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Forum: Bug Report and Feature Requests

Visa debit/credit card payment option

bsgdme

Please make this option available

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@bsgdme

Working on a solution

Replies:   Dominion's Son
Dominion's Son

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

I pay with a visa check card when I renew my membership. I've never had an issue.

I do know that most US bank issued Visa/MC check cards can't be used outside of North America.

I don't know where bsgdme is but he may be having a similar issue if he is outside of North America.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@Dominion's Son

In many countries you have to contact your bank to authorise the use of your debit / credit card for use overseas before it will work outside of your home country. Also, for some banks you have to contact them and approve its use on the Internet, while some only allow use on the Internet within the country until special approval is asked for overseas Internet usage.

The above may be the problem, or it may be the problem reported on the old forum where some US based banking organisations were not approving transaction with websites dealing with porn. If the later, Lazeez was working on fixing that.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Ernest Bywater

or it may be the problem reported on the old forum where some US based banking organisations were not approving transaction with websites dealing with porn.


Visa and Master Card don't have any issue with porn sites. In this case it's mostly the international transaction thing with debit cards.

bsgdme

There is only credit card option and no debit card option

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Ernest Bywater

In many countries you have to contact your bank to authorise the use of your debit / credit card for use overseas before it will work outside of your home country.


I have complained to my bank a couple of times about this and have been told that the North America restriction is a regulatory issue with US bank issued debit cards.

Dominions Son

@bsgdme

There is only credit card option and no debit card option


I have a VISA check card. While it debits my bank account either way, it can be used anywhere that accepts Visa credit cards and can be run through both the credit card and ATM networks.

If I make a purchase as an ATM card I use my pin. If I make a purchase as a credit card I sign like I would for a normal credit card.

However, I very rarely make purchases as an ATM card. The reason is I have a daily withdrawal limit which would apply to purchases made through the ATM network, but no limit (other than having enough money in my bank account) on purchases made through the credit card network.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@Dominions Son

I have a VISA check card. While it debits my bank account either way, it can be used anywhere that accepts Visa credit cards and can be run through both the credit card and ATM networks.

That's how debit cards are supposed to function. They can be used as either debit or instantly payed off credit cards. When using them on a foreign site, just use it as a credit card. If it has a Visa/MasterCard/Amer Ex. on it, it'll process just fine.

Dominions Son
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


When using them on a foreign site, just use it as a credit card. If it has a Visa/MasterCard/Amer Ex. on it, it'll process just fine.


No, it won't. I have tried that before, repeatedly, if the transaction processor used by the site is outside of North America (US, Canada, Mexico), the transaction will be automatically rejected by my bank (and I get a fraud alert from the bank).

I have complained to my bank, Chase Manhattan not some small local bank, and I was told that because of regulatory issues, debit cards issued from US banks can not be used outside of North America.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@Dominions Son


I have complained to my bank, Chase Manhattan not some small local bank, and I was told that because of regulatory issues, debit cards issued from US banks can not be used outside of North America.


I'd be asking them for the exact regulation and section, and then change banks when they can't provide it. I know hundreds of people with US bank issued credit cards that work outside the USA - heck Mexican and Canadian tourism depends on US credit cards working.

edit to add - the reason they issue the debit cards as a visa credit / debit card is to allow the usage outside the normal single bank ATM system.

Dominions Son

@Ernest Bywater

US bank issued credit cards that work outside the USA - heck Mexican and Canadian tourism depends on US credit cards working.


No, my actual credit card will work just fine world wide.

It's only my Visa Check Card which is an issue and it's not limited to the US, it's limited to North America, it will work just fine in Mexico and Canada. In fact, I use it to pay my membership here.

Dominions Son
Updated:

@Ernest Bywater


edit to add - the reason they issue the debit cards as a visa credit / debit card is to allow the usage outside the normal single bank ATM system.


The US has had shared ATM networks since the 1970s. In fact you can place where people are from by what they call an ATM. Where I am at (Wisconsin) the first (an monopoly for quite a while) was TYME (Take Your Money Everywhere), so many if not most Wisconsinites will refer to an ATM as a TYME machine.

https://www.kansascityfed.org/publicat/psr/bksjournarticles/atmpaper.pdf

Edited to add: At least in the US, nearly all of the shared ATM networks were interconnected before Visa/MC introduced the check card. At least here, the main marketing driver was POS use. While the ATMs were all interconnected any you could use any debit card at any ATM, not a lot of stores were accepting ATM cards at their POS terminals.

POS=Point of Sale

zebra69347

I work in a shop where we see cards from many countries, including USA, Canada, Australia and New Zealand also many European countries.
Most Visa and Master Card transactions go through without any problem. However, some are declined through the system, system never tells us why it fails. These are for in-store purchases not Internet transactions.

