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Do-Over stories and their attraction

1111

I've read a couple of really good do-over stories this/last year. Some have made it to the finals of the Clit Awards, some haven't. But there are a lot of poor imitations out there also.
Two points I'd like to make, why are do-over stories so popular, are we all inherently optimistic, rooting for some wrong to be righted, some loser to have made the right decisions he otherwise didn't, satisfying our unspoken wish that things could've turned out better than they are.
Second point - is Al Steiner's 'Doing it all over again' the first and original do-over story in the realm of erotica. I know the concept has been around longer; Hollywood even had 'Peggy Sue got married' way back in 1986.

awnlee jawking

@1111

If you look at what makes a successful SOL story, it's mostly about appealing to the unfulfilled fantasies of the readers. A chance to go back and do things better is a typical wish for someone past the midpoint of a humdrum life.

There are one or two rather enjoyable doovers in progress at the moment - Mayhem in a Pill by Shinerdrinker and Getting it Wrong by G Younger spring to mind.

AJ

Replies:   1111
1111

@awnlee jawking

Thanks for pointing out those two stories. I thought Sage Mullins' Lightning in a Bottle was definitely one of the better ones I've read, and surprised it didn't make the Clit Awards, but then realized it was completed in 2014

Zom

@1111

way back in 1986.

You know how to make a guy feel old ... :-)

Replies:   1111  richardshagrin
1111

@Zom

Just watched the show again last night on a whim, I remember how much I enjoyed it years ago but now after reading so many do-over stories I felt this show was so flat. SOL has ruined it for me. 😩

richardshagrin

@Zom

If you were in your early 40s in 1986, as I was, neither of us is old. We are middle aged if we plan to live to be 142.

Replies:   JohnBobMead
JohnBobMead

@richardshagrin

If you were in your early 40s in 1986, as I was, neither of us is old. We are middle aged if we plan to live to be 142.


On the other hand, I was born in 1960, at the end of the year. But apparently I look older than I am, as I was given a senior discount at Jack in the box earlier today; didn't realize it until I entered my receipt in Quicken.

Replies:   Wheezer  docholladay
Wheezer

@JohnBobMead

On the other hand, I was born in 1960, at the end of the year. But apparently I look older than I am, as I was given a senior discount at Jack in the box earlier today; didn't realize it until I entered my receipt in Quicken.


One of the first signs of old age is being offered Senior discounts without asking for them! :D

Faulty memory is one of the other signs.

I can't remember any of the other signs...

Replies:   Bondi Beach  REP  Lugh
docholladay

@JohnBobMead

On the other hand, I was born in 1960, at the end of the year. But apparently I look older than I am, as I was given a senior discount at Jack in the box earlier today; didn't realize it until I entered my receipt in Quicken.


Heck I was born in 1949 and never got carded when I started hitting the bars and such. It might have been caused by my hair turning gray in my mid teens or something. I know I took advantage of that. Of course on the other end the times I worked in adult places, I carded everyone regardless of looks or age. Funny part is legally even someone who is old enough has to have ID to keep a business from being fined.

Replies:   sejintenej
docholladay

I was asking myself what if I had the chance to go back and avoid that damned hospital (I could have with my skills at that time). What would the overall affects have been? Worst answer was I would not have been there for all those kids and few adults along way later on. So going back and avoiding it would probably result in me being actually less of a person than I am now.

red61544

@1111

I mentioned it once before: I'm 72. The closer I get to the end, the more appealing the idea of a do-over becomes.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@red61544

There's no force on this planet that could make me go back and relive the '50s!

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@graybyrd

What was wrong, in your opinion about the 1950s? I assume the 1950s, It could be the 1850s or some other set of '50s, you don't have to do over your own life, I guess. Or maybe the decade you were 50 years old until 60. The early 1950s had the Korean Police Action, since congress did not declare it, it wasn't really a war, except maybe to the people who died or were wounded. The late 50s were leading up to Vietnam, another undeclared war, unless the Gulf of Tonkin resolution counts as one. Unless you were drafted, the middle part of the 50s was reasonable, as I recall, from being between 6 and 16. Early Rock and Roll. Getting ready for Hippies, but before them. Truman and Eisenhower as Presidents. Co-operation in Congress, for the most part. Prosperity, mostly.

docholladay

@richardshagrin

The early 1950s had the Korean Police Action, since congress did not declare it, it wasn't really a war, except maybe to the people who died or were wounded. The late 50s were leading up to Vietnam, another undeclared war,


I may sound crazy, but anytime the government sends troops into a major fight its got to be a war regardless of the damned label.

graybyrd
Updated:

@richardshagrin


What was wrong, in your opinion about the 1950s?


I was born in 1940, so the 1950's was the beginning of 'rational' awareness. Although it's almost impossible to rationalize a period while you're living it. So this is a 'looking back' reflection.

> National hysteria about Communism. It maliciously infected our behavior, attitudes, judgments, and actions. I look back on it as a time of national insanity. We were not a rational nation during that period. It culminated nearly half a century later in the Vietnam catastrophe. In my classroom, we lost a good teacher who refused to sign her "loyalty oath" as a point of principle. Teachers were not allowed to discuss the differences between the two systems, beyond that "Democracy & Capitalism is good" and "Communism & Socialism are evil." If a student were to inquire, "Why?" he'd become an immediate object of suspicion.

> Racism: prior to the 60's, we assumed that black people were invisible, and were better served by staying invisible. Jackie Robinson was at first a huge shock, and then became our "poster boy" to prove that America was so great that we'd never been guilty of racism. After all, hadn't we fought a Civil War to end slavery? Little did we suspect that the 60's would expose our true selves... and it wouldn't be pretty.

> Materialism: America went on a huge shopping spree. Bigger cars with huge tail fins was just the beginning. Everything you could desire came on the credit plan. Keeping up with the Joneses next door. Every child will go to college; every child will grow up to be "better off" with more of everything. Early into the 21st century, we've achieved massive student loan debt, national credit card debt that equals the national debt, and a huge hangover. We no longer believe that "every child" will grow up to be better off than their parents.

> Sexism: women in corporate America, or the professions, or political life, were virtually unknown. Women were restricted to a narrow range of work and men were mostly excluded. Being a male nurse, a male secretary, or a male (elementary) school teacher, was seen as effeminate and demeaning. Male teachers in high school and beyond were accepted, because a 'strong arm' was needed to control unruly young male students. America denied this, of course. Not so much denied, as we were blind to it. Television sit-coms idealized the "housewife and mother" role, and the "father knows best" roles, cementing the stereotypes. Let a WOMAN run for President? Are you shittin' me?

> Homophobia and other intolerances: it was perfectly legal to "beat the shit" out of queers, homos, and faggots. Well, not "legal," exactly... but everyone looked the other way. It pretty much culminated in national disgust when a university student was crucified on a mid-winter Wyoming fence.

> A-Bomb insanity: I actually got to learn how to dive under my school desk, kneel on the floor, and tuck my head down between my knees. "Duck & Cover" would save us from the Communist A-Bomb sneak attack. Teachers were forced to do this while maintaining a serious attitude. Giggling was not allowed. Neither was questioning the sense of it.

