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Feedback appreciated please: Hidden Desires Unleashed.

Panthers70
Updated:

I'd appreciate some feedback for the first story have submitted to this website, Hidden Desires Unleashed.

As I write this there have been 24 votes for the story and they range right through from 1 to 10. I would like to try and improve as a writer but so far there have been no comments or feedback so I've no idea what I've done wrong and what I've done right.

For instance, if you gave it low marks was it because you didn't like the genre or was it because it was poorly written? For those who gave it high marks, what did you like about it and do you think it's worth writing a follow-up chapter?

Thanks.

Replies:   tendertouch
BlacKnight

I didn't vote on it, because I didn't read past the codes. "Rape" and "non-consensual" are immediate "skip it" flags, unless it's an author whom I really trust. For example, I didn't skip Dance of a Lifetime because of the rape code, because I trusted Don Lockwood to handle it in a reasonable manner - which he did.

"Interracial", especially in combination with NC codes, is also a warning flag that often signifies racist bullshit. Not always - sometimes it's just a perfectly nice story about people who happen to have different skin tones - so it's not an immediate "skip it", but on stories that feel the need to tag it, it's often enough "white girl raped by black bulls" shit that it makes me wary, and your description led me to believe that wariness was justified.

So, basically, I didn't read your story because the codes and description suggested that doing so would only serve to make me disgusted and angry at you for writing it, and I suspect your low score is because people who voted on it shared that opinion.

Panthers70
Updated:

@BlacKnight

Thank you for your reply and yes I fully understand that the genres of the story are not to everyone's taste. I'm glad the codes put you off reading something you obviously wouldn't have enjoyed.

What I don't understand is is why, despite the codes and the description, people still read a story they're not going to like and then give it a low mark mark because they don't like it! Why just not bother reading it in the first place like you did?

Replies:   Dominions Son
Dominions Son

@Panthers70


What I don't understand is is why, despite the codes and the description, people still read a story they're not going to like and then give it a low mark mark because they don't like it! Why just not bother reading it in the first place like you did?


1. Some readers(idiots) will see codes for personal squicks and think it will get mentioned in passing as something that happened off state and not be presented in explicit detail.

2. Some will see codes for things that they find offensive (not just gross) and read the story just to down vote it.

Switch Blayde

@BlacKnight

"Interracial", especially in combination with NC codes, is also a warning flag that often signifies racist bullshit.


I guess my WIP is going to bomb. It will have codes like slave, interracial (WM/BF), non-consent, etc. It makes the racists the asshole bad guys. So those looking for the typical story with those codes will hate it. Those who might cheer will avoid it. It's a lose-lose for me. Oh well.

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@Switch Blayde

Do you really have all the racist shit on-screen? Sorry, but if that's the case, you're probably right, the story will bomb. I for one wouldn't like to read through it, even if the good guys win in the end.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@robberhands

Do you really have all the racist shit on-screen?


Yes, it justifies the hero murdering them.

Replies:   sunkuwan  robberhands
sunkuwan

@Switch Blayde

Then use a revenge tag or imply otherwise that it is about righting wrongs.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
robberhands

@Switch Blayde

Yes, it justifies the hero murdering them.

Just as the press needs to print stealthily shot nude pictures on the first site to express their indignation?

I don't intent to accuse you of anything but your justification is very feeble at best. You don't need scenes of rape and torture on-screen to convey it happened.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@sunkuwan

Then use a revenge tag or imply otherwise that it is about righting wrongs.


It's not revenge based on the SOL definition. Vigilante would be closer, not that there's a vigilante tag.

In fact, I just wrote the following not 15 minutes ago:

"I wish I could kill him."

"Trust me," Steele said, "you don't want to. Once you kill someone you're never the same.


The one who said she wanted to kill him would do it out of revenge. Steele is doing it for justice.

Switch Blayde

@robberhands

You don't need scenes of rape and torture on-screen to convey it happened.


You do if you want to get a certain emotion from the reader. Remember the scene in "A Time to Kill" where the little black girl was raped (I think it was when the lawyer was describing it to the jury)? Remember the graphic scenes in "Amistad?" They were very powerful.

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@Switch Blayde

They were very powerful.

Of course they are powerful but I still think they are not needed. I'd never write such scenes simply out of fear to attract the wrong readership. You know you will.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde
Updated:

@robberhands


to attract the wrong readership. You know you will.


Except those readers will hate the way it depicts the racists. That's why I said it's a no-win for me.

But I don't care. I don't tiptoe around issues readers may not like. I do what's best for the story.