Replies:   sejintenej
ustourist

There doesn't seem to be any logic in acceptance.
My US visa cards (US banks, US address) are occasionally refused in the UK, but my UK visa (UK bank, UK address) has never had a problem.
They are both personal names, not business ones and I always use credit, not debit option.
Most people seem to get round the problem with a phone call though.

sejintenej

@Crumbly Writer

I have a VISA check card. While it debits my bank account either way, it can be used anywhere that accepts Visa credit cards and can be run through both the credit card and ATM networks.

That's how debit cards are supposed to function. They can be used as either debit or instantly payed off credit cards. When using them on a foreign site, just use it as a credit card. If it has a Visa/MasterCard/Amer Ex. on it, it'll process just fine

Oh no it won't. I carry only debit cards usable anywhere in the world without preadvice or control(OK I have a substantial overdraft limit I don't use). I arranged and paid for car hire in advance by debit card but when I went to collect the car in France they refused to let me have it because they wanted a security deposit which compulsorily had to be by credit card.
That was a company which seems to be tied in with Hertz but I am told that Avis and other companies now do the same. I think it is because Visa is American.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
sejintenej

@zebra69347

Most Visa and Master Card transactions go through without any problem. However, some are declined through the system, system never tells us why it fails

Some countries have exchange controls which limit such payments. For example Visa cards issued in Brasil are not valid outside Brasil (I suspect that a few are issued valid outside but I have never seen one).
I had a debit refused two years ago because the bank felt that it was very abnormal. (It was to a property company in a city 500 miles from where I live - they were also a "property for sale" advertising agency)

Crumbly Writer

@sejintenej

I arranged and paid for car hire in advance by debit card but when I went to collect the car in France they refused to let me have it because they wanted a security deposit which compulsorily had to be by credit card.
That was a company which seems to be tied in with Hertz but I am told that Avis and other companies now do the same. I think it is because Visa is American.

sejintenej, don't forget, there's a big difference between when a bank refuses a transaction and when a business refuses to process it. I can't count the number of times a gas station simply refuses to accept my card, preferring I hand over cash instead.

Ernest Bywater

@Crumbly Writer

I can't count the number of times a gas station simply refuses to accept my card, preferring I hand over cash instead.


best to check if they have the card issuer's sign in their window before you fill up. I had an issue like that one time and the guy had the card's sign in his window saying they were accepted. But he wanted cash until I said it was either the card or send me a bill as I had no cash on me - he took the card.

Replies:   bondsman
bondsman

@Ernest Bywater

This discussion has become rather broad (imagine that) but here is one (or two depending on how you look at them) reason credit cards (purely credit cards not the dual credit/debit type) are rejected - you are out of your "home area" and the charge exceeds a certain amount. I've had that happen on a couple of occasions with two different cards. It's purely a security practice of the CC company. In both cases a second card wasn't rejected.

In one instance the company called me, but I had used a different card and was elsewhere by the time they called.

I doubt one would be able to get the exact criteria used by the companies. The solution to this piece of the puzzle is to inform the company ahead of time that you'll be traveling. They may ask for an area and how long.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@bondsman

Bondsman, the reasons I've had gas stations reject my use of credit cards are:
1) They demand a zip code, then reject my valid zip code.
2) I mistype pin number, and the pump then 'blocks' me from using the same card to purchase gas for some indefinite period (I'm guessing between 5 to 15 minutes)
3) The management prefers cash and simply announces "Your card was rejected" when in fact it never was.

In each of these cases, I simply close my wallet, put the pump back, and drive away. If a station requires a zip code, I'll never return! (I've had it malfunction more often than it works.)

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

They demand a zip code, then reject my valid zip code.


Do you perhaps live in a different zip code than mailing address you CC bill is sent to?

Switch Blayde

@Crumbly Writer

If a station requires a zip code, I'll never return!


The zip code isn't for the gas station. It's the card company verifying you.

Dominions Son

@Switch Blayde

The zip code isn't for the gas station. It's the card company verifying you.


That's why the gas station want's you zip code, to better validate you with you bank. (It's the issuing bank, not the CC company (Visa, Master Card, Discovery) that approves/rejects the transaction. However, not all stations in my area ask for your zip code, so it can't be that the banks are demanding that information.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@Dominions Son

It's the issuing bank, not the CC company (Visa, Master Card, Discovery) that approves/rejects the transaction.


Sorry, you're right about that.

sejintenej

@Crumbly Writer

I arranged and paid for car hire in advance by debit card but when I went to collect the car in France they refused to let me have it because they wanted a security deposit which compulsorily had to be by credit card.