> Religious intolerance: everybody was a good little Christian. Others? What others? "Ecumenical" meant that Baptists were expected to tolerate Lutherans, and hopefully, vice versa. We were still trying to understand why a Jew should be allowed to run for office. After all, we let them vote, didn't we? But a JEW for President? Hell, we wouldn't even let a CATHOLIC be President!

> Elvis Presley, Rock n' Roll, and Teenage Angst: EP has become an object of satire (10,000 EP impersonators, anybody?), Rock n' Roll has evolved, and thank God! I never have to hear another lovesick "Teen Angel" top-50s hit.

> Eugene McCarthy: further proof that Congress is a dysfunctional cesspit of egos, greed, opportunism, cat-fights, hissy-fits, and a magnifier of every bad aspect of the human soul. At least today it no longer pretends to be the bastion of "American Democracy." It's dropped all pretense, as it's accountable only to those who own it, and no longer to those who vote.

More? I could go on and on ... after all, I grew up during those "days of yesteryear," as the Lone Ranger announcer called it.

You're in Seattle. I'm north in the Islands. Washington was great for racism: we truly believed that Indians were fat, greasy, drunken, shiftless, and constantly whining about not getting the "free ride" that their treaties were supposed to provide.

During one university year, on tour with a summer group giving presentations, I stood on the school grounds of Friday Harbor H.S. and listened to the principal explain the 'little brick building' set off by itself behind the main school. "That's the classroom for our Indian students," he explained to us. "It's kind of a baby-sitting thing. They don't learn as well as our regular students."

Washington? Racist? Nooooo ... just sortin' 'em out according to capabilities. Right?

I could go on about the 50s, but maybe I've made my point.

EDIT to add a footnote:

The 50s was like a drunken binge for America. We'd just emerged from the fears, sacrifices, and rationing of WW-II. And the preceding Depression Years were still fresh in family memories: every grandparent had lived through it; every parent had suffered the effects; and every kid heard the stories at the dinner table. Now we'd survived WW-II (my stepdad was a wounded sergeant from the Aleutian Islands invasion campaign) and we were free to cut loose and enjoy "the best of everything."

It was the Sixties that came as a huge shock, with unprecedented national upheaval as a mirror that showed us the false image of ourselves that we'd hidden behind.

Replies:   docholladay  Uwe1860  xman  sagacious
docholladay

@graybyrd

> A-Bomb insanity: I actually got to learn how to dive under my school desk, kneel on the floor, and tuck my head down between my knees. "Duck & Cover" would save us from the Communist A-Bomb sneak attack. Teachers were forced to do this while maintaining a serious attitude. Giggling was not allowed. Neither was questioning the sense of it.


I always looked at that as "Kiss your ass goodbye" practice. Because if one of those bombs was dropped anywhere near me, that is what would happen.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@docholladay

I always looked at that as "Kiss your ass goodbye" practice. Because if one of those bombs was dropped anywhere near me, that is what would happen.


Well, yeah! Of course. Even us little kids weren't that dense. We'd seen endless repeats of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki a-bomb blast footage, and heard the sanctified deep bass voices of TV commentators musing about the "radius of destruction" an A-Bomb blast would cause, and then go on to explain in great detail the order of magnitude greater destructiveness of the H-Bomb. And the (gasp!) Soviets had stolen the H-Bomb secrets, and we were living on the knife-edge of Destruction at the Hands of the Communist Conspiracy!

So we all knew we were destined to be little crispy critters under charred desktops when the Civil Defense people came to scrape us up.

But to question the National Civil Defense Authority? In those days?

Yer kiddin' me, right?

Yeh, the 50's ... Lawrence Welk said it: "wunnerful, wunnerful!"

Uwe1860

@graybyrd

I'm guessing you meant Joseph McCarthy, not Eugene. ;)

Replies:   richardshagrin  graybyrd
richardshagrin

@Uwe1860

And then there is Charlie McCarthy, the ventriloquist's dummy. Although he wasn't a senator, it wasn't qualified as it wasn't 30 years old.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
graybyrd

@Uwe1860

I'm guessing you meant Joseph McCarthy, not Eugene. ;)


Absolutely ... yer right. Damn, there went another brain fart. And I was so sure...

Ernest Bywater

@richardshagrin

And then there is Charlie McCarthy, the ventriloquist's dummy. Although he wasn't a senator, it wasn't qualified as it wasn't 30 years old.


Also, he was smarter than all the elected ones put together.

BlinkReader
Updated:

Brrr...

If you americans are thinking that of your great state, what we around your "pristine democracy" should think about you?

I have seen with my eyes what your "democracy" gave to us, our friends, our neighbors, our enemies...

Just a couple of days ago I was walking thru rubles of another broken and destroyed village.

And do you know what is worst of all?

Smells of destruction, of sheer utter destruction.

We have lost around twenty thousand people during our war.

Our neighbors have lost two hundred thousand people during their war.

Their neighbors have lost couple of millions till now, and war is still ravaging their country.
And for what they died?

How many people are going to die in next one?
How many is going to be enough?

Is it not enough to wish to have some do-over?

sejintenej

@docholladay

Of course on the other end the times I worked in adult places, I carded everyone regardless of looks or age. Funny part is legally even someone who is old enough has to have ID to keep a business from being fined.

I got carded in Florida at a family restaurant where I don't think they even sold alcohol - I certainly didn't order anything more dangerous than coke. I was in my late forties at the time, but when I was in my teens people thought I was close to 30. Seems stupid to me .....

Dominions Son

@sejintenej

I got carded in Florida at a family restaurant where I don't think they even sold alcohol


The were checking to see if you qualified for the senior discount.

Ernest Bywater

@sejintenej

I got carded in Florida at a family restaurant where I don't think they even sold alcohol


Maybe they were checking to see if you qualified for the free Oldtimers drugs to be added to the drinks.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@Ernest Bywater

Maybe they were checking to see if you qualified for the free Oldtimers drugs to be added to the drinks.


Heck I was underage when I was working in a pool hall serving beer. I started that policy just to keep the cops out of the place. Then I later found out the law actually requires customers to have their valid legal ID or the business is subject to fines. Its a portion of the law which isn't advertised so probably there in case the cops need a loop hole.

Ernest Bywater

@docholladay

I later found out the law actually requires customers to have their valid legal ID or the business is subject to fines.


Down here it's been the law for many a decade, and also part of the law for them to display a notice saying they're required to check for ID and why.

I know in some places the relevant law requires the ID of everyone in the place has to be checked if the place sells or serves alcohol.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@Ernest Bywater

Down here it's been the law for many a decade


Its the same here. But like I said its not really advertised and makes me think they have it on the books so there are other ways a business and/or individuals can be fined for.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater

@docholladay

But like I said its not really advertised and makes me think they have it on the books so there are other ways a business and/or individuals can be fined for.


