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Fairy Tale

awnlee jawking

I would have chosen this for the genre of my latest story if it had been available as an option. I don't think 'Fantasy' is quite right so I opted for 'Fiction'.

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@awnlee jawking

Looking at the story description, Fantasy is not just "not quite right", it's way wrong.

The Fantasy tag is meant for Sword & Sorcery (Conan) and High Fantasy (D&D, Lord of the Rings).

Nothing in the story description or other tags says Fairy Tale to me.

To me, Fairy Tale as a genre implies both a moral to the story and a supernatural element.

Replies:   samuelmichaels
Crumbly Writer

I agree. This forms a separate complete genre, though one which isn't as popular (especially for adult readers) as others. However, adult animal stories easily rate as fantasy, despite not having elves, drawves and dragons. The Lord of the Rings series seems to have dominated all conceptions of Fantasy, which is simply defined as "stories set in a fictionalized universe with it's own set of physical laws". Talking pets is one such fantasy world, as is the world of magic. So how, awnlee, does your work vary from that definition?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

The Lord of the Rings series seems to have dominated all conceptions of Fantasy, which is simply defined as "stories set in a fictionalized universe with it's own set of physical laws". Talking pets is one such fantasy world, as is the world of magic.


Fantasy in the generic sense, yes. However it breaks down into several sub-genres and the SOL tag is more specific

From the code FAQ: http://storiesonline.net/docs/code_faq.php

High Fantasy High Fantasy, sword and sorcery and such

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Dominions Son

So high fantasy doesn't involve drugs?

Dominions Son

@richardshagrin

Drugs are neither required no prohibited in the genre.

Crumbly Writer

@richardshagrin

So high fantasy doesn't involve drugs?

I don't know, the only times that dogs talk to me is when I'm ... wait, what was I saying?

samuelmichaels

@Dominions Son

The Fantasy tag is meant for Sword & Sorcery (Conan) and High Fantasy (D&D, Lord of the Rings).

Gee, I thought Fantasy was when the cheerleaders throw themselves at me, before embarking happily to recruit more girls for my harem.

Dominions Son

@samuelmichaels

Gee, I thought Fantasy was when the cheerleaders throw themselves at me, before embarking happily to recruit more girls for my harem.


And That could be Fantasy. The problem is that the SOL tag isn't just Fantasy, it's High Fantasy which has a different and more specific meaning.

Ernest Bywater

@samuelmichaels

Gee, I thought Fantasy was


expecting politicians to give a damn about the country or the people, instead of concentrating on lining their own pockets and grabbing more power for themselves.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Ernest Bywater

expecting politicians to give a damn about the country or the people, instead of concentrating on lining their own pockets and grabbing more power for themselves.


That's not fantasy, that's delusional. :)

Crumbly Writer

OK, we're agreed? Lazeez needs to add a "High-Fantasy" tag while changing the description on the "Fantasy" tag.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@Crumbly Writer

OK, we're agreed? Lazeez needs to add a "High-Fantasy" tag while changing the description on the "Fantasy" tag.


The tag is already 'High Fantasy' and there is no just 'Fantasy' tag. It used to be 'Fantasy' only, but since way too many authors used the 'Fantasy' tag instead of 'Fiction' tag for stories that had nothing to do with 'high fantasy', I had to eliminate it to avoid confusion.

I guess I should simply change the 'High Fantasy' tag's description to add 'Fairy tales' instead of keep that under 'and such' because fairy tales are still high fantasy.

Crumbly Writer

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

I don't agree that "Fantasy" and "Fiction" are synonymous, but "Fantasy" does include a lot of works, so it might seem to be widespread misuse of the code.

"Fantasy" basically includes any work where the laws of physics are suspended or where there are entirely new laws (like magic). That's a pretty broad category of stories (like 16-year-old kids attracting hundreds of women willing to share him between them!)

awnlee jawking

Perhaps, when the complete story has been uploaded, someone would be kind enough to 'take one for the team', read it to the end, then suggest to which genre it should have been allocated.

It's received a few '1's so apparently some readers were very disappointed by it, and being in the wrong genre might be a contributory factor.

AJ

awnlee jawking

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

There seems to be scope for including several story-type tags for stories which cross genre boundaries, but the drop-down list only allows one principal genre to be selected.

I've already appealed for others to tell me which genre they would have chosen after my complete story has been uploaded. I still consider it a 'Fairy Tale', although by no stretch of the imagination could it be considered 'High Fantasy'.

