal palaces of Alpha Centauri, from the caves of proto humanoids to the modern city centre office. I even got to include references to world leaders, Jesus Christ, Buddha etc. - but goodness knows where my copy is now - a newspaper owns the copyright


Donald Trump?

bb

Replies:   sejintenej
sejintenej

@Bondi Beach

the last one was a "picture" of a man/woman who is feared from the yurt of the Siberian shaman to the ethereal palaces of Alpha Centauri, ....

Donald Trump?

LOL and the rest! I suppose when he gets his paws on the bomb then ....

It was a competition to name the greatest person who ever lived. I interpreted "greatest" as meaning "most influential"
We used the bubbly to celebrate my grand daughter's christening. Oh, and by the way, after many blank lines at the end I wrote that "Murphy is proposed by [name]"

awnlee jawking

@Bondi Beach

In that case read 'Singularity' by CW - I was pointing out the dodgy contraction.

AJ

Joe_Bondi_Beach

@awnlee jawking

In that case read 'Singularity' by CW - I was pointing out the dodgy contraction.


Not sure which case that is—to read about Donald Trump, or about slight moist warm (ex-) maidens?

bb

Replies:   sejintenej
sejintenej

@Joe_Bondi_Beach

Not sure which case that is—to read about Donald Trump, or about slight moist warm (ex-) maidens?


The imagination boggleth;
DT's innocent warm body, slightly moist from the effects of what has gone before, flushed with pleasure, ......... the hard nipple beneath your finger just begging ........yet again ................

Of course DT's has a rather nasty medical significance but is there a connection between DT and DTs?

Crumbly Writer

@Bondi Beach

On that theme, a present for you:
"What would Linda and the kids say about you're kidnapping me?...

Sounds like a great opening line. Look forward to the story.

Sorry, but the quote occurs mid-book (chapter 10 of an 18 chapter story), and only after the main character discovers details about the person he's speaking too (picking the person's private details out of thin air).

@REP

That is one way to do it, and the reasons are valid. The flip side of doing that way is, if the Beta Reader's input requires major rewrites, the author and editor have to redo a lot of work.

That's why many content editors suggest sending them your basic plot outline/story premise before you flesh out the story, so they can catch any potential plot holes. I've never known any author who followed this advice, but it's one approach. However, in my case, often various plots never work out, and committing to a story before it's even partially written seems like a fool's mission.

Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

Which is later replaced with Edit, write, edit, write, edit post

Write, edit, rewrite, revise, edit, farm out to other editors, revise, review, edit a few stray elements, repeat until you're sick of the story and then publish/post. 'D

Replies:   Dominions Son
Crumbly Writer

@Ernest Bywater

'd can be ... others.

He'd might refer to others? That's a new one. :-)

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

In that case read 'Singularity' by CW - I was pointing out the dodgy contraction.

Sorry, I didn't catch that when I read your post. That was a simple typo. The story's been corrected, but because I have to post it thrice, I likely won't update the story on SOL until later. Thanks for catching it.

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

Write, edit, rewrite, revise, edit, farm out to other editors, revise, review, edit a few stray elements, repeat until you're sick of the story and then publish/post. 'D


Shouldn't eat and sleep and sex be in there somewhere?

Replies:   Capt Zapp
Capt Zapp

@Dominions Son

Shouldn't eat and sleep and sex be in there somewhere?


You're a writer, you don't have time for those distractions. ;)

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Capt Zapp

You're a writer, you don't have time for those distractions.

Nor for a life; writing, like most artistic fields, is a full-time position. You either concentrate on creating, or you diddle, never getting much accomplished.

Replies:   Capt Zapp
Capt Zapp

@Crumbly Writer

You either concentrate on creating, or you diddle...


Exactly, we create so others can diddle. :D

Replies:   Bondi Beach
Bondi Beach

@Capt Zapp

Exactly, we create so others can diddle. :D


Second that.

bb

richardshagrin

Perhaps I don't understand the difference between beta readers and to coin a phrase, maybe, alpha readers. Rewriting is what happens after alpha readers comment on what you ought to do with the story. Typically there aren't many alphas, maybe just the author. Beta readers are more like proofreaders looking for spelling, homonym and punctuation issues. Maybe character names change or there are some ages that don't add up, like a 19 year old high school senior that goes to college and has an 18th birthday as a freshman.

Or maybe I don't understand what a Beta reader does.

Dominions Son

@richardshagrin

Beta readers are more like proofreaders looking for spelling, homonym and punctuation issues.


Nope.

Or maybe I don't understand what a Beta reader does.


My under standing is that the beta readers are not there to correct technical flaws but to give the author an reader centric assessment of the story as a whole pre-publication, did the reader enjoy the story, what worked, what didn't.

Some types of editors do that, but they have a more technical/publishing industry based viewpoint that may or may not align with what readers will like. They also cost money where beta readers are volunteers.

Crumbly Writer
Updated:

@richardshagrin


Perhaps I don't understand the difference between beta readers and to coin a phrase, maybe, alpha readers.


Alpha readers are a special class of editor. They don't need to understand zilch about English usage or grammar, but they've GOT to be brutally honest. Their main aim, is to flag which sections of the story give them pause. Often, you'll plan on a particular story element to convey one thing, but a select/core group interpret it an entirely different way, and not knowing this leaves you unprepared when they start rating your story poorly.

The beta-readers will say, "I dislike the lead character", but will rarely know precisely why. Thus it's up to the author to deconstruct reader pre-conceptions, and then to recreate the essential passages/character development sections, to shore up the more easily misconstrued portions of the story.

Hope that clarifies their role, though it's likely to just make the entire discussion more difficult to comprehend. :-(

The key, though, is that beta readers are readers, expressing their opinions of the story, as opposed to technical experts pointing out technical flaws. Their objective is to flag potential issues in the story which need to be addressed before publication/posting. Often authors rely on relatives for this role, but that's a notorious bad selection simply because they can't admit they hate your story, so they'll instead remain silent if something really bothers them.

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