It shouldn't need

sejintenej

@docholladay

Then I later found out the law actually requires customers to have their valid legal ID

In France you must carry ID at all times but in 18 years (except at borders occasionally) I have never been asked for it. (I have had many encounters with the gendamerie and douane (customs) within France and they were always courteous - though I was never under suspicion)

xman
Updated:

@graybyrd

Oh, so true, I dare to add a little to it. We are country that stands for freedom, justice for everyone, however, it simply does not apply to those who aren't white. It simply does not! The school books are criminally lacking the truth the way Indians have being treated by the colonizers. We were the most rapacious, aggressive, destructive, tortuous, monstrous people, who swept from one coast to the other, murdering and causing mayhem among the Indians. We do not like to see ourselves as such. We rather like to see ourselves the way John Wayne did."

richardshagrin
Updated:

@xman

Selected Europeans treated the peoples of the Americas that same way they treated their neighbors in Europe. Romans came, saw and conquered. Vikings raided and settled. Normans started out as Northmen (of Viking Heritage) and went on to conquer England from the Angles and Saxons who had displaced original owners to Wales and Scotland. Celts, or was it Celtics? No, those are the basketball players from Boston, who are mostly African American these days. Spain did a lot of conquering in South and Central America, and North America too, although there wasn't that much gold here. But they did it in Italy first. And they had Moors from North Africa take over much of the Iberian Peninsula first. And the Mongols weren't European, they just conquered a lot of it, for a time. France under Napoleon went for an Empire, and Blownapart even visited Egypt with a lot of offensively minded soldiers.

You are authorized to say bad things about our ancestors, nearly all of them are either true or have a grain of truth, but it appears to be human behavior you are criticizing. The Indians (native Americans) weren't all that peaceful before Columbus, or after him before the Colonizers got gunpowder and disease organized to help them remove occupants of territory the colonizers wanted. Might apparently makes right and the victors mostly get to write the history. Win, die, move somewhere else or become slaves, serfs or impoverished farmers.

The Poles went through mostly the same thing, except they got some of their country back. And while Poland didn't exist, some Polish speakers came to the Americas and helped implement manifest destiny. Along with a lot of other Europeans. Its not my fault natives tried to defend valuable land against rifles with bows and arrows.

Replies:   xman
graybyrd

@xman

We rather like to see ourselves the way John Wayne did."


Why Hell, Pilgrim! We ARE John Wayne, don't ya know? As for murdering and causing mayhem there was a time when California had a bounty on Indians the same as varmints. They paid for ears as proof. (Read "Ishi: the last Yahi." It will break your heart. True historical account.)

https://www.library.ucsf.edu/collections/archives/ucsf/ishi

I've sincerely come to believe that we Americans were the continuation of a European culture of rapacious greed, racism, aggression, colonization, and murder. We've tempered it a bit: now we engage in economic rather than geographic plunder. But the culture is the same.

richardshagrin

And if we lose that attitude, history suggests some people with those characteristics will replace us. There are a lot of Moslems who would be glad to do so. Some of them are practicing in France and Belgium. And of course there were a couple of rehearsals at the World Trade Center in Manhattan.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd

@richardshagrin

And if we lose that attitude, history suggests some people with those characteristics will replace us.


I fondly remember the memorable words of former Senator Steve Symms (R-Idaho) who famously said, "If we don't stop 'em in South America, we'll be standing on the north rim of the Snake River Canyon with our Winchesters in hand."

That was a bit much even for Redneck Idaho; Symms was defeated in the next election.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@xman

The school books are criminally lacking the truth the way Indians have being treated by the colonizers. We were the most rapacious, aggressive, destructive, tortuous, monstrous people, who swept from one coast to the other, murdering and causing mayhem among the Indians. We do not like to see ourselves as such. We rather like to see ourselves the way John Wayne did."


I went through high school in the 90's, but I was an oddity in that I loved history enough to read the textbook in full, not just the parts covered in class. As such, it's hard to recall which came from the text, and which came from the teacher.

...But even in the highly conservative community I came from at that time, the text talked about the screwed up "land trades" and some of the exemplar cases, like Manhattan island for a chest of beads. How the natives saved the Pilgrims from starvation only to be thanked a generation later with deliberately smallpox infected blankets that the colonists knew they had little to no resistance to.

Leaded face paints(not quite so deliberately malicious, but if they'd known, they probably would have tried to do more trade in that), as well as their known susceptibility to alcohol and alcoholism which traders and settlers alike capitalized on.

Treaties only being binding so long as they suited the interests of the settlers was another one. The worst example being the Trail of Tears, where the involved tribes had their day in court, and won their case before the Supreme Court. Only for Andrew Jackson to tell the court to get lost and boot them off their lands anyhow, because someone found gold in them thar hills. The black hills of South Dakota being another example that also gave us Custer's Battle of the Little Big Horn.

Due to where I'm from, Chief Joseph's story was also known, complete with details of the massacres perpetrated against his tribe by the pursuing Cavalry forces.

The abysmal conditions found at most reservations were detailed, as again, we had a nasty tendency to seize any reservation land we thought might be valuable or otherwise productive. Leaving them only with the lands we could find no use for.

The reeducation camps weren't forgotten either. It was all there, whether or not the teacher spent much time on it was another matter. And that was only about 20 years ago.

Replies:   demonmaster62
jimh67

In answer to the original question, have you noticed how many protagonists come back as good looking, buff high school football players who bonk the whole cheerleading squad, often several at a time? I know there have been studies on it, but those four years of high school can have a huge carry-over effect on a person's mental and emotional outlook for decades after the senior prom. A lot of folks would like to think if given a chance they could be one of the cool kids, screwing an endless supply of underage girls without risk of going to jail.

Replies:   graybyrd
graybyrd
Updated:

@jimh67


screwing an endless supply of underage girl


It's generally forgotten that young women from puberty upward through college age, from the 1950s onward, were "armored" by their mothers in panty girdles that took a full five minutes to wiggle down for a bathroom break, and another fifteen minutes to squirm back upward and smooth out. These girdles had short legs that extended partway down the upper thigh, and a waist that extended upward above the navel, nearly to the breasts.

These garments were called "armor" for a good reason; they were nearly as good as the chastity belts of medieval fame.

Too bad the Sears-Roebuck catalogs are extinct; teen boys of that era spent endless hours surreptitiously memorizing the women's lingerie and undergarment pages! Panty girdles were a prominent part of that section.

xman
Updated:

@richardshagrin

Well done Sir, you have managed to turn my assertion of "white"racism into something entirely different.

Nice try though, it does not change the fact, the way white men have treated Indians then, in this instance, as well as treatment of them, nowadays.

Crumbly Writer

@richardshagrin

Unless you were drafted, the middle part of the 50s was reasonable, as I recall, from being between 6 and 16.

I agree with graybyrd. I shake at the thought of spending another day in the 50s, and I'm fairly young. The general temperament of the country (the U.S.) was horrendously restrictive. You either thought like everyone else, parroted the party line, or they made your life a living hell.

The 60s, while changing and more exciting, is also unappealing, as so many things have improved since that time, and so many things were still badly broken.

Frankly, I'm happy in the present. It's hardly perfect, and we have major problems, but the inevitable march of time brings us a little closer every decade or so. Hell, I still remember outhouses in the 50s, and I'm not about to revisit those on cold winters' eves again!

Replies:   graybyrd  sejintenej
graybyrd
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


Hell, I still remember outhouses in the 50s, and I'm not about to revisit those on cold winters' eves again!


ALERT! Boring Old Man Story Follows!