That was a company which seems to be tied in with Hertz but I am told that Avis and other companies now do the same. I think it is because Visa is American.

sejintenej, don't forget, there's a big difference between when a bank refuses a transaction and when a business refuses to process it. I can't count the number of times a gas station simply refuses to accept my card, preferring I hand over cash instead.

Don't forget that the company had already accepted my debit card for the vehicle hire. On top of that I was in another country 1000 miles from home. Worse, they would take a debit card issued in that country (but not covered by Visa or MasterCard) but not one issued elsewhere.

This was an extra refundable deposit in case I had an accident; under local regulations the banks were actually prohibited from allowing me to withdraw the necessary amount from an ATM in total in one week.

It turned out that they did have another option; I could buy "insurance" using the debit card BUT the premium (non-refundable) was pretty close to the amount of the hire fee.

Crumbly Writer

@Switch Blayde

The zip code isn't for the gas station. It's the card company verifying you.

Understood. However, the company handling the verification has the incorrect information (they're storing a zip code inconsistent with my CC residence), so I couldn't use the card even if I wanted to, and I'm not about to fight to use a broken system. If they want my business, they'll find a working verification business. Otherwise, I'm happy going somewhere less antagonistic.

Luckily, my debit cards don't require the overly onerous zip code challenge.

By the way, what does this have to do with writing and stories?

richardshagrin

There are fees the merchant has to pay on credit card transactions. I think the fees are lower on debit cards, since there is relatively little risk of non-payment if the money is taken from your bank account. I see signs is smaller stores where the fees are highest, perhaps 5%, refusing credit card transactions less than a certain amount, often $10 where the 50 cent fee can't be covered by the profit on the smaller transaction.

Since credit card issuing banks and other financial institutions can't print money, the promotional rewards some credit card companies pay come from the interest charges you pay and from the fees merchants pay. I suppose there might be some income from interest on the float between when your card gets debited and when the merchant gets reimbursed. Even the largest merchants, like COSTCO, who didn't used to take credit cards because they didn't want to pay any fee have accepted fees probably under 1%. COSTCO switched from American Express a couple of years ago. American express is an unusual credit card since the balances are paid off monthly. I am not sure if they charge the merchant a fee.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

Understood. However, the company handling the verification has the incorrect information (they're storing a zip code inconsistent with my CC residence)


The company handling the verification is the bank that issued your CC. The zip code they want is the zip code for your billing address. If that's different than your residential address and you are trying to input you residential zip code, that is the problem. Next time you get a the bill for your CC look at the zip code on the mailing address. see if it's different than what you think it is.

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

By the way, what does this have to do with writing and stories?


Nothing. This is the Bug Report/Feature Requests forum. Whoever started this thread was asking if SOL could add credit card processing to the payment options for paid memberships. (Which we had to explain that it already does.

Switch Blayde
Updated:

@richardshagrin


Even the largest merchants, like COSTCO, who didn't used to take credit cards because they didn't want to pay any fee have accepted fees probably under 1%. COSTCO switched from American Express a couple of years ago. American express is an unusual credit card since the balances are paid off monthly. I am not sure if they charge the merchant a fee.


I used to work for American Express.

The credit card is a negative float. Amex pays the merchant and then gets paid by the cardmember at a later date. The travelers cheques is a positive float. You give Amex money when you buy the cheques and Amex doesn't have to pay anything until you use them. And you'd be surprised how many never get used (lost, forgotten, held for a rainy day, etc.).

Visa makes their money on the interest they charge the cardholder on outstanding balances. And those interest charges are huge. If every Visa cardmember paid their balance each month, Visa would go out of business.

Amex used to require full payment each month. They didn't make money on interest charges. That's why they charge the merchant more. When I worked there, they would charge the merchant around 6% while Visa charged around 3%. That's why merchants didn't want to take Amex.

Now Amex has cards like the banks where they make their money on interest charges.

Costco still takes Amex. At one time, the only card they took was Amex. My guess is they got a good deal (much less than 6%) in doing so.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Switch Blayde

Visa makes their money on the interest they charge the cardholder on outstanding balances. And those interest charges are huge. If every Visa cardmember paid their balance each month, Visa would go out of business.


No, unlike American Express, Visa and the other CC companies do not directly issue credit cards. The cards are issued by a bank or other financial institution. It is that issuing bank that you owe the money to, not Visa and it is the issuing bank that makes the payments to the merchants and collects the interest payments you make.

Visa makes all of it's money on transaction fees payed by the merchants and possibly the banks as well.

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