AJ

Dominions Son

@awnlee jawking

I've already appealed for others to tell me which genre they would have chosen after my complete story has been uploaded.


It's not my typical read here, but I can do that.

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)
Updated:

@awnlee jawking


I still consider it a 'Fairy Tale', although by no stretch of the imagination could it be considered 'High Fantasy'.


The definition of fairy tale is:

a : a story involving fantastic forces and beings (as fairies, wizards, and goblins) in which improbable events lead to a happy ending

That's the definition that I would use if I were to add a 'Fairy Tale' tag. Does that fit your story?

If it does, I'll add the tag in the next few minutes and you can add it to your story.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
Dominions Son

@awnlee jawking

I've already appealed for others to tell me which genre they would have chosen after my complete story has been uploaded.


I've read whats there so far.

I don't see a moral coming out, though that could change when the story is complete, so at this point I still wouldn't call it a fairy tale.

I read quite a few traditionally published romance stories that are in modern settings with some fantasy/fairy tale elements; vampires, werecreatures, magic.

Amazon and most larger bookstores (when they are separated out from regular romances) classify them as "paranormal romance".

Given this, I would suggest using the "Paranormal" tag.

awnlee jawking

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

a : a story involving fantastic forces and beings (as fairies, wizards, and goblins) in which improbable events lead to a happy ending


Yes, although the supernatural aspects are downplayed and the protagonist isn't convinced they're real.

@DominionsSon also requires there to be a moral to the story and there isn't one (unless I put one in by accident).

In the circumstances, I'd rather wait until the full story has been published before any action is taken.

AJ

Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

@awnlee jawking

Yes, although the supernatural aspects are downplayed and the protagonist isn't convinced they're real.


Alright, I added the tag. You can now use the story management page to add the tag to your story. And if anybody else reading this and the fairy tale applies, go ahead and add it to your story.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
Dominions Son

@awnlee jawking

@DominionsSon also requires there to be a moral to the story and there isn't one (unless I put one in by accident).


Yes, but I tend to take a more classic view of what a fairy tale is, looking at the source stories of which the modern children's story "fairy tales" are heavily sanitized versions.

The old stories were morality tales for adults, not children, from a time when most adults believed such things were real, and happy endings were rare.

If Lazeez wants to put the tag in with the more modern view as the definition, that's his perogative, and I can live with that.

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

Yes, although the supernatural aspects are downplayed and the protagonist isn't convinced they're real.

@DominionsSon also requires there to be a moral to the story and there isn't one (unless I put one in by accident).

Just because a protagonist doesn't see something the readers can doesn't mean it's not a story element. When I first post "Catalyst" to ASSTR (where you can set your own story codes) I labeled it as (Inc?), since it was never clear whether the Cate and Alex would ever get together or not, but I still wanted it listed as an incest story since that was a central theme of the story.

I'd also reject the 'happy ending' requirement, since the original Grimm's fairy tales were anything but happy endings, with someone always dying or paying a significant price for screwing up. However, like most sci-fi, most contain an overall theme which can be summed as as a 'moral' (don't do this, this is bad or try this instead).

I'm not sure it's a strict requirement, but I'd suggest you look the story over again and consider the message you want to convey (even if it's one of helplessness). After all, the general theme of my "Great Death" series, where everyone dies, was persevering in the face of hopeless odds. The fact the man who expressed that view survived, when all those willing to fight for survival perished, counts as a happy ending.

awnlee jawking

On a frivolous note, 'The Goblin Train' by Meatbot is a story (and not a bad one, either) in which fairies play a significant role. Does it qualify as a Fairy Tale?

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son
Updated:

@awnlee jawking


Does it qualify as a Fairy Tale?


Depends on how the fairies and goblins are depicted, particularly in relation to people.

Looking at the first chapter, it's a close call between fairy tale and paranormal.

The modern setting on the human side, makes the high fantasy it's tagged with inappropriate in my opinion.

awnlee jawking

@Lazeez Jiddan (Webmaster)

The conclusion to the story has just been posted and I've added the 'Fairy Tale' tag. In the Story End Notes, I've invited readers to let me know whether they consider it appropriate.

AJ

Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

I'm working on a new story where someone sees fairies and demons harassing people and attacks them. Would that qualify as a "Fairy Tale" or a "Demonic Story"? ;-)

Like most of my stories, I'll label it "Sci-Fi".