Sub-zero January night on the homestead; step-father had a candle-holder in the outhouse (early & long winter nights!) and a box of wooden kitchen 'strike anywhere' matches beside it. Shivering & impatient, he struck a match, lit the candle, and dropped the match down the 'other' hole beside him (we had a 'two-holer' outhouse).

Within moments he jumped up with a yell, and ran for the house with his pants half down; the outside spigot was frozen, the hose was frozen, and the bucket of water on the porch was frozen.

Alerted by the orange glow coming through the windows, our small family gathered on the porch to watch our outhouse blazing in the winter night. The match had ignited the old catalog pages used for bum-wipe, and that caught the old boards on fire. It was a total loss.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@graybyrd

Sub-zero January night on the homestead; step-father had a candle-holder in the outhouse (early & long winter nights!) and a box of wooden kitchen 'strike anywhere' matches beside it. Shivering & impatient, he struck a match, lit the candle, and dropped the match down the 'other' hole beside him (we had a 'two-holer' outhouse).


He's lucky he was lucky it didn't explode due to methane gas.

Replies:   graybyrd  REP
graybyrd

@Dominions Son

He's lucky he was lucky it didn't explode due to methane gas.


Simply not possible.

The reason that outhouses were so objectionable, stinking, and pestilent, is that the poo piled up, was exposed to the air, was not mixed with any other organic matter, and was unable to compost or otherwise decompose. It just sat there in a stinking mass.

Modern outdoor composting toilets solved that problem. Washington State parks use Clivus Multrum composters; they're essentially odor-free and compost-producers. Federal parks still use the old concrete pit toilets, and they're horrible stench pits; nobody stands downwind of them.

Also, in winter, it was entirely too cold for any detectable bio activity in the toilet pit. Just a whole lot of discarded soiled paper down there, laying loose and waiting for a flame!

So, no, no methane gas. But don't stand behind a cow with an open flame! (grin)

Not_a_ID
Updated:

@graybyrd


I fondly remember the memorable words of former Senator Steve Symms (R-Idaho) who famously said, "If we don't stop 'em in South America, we'll be standing on the north rim of the Snake River Canyon with our Winchesters in hand."

That was a bit much even for Redneck Idaho; Symms was defeated in the next election.


Uh, he didn't run for reelection in 1992. Slightly different critter than losing a reelection bid. Although I guess it might have played out in 92 like Senator Craig's (R-Idaho) restroom mishap a few years back, but I don't recall any local flak aimed his direction back then. But as I was a preteen when he likely said that, I'll defer to others as to the media and local responses. Although I doubt his constituents back home cared much at that point, even if the media did.

His Senate seat then went Dirk Kempthorm, a fellow Republican that left the Senate 6 years later to become Governor instead.

P.S. Also, I don't think Idaho has rednecks in any sense that most of the country would be able to identify. At the very least, they don't talk like rednecks. Plenty of pickups, gunracks, and all that stuff, although that is usually the domain of either farmers(working trucks), or outdoors enthusiasts(hunting/fishing/snowmobiling/water skiing/etc), who generally are fairly well edumacated in order to be able to afford all their toys. ;)

sejintenej
Updated:

@Crumbly Writer


Hell, I still remember outhouses in the 50s, and I'm not about to revisit those on cold winters' eves again!


Whan I was about 7 or so I mourned being in the Mountains of Mourne (I kid you not). It was pissing, really pissing down, the jenny was away from the house and I got a case of the screaming ab-dabs. I had to run late at night and, I suspect, without any form of light (no electricity in those days, only candles). I was soaked by the time I got there and by the time I got back to the house I had to go again, and again and...

Many years later, guiding an English group from hut to hut in Scandinavia the place we got to for the first night had outdoor loos. It was only about 15° or 20° below freezing and of course the customers needed the loos. Not speaking the language they were informed that "gute" was girls and "pike" was boys - of course the locals knew better though I never heard of any "interesting" confrontations.

1111

I certainly enjoyed the meandering discourse on do-overs, the scary 50s, and cold wet outhouses, but can someone confirm or refute my contention that Al Steiner's Doing it All Over was the first significant do-over story in erotica. Nothing from ASSTR or elsewhere comes to mind.
Chris aka 1111

Replies:   Gauthier
Gauthier

@1111

Al Steiner's Doing it All Over was the first significant do-over story in erotica.


http://do-over.wikifoundry.com/
Has some books predating Al Steiner, but the only one which may be "erotica" is
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaleidoscope_Century
Crtitics says:
"This is the most unsuitable book for children in the history of the universe..."

However, I'm not quite sure it qualifies as do-over, the mechanics is more of a jump forward in time with rejuvenation and big memory loss.

demonmaster62

@Not_a_ID

I'm betting you've already read it, but for those that really want "The other side of the story" The book to read is "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee"

I don't care how much of a Man's man you are, that book will have you in tears in places.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Bondi Beach

@Wheezer

One of the first signs of old age is being offered Senior discounts without asking for them! :D


Heh. Or being asked, "Are you OK?" by the young woman lifeguard as you get out of the pool ...

bb

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Bondi Beach

My barber gives a lower price for haircuts for senior citizens (65 plus). I used to have to ask for it (Hair is getting gray but not bald yet, maybe a higher forehead than once upon a time) but now he automatically charges the senior rate.

Crumbly Writer

@richardshagrin

My barber gives a lower price for haircuts for senior citizens (65 plus). I used to have to ask for it (Hair is getting gray but not bald yet, maybe a higher forehead than once upon a time) but now he automatically charges the senior rate.

I'm not yet technically a senior citizen, but several restaurants I frequent keep giving me the senior citizen's discounts--I'm hoping it's just to reduce the price I pay, rather than my looking so much older than I actually am!

On a side note, I've always have a high forehead, and was balding rapidly while working in the banking industry in Manhattan. Once I quit, my hair lost essentially halted. I've got a growing bald spot, but as I can't see it myself, I tend not to notice it.

Crumbly Writer

@demonmaster62

I'm betting you've already read it, but for those that really want "The other side of the story" The book to read is "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee"

I don't care how much of a Man's man you are, that book will have you in tears in places.

The truly depressing thing about that book, is that conditions haven't gotten any better since the book was first published decades ago!

Replies:   richardshagrin
richardshagrin

@Crumbly Writer

Truths you may not want to consider, like conditions haven't gotten any better since ... decades ago.

You feel as well now as you ever will. Prices are as low now as they ever will be again. The older you get the more likely it is that your future income will be less than your current expenditures. This may not be true for the very young, but us senior citizens certainly live with it. Considering college loans, very young may be those not yet of college age.

Food tastes as good today as it ever will again. Your hearing is better now than tomorrow and so is your eyesight. Your friends will die. If your wife dies, your (her) friends will stop knowing you. You will start worrying what to do with your estate, if you are fortunate. Or you may live in a nursing home and won't have one after a year or so.

Growing old is not for sissies, but its better than the only alternative. The two realities, Death and Taxes, and they are working on postponing death.

sejintenej

@richardshagrin

My barber gives a lower price for haircuts for senior citizens (65 plus). I used to have to ask for it (Hair is getting gray but not bald yet, maybe a higher forehead than once upon a time) but now he automatically charges the senior rate.