I believe those scenes were needed in those movies to have the impact they did. Maybe it goes to "show don't tell."

Don't you think the horrific scenes in "Schindler's List" were needed? Watching an innocent person get their brains blown out to show how despicable the Nazis were. Most of my wife's family died in concentration camps. She can't watch those scenes. I still wouldn't remove them.

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@Switch Blayde

Don't you think the horrific scenes in "Schindler's List" were needed? Watching an innocent person get their brains blown out to show how despicable the Nazis were.

It's not about brutal scenes in general, it's about rape and racist motivated rape at that. You want to convey horror and disgust but you will entertain those who enjoy such scenes. Are you sure you can predict what kind of audience will enjoy your story more?

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde
Updated:

@robberhands


Are you sure you can predict what kind of audience will enjoy your story more?


Can any of us?

Maybe the Jew-hating racists enjoyed "Schindler's List" and didn't watch the ending. Who knows?

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@Switch Blayde

Can any of us?

Probably not. Well, best of luck with your story.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde
Updated:

@robberhands


best of luck


Thanks.

The following is what I have [so far] as a warning (using the "notice") on the story's index page.


Characters in this story degrade and abuse African Americans, including using the N-word. The author does not condone it, but it's needed for the plot and to make the characters despicable. It's not intended to offend anyone or any group of people in real life, and that includes white Southerners who are not the way the story depicts. This is fiction.


ETA: Actually, I think I only have one scene where a woman is forced to have sex against her will. All the others is implied. The other explicit sex is consensual. This might be the time to use the "consensual" story code to show it's not all non-consent.

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@Switch Blayde

Characters in this story degrade and abuse African Americans, including using the N-word.

I find it amusing to mention the use of the N-word after you wrote about abasement and abuse. But I guess it's just my strange sense of humor, I'm certain the use of the N-word always needs a special notification.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@robberhands

I'm certain the use of the N-word always needs a special notification.


It does in the U.S.

Panthers70

I'm finding the story codes are a bit of a grey area. Should they be used to describe each individual sex scene or the story as a whole?

For instance, using the SOL definitions below for levels of consent ...

Consensual
All parties are consenting to the act

Reluctant
Start as non-consentual and then the non consenting party participates willingly

NonConsensual
At least one of the parties is not participating willfully

Rape
Stories with violent rape

... my story as a whole should probably be classified as reluctant. However, if you were looking at the's individual sex scenes that would change to nonconsensual or rape, consensual (x3).

Also, what do people consider the difference is between nonconsensual and rape?

Switch Blayde
Updated:

@Panthers70


what do people consider the difference is between nonconsensual and rape?


This has come up with my readers more often than I would like. Some think non-consent = rape. Legally it does. But consensual sex with a minor is also rape — legally.

In SOL terminology, rape is a violent, knock-down rape. Non-consent is simply one party not willing, which could be blackmail, coercion, mind control, etc. If I tag a story as non-consent, it simply means that. If it's blackmail, I'll add that code as well.

I always thought consensual was a dumb code to have. After all, if it's not non-consent it's consensual. But as I stated above, I think I'll use the consensual tag in my new story because most of it is consensual yet the other story codes would imply otherwise.

tendertouch

@Panthers70

I didn't vote for it because I didn't read past the synopsis. I can deal with rape in a story as long as the rapist definitely gets it in the end (justice, not necessarily revenge). I've known several women who have suffered rapes, though, so any story that even implies that the rapist is going to get away with it never gets another look.

I appreciate that you chose to give a description that would put me off, and if it's accurate your score is better off for having done so.

Switch Blayde

@Panthers70

Should they be used to describe each individual sex scene or the story as a whole?


This is another grey area. There's oral sex in my current story but I won't include the "oral" tag. Why? It's a decision I need to make. It happens once in the story so why bother including it?

robberhands

@Panthers70

Also, what do people consider the difference is between nonconsensual and rape?

Violence.

You code as warning and there is no average in coding the entire story. So you should definitely apply the 'rape' tag if it happens on-screen in your story. If you tagged for rape, you won't need the 'non-consensual' warning anymore.

Replies:   Switch Blayde
Switch Blayde

@robberhands

If you tagged for rape, you won't need the 'non-consensual' warning


Not necessarily true. Someone might search on non-consent. If you don't have that code you don't get found.

Replies:   robberhands
robberhands

@Switch Blayde

Not necessarily true. Someone might search on non-consent. If you don't have that code you don't get found.

Damn, I forgot the advertisement factor for the sensible 'non-consent' connoisseur - my apologies.

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