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Cross Fertilization

richardshagrin

There are opportunities to write stories that merge different SOL worlds. For example, cross Naked in School with the magic school, Hogwarts. Or Damsels in Distress stories with Thinking Horndog's Swarm Series, where damsels get picked to be concubines. Of course cross fertilization involves fertilizer and people who are cross.

awnlee jawking

@richardshagrin

As a reader, I'd prefer that stories didn't broach two or more universes.

I found it a big turn-off when an engaging story suddenly veered into the 'Florida Friends' universe and assumed the reader knew all the characters.

I'm also unhappy that the Energists have gone 'Naked In School'. The whole premise of NiS is, IMO, unreasonable, and it besmirches the otherwise reasonable premises of the Energists universe.

YMMV.

AJ

Replies:   Dominions Son  Not_a_ID
Dominions Son

@awnlee jawking

As a reader, I'd prefer that stories didn't broach two or more universes.


I agree, for a crossover to work well, both stories need to fit reasonably in the same universe.

Not_a_ID

@awnlee jawking

I'm also unhappy that the Energists have gone 'Naked In School'. The whole premise of NiS is, IMO, unreasonable, and it besmirches the otherwise reasonable premises of the Energists universe.


The author was very up front about NIS being a significant part of the storyline back in the forward to the first part. So that one is kind of a bad example for the point you're trying to make regarding stories where the author decides to change course partway through and "go somewhere else." Which is something other authors have done, but n/a in this particular case.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
sunkuwan

It is more prevalent in Fanfiction. I mostly don't care about multi-Universe settings because it will become a circlejerk of revolving doors of cameos. The readers will demand every known character to appear.
Although, I really liked the fanfic where Ranma reincarnated as Robb Stark (and was the only character from Ranma 1/2 that appeared in the ASOIF universe.)

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID
Updated:

@richardshagrin

For example, cross Naked in School with the magic school, Hogwarts.


There actually is an incomplete "Naked at Hogwarts" out there.

In some respects a clever author could probably weave the two timelines together fairly well.

Where the changes/backstory that Karen Wagner outlined for the NiS premise is actually the outcome of a bunch of witches(and possibly wizards--in the Wagner version men over 21 couldn't go naked in public) deciding they didn't want to wear clothes(or illusions of clothes) while out in public.

It just becomes a matter of why "the wizarding world" became so interested in nudity(and sexuality) to the point of "actively meddling in muggle affairs."

Keep in mind, timeline wise, Harry Potter runs from 1991 to 1998. Karen Wagner goes Naked in School, as a non-magical, around 2001. Logically if this came from the screwy magical world, that "would explain a lot" about The Program in general, but also imply the Magical World is (mostly) on board with the idea, meaning they probably have already implemented their own version before "the muggles do."

It just becomes a "how and why?" Problem for a writer, and really, the Alternate Universe aspects of it ultimately makes it a very different story to what it was based upon, and mostly in regards to "theory and understanding of magic" as it relates to the Rowlingverse. As it pretty much requires nudity and/or sexual activity either strengthening a person's magic in general, or strengthening certain types of magic that are found to be beneficial/desirable enough for many magicals to pursue it aggressively and openly(well, openly on their side of things).

Not_a_ID
Updated:

@sunkuwan


It is more prevalent in Fanfiction. I mostly don't care about multi-Universe settings because it will become a circlejerk of revolving doors of cameos. The readers will demand every known character to appear.


Agreed, the one major problem with fan-fiction is that it is written by fans, for fans. Which is all well and good when they're your target audience. But as you adding in "other fandoms" from other settings, you just narrowed down the audience which will be devout fans of the various combinations that are then created. (And the "revolving door" can likewise be vexing in other ways)

Which brings us back to the initial problem of "written by fans, for fans" when another reader comes along who is not "a fan" of one of the just introduced settings. They may know absolutely nothing about that setting. However the writer assumed they do. Which is where things crash for that reader.

Non fan fiction authors can do much the same thing, fail to adequately describe or setup the environment/context the MC is in. It just happens to be more rare because those writers are more aware of the matter that "the reader doesn't know."

sunkuwan

The impact can be lessened if the Author properly introduces the characters and their characteristics without depending on the assumption that everyone knows the characters.
Many, many Authors just take a cardboard approach to their characterization of Canon characters in the assumption that the fans know how the characters behave and call it a day.