My hair has gone to the blonde it was 70 years ago (according to the photos) and my forehead is little higher. For that I get free public buses anywhere in t(he UK, a third off trains, a discount on haircuts, on entry to historic places,special cheap menu (normal items but slightly smaller helpings)in several of the local pubs, an increased nil tax allowance and discounts all over the place.
Given I no longer need business clothes, fares to work, City lunches (twice the cost of elsewhere), I can deal when the market is open and I can avoid the rush hours and get to the shops when I want ....................Life is good!

jhncanson

I just had a thought of another kind of do-over. If you know any stories like this, please reply to my post.

A do-over where instead of the protagonist going back in the past, his 'old' body dies and he wakes up in a 'new' body that looks like his old self, a total clean slate, he could pose as a grandson of his old self.

Replies:   samuelmichaels
samuelmichaels

@jhncanson

A do-over where instead of the protagonist going back in the past, his 'old' body dies and he wakes up in a 'new' body that looks like his old self, a total clean slate, he could pose as a grandson of his old self.

There are a few at at http://do-over.wikifoundry.com/ -- check out the "Body Switch Stories" section.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@samuelmichaels

There are a few at at http://do-over.wikifoundry.com/ -- check out the "Body Switch Stories" section.

There are also a couple here on SOL where someone travels back but ends up in the wrong body (most often changing their sex in the process).

Replies:   jhncanson
jhncanson

@Crumbly Writer

Alot of great stories here in SOL that has female protagonists, sadly, when i read a story, i try to put myself in the protagonist's shoes, i am a man, therefore i find it hard to immerse myself in the story.

docholladay
Updated:

@jhncanson

Another good series is by Joe J his "Twice Lucky" stories even if they don't have the series flag set.

The links for Joe's page and the three stories are:

http://storiesonline.net/a/Joe_J

http://storiesonline.net/s/40278/twice-lucky

http://storiesonline.net/s/41086/twice-lucky-ii-time-for-a-change

and last but sadly unfinished:

http://storiesonline.net/s/42780/twice-lucky-iii-divergence

From the posting dates it looks like another storyteller has disappeared on us. We will probably never know why unless someone who knows him in r/l tells us.

Replies:   Crumbly Writer
Crumbly Writer

@jhncanson

Alot of great stories here in SOL that has female protagonists, sadly, when i read a story, i try to put myself in the protagonist's shoes, i am a man, therefore i find it hard to immerse myself in the story.

Not me. When I read stories, I want to be immersed in worlds I'll never encounter on my own. If a story told from a woman's perspective offers a new insight into the world at large, or a new fictional world, then I'm all for it.

It sounds like you're more into 'wish fulfillment', rather than simply looking for decent stories. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's a different kettle of fish entirely.

Replies:   Grant
Crumbly Writer

@docholladay

From the posting dates it looks like another storyteller has disappeared on us. We will probably never know why unless someone who knows him in r/l tells us.

When I die, I plan on writing a bunch of fictional accounts of what happened to me, and then post them to the various forums I participated in and watch all the lowly 'still living' humans scratch their heads! 'D

Grant

@Crumbly Writer

Not me. When I read stories, I want to be immersed in worlds I'll never encounter on my own. If a story told from a woman's perspective offers a new insight into the world at large, or a new fictional world, then I'm all for it.

Tangent is an excellent example of that, as is The Cost of Time.
And don't forget the Bec - Lost in the Maze Universe series.

Replies:   richardshagrin  1111
richardshagrin

@Grant

In addition to Gina Marie Wylie, Rache and her various pseudonyms had lots of interesting female protagonists. Its normal to write what you know, so authoresses have an advantage writing female characters.

1111

@Grant

'Once more with feeling' was excellent for me in presenting the man's perspective in a female body and vice versa, apart from also being a great story

sagacious

@graybyrd

As you are 10 years older than I you saw much more of this than I did. Being born in 1950 to parents who had both served in the army I grew up with a kind of freedom children of today will never see. I walked the 1.7 miles to my grade school accompanied by the rest of the kids from my neighborhood. My mother walked me there the first day of kindergarden and expected me to know the way from then on. When we were walking to school we had no guards or even chaperons. The same for playing outside. We could play in the streets most days because traffic was rare. We often knew the people in the cars that went by. In 1962 I got my first bicycle and rode it all around the town. On Halloween an older brother or sister would escort the smallest kids just to make sure they don't run into traffic in their excitement.

If you think that the USA went commie crazy, you should hear the tales from the USSR. Both leaderships, and actually the whole world, were so scared by the destructive power of the atom bomb that they didn't trust it in anyone else's hands. Paranoia was king, and queen, and parliment and everything else. All the attitudes and problems you are so down on were handed down through history. Moving beyond these "truths" is called the maturation of a society. It doesn't happen overnight anymore than climate change. The difference is that in some small amount you and your attitude can effect societal evolution.

Replies:   docholladay  sejintenej
docholladay

@sagacious

The bad ones were still there, just not publicized like they are now. Of course then any sentence a child molester got, regardless of the time limitations, was the same as a death sentence. Once they hit the prisons they were walking dead men or women. They had a very bad accidental death problem, or so it appeared.

Its probably one of the reasons that Atlanta Police Detective who was finally caught in the act, was only given Early Frigging Retirement as his punishment.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@docholladay

Its probably one of the reasons that Atlanta Police Detective who was finally caught in the act, was only given Early Frigging Retirement as his punishment.

Well, that and Cops turned inmates are a high risk factor in and of themselves. So a cop doing time as a child molester would almost need to serve his sentence out in solitary confinement if he wanted to survive prison.

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@Not_a_ID

Bad part is they buried his name and records as far as the public can find out.

At times I think I was wrong in not accepting the offers from a couple of groups that owed me favors. They offered to take care of him for me. Both groups probably had sources of information that would have gotten the information on his location if they wanted it bad enough.

sejintenej

@sagacious

Being born in 1950 ...I grew up with a kind of freedom children of today will never see. I walked the 1.7 miles to my grade school accompanied by the rest of the kids from my neighborhood. My mother walked me there the first day of kindergarden and expected me to know the way from then on.

I can add nearly a decade to that. As to school it was over 2 miles and a 300 foot climb through a field usually full of cattle - no BS and no bull. Since we got about 100 inches of rain a year it often meant a day of school soaked to the skin.

When we were walking to school we had no guards or even chaperons. The same for playing outside. We could play in the streets most days because traffic was rare.


No traffic, no TV, no cinema but very much an outdoor life. I even learned to drive in an ex US Army DUKW before I was a teenager

If you think that the USA went commie crazy, you should hear the tales from the USSR. Both leaderships, and actually the whole world, were so scared by the destructive power of the atom bomb that they didn't trust it in anyone else's hands. Paranoia was king, and queen, and parliment and everything else.

I was in boarding school about when you were born. The UK was also paranoid about the USSR, expecting the bomb at any moment so in school a number of us were trained in rescue, first aid, fire fighting etc. and used to 48 hour training exercises. By the age of 17 I was trained to deliver a baby, work on spinal injuries and anything less extreme on the basis that it would take 30 days to get medical help. We even learned about radiation sickness and, though they never made the connection, we even carried .303 Lee Enfields

Replies:   Argon
rvbuilder

@1111

I enjoy time travel stories, and do-over stories. However, I think that if you went back to a certain point in your life and picked choice B instead of choice A, you might mess up a whole lot of other things. I'm sure my life would be vastly different today if I hadn't married my ex-wife.