Dominions Son

@Crumbly Writer

I'm working on a new story where someone sees fairies and demons harassing people and attacks them. Would that qualify as a "Fairy Tale" or a "Demonic Story"? ;-)

Like most of my stories, I'll label it "Sci-Fi".


Since you are dealing with supernatural creatures not technology, Sci-Fi isn't appropriate. I'd call it Paranormal (there's a tag for that).

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@Dominions Son

Since you are dealing with supernatural creatures not technology, Sci-Fi isn't appropriate. I'd call it Paranormal (there's a tag for that).


Well, unless said creatures are using technology to do what they're doing.

awnlee jawking

@Crumbly Writer

The site definition would seem to exclude 'Fairy Tale' as a candidate. I think I'm with @DominionsSon, unless there's a significant amount of science involved in the perception of and retribution towards the fairies and demons.

AJ

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@awnlee jawking

The site definition would seem to exclude 'Fairy Tale' as a candidate. I think I'm with @DominionsSon, unless there's a significant amount of science involved in the perception of and retribution towards the fairies and demons.

Not_a_ID and Awnlee, I mentioned it mainly for humor, as it's an unusual story. Trying not to give the plot away, fairies, drawves, dragons and demons all appear, but like most of my stories, the characters have a scientific mystery to unravel, so it fits under sci-fi. For this story, these creatures from fable appear, because only select people have ever witnessed them, but they've been visiting for thousands of years. Thus the question becomes, what the hell are these creatures, where do they come from and what do they represent. The story doesn't follow the trajectory of a traditional fairy tale, while all those questions mark the story as a fictional scientific mystery, or sci-fi-my for short. (New code, anyone?)

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Crumbly Writer

Sounds like a reasonable argument to me.

AJ

awnlee jawking

@awnlee jawking

In a really massive vote, there was a majority of one in favour of my labelling the story as a fairytale. In the interests of full disclosure, I was one of the 'for' votes. However two of the against votes, on the basis that leprechauns really exist, might not have been entirely serious. 99.7% of readers declined to vote.

AJ

Zalpha

I am new to the site, I have been looking at that tag and there are few stories posted under it. I was trying to find stories with Elves, Orcs and Goblins.

ustourist

@Zalpha

I am not absolutely certain, but I think you will find some of those elements in the 'Weavers World' series by Stultus.

Argon

@Zalpha

Look up The Solitary Arrow by Mack the Knife and other stories by the same author. They're old as dirt by now, and Mack stopped contributing almost 10 years ago, but you'll find quite some reading.
One of my all-time favourite writers on SOL.

Vlad_Inhaler

Mack posted a short story three years ago, then started a multi-part story a year later. Incomplete and Inactive.

Crumbly Writer

@Zalpha

I am new to the site, I have been looking at that tag and there are few stories posted under it. I was trying to find stories with Elves, Orcs and Goblins.

The tag "Fairy Tale" has nothing whatsoever to do with these story elements. You're confusing fairy tales with Dungeons and Dragons, or even "Lord of the Rings". You get better results if you search for the appropriate tags.

Replies:   Capt Zapp
Capt Zapp

@Zalpha

I am new to the site, I have been looking at that tag and there are few stories posted under it. I was trying to find stories with Elves, Orcs and Goblins.


Try these tags -

High Fantasy High Fantasy, sword and sorcery and such

Fairy Tale A story involving fantastic forces and beings (as fairies, wizards, and goblins) in which improbable events lead to a happy ending

Capt Zapp
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


The tag "Fairy Tale" has nothing whatsoever to do with these story elements.


It does according to the tag descriptions page:

Fairy Tale - A story involving fantastic forces and beings (as fairies, wizards, and goblins) in which improbable events lead to a happy ending.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Capt Zapp

Fairy Tale - A story involving fantastic forces and beings (as fairies, wizards, and goblins) in which improbable events lead to a happy ending.


Goblins, yes, Elves and Orcs would be high Fantasy.

Crumbly Writer

"Fairy Tale" refers to fairy tale characters, whether the happy Fairy Tales, or the more dire Faerie Tales of old. What you're looking for, is "High Fantasy", which deals with D&D and the "Lord of the Rings" type of Fantasy.

This entire site consists of fantasy, either sexual fantasy, imagined world fantasies or wish-fulfillment fantasies. If you want to find what you're looking for, you've got to be more specific.

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