But if you treat every canon character like an original character, you can introduce whoever and don't agonize fans that don't know sh*t about the other franchise. Doesn't resolve the revolving door, though.

richardshagrin

I like the do-over meme, I wonder if it could be used with some Disney characters, We don't know much about Mickey Mouse's parents, maybe he could go back and be contemporaries with Uncle Scrooge. Or maybe one or more of Huey, Louie and Dewey (Donald's nephews) could go back. Or be naked in school. Although the Disney organization is kind of anal about their ownership of all their characters. And with our current president, characters named Donald may face political problems.

Ernest Bywater

@richardshagrin

While I think it's OK to have one series or story give a nod to another (I've done that with DW's Florida Friends in a few of my stories), and it's OK for a character to crossover into another series or universe (as Al does in going to the DiD Universe) I'm not sure you can merge two very different universes without harming one or the other. Cmsix did that with a couple of his stories to try to merge them all into the Nanoverse universe and didn't really manage it, and they were his own universes. I can see how you could make some fit in, but it would be very hard to make others fit well. For it to work they would have to be fairly close in many ways to start with.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@Ernest Bywater

Cmsix did that with a couple of his stories to try to merge them all into the Nanoverse universe and didn't really manage it, and they were his own universes. I can see how you could make some fit in, but it would be very hard to make others fit well. For it to work they would have to be fairly close in many ways to start with.


Isaac Asimov claimed just about the entirety of his body of (robot) fiction was set in the same universe. Just different corners or different times within it.

But that's all material that doesn't really conflict with itself.

Crossovers between franchises with wildly different takes on "how things work" is another matter. As you're going to need to "break" one in order to "make it work" in another.

(The Classic) Dracula running around in My Little Pony. The Hulk turning up in Starship Troopers(ok, that one might be hilarious, but for the wrong reasons). Star Trek and StarGate, so on and so forth.

Ernest Bywater

@Not_a_ID

Isaac Asimov claimed just about the entirety of his body of (robot) fiction was set in the same universe. Just different corners or different times within it.


Which you can see if you're familiar with them all. However, he had them laid out and the rules set the same so they were the one universe and fit together. Which is very different from trying to shove two different universes together.

Dominions Son

@Not_a_ID

Star Trek and StarGate, so on and so forth.


Star Trek / Star Wars cross over. What happens if the Borg manage to assimilate a Sith Lord?

sunkuwan

@Not_a_ID

I read a Buffy/Stargate Crossover some months ago. The premise was, that Willow used magic to run away and teleported to the SGC. First, I thought it was a parallel world but we find out, some chapters later, that it is the same universe just with two different secret organizations.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
AmigaClone

@Not_a_ID

Star Trek and StarGate


While I have not seen a crossover between those two, I have read "Planet X" which is a "Star Trek The Next Generation" meets "X-Men" crossover.

I also recall seeing some crossovers involving characters in the DC and Marvell universe.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@sunkuwan

I read a Buffy/Stargate Crossover some months ago. The premise was, that Willow used magic to run away and teleported to the SGC. First, I thought it was a parallel world but we find out, some chapters later, that it is the same universe just with two different secret organizations.


Some settings are less exclusive than others. Stargate and Buffy can coexist without too much going haywire.

Likewise, I have seen more than a few reasonably well done Stargate/Harry Potter crossovers get written(Where magicals are typically (near-ascension, on the evolutionary path at leasy) ancients who've lost their history). I know of a couple authors who've merged all three (HP/Buffy/Stargate) although that starts getting a little crazy.

But a counter example would be Divergent and/or The Hunger Games, where the nature of those settings limits what can interact with it before one side or another has to give way.

Not_a_ID

@AmigaClone

While I have not seen a crossover between those two, I have read "Planet X" which is a "Star Trek The Next Generation" meets "X-Men" crossover.


Star Trek and Stargate don't mesh because The Ancients seeded all life in the Milky Way, and human(Alterran) derived societies are the only ones that exist on the technology scale. The evil parasites not withstanding.

The Asgard are descended from humans, but their immortality through cloning came with a cost.