Argon
Updated:

@sejintenej


As to school it was over 2 miles and a 300 foot climb through a field usually full of cattle -


😄

I've got one better:

Eric Idle: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."

Michael Palin: But you try and tell the young people today that... and they won't believe ya'.

"Four Yorkshiremen", Monty Python's Flying Circus

Sorry, couldn't resist!

Replies:   sejintenej
sejintenej
Updated:

@Argon


Eric Idle: Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night, half an hour before I went to bed, eat a lump of cold poison, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad would kill us, and dance about on our graves singing "Hallelujah."


Argon;

I don't keep a log of people but I guess you are a Brit and will know of Upstairs, Downstairs. From 1950 or so (year of the St David's Hotel bombing) I was doing the washing up after "they" had dinner at night, taking the tea up early in the morning and shelling the peas etc. in the afternoon after school.

It's called "Service"

Heard of Monty Python - never saw one of his shows. Saw "Sink the Bismark" - 1960 and then no films until this century.

Replies:   Grant
Grant

@sejintenej

know of Upstairs, Downstairs.

And more recently, although still some time ago now, Gosford Park.

LonelyDad

Our whole world is based on competition, whether plant or animal. Winner gets what they want, loser gets what's left over. Nothing left over, bye bye. There are a few symbiotic relationships like sharks and remoras, but for the most part not. At least now there are more people recognizing that placing limits on the competition might help, and social 'safety nets' are needed. Unfortunately, that thinking is based on the fact of a (usually local) surplus of things needed. If the surplus goes away, so do the limits and the safety nets. And it's not just humans who do this. Look at the spread of the killer bees and the fire ants, the spread if kudzu, watch vines kill a forest. In this world, the winners get what they want, and the losers get out of the way. If there is nowhere to go, the losers die. Sometimes Mother Nature is the winner, sometimes She loses. It has made us what we are, and there are some theories that if there were not so much competition in the world, many things would not have evolved as far as they have.

Let the outrage begin!

REP

@Wheezer

I can't remember any of the other signs


I have a problem with that. Give me some time and I might recall what that problem is. :)

REP

@Dominions Son

methane gas


The decomposition of shit requires heat to generate methane gas. Does that happen in Sub-Zero weather. :)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@REP

The decomposition of shit requires heat to generate methane gas. Does that happen in Sub-Zero weather. :)


1. The decomposition process is exothermic, it generates heat.

2. The ground below a few feet maintains a more or less constant temp year round regardless of surface air temps.

3. Most outhouses will have material in various stages decomp

So yes, unless you are north of the arctic circle, where ground temps are below freezing (permafrost) the decomp process will keep going through the winter.

Replies:   REP
REP

@Dominions Son


1. The decomposition process is exothermic, it generates heat.

2. The ground below a few feet maintains a more or less constant temp year round regardless of surface air temps.


1) True but some heat is required to start the process.

2) True, however the surfaces of a hole are exposed to the air, so shit in an outhouse hole would be at air temperature.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@REP

1) True but some heat is required to start the process.

2) True, however the surfaces of a hole are exposed to the air, so shit in an outhouse hole would be at air temperature.


1. It would get all the heat in needed during the summer.

2. Not true.
2.a It is also exposed to heat from the ground.
2.b Unless there is mechanical air circulation, the air in the pit would be warmed by both ground contact and the contents of the pit. This warm air layer will insulate the pit somewhat from surface air temps.

Replies:   REP
REP
Updated:

@Dominions Son


1. It would get all the heat in needed during the summer.


I don't know where you live, but I have never lived anywhere that has sub-zero temperatures during the summer.

What started the chat was "Sub-zero January night ..."

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@REP

I don't know where you live, but I have never lived anywhere that has sub-zero temperatures during the summer.


You miss the point. The decomposition process would get started during the warm summer months, but once started, it will generate enough heat to keep going through the winter. I live in Wisconsin. I have used outhouses during cold weather. The shit in the pit does not freeze.

Wheezer
Updated:

Having lived with/suffered through using an outhouse until I was 17 years old, I can assure you that decomposition comes to a halt when the temperature drops low enough. Shit freezes solid into little shitcicles and builds up shit stalagmites that will reach the toilet seat if not kept knocked over, We kept a stick handy to accomplish that job. :)

It probably is dependent on how deep the pit is, and how drafty the outhouse is. I know that the one I grew up with was drafty enough and probably shallow enough that it occasionally froze, & I lived quite a bit further south than Wisconsin.

Replies:   Dominions Son  REP
Dominions Son
Updated:

@Wheezer


It probably is dependent on how deep the pit is, and how drafty the outhouse is. I know that the one I grew up with was drafty enough and probably shallow enough that it occasionally froze, & I lived quite a bit further south than Wisconsin.


It possibly also depends on how much use, how much fresh material it gets over the winter.

There is also a difference between occasionally freezing and routinely freezing up for the entire winter.

Another issue is how deep the waste in the pit is, even if the top few inches or couple of feet freeze, decomp, and therefore methane production can keep going in deeper layers.

Earth (as in dirt, gravel, sand and stone, not the planet) has a much higher thermal mass than the air, so does shit. So heat transferred to/from the earth will always exceed heat transfer to/from the air.

A few days of sub-zero temps isn't likely to cause a freeze in an outhouse pit, even if it did, it's not likely to freeze more than a fairly thin layer.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
REP
Updated:

@Wheezer


Having lived with/suffered through using an outhouse until I was 17 years old


I was lucky. The only times I had to use an outhouse was when we visited my dad's relatives in the delta areas of Arkansas. The few times we did that was summertime. It was cold and dark at night, drafty and smelly at all times, and watch out for the snakes and spiders.

Only problem I had with snakes was when one of my dad's friends took me with him to check his trotlines. A cottonmouth tried to climb into the boat with us.

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@REP

watch out for the snakes and spiders.


Bats too.

Replies:   REP
Frostfyre

@1111

Everyone has "what if..." fantasy. Personally, I love the do over genre. Two of my favorites are A Fresh Start by rlfj (God I wish that had been the real history), and Hindsight20/20 by SmokinDriver. The time travel story Redtail by aroslav is excellent as well.

REP

@Dominions Son

Do you have a belfry also.

Replies:   Dominions Son
docholladay

I think part of the popularity factor is because all of us have those moments in our past where a choice we made had major long time effects.

Some of those moments were huge others minor. But we all have them in one form or another.

I got to looking back and if just one factor had changed, I would not have been there for those kids I helped along the way afterwards. So in that respect I had to go through it otherwise some of them would have been lost forever.

Dominions Son

@REP

Do you have a belfry also.


No, I don't live in a church. I've thought about putting up a bat box though.

Replies:   REP
REP

@Dominions Son

Never heard of a bat box. Is it anything like a batting cage is baseball. If so is the object to hit the bats flying around in the box?

docholladay
Updated:

@REP


Never heard of a bat box. Is it anything like a batting cage is baseball. If so is the object to hit the bats flying around in the box?