Admittedly, the Furling are unknown, but given the lore, it's a safe bet they were human as well. Presumably the Nox, Asgard, and Furling were human evolutions that resulted from the "first seeding" of the Milky Way by the Ancients. (We humans hail from the "second seeding" after the plague wiped out most life in the Galaxy)

But as such, Stargate's lore makes it "not play well with others" when it comes to non-human life forms, sentience, and the Milky Way Galaxy specifically.

AmigaClone

I can see a couple of ways to mix Star Trek and Stargate. The first would require holodeck technology equivalent to what existed in the Next Generation era prior to the reboot. In this case the entire adventure would have characters from the Star Trek universe interacting in a holodeck story set in the Stargate one, and for some reason the holodeck refuses to let them leave until they complete their task.

The second involves Q pulling an Enterprise into the Stargate universe. The explanation of the incompatible lores could imply that members of the Q continuum were involved in the creation of several universes. By the way, this is actually based on Q being involved in the X-men Star Trek crossover.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@AmigaClone

The second involves Q pulling an Enterprise into the Stargate universe. The explanation of the incompatible lores could imply that members of the Q continuum were involved in the creation of several universes. By the way, this is actually based on Q being involved in the X-men Star Trek crossover.


Q placing a Federation ship in an alternate universe(or other plot device doing the same) is a different thing than having Dick Tracy cross paths with Wolverine.

Holodecks exist in their own little special place.

Extraordinary events triggering a cross-over is one thing(and allows for "broken" outcomes). While attempts at more "mundane" cross-overs with wildly different settings is a different matter.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Not_a_ID

Extraordinary events triggering a cross-over is one thing(and allows for "broken" outcomes). While attempts at more "mundane" cross-overs with wildly different settings is a different matter.


Another way to pull off a weird cross over is to pull a Newhart ending.

Bob Newhart did two sitcoms one in the 60s where he played a psychologist in Chicago and one in the 80s where he played a travel writer running a bed and breakfast. They ended the second sitcom by having bob wake up as the character from the first series and the whole second series was just a dream.

awnlee jawking

@Not_a_ID

While the switch of genre to NiS was well signposted, so far I don't see that it has added anything to the series except length. However the NiS book hasn't yet concluded so there's still time for a reason to appear, something hinted at in the latest chapter.

AJ

Replies:   Not_a_ID
sunkuwan
Updated:

Just realized something while browsing another Forum.

Crossovers works better when you know your audience and know where to put the story.
Posting a NiS and Florida Friends crossover on SoL is no problem, there is a good chance that the userbase knows both Universes and would read it. But post it on other sites and the issue gets massively bigger.

There are many many sites who are dedicated to a single franchise like Naruto, Twilight, Harry Potter, Buffy, etc. Those sites have the advantage, that one of your Crossover Universe is already a favorite of the majority of the readers. If it's an active community, doing a crossover with Universe xyz could be a selling point to rise out of the hundred single-universe fics that are on that site.
Even those who don't know the other franchise can give it a go, to experience their favorite characters in other universes or the prime universe handling those characters from the other universe.

Not_a_ID

@awnlee jawking

While the switch of genre to NiS was well signposted, so far I don't see that it has added anything to the series except length. However the NiS book hasn't yet concluded so there's still time for a reason to appear, something hinted at in the latest chapter.


It's probably been hinted at all along. From an overly aggressive "body acceptance" perspective, much of the NiS concept works towards that kind of end-goal. Likewise for groups/persons who see no major problem with public nudity.

Also going back to things related to "body acceptance" (Which as a catch-phrase/jargon term actually post-dates NiS) there actually are studies and numerous (unscientific) surveys which back up the idea that (non-sexual) social nudity actually boasts a number of positive psychological outcomes for all ages.

Also remember, the Energists themselves don't wear clothes(except perhaps for "costume purposes"), as they saw no point in wearing something just for the sake of wearing it.

IIRC, UCLA actually did a long-term study regarding nudism, children, and sexuality that concluded in the 1990's, and it remains both the "most modern" and most comprehensive look at it. Some of their own findings actually present an argument for something kind-of-like-NiS being beneficial in total. Although their finding was very specific about the need for the child/juvenile being "the initiator" in such cases. Which would in turn destroy much of the NiS premise.

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