I have heard of them before. So I did a quick search on google for an example. Here is a link which might help explain them better:

http://www.nwf.org/Garden-For-Wildlife/Cover/Build-a-Bat-House.aspx

edited to add: They tend to eat mosquitoes as a part of their diet among other insects. That tendency might make it well worth the trouble to build and install one or more.

Replies:   REP  Not_a_ID
REP

@docholladay

Thanks Doc, but DS and I are trying to one upsmanship each other with humor.

Dominions Son

@REP

Is it anything like a batting cage is baseball.


No, it's a storage device for Bat-gear like spare batarangs.

richardshagrin

I want to mention batman before anyone beats me to it.

Not_a_ID

@docholladay

edited to add: They tend to eat mosquitoes as a part of their diet among other insects. That tendency might make it well worth the trouble to build and install one or more.


Particularly in regions with those Mosquitoes that are masquerading as Boeing 747's. ;)

Not_a_ID

@Dominions Son

Another issue is how deep the waste in the pit is, even if the top few inches or couple of feet freeze, decomp, and therefore methane production can keep going in deeper layers.

Earth (as in dirt, gravel, sand and stone, not the planet) has a much higher thermal mass than the air, so does shit. So heat transferred to/from the earth will always exceed heat transfer to/from the air.

A few days of sub-zero temps isn't likely to cause a freeze in an outhouse pit, even if it did, it's not likely to freeze more than a fairly thin layer.


First item is "sub-zero" on which scale? If we're using metric, urine doesn't typically start to freeze until it gets to around -8C, or roughly +17F. And even when it reaches that point, things start to get weird. As the ice that forms on top of that pile of fecal material is going to be almost pure water(less anything else that was floating on the surface at the time of freezing).

Which then increases the salinity and other factors for the remaining liquid waste, which in turn further lowers the freezing point of the remaining liquid. Which means a septic tank that is holding a significant amount of liquid waste is likely to not fully freeze unless it gets insanely cold. BUT there certainly would be ice "in the tank" as it were.

However, that presumes the "holding area" actually gets that cold. Which plays into things already brought up. Depth and breadth of the pit, how much airflow(thermal transfer) is happening with the air outside of the "outhouse," and how much material is in the pit.

More material means more inertia towards cooling. Deeper pits means more interaction with the ambient temperature of the ground at those greater depths. This is particularly so if the outhouse "pit" is both dug considerably below the frostline and the material in said pit doesn't reside significantly above said frostline.

If the feces was getting up to anywhere near where the toilet seat was during winter, it is a safe bet that the waste level in that pit existed above the frostline before things started to freeze.

But we then also go back to airflow. Both within the outhouse itself, and within the pit. If the pit has a LOT of airflow going on, that means there is thermal transfer going on between the pit and the outside world. If enough airflow is happening, it wouldn't matter how far below the frostline the thing was dug. Because due to said (excessive) airflow "groundlevel" on that pit essentially is the pit itself, which means once it gets cold enough, it will freeze on the surface level at the least(which then goes back to the opening comment about the freezing point for certain, ah "liquid solutions" as it were.)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Not_a_ID

If the feces was getting up to anywhere near where the toilet seat was during winter, it is a safe bet that the waste level in that pit existed above the frostline before things started to freeze.


If the waste level is anywhere near that high, whether it freezes or not, you will be trying to dig a new pit in the middle of winter. Not exactly a fun proposition.

Replies:   Dominions Son
awnlee jawking

@Not_a_ID

I'd welcome bats which can eat 747s, especially now that the UK govt has given approval to a third runway at Thiefrow.

AJ

Dominions Son

@Dominions Son

First item is "sub-zero" on which scale? If we're using metric, urine doesn't typically start to freeze until it gets to around -8C, or roughly +17F. And even when it reaches that point,


To completely stop decomp and therefore methane production in the pit, it would have to be chilled if not frozen all the way to the bottom. As long as there is any significant amount of waste below the frost line, it doesn't matter how much air flow you get in the pit, that isn't happening without sustained temps in the -20 F range.

Ernest Bywater

This has got to be the mother of all thread diversion. Not only has it gone batty, but it's turned to shit.

sejintenej

@Not_a_ID

Particularly in regions with those Mosquitoes that are masquerading as Boeing 747's. ;)

Anything to get rid of them, even if it is batty. Them 747s are transporting anopheles mozzies to London where we now see cases of malaria. And they don't even pay for their fares

Dominions Son

@Ernest Bywater

Not only has it gone batty, but it's turned to shit.


You're full of it. :)

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Dominions Son

Them 747s are transporting anopheles mozzies to London where we now see cases of malaria.


I rather doubt that malaria is actually new to London. Though it may have been eradicated for a while. You can thank the ban on DDT for it's return.

Contrary to popular belief malaria is not and never has been a "tropical" disease.

In the early part of the 20th century, malaria was endemic in Alaska, and single worst malaria outbreak in recorded history happened in Siberia.

Replies:   awnlee jawking
awnlee jawking

@Dominions Son

I rather doubt that malaria is actually new to London.


Malaria is certainly no stranger to the UK but had been virtually eradicated by draining the marshlands where the mozzies lived and bred, but London is set in a giant river basin so there may not have been suitable breeding conditions.

However, at the behest of Eurocrats, we've actually been taking land out of cultivation and flooding it to create wetlands for migrating birds, thus providing breeding habitats for mozzies again.

Good thing there isn't a world food shortage ;)

AJ

Replies:   Not_a_ID  sejintenej
Not_a_ID
Updated:

@awnlee jawking


Good thing there isn't a world food shortage ;)


Well, as a percentage of population, the number people starving has been nearly halved in the past 30 years.

24% of the population in the developing world was starving in 1990. In 2012, that had been reduced to 14.5% of the population in developing nations were starving.

The World Food Programme currently claims the hunger rate in developing nations is at 12.9%.

We're beginning to run out of starving children to feel bad about.

Edit: The scary thing is then checking the hunger statistics in the U.S. which seems to be hovering around 1 in 7 to 1 in 8. If you're a child, it evidently shoots up to 1 in 4.

I guess if you're hungry, the U.S. isn't the place to be.

Replies:   Ernest Bywater
Ernest Bywater
Updated:

@Not_a_ID


Well, as a percentage of population, the number people starving has been nearly halved in the past 30 years.


looks good, but I'd rather see that in raw figures and the figures for those who died in those same areas during that period. It sounds too much like the number of peasants starving has reduced because most of them have died.

usual typo edit

Replies:   Not_a_ID
Not_a_ID

@Ernest Bywater

looks goo, but I'd rather see that in raw figures and the figures for those who died in those same areas during that period. It sounds too much like the number of peasants starving has reduced because most fo them have died.


A large part of that shift, and several related statistics, is tied into the modernization of China's Economy. India is likely a significant factor as well. They only have nearly 3 billion people between the two.

Replies:   1111
1111

@Not_a_ID

China, in particular, and India have moved millions above the poverty line into the middle class in the last two decades.
Apart from the usual suspects in Africa, which are improving also, there's still poverty and starvation in almost every society.
What is sad is that even in the most 'advanced' and 'developed' countries, there's a segment of society still suffering and forgotten. I recently read a local article about homelessness and poverty which opened my eyes to life beneath the veneer of modern societies

Chris aka 1111

Lugh

@Wheezer

Faulty memory is one of the other signs.


It is fair to say, however, that the process has evolved. I wondered if you referred to RAM or the gelatinous mass in my skull.

At least for some of us, it can be giggle-worthy to hear the preconceptions of what now labels itself the "digital generation", and are the only ones that understand the Internet. Some of us, however, worked on what was to become the Internet -- I guess I first sampled the ARPANET in 1970. As far as formal network development, I did X.25, DECnet, SNA, and OSI/ISDN, as well as lesser architectures, before I definitely moved to the TCP/IP side of the force in the mid-80s.

Yes, there would be some things to do over, like social things with one of my colleagues who was a brilliant network developer, but also a National Football League cheerleader. Other story material is much more do-again-but-keep-going; many of my stories draw from real experiences in the 70s and 80s.

Replies:   Grant
Grant

@Lugh

many of my stories draw from real experiences in the 70s and 80s.

Many years a go I found somewhere online a small blurb on writing.
I can't remember if it was the number 1 or 2 point; but is was along the lines of "Write about things you know about".
By all means change a few details to protect the guilty or innocent, and bend some things to fit the story. But as long as you write about things you understand or have good knowledge of you've got a much better chance of drawing people in to the story than just making stuff up that will most likely result in people giving up on the story.

Replies:   Not_a_ID
sejintenej

@awnlee jawking

Malaria is certainly no stranger to the UK but had been virtually eradicated by draining the marshlands where the mozzies lived and bred,

However, at the behest of Eurocrats, we've actually been taking land out of cultivation and flooding it to create wetlands for migrating birds, thus providing breeding habitats for mozzies again.

This line started with discussion about the spread of malaria. There is an argument that malaria is spread by the anopheles mosquito which cannot survive a decent English winter. Yes, other varieties can - they are like Heinz - umpteen varieties.
Malaria was extinct in the UK - the only place in western Europe last century where it was prevalent was Italy - no army ever reached Rome from the south until the Americans imported DDT and oiled the watercourses.

That is historical. Suddenly there were cases cropping up and they were all close to Heathrow airport and all in the later side of summer; the mosquitos had no wintered in the UK. If we can get malaria then we could have dengue fever and a lot more besides.

I can promise you that you do not want to get malaria and even less so the South East Asia variety

Replies:   Dominions Son
Not_a_ID

@Grant

But as long as you write about things you understand or have good knowledge of you've got a much better chance of drawing people in to the story than just making stuff up that will most likely result in people giving up on the story.


Oh definite yes. Readers will be able to pick up on when an author has moved well outside of their "comfortable depth" and can get vicious at that point.

Some writers hide it better(Rowling) than others(Roth--Divergent Series, Collins--Hunger Games; Neither of which survive the full run of the initial trilogy in decent shape), but if they keep pushing, the cracks start to really show.(In Rowling's case, that would be much of Pottermore, and later works after the main 7 book series. Which had minor issues of its own.)

Of course, even with their respective issues, there will be no shortage of people who either completely miss the problems, or opt to "suspend disbelief"/ignore the problems when they surface. But it's much easier to make that choice when you're several books into a series rather than in the first 50 pages.

Dominions Son

@sejintenej

malaria is spread by the anopheles mosquito which cannot survive a decent English winter.


Adults and larva might not be able to, but experiences in Alaska and Siberia prove that unhatched anopheles mosquito eggs can survive decades, even centuries in permafrost. And all they need is a few warm wet days to explode into an active population.

richardshagrin

@Ernest Bywater

This has got to be the mother of all thread diversion. Not only has it gone batty, but it's turned to shit.


Well, the thread was about doing things over. Urination and defecation is certainly repetitive.

OregonDucks

Is Second Chance by Number 7 worth reading?

Replies:   Grant
Grant

@OregonDucks

Is Second Chance by Number 7 worth reading?

Maybe?

I think I read it up to about book 7, and while it was OK, it was becoming more of the same with no end in sight which is why I didn't bother continuing on.

Replies:   OregonDucks
OregonDucks

@Grant

what is the story about anyway I understand that when he dies he takes over another body that is dyeing, but what is the plot the end game

Replies:   Wheezer  sejintenej
Wheezer

@OregonDucks

what is the story about anyway I understand that when he dies he takes over another body that is dyeing, but what is the plot the end game


There does not appear to be one, other than the author trying to see how many different ways he can retell the same story.

Replies:   Capt Zapp
Capt Zapp

@Wheezer

There does not appear to be one...


He did come up with an ending (Book 11) but returned with Book 12 which actually went in a bit of a different direction by sending him back to his younger self. I am still enjoying the story now that he has gotten away from Carl being a 'special forces/super spy/richer-than-midas' superman.

sejintenej

@OregonDucks

@Grant
what is the story about anyway I understand that when he dies he takes over another body that is dyeing, but what is the plot the end game

Each group of chapters is about him helping (or trying to help) someone. Often there is little link between groups except for the lawyer, his daughter and the doctor but because the story jumps in time even this gets warped - in the first story the male lawyer has retired, in the latest he is a young man.

BlinkReader

One of good reasons why we like do-over stories are politicians.

One very good quote I saw said:
"If a plague wiped out only dishonest politicians, all world capitols would be a ghost towns."

Replies:   Capt Zapp
Capt Zapp

@BlinkReader

"If a plague wiped out only dishonest politicians, all world capitols would be a ghost towns."


Isn't there a story on here where all of the politicians die off?

Rambulator

NanoVirus Universe by cmsix.

Replies:   Jim S  BlinkReader
Jim S

@Rambulator

NanoVirus Universe by cmsix.


If only life could imitate art.....

BlinkReader

@Rambulator

NanoVirus Universe by cmsix.


Good ole cmsix :)

A toast for cmsix - wherever he is now!

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@BlinkReader

A toast for cmsix - wherever he is now!


Last I heard he was in a nursing home with major health problems. Pity I enjoy his stories even though most will probably always have that dreaded incomplete status. They still set my imagination roaming.

BlinkReader

...even though most will probably always have that dreaded incomplete status...


Funny - because I found some here unfinished stories have been marked as finished on asstr... (http://www.asstr.org/~cmsix/)

Replies:   docholladay
docholladay

@BlinkReader

Funny - because I found some here unfinished stories have been marked as finished on asstr... (http://www.asstr.org/~cmsix/)


That is because he updated here more often. He also had a tendency to change and/or add to the story after closing it. This caused the dreaded "Incomplete" or "Unfinished" status for a lot of his stories. Most writers when they get new material for a story will write a sequel instead of redoing the original story. The sequel portions would have been incomplete, but the originals would have been finished. Also in one story he was trying to force a merger with the "Nanovirus" story. The story was refusing to merge like he wanted. I finally realized the problem and tried to point it out, but as anyone who has interacted with cmsix can tell you. He is STUBBORN and does just what he wants to regardless. Nice to communicate with since it led to many ongoing debates between us. Where we tended to agree to disagree. It is why I have both pages bookmarked even if he probably won't be updating again unless we get lucky.

Replies:   BlinkReader
BlinkReader

@docholladay

Thank you for this info.

It gives me something more to think about when I'm rereading his stories for umpteen time :)

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